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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:46 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Come, your post about the Prius is right above, and you didn't say "or younger." You said "or younger" for the article. But I give you the 2/3 anyway since maybe half of X Gen-rs are also under 40. So you were probably between 3/4 to 4/5 right
You know what, you learn something new everyday. Apparently they are not hipsters, there is a new name, NQR40: not quite rich under 40.

Luxury manufactures are all drooling after this group, providing cheap entry level luxury models aimed at them:

http://blogs.indystar.com/shiftingge...or-the-nqr40s/
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  #77  
Old 02-16-2013, 05:42 AM
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Sounds like a ridiculous claim by a guy who can't appreciate a great design, and just looks for something popping-smoke like a "futuristic design" that will become passe and tired equally as fast. Of course, not liking a 4 is understandable, but not liking it because it doesn't look like some goofy "futuristic" thing is a self-serving and unreasonable attitude (and not of great taste, in my own opinion).

The 4er from what we've seen so far looks like one of the nicest cars, period, to me.
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  #78  
Old 02-16-2013, 07:10 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Sounds like a ridiculous claim by a guy who can't appreciate a great design, and just looks for something popping-smoke like a "futuristic design" that will become passe and tired equally as fast. Of course, not liking a 4 is understandable, but not liking it because it doesn't look like some goofy "futuristic" thing is a self-serving and unreasonable attitude (and not of great taste, in my own opinion).

The 4er from what we've seen so far looks like one of the nicest cars, period, to me.
Not a guy, which may be the key here. But then as I pointed out, females are majority car buying decision makers now.
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  #79  
Old 02-16-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Sounds like a ridiculous claim by a guy who can't appreciate a great design, and just looks for something popping-smoke like a "futuristic design" that will become passe and tired equally as fast. Of course, not liking a 4 is understandable, but not liking it because it doesn't look like some goofy "futuristic" thing is a self-serving and unreasonable attitude (and not of great taste, in my own opinion).

The 4er from what we've seen so far looks like one of the nicest cars, period, to me.
Coming from an Acura TL, the "futuristic design" of the new TL is hideous to say the least. Something about traditional that does not go out of style. What I really have admired about BMW is that the styling stays close to the previous models. A fifteen year old BMW 3-series is still stylish not outdated and old as say the futuristic design of the 1998 Buick Riviera.

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  #80  
Old 02-16-2013, 02:39 PM
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I don't know if the 1998 Riviera was "futuristic" but I never thought it was particularly attractive. But I never thought the E36 was particularly attractive either.

For years I did not shop the 3 Series because, among other things, I never liked the way they looked. The first 3 I liked the looks of was the E92 and so far I like the new 4 Series.

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  #81  
Old 02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
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Gen y is technically anyone born in 1981 through 1990. After that is the millenials. I'm in gen y barely by two weeks. So I guess some of us are in our early 30s and BMW should be in our can afford realistically range.

That said based on all my friends in the 25 to my age range this generation is not doing well financially. Basically the only people I know who can afford nice things work in medical or tech related fields. I know a lot of between jobs folks. They still go out and party but they don't buy any new car
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  #82  
Old 02-16-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
Coming from an Acura TL, the "futuristic design" of the new TL is hideous to say the least. Something about traditional that does not go out of style. What I really have admired about BMW is that the styling stays close to the previous models. A fifteen year old BMW 3-series is still stylish not outdated and old as say the futuristic design of the 1998 Buick Riviera.

Very much agreed. To me it's all about style over fashion/trends, and style is mostly exemplified in timelessness. BMW making their looks iconic is why we all love BMW. If they did some fad-ish "futuristic" thing every time they'd be like any other manufacturer with no strong continual identity, grasping for quick buck designs which end up being an embarrassment in their portfolio after enough time has passed to shed light on just how time specific and dated they usually have become.

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  #83  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:47 AM
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Very much agreed. To me it's all about style over fashion/trends, and style is mostly exemplified in timelessness. BMW making their looks iconic is why we all love BMW. If they did some fad-ish "futuristic" thing every time they'd be like any other manufacturer with no strong continual identity, grasping for quick buck designs which end up being an embarrassment in their portfolio after enough time has passed to shed light on just how time specific and dated they usually have become.

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See: Hyundai Sonata.
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  #84  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Very much agreed. To me it's all about style over fashion/trends, and style is mostly exemplified in timelessness. BMW making their looks iconic is why we all love BMW. If they did some fad-ish "futuristic" thing every time they'd be like any other manufacturer with no strong continual identity, grasping for quick buck designs which end up being an embarrassment in their portfolio after enough time has passed to shed light on just how time specific and dated they usually have become.

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Look at the new Lincoln's for a perfect example of 'fad-ish' 'futuristic'
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  #85  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:55 AM
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well some people just dont understand the aesthetics of subtle, understated, minimalist design. some companies try hard at doing it and fail, basically producing boring overpriced boxes of cars - look at audi. they're either really boring or extremely flamboyant and ridiculous (R8).
Sorry I disagree I think most new Audis look fantastic, eg S4, A7, even A4 Sportline...
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  #86  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I don't know if the 1998 Riviera was "futuristic" but I never thought it was particularly attractive. But I never thought the E36 was particularly attractive either.

For years I did not shop the 3 Series because, among other things, I never liked the way they looked. The first 3 I liked the looks of was the E92 and so far I like the new 4 Series.

CA
We like the look of the 4 Series. However , the 4 door will be our go to BMW. It is just not practical having a Coupe. We wish BMW had upgraded the Inline 6 with a little more HP for the F30 Captain, got the pictures . Thank you so much. Loved the Sam Posey pictures especially
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  #87  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:46 PM
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We like the look of the 4 Series. However , the 4 door will be our go to BMW. It is just not practical having a Coupe. We wish BMW had upgraded the Inline 6 with a little more HP for the F30 Captain, got the pictures . Thank you so much. Loved the Sam Posey pictures especially
Many will argue that BMW was never about HP until the N54 engine. It was always about ride and handling, but I see that many here seem to want more because BMW is starting to lose again in that category. Which one is it?
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  #88  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:04 PM
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Sorry I disagree I think most new Audis look fantastic, eg S4, A7, even A4 Sportline...
+1

The R8 is a super car costing more than $120k - I think most super car owners want flamboyance.

Boring overpriced....Hmm, just because they can't make it up on volume in the U.S. with $399 lease deals, they are not overpriced. They are comparable to BMW without the incentives and crazy lease deals to drive its sales #'s in the U.S. It will be some time for Audi to catch up in U.S. sales, or maybe never, but worldwide they are doing just fine. Here is an article just to show that "subtle and boring" cars, as chris328 mentioned, sell just fine.

"FRANKFURT (Bloomberg) -- Audi cut BMW's lead in 2012 luxury-car sales to just 2,110 vehicles in August, threatening BMW's seven-year hold on the top position in premium auto deliveries.

The Volkswagen Group's luxury brand boosted eight-month sales 13 percent to 961,000 vehicles, compared with the BMW brand's 7.8 percent increase to 963,110 autos, according to the two companies' monthly sales reports. BMW, the world's largest-maker of luxury cars, led by 40,513 vehicles through August of last year.

VW is reaping the benefits from pouring 20 billion euros ($25.6 billion) into research and development at Audi since 2002. The luxury brand now sells 12 model lines, twice what it had in 2003, including three SUVs, the A1 compact and the R8 sports car. Audi, which ranks second in premium-vehicle deliveries since overtaking the Mercedes-Benz brand in 2011, has a goal of beating BMW by 2020.

Audi is likely to overtake BMW several years ahead of that target unless "there are surprising shifts in market share which I don't expect, especially in China," said Daniel Schwarz, a Frankfurt-based Commerzbank analyst. "They are the strongest growing luxury brand, and they just launched the A3, which is close to being their best-selling car in a peak year."



Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2012...#ixzz2LDvUTLdM
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  #89  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:56 PM
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Concept looks nice. Will it drive the same way?
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  #90  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:49 PM
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Look at the new Lincoln's for a perfect example of 'fad-ish' 'futuristic'
Bingo. Totally. Those cars, especially the new 4-Door which is just an awkward attempt at uber-futuristic-ness will be extremely time-stamped dates in the future. Some might see it as more "ooh" than the more conservatively balanced and evolutionarily focused F30, but even they (for all their unfortunate automotive tastes ) will most surely notice the F30 (or any car that shares its sort of design strategy) will look just as good in several years time, as the E46 still does.
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  #91  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:04 PM
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See: Hyundai Sonata.
Another great example. The Sonata is only a 2011, and so much "excitement" was thrown around it when it launched, due to it being relatively "futuristic" for such a conservative segment, and IMO it already seems passe and kind of tiring to see. Designs like that, especially when on such high volume cars, are just not well aging or easy on the eyes when you have to see what are supposed to be such "boastful" said designs so much. This is why BMW's current design language is such a massive hit, it is aggressive and sporty in the most natural way: Proportionally and simply, not by frivolous gestures, yet it also is smooth enough to just look graceful regardless of how much you'll have see it.

Audi's IMO are by far the most conservative of the big 3 Germans. If you don't do "understated" right, it can come across as boring and dull (see new VW Sedan designs). IMO Audi puts a very "futuristic" front on their cars, but the rest (rear & sides) are conservative and simple in a way that's nice and clean, yet actually can be sometimes considered boring and maybe a bit drab, whereas BMW's own execution IMO doesn't hold them guilty of that.

Simple, minimalist, timeless is always the way to lead design in any segment, it's just MUCH harder to do that then to do something boastful and trendy. Apple proved that a successfully attempted minimalist/simple will revolutionize the world of design many times over, and Porsche's 911 proves that the same approach works in the automotive world very much.
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  #92  
Old 02-18-2013, 06:03 PM
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Another great example. The Sonata is only a 2011, and so much "excitement" was thrown around it when it launched, due to it being relatively "futuristic" for such a conservative segment, and IMO it already seems passe and kind of tiring to see. Designs like that, especially when on such high volume cars, are just not well aging or easy on the eyes when you have to see what are supposed to be such "boastful" said designs so much. This is why BMW's current design language is such a massive hit, it is aggressive and sporty in the most natural way: Proportionally and simply, not by frivolous gestures, yet it also is smooth enough to just look graceful regardless of how much you'll have see it.

Audi's IMO are by far the most conservative of the big 3 Germans. If you don't do "understated" right, it can come across as boring and dull (see new VW Sedan designs). IMO Audi puts a very "futuristic" front on their cars, but the rest (rear & sides) are conservative and simple in a way that's nice and clean, yet actually can be sometimes considered boring and maybe a bit drab, whereas BMW's own execution IMO doesn't hold them guilty of that.

Simple, minimalist, timeless is always the way to lead design in any segment, it's just MUCH harder to do that then to do something boastful and trendy. Apple proved that a successfully attempted minimalist/simple will revolutionize the world of design many times over, and Porsche's 911 proves that the same approach works in the automotive world very much.
iPhone's design is very different if you put first/second gen against the latest. Timelessness works with niche products, not ones aimed at masses.

In this segment, manufactures are selling by volume, and doing so with subsidized leases. Most people keep them for the first few years, timelessness is not an issue.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:38 PM
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iPhone's design is very different if you put first/second gen against the latest. Timelessness works with niche products, not ones aimed at masses.

In this segment, manufactures are selling by volume, and doing so with subsidized leases. Most people keep them for the first few years, timelessness is not an issue.
Timelessness is always an issue when it comes to building a trust and confidence from consumers. In fact, timelessness and an iconic evolutionary design trait is amongst other things why premium brands are so recognizably premium. There's a reason why brands like BMW and the like always showcase their lineage side by side with current models, and get an outpouring by enthusiasts in support, because "we" like to believe our cars have the design foresight and potential to be equally as "classic".

Honda, Ford (with the exception of Mustang) and those who simply "think for today" and don't have what it takes to carefully evolve an iconic idiom will never showcase their previous models so proudly.

Apple products stay very close to themselves, and thus have made them distinctly recognizable even amidst a sea of copycats. Look, feel, workmanship, materials, etc. All build a likeness which consumers appreciate when executed correctly. Look no further than BMW and Audi excelling now more than ever as their designs become more and more almost interchangeably evolutionary. At the same time Mercedes has abandoned their own careful evolutionary strategy for something more frenzied to look different from what they did before, and they're losing market share more than ever, even with by far the largest lineup of the trio. IMO amongst other things, its all fairly correlated.
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  #94  
Old 02-18-2013, 09:19 PM
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BMW has a very limited presence in the collector car market and they are not even a dot on the horizon compared to Metcedes Benz. In a way this is a good thing because some great old BMWs like the 2900/3.0 CS are IMO very undervalued and can be purchased at very reasonable prices/

Also, although they certainly seem to have lost their way lately, Lexus became the top selling luxury brand within a few years of introduction with no history whatsoever. It took years for BMW to gain the sales crown from Lexus. Lexus took it from Cadillac.

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Old 02-18-2013, 09:50 PM
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BMW has a very limited presence in the collector car market and they are not even a dot on the horizon compared to Metcedes Benz. In a way this is a good thing because some great old BMWs like the 2900/3.0 CS are IMO very undervalued and can be purchased at very reasonable prices/

Also, although they certainly seem to have lost their way lately, Lexus became the top selling luxury brand within a few years of introduction with no history whatsoever. It took years for BMW to gain the sales crown from Lexus. Lexus took it from Cadillac.

CA
Lexus rode on the weakness of the German brands at the time and attracted a large very non enthusiast base due to an affordable dependability that was necessary in the luxury market. In the recent years BMW and Mercedes have gotten better and marketing their heritages and historically acquired prestige which is one of the reasons why Lexus is having such a hard time against them these days.

BMW's heritage is very important to their customers which you can witness resonate throughout these very boards when you hear how many previous owners complain that they're "not the same as they used to be". These days it's more about driving characteristics but during the E60 era we saw first hand how many enthusiasts were almost offended by such a drastic aesthetic departure. BMW benefited from true to form driving dynamics during that period and attracted a new customer base, but thereafter quickly went back to classically inspired traditional BMW design language where their popularity hit all new heights therefore grabbing the luxury car sales crown almost immediately during this transition back to visual form. It's no coincidence IMO.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:18 PM
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Lexus rode on the weakness of the German brands at the time and attracted a large very non enthusiast base due to an affordable dependability that was necessary in the luxury market. In the recent years BMW and Mercedes have gotten better and marketing their heritages and historically acquired prestige which is one of the reasons why Lexus is having such a hard time against them these days.

BMW's heritage is very important to their customers which you can witness resonate throughout these very boards when you hear how many previous owners complain that they're "not the same as they used to be". These days it's more about driving characteristics but during the E60 era we saw first hand how many enthusiasts were almost offended by such a drastic aesthetic departure. BMW benefited from true to form driving dynamics during that period and attracted a new customer base, but thereafter quickly went back to classically inspired traditional BMW design language where their popularity hit all new heights therefore grabbing the luxury car sales crown almost immediately during this transition back to visual form. It's no coincidence IMO.
Lexus lost market share because they stopped building interesting cars.

As they say in the music business "You are only as good as your last hit record."

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Old 02-18-2013, 11:06 PM
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Lexus lost market share because they stopped building interesting cars.

As they say in the music business "You are only as good as your last hit record."

CA
Lexus ever made interesting cars?
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:21 PM
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this is worst looking coupe ever

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Old 02-18-2013, 11:38 PM
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Funny thing is I bet you when that thing came out (or anything that tried to be bold in a very predictable way) automotive journalists were heralding it as a "bold futuristic design" while in the same breath perhaps panning the more "predictable" designs from Mercedes and BMW and the like. We see the same things these days, so many cars from Hyundai or whoever who do something overly fashionable and get the journo's salivating, only to find those same people considering them passe in a few or so short years.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:43 AM
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SilverX3 SilverX3 is offline
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Mein Auto: 130i & E92 325i, E90 SOLD
Well if you believe journalists for what they say you believe pigs can fly
They say whatever to sell magazines / newspapers
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