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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #376  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Based on wheels, the black one was a Luxury, not a Modern Line. They both have the same suspension though, so driving the Sport would have given you a different experience.
I stand corrected.
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  #377  
Old 02-15-2013, 12:17 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Looked at / test drove two 2013 328is today, a Melbourne Red with black Dakota, Sport line, Premium and a Modern line Black Saphire with Dakota Saddle Brown.

TL;DR: The F30 is a better sports sedan than the equivalent E90 - and - it is 100% a BMW.

Non-Driving review of the Red 328i Sport:

High quality materials, fit and finish. The Navi screen position is odd at first but not noticed after 30 seconds. The Speedo and tach are smallish, but ok. Don't like silver ring surrounding. No cover to cup holder, but later found it in glove box. Very BMW feel to steering wheel. Mat in trunk is a nice touch. Plastic of covered trunk struts? Fuel door is a bit bigger. Sport line is very attractive - red piping looks sharp.

Cup cover in small net in glove box is good, plus the net is cool. The other small net on back left is also a nice touch. Auto shift lever kinda looks odd. Modern?

The dash and controls canted to driver. Reminds me more of my E46. This is good. The Glove box feels tinny. Ok, No big deal. The In Dash LCD are cool below the gauges. Nice Led lights at top center. Good. Headliner good material weave good. Pirelli Cinturato P7s. Solid disks, Rear disks look smallish. M seats nice. Good support.

Driving review of the black Modern Line:

I test drove the black modern line 328i over a short 1.5 mile course. Excellent power. No noticeable turbo rattle at idle w window open. Great handling. Brakes firm and supportive. Transmission hesitation on spin up, but very very quick to downshift, and it seemed any turbo lag coincided with kickdown for quick reaction. Excellent road feel and steering on normal roads. Compliant suspension.

Car left in normal, not Eco or sport.

Color me impressed.
The interior design of the F30 is way ahead of the one in the E90. It is a little busy but it makes the E90 interior look very old. Also the LCI E90 is starting to look dated next to the F30. I can't comment on long term quality of materials in the F30 but my E90 has some visible wear and tear peeling near the window controls, on the steering wheel and on the outside shadow line trim. As far as the F30 being a better sports sedan than the E90, I know a lot of BMW enthusiasts and majority of automotive publications would disagree. The same can be said about E46 > E90.
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  #378  
Old 02-15-2013, 02:28 PM
sle39lvr sle39lvr is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post


Compared to the E90 it most certainly is.

You can go ahead and love your 6 year old car without putting down our new ones. We all owned E90's before we got our F30's, I think we know what we're talking about here, might have some expertise that you lack.

BJ
If you read my posts properly, you see that I do drive an F30. My wife has the E90 I used to drive. If course I love the F30 more, love the tech in it mostly. But most of it due to the fact that it's the newer car. I was thinking in twenty years, which car would I like better and consider as a better car....

I started this thread to discuss about differences between the two in a decent manner. Things that are rarely talked about and what majors reviews and comparisons has not covered.

It seems like these replies of yours, you try to sound ignorant and condescending. How many times have you accused of putting your car on a pedestal, just in this thread alone? This is my last reply on this board towards you. I wish you act a little more decently among these other decent people here.
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  #379  
Old 02-15-2013, 02:43 PM
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I decided to post a few before and after photos comparing changes by BMW and MB. Since MB has yet updated the C Class I used GLK350. Changes in the MB is more drastic. It also seems to go well with its emphasis on luxury, with the retro look.

BMW's changes are not as drastic, but more importantly, it does not make me feel the look is sportier, which should be BMW's emphasis. Instead it tries to look more luxurious, but as evident, MB has this part mastered. They are just better at offering more luxury feel.








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  #380  
Old 02-15-2013, 02:54 PM
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  #381  
Old 02-15-2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Thank you. That was an honest mistake, quite proud of the fact that I'm smart enough and wealthy enough to lease for the rest of my life.

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  #382  
Old 02-15-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post


Compared to the E90 it most certainly is.

You can go ahead and love your 6 year old car without putting down our new ones. We all owned E90's before we got our F30's, I think we know what we're talking about here, might have some expertise that you lack.

BJ
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  #383  
Old 02-15-2013, 04:48 PM
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this is my first BMW, and the only reason why is because i thought the e90's had poor ergonomics, a dated interior, and frankly not as luxurious as their competitors...

That all changed when i sat in the F30. The ultimate combination of technology, performance, and reasonable luxury at a price that is relatively competitive.
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  #384  
Old 02-15-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by suneil View Post
this is my first BMW, and the only reason why is because i thought the e90's had poor ergonomics, a dated interior, and frankly not as luxurious as their competitors...

That all changed when i sat in the F30. The pantultemet combination of technology, performance, and reasonable luxury at a price that is relatively competitive.
Ditto for me.
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  #385  
Old 02-15-2013, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by suneil View Post
this is my first BMW, and the only reason why is because i thought the e90's had poor ergonomics, a dated interior, and frankly not as luxurious as their competitors...

That all changed when i sat in the F30. The pantultemet combination of technology, performance, and reasonable luxury at a price that is relatively competitive.
I guess I don't understand the context?

There's this, which some would agree with - If something's the penultimate , then it's the second to last thing in a series.
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  #386  
Old 02-15-2013, 05:46 PM
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Here is an interior picture of a 1980 BMW 320i, which is (was) typical of German auto interiors. They were spartan with very good ergonomics. It is function over form, and is what separated BMW, Porsche and Mercedes from the American and Japanese counterparts.

From many of the posts in this thread, it would appear that the current buyers prefer form over function. I guess I'm wondering what separates German cars like BMWs from the American and Japanese cars today?

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  #387  
Old 02-15-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Here is an interior picture of a 1980 BMW 320i, which is (was) typical of German auto interiors. They were spartan with very good ergonomics. It is function over form, and is what separated BMW, Porsche and Mercedes from the American and Japanese counterparts.
I remember when Mercedes would take this 'form over function' to an extreme; even the most expensive models had a manual adjustment for the driver's door mirror! (although driver's window was still electric!) One of my favorite cars ever which my older brother had, 560SEC had this. Man that car was fun to drive what an engine...
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  #388  
Old 02-15-2013, 06:00 PM
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I remember when Mercedes would take this 'form over function' to an extreme; even the most expensive models had a manual adjustment for the driver's door mirror! (although driver's window was still electric!) One of my favorite cars ever which my older brother had, 560SEC had this. Man that car was fun to drive what an engine...
I found an interior picture of a 1979 Mercedes 300D. We owned one back in the day. The Mercedes interiors were more luxury oriented (wood inlays) as compared to the BMW interiors, but were still very functional.

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  #389  
Old 02-15-2013, 06:10 PM
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My 2012 Porsche Carrera interior that retains the German function over form, IMO. I love this interior layout because it does not get in the way of (complicate) my driving experience.



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  #390  
Old 02-15-2013, 07:07 PM
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^^^ Love the tach in the middle. As it should be.
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  #391  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:00 PM
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I stand corrected.
You did good.

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  #392  
Old 03-30-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I owned an E90 for 3 years prior to my F30. The answer to your question (assuming you have a 328i) boils down to this:

The F30 is 80% of what the E90 was. Materials are the same. Fit and finish is the same.

The 20% that is different is a big deal:

Torque: The turbo 4 is just a beast, so much faster off the line than the 6 it replaces, really throws you back in your seat.

Power: Once at speed, there's plenty more power to burst past other cars. I'll be driving on the highway completely oblivious to the fact that I'm doing 92 MPH and will have to slow myself down. It's effortless.

Transmission: The 8 speed auto is so much faster and smoother and accurate than the version it replaced. Because you don't have to stomp on the accelerator to get the car to move anymore, the transmission doesn't have to jerk wildly to get from 1st to 2nd to 3rd gear anymore.

Steering: It's lighter and easier. The car weighs less, so the combination of the weight reduction and the torque increase completely transforms how the car drives. It's effortless, requires a lot less effort and thought to get the car to go where you want it.

Experience Modes: This is not just savvy marketing, throwing the switch from Comfort to Sport changes the driving characteristics of the car completely, it feels like two different cars. Sport mode is crazy fun. Comfort mode is easier for the wife and kids stomachs. The E90 had neither. Was not as fun as Sport mode, was not as eased as Comfort mode. This is a big deal, not to be overlooked.

Size: The car has increased in size so there's a bit more shoulder room and rear passenger legroom but it doesn't feel bigger.

Audio System is upgraded. If you have a standard audio system in the E90 you'll be thrilled with the standard audio system in the F30 as it's the "enhanced" system they pay extra for in Europe.

Visibility is better: I find that the A pillar and B pillar location combined with new rear seatback position gives me a better overall view of the road.

It's more quiet: Not sure if it's the sound deadening material or better door seals but the F30 definitely has a more soundproofed cabin.

Interior looks and acts better: This myth about materials and quality you've read is BS. It's the same as the E90. What's different is the layout of the center stack, the integration of the wood and the dash components, the ambient lighting, the new cupholders, the thought that went into the storage compartments.

Great new standard equipment: The auto dimming mirrors, split-folding rear seat, power seats, garage door openers, and other throw-in's really make the experience better.

Technology: iDrive is now standard on all F30's. Nuff said. If you get the Technology Package, the head up display is crazy good and extremely functional.

Un-Bangled: The F30 has more refined sheetmetal, specifically the nose of the car which no longer looks like a Japanese pachinko machine.

BJ
I have to agree 100% on ALL OF THIS. I just had a 2013 328i A6 coupe as a loaner while our 2012 328i A8 sedan had to have the software updated. I'm sorry to all the 328i E90 owners, but that car is not in the same league as the F30. Our 2012 is the first BMW I've owned or even driven. Its a pure joy, great car and extremely fast for what it is. Its my wife's DD, mine is a modified 2011 Mustang GT. Driving the 328i coupe was way closer to driving my mustang than driving her sedan, except it was slower than both. That car has no get up and is a lot louder and harsher. The coupe had the M sport package which came with 18's, but I doubt that's the problem because my mustang has 20's. Of course the BMW has a better interior and no inside rattles (unlike my mustang), but was still a big let down.

I found this thread because I was trying to figure out why the coupe was such a let down. That 20% difference (mainly engine & transmission) puts the F30 FAR ahead of the E90. Ridiculously far.

Last edited by S197; 03-30-2013 at 03:33 PM.
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  #393  
Old 03-30-2013, 03:45 PM
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krash krash is offline
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I have to agree 100% on ALL OF THIS. I just had a 2013 328i coupe as a loaner while our 2012 328i sedan had to have the software updated. I'm sorry to all the 328i E90 owners, but that car is not in the same league as the F30. Our 2012 is the first BMW I've owned or even driven. Its a pure joy, great car and extremely fast for what it is. Its my wife's DD, mine is a modified 2011 Mustang GT. Driving the 328i coupe was way closer to driving my mustang than driving her sedan, except it was slower than both. That car has no get up and is a lot louder and harsher. The coupe had the M sport package which came with 18's, but I doubt that's the problem because my mustang has 20's. Of course the BMW has a better interior and no inside rattles (unlike my mustang), but was still a big let down.

I found this thread because I was trying to figure out why the coupe was such a let down. That 20% difference (mainly engine & transmission) puts the F30 FAR ahead of the E90. Ridiculously far.
Yes, I had an E90 335 and now an F30 335. I loved my E90, don't get me wrong, but seriously, I love my F30 335 much much more. I already wrote a lot of reviews on my new car, so I'm not going to go into a lot of details...

First of all, DHP is really nice. Love the different modes in DHP. Never had that on my E90. I think the performance is much better. Not really talking about 0-60, but I'm talking about performance across the entire band 20 to 50, 10 to 40, 30 to 60, etc. It's just much better; especially when in Sport Mode. iDrive is better. HK sound system is much better than the HK in the E90, handling is just as good, rear view camera is a big plus, instrumentation is better. Just about everything is. Most of all, the new 8 speed sport transmission is WAY BETTER than the old 6 speed Steptronic

However, there are 2 things I noticed...

1) Sport Seats. I am getting used to them, but I think I like the regular seats I had in my e90 better. I know. I'm the exception to the rule, and besides, this has nothing to do with the F30 vs the E90 anyway... It's just a matter of seat preference.

2) Steering. After 2 weeks, I think I discovered a scenario in which the steering feels a little vague like some have suggested. It's on straight-aways. If you make a subtle turn to the left or right, you can notice it, but on most roads, I don't notice it that much at all. Overall, I would say the steering is still very good, but maybe not as good as the E90. In addition, I would say that the steering in no way negates the F30 relative to the E90.
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  #394  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:05 PM
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Anyone looking for an ultimate driving machine, F30 is not for you. F30 has lost the great control E90 had (Altough it was not as good as E46, but E90 was still fun). Dampers are too soft and bouncy. There is more body roll than e90.

Good power, good design, great gas mileage, ok materials used inside, nice steering but bit too soft. If I could, I would replace it with an E90 today!!!!

Commenting after owning 4 3-series in last 9 years, and driving 15K miles on current 328i Sports Line.
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  #395  
Old 06-15-2013, 02:18 PM
awaisht awaisht is offline
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Everyone has different definition of a good car, and everyone is looking for something different in a good car. If you are looking for brand name, design, looks, gas mileage, sleek interior, and silky ride, you should get F30.

All I look for in a BMW is power and control. F30 has the power but very little control. On E46 or E90 I could easily make a quick turn at 120mph, but on F30 that would result in killing myself.

If you have the money, buy a F30 and install after market coilovers, then you would have ultimate driving machine.
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  #396  
Old 06-15-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I owned an E90 for 3 years prior to my F30. The answer to your question (assuming you have a 328i) boils down to this:

The F30 is 80% of what the E90 was. Materials are the same. Fit and finish is the same.

The 20% that is different is a big deal:


BJ
Totally agree with everything you said BJ ... You confused me on your first statement though

I would have said the E90 was 80% of the F30 since the f30 has that extra 20%

I went from 2010 E90 320i to 2012 F30 320i over here in Australia .. The F30 is a joy to drive .. And I did love my E90!!!

Those extra 20% are fantastic ..

Garyw
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  #397  
Old 06-15-2013, 07:43 PM
kkapdolee kkapdolee is offline
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Originally Posted by awaisht View Post
Anyone looking for an ultimate driving machine, F30 is not for you. F30 has lost the great control E90 had (Altough it was not as good as E46, but E90 was still fun). Dampers are too soft and bouncy. There is more body roll than e90.

Good power, good design, great gas mileage, ok materials used inside, nice steering but bit too soft. If I could, I would replace it with an E90 today!!!!

Commenting after owning 4 3-series in last 9 years, and driving 15K miles on current 328i Sports Line.
Is there a general consensus that E46 is a way better "driver's car" than both E90 and F30? I test drove an E46 M3 just today and felt that it had better traction but the suspension was too harsh and overall, not very impressive.
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  #398  
Old 06-15-2013, 09:46 PM
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chiefneil chiefneil is offline
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Is there a general consensus that E46 is a way better "driver's car" than both E90 and F30? I test drove an E46 M3 just today and felt that it had better traction but the suspension was too harsh and overall, not very impressive.
Not from me. I have an E46 330i as a daily driver and I've had many E90 loaners. I think the driving experience is very similar; the E90 corners a bit flatter and is generally a little more refined. They're both great cars IMHO.

I never upgraded because they actually seemed so similar, with the deciding factor being that I wasn't fond of the E90's external appearance.
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  #399  
Old 06-15-2013, 10:42 PM
GaryW GaryW is offline
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BJ, do you really prefer that light steering in your F30? The only item I dislike about F30 is the EPS. Otherwise, BMW has done a marvelous job on F30's suspension especially during urban driving.
Agreed ... I normally have the F30 in "comfort" mode for my daily commute to work .. Only 30 minutes each way on pretty straight roads with no real driving ability needed ..

Switch to "sport" and "sport+" on the weekends and one appreciates the fact that the F30 is a multifaceted beast ... Which come alive at the press of a button... I do like it better than my E90 ...

Garyw
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  #400  
Old 06-18-2013, 04:04 PM
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Posts: 529
Mein Auto: '11 E92 335is
People Switched from E90 to F30 - Please comment

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikenski View Post
Just came out of a 328i xDrive loaner that I had for a few days while my E92 335i xDrive was in for service.

My take is that BMW spent *way* too much effort on "Eco Pro" gimmicks, and nowhere near enough focus on driving dynamics. Why should I have to press a bunch of buttons to try to make the car behave like a European sports sedan should, instead of driving like a Prius? Hit a button so the car doesn't turn itself off every time it stops, hit another button to keep the transmission from starting out in what feels like 3rd gear from lights, etc. And there isn't a button to make the 4 cylinder exhaust note sound befitting of a nearly $50,000 car. Come to think of it, even the steering was vague and artificial like that aforementioned Prius.

At least in a Prius you're rewarded with 50 mpg fuel economy for putting up with the lack of driving dynamics, but the 328 returned a whopping 3 MPG better than my 335 doing the same commute. I know that's a lot for a manufacturer struggling to meet tightening fuel economy standards, but to the actual vehicle owner, I don't think it's worth all the sacrifices that were made to eek out those few extra MPGs.

It's not all bad news though. The body structure of the F30 is tight as a drum, wind noise is noticeably lower than in the E9x, the automatic transmission is a huge improvement over the old GM unit, and the HUD and other tech gadgetry works well. None of those improvements kept me from being glad to hand back the key to the loaner and get back behind the wheel of my "old" E92 though.

Sure hope the upcoming F32 has much better driving dynamics, or my second BMW just might be my last. C'mon Munich - don't sacrifice the driving experience that sets you apart from the rest of the herd under the guise of efficiency!
+ 100. I agree with you completely. These are all of my thoughts exactly. So I've been itching to order an F32 435 sight unseen for a few months now and I am very glad that I wasn't able to. I currently drive an e92 335xDrive coupe that is coming to the end of its lease. Love the car! Engine, handling. Etc etc just for sh*ts and giggles I test drove an F30 335 sport line last night. Sorry but what a boat! I couldn't believe this is what the 3 series has turned into! All I could think of was ultimate driving machine ya right!!!!! I'm not going to continue to bash the Prius err F30 but needless to say the 435 is out and I'm going too either buy the e92 off lease or give the 135 a shot for a few years. I've been reading the 135 is still a "real" BMW.


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'11 E92 335is DCT ProTuned by PTF Black Sapphire Metallic (Mine)
'14 F30 335xDrive Mineral Grey (Wifey)
'11 E92 335xDrive Space Grey (Retired)
'08 E90 328xi Alpine White (Retired)
'04 E46 325xi Silver Grey (Retired)
'03 E46 330xi Titanium Silver (Retired)
'98 Audi A4 2.8 Black (Retired)
'89 Saab 900 Turbo Grey (Retired) 350,000 miles

ED - Aug/Sept 2013 - '14 F30 335xDrive w/DHP Mineral Grey
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