335i oil change.. every 25,000 km!!!

so now that I'm at 2000 mi, is there or is there not a good reason to go and do an early oil change, I do not mind paying for it of course.

isn't there something to the fact that when the engine is new there are small pieces of metal and debris that are floating around in there. I am certainly no mechanic, I only read and listen to this stuff but really wonder what the right thing to do is.

bottom line, is it worth it to have an early oil change? I will probably end up going in for one in the next week or two.

Originally Posted by Heat00

so now that I'm at 2000 mi, is there or is there not a good reason to go and do an early oil change, I do not mind paying for it of course.

isn't there something to the fact that when the engine is new there are small pieces of metal and debris that are floating around in there. I am certainly no mechanic, I only read and listen to this stuff but really wonder what the right thing to do is.

bottom line, is it worth it to have an early oil change? I will probably end up going in for one in the next week or two.

I wouldn't bother. It's a BMW, not a 1955 Chevy. (And I'm very OC about maintenenance.) If the BMW factory oil has additives to help the piston rings "bed in" that would be another reason to wait.

The Blackstone oil analsis is a good idea. I've done 2 so far on my Volvo (turbocharged, but not DI).

I read a comment or two over at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ that based on oil analysis, 7,500 miles seems to be a good interval for changing the oil on a naturally aspirated (not turbocharged) BMW inline 6.

so what about on a turbocharged BMW inline 6? Should it be sooner than 7,500?

Hi,

Does the oil status of the 335i base it on mileage, or driving conditions..? Turbo charged engines get hotter and from owning other turbo charged vehicles, the oil begins to break down due to the extreme temperatures. Oil is fed through the blazing hot turbine center housing to lubricate bearings and or bushings, which can help break down the oil...

What's the hottest oil temperature that you've seen during hard driving conditions?

Best wishes,
Mark

Just to present a slightly different viewpoint: There is some data that indicates the oil can go on extended oil change intervals (OCIs) quite well - http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133. I have been told by a practicing lubricants engineer at Exxon/Mobil (he formerly worked on some lube developments for BMW when he was at Castrol - - specifically, TWS 10w60) that BMW uses two independent labs that do extended field testing in BMWs of all the lubes BMW use. So, I don't think the observation that its the bean counters at BMW that determine OCIs is quite accurate. I agree that doing oil change analyses (OCAs) can be helpful, particularly in determining the condition of the oil (not so much for wear rates), but even that can be a bit tricky. Doing a UOA at 1000 mi may be way premature. Not all UOA test results are linear. In other words, seeing a 200 degree drop in flash point at 1000 mi doesn't necessarily mean the flash point will continue to drop 200 degrees every additional 1000 mi. The same for % fuel dilution. The same lubricants engineer claims he has seen data that indicates shortening the Mfrs recommended OCI can negatively affect deposits (that ought to get the attention of N54 owners). Seems the lighter factions in the oil volatilize early on and lay down some deposits, then the oil stabilizes and remains constant. Doing more frequent oil changes then has the effect of feeding the deposits. I might add that there are no hard and fast standards for some things like max permissible % fuel dilution (most UOA labs use 2% as max - - but that's the lab's warning point). The lube engineer claims he has seen quite high gasoline fuel dilution without any apparent affect on engine durability.

Some of us seem to have the idea that if BMW says the factory fill in the M3 should be changed at 1200 mi, then its a good idea to do the same in a 335i, even if BMW doesn't require that for the 335i (maybe its those bean counters again that want to let it slide). Who knows what the factory fill is in an M3? May not be service-fill TWS at all. May be an oil intended to wear in a way that it should be changed at 1200 mi. And who knows what the factory fill in the 335i is? There is a lube mfr in Germany called FUCHS who advertises itself as "the factory fill specialist". I know a US distributor who claims that all the cars that come out of Germany come out with FUCHS oils in their crankcase, each made to mfr specs. The $64,000 question is does the factory fill have something in it that the service fill doesn't. Here is what the EXXON/Mobil lubricants engineer has to say about premature changing of factory fills (this is an excerpt from an article he wrote on UOAs on the BITOG oil forum): "Many modern engines have unique lubricants as their Factory fill and in some cases a special specification lubricant many be needed for the first 10k miles or so. This is for specific “bedding in” reasons and often depends on the engine’s design and certainly on its “wear face” metallurgy! People that chose to ignore the Manufacturer’s advice concerning the first oil change period and the lubricant to be used then are IMO quite foolhardy – especially if they intend to keep their vehicle for many years."

I don't think folks who change their oil early are doing irreparable harm to their engine - - if that were the case BMW would probably explicitly warn against it. But there is a legitimate and professional point of view that says shortening the mfrs OCIs is unnecessary, and may even be counterproductive.

Thanks! I see you're from Ramona, CA... I'm from San Diego... But I'm currently in the Midwest.. Do you know of a good dyno facility around there?

I think I'll go with the factory recommended oil change.. But If for some reason I feel like changing the oil around 7.5k and I have time, I'll do it.

Should we always use Factory recommended viscosity?

Take care, Mark

Originally Posted by m6pwr

Just to present a slightly different viewpoint: There is some data that indicates the oil can go on extended oil change intervals (OCIs) quite well - http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133. I have been told by a practicing lubricants engineer at Exxon/Mobil (he formerly worked on some lube developments for BMW when he was at Castrol - - specifically, TWS 10w60) that BMW uses two independent labs that do extended field testing in BMWs of all the lubes BMW use. So, I don't think the observation that its the bean counters at BMW that determine OCIs is quite accurate. I agree that doing oil change analyses (OCAs) can be helpful, particularly in determining the condition of the oil (not so much for wear rates), but even that can be a bit tricky. Doing a UOA at 1000 mi may be way premature. Not all UOA test results are linear. In other words, seeing a 200 degree drop in flash point at 1000 mi doesn't necessarily mean the flash point will continue to drop 200 degrees every additional 1000 mi. The same for % fuel dilution. The same lubricants engineer claims he has seen data that indicates shortening the Mfrs recommended OCI can negatively affect deposits (that ought to get the attention of N54 owners). Seems the lighter factions in the oil volatilize early on and lay down some deposits, then the oil stabilizes and remains constant. Doing more frequent oil changes then has the effect of feeding the deposits. I might add that there are no hard and fast standards for some things like max permissible % fuel dilution (most UOA labs use 2% as max - - but that's the lab's warning point). The lube engineer claims he has seen quite high gasoline fuel dilution without any apparent affect on engine durability.

Some of us seem to have the idea that if BMW says the factory fill in the M3 should be changed at 1200 mi, then its a good idea to do the same in a 335i, even if BMW doesn't require that for the 335i (maybe its those bean counters again that want to let it slide). Who knows what the factory fill is in an M3? May not be service-fill TWS at all. May be an oil intended to wear in a way that it should be changed at 1200 mi. And who knows what the factory fill in the 335i is? There is a lube mfr in Germany called FUCHS who advertises itself as "the factory fill specialist". I know a US distributor who claims that all the cars that come out of Germany come out with FUCHS oils in their crankcase, each made to mfr specs. The $64,000 question is does the factory fill have something in it that the service fill doesn't. Here is what the EXXON/Mobil lubricants engineer has to say about premature changing of factory fills (this is an excerpt from an article he wrote on UOAs on the BITOG oil forum): "Many modern engines have unique lubricants as their Factory fill and in some cases a special specification lubricant many be needed for the first 10k miles or so. This is for specific “bedding in” reasons and often depends on the engine’s design and certainly on its “wear face” metallurgy! People that chose to ignore the Manufacturer’s advice concerning the first oil change period and the lubricant to be used then are IMO quite foolhardy – especially if they intend to keep their vehicle for many years."

I don't think folks who change their oil early are doing irreparable harm to their engine - - if that were the case BMW would probably explicitly warn against it. But there is a legitimate and professional point of view that says shortening the mfrs OCIs is unnecessary, and may even be counterproductive.

Another zombie thread! Anyway ...

Originally Posted by markangelo

Does the oil status of the 335i base it on mileage, or driving conditions..?

It's based upon the amount of gasoline fed through the engine. If you get lousy mileage (lots of stop & go, or lots of hard driving), it calls to change it sooner. If you do lots of high mileage highway cruising, it calls for it later.

I change mine every 7500. Based on my driving style, the CBS system only calls for it every 20,000 miles or so.

Originally Posted by markangelo

What's the hottest oil temperature that you've seen during hard driving conditions?

250 degrees climbing Mt. Washington behind DSXMachina. 220 to 240 otherwise, based on time of year and ambient temperature.

Originally Posted by Zooks527

Another zombie thread! Anyway ...




It's based upon the amount of gasoline fed through the engine. If you get lousy mileage (lots of stop & go, or lots of hard driving), it calls to change it sooner. If you do lots of high mileage highway cruising, it calls for it later.

I change mine every 7500. Based on my driving style, the CBS system only calls for it every 20,000 miles or so.




250 degrees climbing Mt. Washington behind DSXMachina. 220 to 240 otherwise, based on time of year and ambient temperature.

The ecu does have an algorithm based on gas/throttle, etc but the newer BMWs (and other makes as well) have a dielectric oil condition monitor (OCM) that is quite sophisticated. I can't find the link for the moment, but these OCMs operate on the principle that the conductivity of the oil changes as certain elements in the oil change. BMW's Bosche-made OCM even has a sound transducer that bounces sound waves off the oil to measure viscosity! So the CBS computer does measure actual oil condition to an extent. Just one more nail in the coffin of the theory that BMW's maintenance specs are designed by bean counters.

I wouldn't be afraid of high oil temps in the N54 - - within reason. 250 degrees F is optimum. You have more to be concerned about with low oil temps. I think BMW deliberately designed the N54 to run with high oil temps (higher than what many of us "old timers" are used to anyway) in order to keep fuel dilution in check.

Whatever oil you run in the BMW be sure it meets the BMW LL01 approval spec. BMW says you should use 0w30, 5w30, 0w40, or 5w40 viscosity oil. I wouldn't depart from that.

Originally Posted by markangelo

Should we always use Factory recommended viscosity?

The only viscosities you will find for approved oils are 0W-xx and 5W-xx, with xx being 30 or 40. Google the www for LL-01. http://www.europeancarweb.com/news/e...s/viewall.html and http://www.auto-treff.com/bmw/vb/sho...77#post1114677 list most of them.

I just changed my oil on a 335i but it is still showing the same mileage til change which is at 1,000 miles. When you change the oil yourself is there a way to reset it without going to a dealer?

Originally Posted by ronwhi45

I just changed my oil on a 335i but it is still showing the same mileage til change which is at 1,000 miles. When you change the oil yourself is there a way to reset it without going to a dealer?

If your car is still under warranty, you don't want to do that. If you reset it, then you have to wait another 15-20K miles (or whenver the light comes on) to have the dealer change it free of charge.

But also curious if you're only 1000 miles away from an oil change, why not just wait a little longer for the dealer to change it? Again, this is all assuming you are still under warranty.

Originally Posted by ronwhi45

I just changed my oil on a 335i but it is still showing the same mileage til change which is at 1,000 miles. When you change the oil yourself is there a way to reset it without going to a dealer?

The fact that the OCM doesn't recognize that you've changed your oil is one reason I discount the various sources that tell you the car is measuring oil properties. I've changed mine multiple times without ever seeing the "miles to change" display reflect the new oil.

In any case, with a 2008 we'll assume you're not under warranty. So, to reset the indicator:

• Insert fob into slot
• Press start/stop button without depressing clutch/brake and wait for the service reminder to disappear.
• Immediately after service reminder goes out, press and hold the odometer reset. After 3 secs a warning triangle will appear, keep the odo. button pressed and after another 2-3 secs the Oil can will appear. Release button before you end up in the general service menu (in German).
• Use the toggle switch on indicator stalk to scroll up/down through the various service items.
• When you have the item you want to reset showing, press the BC button on end of indicator stalk. Reset should now appear in the display. Press in and hold the BC button for 2-3 secs and a clock will start whirling and you're done
• You can now either scroll up/down to select another item or you can press the start/stop button to exit.

Thanks so much for the information regarding the oil change reset. I knew there had to be a way to do it. Where I had the oil changed when I asked the young mechanic he looked like his head would explode. Now that I can reset it I will probably start doing the changes myself.

Many thanks!

Ron

if you dont plan on keeping the car after the warranty is up then change the oil when the BMW warranty will pay for it, if you plan on keeping it longer, Oil is cheap and engines are expensive and change at 7500 miles or less depending on driving habbits

the less you drive the more moisture will accumulate in the oil, some say change the oil every 6 months or 5000 miles

up to you at this point

Hondo

i get oil changes outside of warranty

Originally Posted by Moderato

Are you saying that the oil we are using in our BMWs now is the same oil we were using in 1974, plus the oil filters are worse now then they were back then? I'm not trying to be a wise ass, but that's what I'm getting from your answer. As far as you changing the oil every 5K miles I don't think there's anything wrong with that but I'd extend it to 7.5K, or every year just for convenience since it's my opinion that the oil & filters we have can safely last that long.

You should check out some of the Used Oil Analisys threads. They show massive fuel dilution if the oil, due to the high fuel pressures being pushed into the cylinders. Shear rates drop off near 3k miles of use. I have always done 3-5k depending on the season and driving habits; the harder I drive it, the sooner I change the oil. Doing the changes more frequently helps reduce wear and tear on the internals of the motor; in theory at least, only time will tell...

I paid for a luxury car and I shouldn't ever have to put oil in it. The oil it comes with should be plenty.

If the oil change guys want to stay in the 1950's leave them be. Most miles I had on a BMW schedule change car is 120K on a 2004 ZHP which is being replace by a 135is. No wear the could be determined buy less then a disassembly. Cylinder pressure test was same as new so the rings etc. were in good shape.

There is no definitive proof either way about oil changes other then when was the last time anyone heard of a oil related catastrophic failure?

the only time I ever head or saw evidence was at a toyota dealership, a broken rod was on the table, the guy said a woman locked up the engine at 40,000 miles because she never changed the oil.

It appears to me from looking at a lot of carfax histories that dealers vary with respect to this oil change policy. Take a look at the carfax for any three year old CPO BMW. For example: http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory...WC7C55AE271106. This particular car is a 335i-xdrive but I have seen at least a dozen similar carfax for 3-series cars. For this particular car the oil change intervals were at 10,850mi, 21,286mi and 25,800. This corresponds to time intervals of one year, one year, six months and mileage since last oil change of 10,850, 10,436, 4,514.

Policy is mileage or 1 year regardless of mileage. My first oil change was at about 9K miles. As a courtesy the dealer did not reset the mileage counter back to zero so I had a second change at 16K miles when the car went in for a read brake service, fresh wipers & to replace a radiator hose that was weeping.

Its in the dealers interest to get you in more often so he can attempt to upsell other non-scheduled services. Expect they would love BMW to go to a 7.5K deal like Ford.

Originally Posted by bmx335i

My baby (335i) got to 5000km and I believe I read somewhere that at this point, it should be brought to the dealership for an oil change. Well I called town and country bmw to make an appointment and the lady told me that I didn’t need one, and I should come back in 25,000 km OR 1 year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told her that she couldn’t be serious but she refused to give me an appointment... at least not an appointment covered under warranty... she told me that if i wanted an oil change under 25,000km, I had to pay...

Am I just lacking knowledge of how long a car can go without an oil change? Or does this woman fall under many that don’t know a thing about cars? Also, do all bmw dealerships have the same warranty? Maybe I got ripped off

It should be 24,000KM. But, you can always take it to an indy shop and do it there. It shouldn't cost more than $100 (or whatever that translates into for canadians). I do mine every 7500 miles (about 12,000km)

Originally Posted by furby076

It should be 24,000KM. But, you can always take it to an indy shop and do it there. It shouldn't cost more than $100 (or whatever that translates into for canadians). I do mine every 7500 miles (about 12,000km)

You do realize you are replying to a woman who has not posted anything since January, 2008!

Tom

The info provided is still useful to some readers.

I have been into cars my whole life since I was able to pick up a spanner. I have seen some instances that would make you lot not sleep at night. I also saw saw first hand how much a well broken in car can take.

I have seen GM + Toyota engines run on just top ups for many many years. Till timing belts eventually go. I have seen work vans from ford take so much abuse that it would make how an F1 driver drives his car seem like pampering.

Not one thing worries me about running my car to 15,000 miles because I know its less than 6 month of driving.