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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
I'll repeat: February 2013 looks like the best month ever to lease a 5 series. The extra 1500 bucks lowers the payment by 40 dollars and gets a base 528 into the high 300's which is practically Honda Accord territory. A 535i can be had for under 500 bucks.

It's cheaper to lease a 5 series today than 10 or even 20 years ago. You don't even need to factor for inflation. It's just cheaper, even in constant dollars and even though the price of a 5 has gone up so substantially.

BMW really seems more interested in leasing you a car than selling you a car. It really does seem that way. It's a fascinating dynamic.

Is there anyway to obtain sales vs. lease data for specific models within a brand? I'd be curious to see what percentage of 5 series are leased today and then compare the number to 10 years ago.
The $1,500 Lease/APR Credit and $750 Loyalty Cash are already factored into the $439 lease payment. There is no lowering by $40 due to the $1,500. BTW, the golden rule of leasing is not to put a penny down. Your $399 payment requires an eight grand down payment, which can be a pretty risky move on a lease. BTW, if you put that eight grand down on a Honda Accord, the lease payment is under a hundred bucks.
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  #27  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:04 PM
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Generally, Jan or Feb are not good months to lease or buy.
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  #28  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
The $1,500 Lease/APR Credit and $750 Loyalty Cash are already factored into the $439 lease payment. There is no lowering by $40 due to the $1,500. BTW, the golden rule of leasing is not to put a penny down. Your $399 payment requires an eight grand down payment, which can be a pretty risky move on a lease. BTW, if you put that eight grand down on a Honda Accord, the lease payment is under a hundred bucks.
+1

he is a bit exaggerated on how "good" the deals are this month. Adding the $3k cap cost reduction back into the payment to get a zero-down lease, the special this month on the 528 is a little over $500 which is good but not a screaming deal by any means.
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  #29  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:34 PM
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  #30  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
Um, the NEW advertised payment for a well equipped 528i is $439. Take out the options and the payment is in the 3's.

So the payment is already "that low". You're the only one who made a silly comment here lol
.
.
.
That's still with over $4K-$5++K drive off though. Also usually those numbers are quoted on what at least "we" (who care about various options) would consider relatively stripper cars.

Point taken on that it's still a technically insane deal on a 5 Series. Though as stated, you'd need like $8K down to get it into the $3's.
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  #31  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BickUW89 View Post
My experience with two previous leases on BMWs is that the residual isn't necessarily the price you'll pay to own the car if you choose to buy it at the end of the lease. As a result, you can save some serious $$ by leasing then buying.

Specific example: I did a 3 year lease on my 2008 550i, with a negotiated residual value of $43,500. When my lease was up, my dealer sold the car to me for $36,000 - a stomping $7,500 savings.
Great idea! Forgot about that. If there's a will there's a way I guess.
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  #32  
Old 02-09-2013, 05:21 PM
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[QUOTE=K-A;7370848]That's still with over $4K-$5++K drive off though. Also usually those numbers are quoted on what at least "we" (who care about various options) would consider relatively stripper cars.


I haven't seen any strippers driving 5ers! lol
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  #33  
Old 02-09-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
The $1,500 Lease/APR Credit and $750 Loyalty Cash are already factored into the $439 lease payment. There is no lowering by $40 due to the $1,500. BTW, the golden rule of leasing is not to put a penny down. Your $399 payment requires an eight grand down payment, which can be a pretty risky move on a lease. BTW, if you put that eight grand down on a Honda Accord, the lease payment is under a hundred bucks.
One more time: the $439 advertised lease payment is for a car with ~$4,000 of options. Knock an option or 2 off, and you're in the high 300's. I was clear about this; perhaps you missed it?

Or perhaps you just want to be contrary and disagree with me. I'm cool with that even though it's not going to get you anywhere.
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  #34  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:01 PM
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[QUOTE=Brooks Was Here;7371055]
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
That's still with over $4K-$5++K drive off though. Also usually those numbers are quoted on what at least "we" (who care about various options) would consider relatively stripper cars.


I haven't seen any strippers driving 5ers! lol
My friend drives a no option 528i , so not only have I seen them, I've been in one.

Is calling a car a "stripper" supposed to be pejorative?

Because he also has a Dodge Viper, a Lamborghini Countach and the highest point 1963 Corvette in the world, in case you were thinking he might be a piker.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-09-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BickUW89 View Post
My experience with two previous leases on BMWs is that the residual isn't necessarily the price you'll pay to own the car if you choose to buy it at the end of the lease. As a result, you can save some serious $$ by leasing then buying.

Specific example: I did a 3 year lease on my 2008 550i, with a negotiated residual value of $43,500. When my lease was up, my dealer sold the car to me for $36,000 - a stomping $7,500 savings.
Yes. I've done the same.

BMW used to be very strict about not allowing leasees to directly negotiate lower purchase prices on returning leases but I found out a few ago that this policy had quietly changed. I purchased my own lease return for 20% under residual.
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  #36  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
Yes. I've done the same.

BMW used to be very strict about not allowing leasees to directly negotiate lower purchase prices on returning leases but I found out a few ago that this policy had quietly changed. I purchased my own lease return for 20% under residual.
From negotiating the residual or turning it into the dealer with the intent to immediately buy it back from them?
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  #37  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
One more time: the $439 advertised lease payment is for a car with ~$4,000 of options. Knock an option or 2 off, and you're in the high 300's. I was clear about this; perhaps you missed it?

Or perhaps you just want to be contrary and disagree with me. I'm cool with that even though it's not going to get you anywhere.
I think what folks are saying is to take the cash down out of the equation. Cash down is a no/no on leases. I can easily get to a $200 a month lease payment with a $15K cash down
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  #38  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
How would it be 300 payment?
Can anyone do some calculation?
The fast way to do it in Excel is to use the PMT function - you need the following

Monthly interest rate
Number of months
Current Value (Current Purchase Price - net of down payments)
Future Value (Residual Value)

Make sure you enter the Future value as a negative.
You can use the annual interest rate divided by 12 to get to monthly interest rate.
Down payments lower monthly payments, but money is out the door.
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  #39  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Ah. What do I know, I guess.... I got a 74% residual on a 24 month Lease.

Only thing that sucks is, two years in, I might not have had enough of this car a 74% buyout is quite insane.
K-A, you have gotten a better deal than this months' rates. Yours residual is 74% in addition to Holiday Credits & $750 BMW Loyalty. There's no way February's deal is better than yours.
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  #40  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wesleyan92 View Post
I think what folks are saying is to take the cash down out of the equation. Cash down is a no/no on leases. I can easily get to a $200 a month lease payment with a $15K cash down
They might be saying it but I never did. I was crystal clear that I'm using BMW's advertised programs as the benchmark. This keeps it apples to apples.

Those folks are trying to turn apples into oranges. They seem inclined to patronize me with lectures about cap cost reduction and golden rules of leasings blah blah blah. None of blah blah blah changes the truth of the matter about anything I wrote. :-)
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  #41  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
One more time: the $439 advertised lease payment is for a car with ~$4,000 of options. Knock an option or 2 off, and you're in the high 300's. I was clear about this; perhaps you missed it?

Or perhaps you just want to be contrary and disagree with me. I'm cool with that even though it's not going to get you anywhere.
You have mentioned it, but in your last post you claimed the $1,500 would get you below $400/month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
The extra 1500 bucks lowers the payment by 40 dollars
So if it's the base 528i and your removing $4k in options, the monthly payment will drop by more than $100 ($4000/36). Unfortunately, there is only one option listed in the offer which is $2,600, but that will still get you below $400/mo. If you want to put down another $7,200 then the payment will drop below $200/month. If you keep adding a few more grand your monthly payments will reach $0. Is $0/mo the best BMW lease ever? Well, that's called a single payment lease and should only be considered when we climb back towards double digit interest rates.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue with you, but I do try to make people aware of potentially misleading information by sharing the bigger picture. Putting $7-8k down is a bad idea, unless of course you are using it for MSDs.

If you are cool with it, then realize there have been incredible lease deals over the years. This one, although pretty good at the moment, doesn't strike me as the best ever. Sure the residual is up, but the money factor is also up and the incentvies have also been higher. I've seen the get you in the door $399 deals before. On the otherhand, just two months ago there was a 2yr 535 lease that several members got that struck me as a better deal overall. Good luck in your purchase.
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  #42  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
One more time: the $439 advertised lease payment is for a car with ~$4,000 of options. Knock an option or 2 off, and you're in the high 300's. I was clear about this; perhaps you missed it?

Or perhaps you just want to be contrary and disagree with me. I'm cool with that even though it's not going to get you anywhere.
That is insanely cheap. Automakers must hate the US market if that's what you have to do to compete. That price represents about a 72% residual value on 36 months at 3.19% for a 50,000 base price, (before taxes) assuming no down payments... can that be?
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  #43  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post


You have mentioned it, but in your last post you claimed the $1,500 would get you below $400/month.



So if it's the base 528i and your removing $4k in options, the monthly payment will drop by more than $100 ($4000/36). Unfortunately, there is only one option listed in the offer which is $2,600, but that will still get you below $400/mo. If you want to put down another $7,200 then the payment will drop below $200/month. If you keep adding a few more grand your monthly payments will reach $0. Is $0/mo the best BMW lease ever? Well, that's called a single payment lease and should only be considered when we climb back towards double digit interest rates.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue with you, but I do try to make people aware of potentially misleading information by sharing the bigger picture. Putting $7-8k down is a bad idea, unless of course you are using it for MSDs.

If you are cool with it, then realize there have been incredible lease deals over the years. This one, although pretty good at the moment, doesn't strike me as the best ever. Sure the residual is up, but the money factor is also up and the incentvies have also been higher. I've seen the get you in the door $399 deals before. On the otherhand, just two months ago there was a 2yr 535 lease that several members got that struck me as a better deal overall. Good luck in your purchase.
Fair enough.

I posted in another thread that I never hunt for cars because I'm not a good hunter. I sit back and let the best deals come to me. It might be lazy but I find it effective.

My point in sharing this little anecdote with you is that I'm always aware of current BMW leasing programs because I wait for them to come to me. I've been keeping track of BMW since I shook hands with Porsche 15 years ago. I honestly believe right now are the best lease values I've ever seen for BMW.
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  #44  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:38 PM
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If you add up the Down Payment & Acquisition fee ($3,725) & spread it over 36 payments. The real monthly payment = $103.47 + whatever advertised monthly payment.

The monthly payment shall be fairly close to markl53's calculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Ok, not sure how that deal is calculated. I just used my formula from above and here's what I got:

2013 528i, with Premium and Cold packages, Navigation (does that constitute "well equipped"?)

MSRP - $54395
Negotiated price (Assumed invoice - $1500) - $48500
Depreciation Factor- .63
Acquisition Fee - 550
Tax - 2425
TItle/Tags - 150
Capital Cost = $51626
Money Factor = .00125 (3%)
Term = 36 mos

Depreciation Fee = $482.14
Finance Fee = $107.37
Total monthly cost = $589.51

For a "stripped" 528i, with only metallic paint and leather seats:

MSRP - $50895
Negotiated price (Assumed invoice - $1500) - $45370
Depreciation Factor- .63
Acquisition Fee - 550
Tax - 2270
TItle/Tags - 150
Capital Cost = $48340
Money Factor = .00125 (3%)
Term = 36 mos

Depreciation Fee = $452.10
Finance Fee = $100.50
Total monthly cost = $552.61

EDIT: Just saw the deal on bmwusa.com. 30K miles over 36 months, is a low mileage deal, 10K miles /year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
From BMWUSA:

BMW 528i Sedan Special Offers

Well equipped including features such as Premium Package (Leather, Comfort Access, Satellite Radio, Power Tailgate), Automatic Transmission, iPod/USB adapter, Xenon headlights and Destination charges.


$439*/month for 36 months. $1,500 Lease/APR Credit and $750 Loyalty Cash included in payment.


Vehicle Registered outside N.Y.
$439 First months payment
$3,000 Down payment
$0 Security Deposit
$725 Acquisition fee
$4,164 Cash due at signing

Excludes tax, title, license and registration fees.

The upfront costs are $7-8k assuming one qualifies for the loyalty cash.

Mark's numbers are closer to how a typical lease buyer structures the lease. The residual will drop to .60 for a 15k/yr lease which will also increase the monthly payment by about $50/mo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
One more time: the $439 advertised lease payment is for a car with ~$4,000 of options. Knock an option or 2 off, and you're in the high 300's. I was clear about this; perhaps you missed it?

Or perhaps you just want to be contrary and disagree with me. I'm cool with that even though it's not going to get you anywhere.
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  #45  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
That is insanely cheap. Automakers must hate the US market if that's what you have to do to compete. That price represents about a 72% residual value on 36 months at 3.19% for a 50,000 base price, (before taxes).
Peter, I've no idea who started all this high residual for February. The 36 month residual is 60% for F10 assuming 15k miles/ year.
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  #46  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
That is insanely cheap. Automakers must hate the US market if that's what you have to do to compete. That price represents about a 72% residual value on 36 months at 3.19% for a 50,000 base price, (before taxes).
Lol the Germans do in fact hate the US market. If there weren't so many wealthy people here I'm pretty convinced that the Germans would never have set-up any dealer infrastructure in the United States.

Look what CBS news did to Audi.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-09-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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  #47  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
K-A, you have gotten a better deal than this months' rates. Yours residual is 74% in addition to Holiday Credits & $750 BMW Loyalty. There's no way February's deal is better than yours.
Indeed, sir. I was being sarcastic.
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  #48  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Peter, I've no idea who started all this high residual for February. The 36 month residual is 60% for F10 assuming 15k miles/ year.
One more time: the BMW advertised program is for 10,000 miles.


Who started it? BMW, NA!
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  #49  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
One more time: the BMW advertised program is for 10,000 miles.


Who started it? BMW, NA!
The 36 months residual for F10 is 63% based on 10k miles/year.
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  #50  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
From negotiating the residual or turning it into the dealer with the intent to immediately buy it back from them?
In the old days, BMW, NA took the car back all the time. If you as a leasee wanted to buy the car, you would have to hunt it down through a wholesaler or wherever they dumped their cars.
I'm guessing the CPO program is when the policy changed? That's just a guess .
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