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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #76  
Old 02-18-2013, 05:50 AM
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It's amazing how far people will argue in order to rationalize their debadging. Again, no matter the reason, you either will look trendy to some or a poser to others. But you shouldn't have to rationalize this because it doesn't matter just remove your badges and call it a day. I just hope they continue putting them on my car.
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  #77  
Old 02-18-2013, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdude View Post
It's amazing how far people will argue in order to rationalize their debadging. Again, no matter the reason, you either will look trendy to some or a poser to others. But you shouldn't have to rationalize this because it doesn't matter just remove your badges and call it a day. I just hope they continue putting them on my car.
I'll call it a day on debadging, but unfortunately, you sparked a thought: What if BMW stopped putting badges on their cars? Would people buy aftermarket badges to show off that they have a bigger engine or xDrive? If that's the case maybe they could then get badges for major options like some people do with their signatures here at the Fest. Anyone with Photoshop & an hour to spare want to create that trunk lip?
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  #78  
Old 02-18-2013, 06:23 AM
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This seemingly trivial thread is touching a great lot of aspects - and aesthetics is by far the least important of them. The most important - though few people admit it openly - is about psychology, vanity etc.

Some people prefer debadging because - especially with the xDrive logo now at the back - it all can look cluttered. I'm one of them.

Some people would debadge their low-end models (like 528i) in order to pretend they have a better car (550i, for instance). Yet others - for the exactly opposite reason; having spent premium on a 550i, they prefer to stay low-profile... If any, I'm in the latter category.

But there also are people who put the M badge on their very low-end, worn and old vehicles; I can see plenty of them here in Poland. Speaking of which - you can spot quite a number of seemingly debadged BMWs here whose badges just got stolen by vandals, or "art collectors"!

Psychology aside, I AM going to my 528ix simply because I like the clean look; the BMW roundel is proud and nice enough to indicate what I'm driving

Piotr

PS. Plus, I'm used to driving a debadged BMW - I've done so for 10 years with my old good 330i...
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Last edited by MoldCAD; 02-18-2013 at 06:24 AM.
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  #79  
Old 02-18-2013, 07:33 AM
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I agree with Stealth. The majority of debadged BMWs you see in Europe are of the low displacement variety. I go there a lot and travel with local car guys; their typical reaction to seeing a debadged car is to look at the exhaust. 99% of the time it's a dinky single pipe, indicating there's not much displacement under the hood. They (at least the guys I've worked with) chuckle at that, the assumption being the owner is 'posing'. Now and then you'll see a more expensive model debadged, but it's rare.
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  #80  
Old 02-18-2013, 07:58 AM
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1. Germans are snobs and love cars. They debadge their cars because they figure if you are a car enthusiast you know what is under the skin, and it does not need to be advertised. They also don't compare or display their wealth like Americans.

2. Germans are very private people. Do not get too close to them when you are being introduced. Shake their hands, in order from dad, mom, and even the children. Look at their eyes when you shake their hands. Never, never hug them. That's reserved for the family only. When you are accepted as their friends and go to their homes, the host will serve fine liquor or wine (if they drink) after a meal or their afternoon sweet with coffee or tea.

How do I know? I have more German than American friends.
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Last edited by Dave 330i; 02-18-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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  #81  
Old 02-18-2013, 08:51 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdude View Post
It's amazing how far people will argue in order to rationalize their debadging. Again, no matter the reason, you either will look trendy to some or a poser to others. But you shouldn't have to rationalize this because it doesn't matter just remove your badges and call it a day. I just hope they continue putting them on my car.
Not trying to rationalize anything; I do as I please, which I hope others do as well. This is a thread, with a question, with answers, some of which I disagree with; nothing personal. Otherwise, I wasn't the one who brought up design anyway; need me to connect the dots(?):

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I see the badges including the roundel as part of the overall design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
When was the last time you could go out and buy a concept vehicle? That's a frankly ludicrous argument.
One person's saying badges are part of a car's design, while he and another are saying [final] design concepts don't count; hmm...

If anyone is interested in an answer to this thread, not just opinion, look at what I've said before and what Dave says below on culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
1. Germans are snobs and love cars. They debadge their cars because they figure if you are a car enthusiast you know what is under the skin, and it does not need to be advertised. They also don't compare or display their wealth like Americans.

2. Germans are very private people. Do not get too close to them when you are being introduced. Shake their hands, in order from dad, mom, and even the children. Look at their eyes when you shake their hands. Never, never hug them. That's reserved for the family only. When you are accepted as their friends and go to their homes, the host will serve fine liquor or wine (if they drink) after a meal or their afternoon sweet with coffee or tea.

How do I know? I have more German than American friends.
Finally, another 'American' who understands! Sheesh. The King of Common Sense, no doubt; thanks.

Last edited by dbs600; 02-18-2013 at 09:35 PM.
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  #82  
Old 02-18-2013, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
I'll call it a day on debadging, but unfortunately, you sparked a thought: What if BMW stopped putting badges on their cars? Would people buy aftermarket badges to show off that they have a bigger engine or xDrive? If that's the case maybe they could then get badges for major options like some people do with their signatures here at the Fest. Anyone with Photoshop & an hour to spare want to create that trunk lip?
I'm going to put a "HUD" badge on my trunk lip!
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  #83  
Old 02-18-2013, 09:26 AM
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That's cool. That's truly "I don't give a f**k what other people think about what I do to my car!" look.
Lol exactly, even the hubcaps and license plate holder had Hyundai logos on them.
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  #84  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:13 AM
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So un-german. In fact, it's not legal.
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  #85  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:50 AM
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In many EU countries, BMW are expensive compared to US, The lowest price for a 5-series (520d) without options is about 100.000 USD. A 550 will cost about 200.000 USD. So a badge will only say "Rich", "Richer", or "Richest". Therefore, most EU cars are without badges. What you pay for a BMW 550 in US is what we in EU pay for a Volvo V60 (and even a Volvo V60 can be ordered unbadged....)

Last edited by Mobileum; 02-18-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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  #86  
Old 02-18-2013, 11:35 AM
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You exaggerate; here in Poland a fully loaded 520d is less than $100,000 (still expensive, of course).
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  #87  
Old 02-18-2013, 11:39 AM
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You exaggerate; here in Poland a fully loaded 520d is less than $100,000 (still expensive, of course).
Lucky you, overhere I am sure I can spend a $100.000 on a nice 520D though.
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  #88  
Old 02-18-2013, 12:04 PM
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I can see where debadging would allow the real appeal of the car to shine through.
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  #89  
Old 02-18-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
1. Germans are snobs and love cars. They debadge their cars because they figure if you are a car enthusiast you know what is under the skin, and it does not need to be advertised. They also don't compare or display their wealth like Americans.

2. Germans are very private people. Do not get too close to them when you are being introduced. Shake their hands, in order from dad, mom, and even the children. Look at their eyes when you shake their hands. Never, never hug them. That's reserved for the family only. When you are accepted as their friends and go to their homes, the host will serve fine liquor or wine (if they drink) after a meal or their afternoon sweet with coffee or tea.

How do I know? I have more German than American friends.
Yes, this is pretty spot-on. Also, don't spill the remainder of the coffee that you didn't drink out the car window. Lol.
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  #90  
Old 02-18-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
1. Germans are snobs and love cars. They debadge their cars because they figure if you are a car enthusiast you know what is under the skin, and it does not need to be advertised. They also don't compare or display their wealth like Americans.

2. Germans are very private people. Do not get too close to them when you are being introduced. Shake their hands, in order from dad, mom, and even the children. Look at their eyes when you shake their hands. Never, never hug them. That's reserved for the family only. When you are accepted as their friends and go to their homes, the host will serve fine liquor or wine (if they drink) after a meal or their afternoon sweet with coffee or tea.

How do I know? I have more German than American friends.
Interesting discussion.

My car is debadged, because - well it was in the showroom...

I am German by the way and I actually don't mind either way:

1) Some people debadge because of the cleaner look
2) Some people debadge because they don't want people knowing what they drive...

Before my 5er, I had a 120d (fully loaded though)... I left the badge on - I am quite alright with people knowing that it's "middle class", neither top of the range, nor slow.

However - it was loaded with features and actually more expensive than a basic 123 / 135 (top engines) - and that's why showing of the engine badge, is rather pointless either way.

My 520d could well be a 530, the exhausts are the same and unless the engine is running (and you're an expert in the noise difference), you wouldn't know. As a friend actually said when I told him "it's only a 520" - "Oh, it looks like more!", while just last week a british colleague thought it was a 3 Series...

I am also fine with that. I know people that not only debadge their 550d M, but even swap the mirror covers, so that people can't tell what a powerful (and expensive) machine it is.

Unfortunately, particularly in Germany, there are plenty of jealous people.
Driving a brand new M or something like that to a customer is hardly acceptable and you never know who's going to key it when you park down town, simply because they can't afford it.

In some countries, people will be happy for others driving nice cars, in Germany however, rather than thinking "If he can afford it, he probably deserves it", a more common thought appears to be "Why can he afford it, and I can't?"

Sad, but that's my opinion and experience. - So for me, people don't need to know whether I drive a 520, a 550 or even a 5 Series - they can tell it's a nicely equipped BMW that probably cost a few bucks, but that's sufficient.


By the way - has anyone on this board ever been to Saudi Arabia?

What I found absolutely ridiculous, is that 75% of the cars still had the dealer sticker in the window (!)

I am still not sure whether that's to show off (my assumption), or people actually care so little about there cars, they consider removing them a waste of time...

Finally, to respond to Dave330i's cultural observations:

Germans are not necessarily private people, but they usually take some time to "warm up" - and they generally mean what they say. Unlike some places in the US, where I felt you chatted with some stranger for 5 Minutes and they invite you to their home and what not (without actually meaning it), you wouldn't ever experience that in Germany. People will only ever give out genuine invitations, and typically show their "real face" in most situations - that's why our high streets are so messed up with store clerks "genuinely not giving a f*ck" (if you wait in line for example), while Germans than get totally confused that they have to repeat "I'm just browsing" every two minutes, because people keep approaching you when shopping in the states.... probably not really giving a f*ck either, but at least pretending to - Just considering that I've never been asked "How are you?" in a McDonalds in Germany, or probably any shop... why would they care? And why do Americans always give me a weird look when I respond that I am having a sh*tty day?

Anyway... You don't have to shake hands in a specific order and you're welcome to hug people (if you are genuine friends anyway) - you can also stop by, crash on the couch and ask for a beer - Germans are not really that different typically...

Last edited by digitaldriver; 02-18-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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  #91  
Old 02-18-2013, 04:35 PM
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  #92  
Old 02-18-2013, 04:42 PM
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"Welcome to Costco, I love you.".
Possibly one of the best movies of all times!
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  #93  
Old 02-18-2013, 06:08 PM
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So un-german. In fact, it's not legal.
I keep hearing this off that pic... "Bow chika wow wow...."
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  #94  
Old 02-18-2013, 07:47 PM
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By the way - has anyone on this board ever been to Saudi Arabia? What I found absolutely ridiculous, is that 75% of the cars still had the dealer sticker in the window (!)
Wow! Never knew this! Would definitely like to know the reason. Maybe the car's aren't registered and the 'owners' plan to turn them around and sell them as new after their month-long joyride?

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaldriver View Post
they generally mean what they say. Unlike some places in the US, where I felt you chatted with some stranger for 5 Minutes and they invite you to their home and what not (without actually meaning it), you wouldn't ever experience that in Germany. People will only ever give out genuine invitations, and typically show their "real face" in most situations
Kid you not, was talking to two German girls at a bar recently and they said the SAME EXACT THING. They said how annoying Americans are in saying "I'm not your friend anymore" to someone one night, only to go back to being best friends the following morning, stating same would never happen in Germany, as those aren't words meant for taking back. They also mentioned the "how are you's" with hollow meaning, as you state.

Otherwise, way off topic, but when I was on European Delivery I noticed how Germans completely bump and shove into each other (strangers) at bars to get from one end of the bar to the next without so much as a peep, hand raised or fist thrown. Not guys 'accidentally' bumping into guys, but guys pushing aside and nearly taking down girls (and vice versa); major confrontation would be had in the US! This was in Munich.

As far as vandalism goes, correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless of the jealousy, Germans (and Europeans as a whole) are far more careful with others peoples cars when parking next to them, correct(?); where they take care in not causing door dings, etc.? If true, I suppose it has to do with their car-loving culture?

Last edited by dbs600; 02-18-2013 at 07:57 PM.
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  #95  
Old 02-18-2013, 08:13 PM
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As far as vandalism goes, correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless of the jealousy, Germans (and Europeans as a whole) are far more careful with others peoples cars when parking next to them, correct(?); where they take care in not causing door dings, etc.? If true, I suppose it has to do with their car-loving culture?
After living in Europe for about 4 years, I've found that Europeans in general, especially Italians, take less care in being careful in a parking lot or on the street. I've never seen bumpers used in the literal sense of the word as I have in Italy (except for maybe Egypt).
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:05 PM
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Otherwise, way off topic, but when I was on European Delivery I noticed how Germans completely bump and shove into each other (strangers) at bars to get from one end of the bar to the next without so much as a peep, hand raised or fist thrown. Not guys 'accidentally' bumping into guys, but guys pushing aside and nearly taking down girls (and vice versa); major confrontation would be had in the US! This was in Munich.
Dense crowds in Germany take some getting used to - during last week's Dance of the Market Women fasching event in Munich, I was almost knocked over by six girls dressed as a caterpillar - and I'm a big guy. Despite the numerous generalizations about Germans, each and every one is unique in their own way.

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  #97  
Old 02-18-2013, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaldriver View Post
Interesting discussion.

My car is debadged, because - well it was in the showroom...

I am German by the way and I actually don't mind either way:

1) Some people debadge because of the cleaner look
2) Some people debadge because they don't want people knowing what they drive...

Before my 5er, I had a 120d (fully loaded though)... I left the badge on - I am quite alright with people knowing that it's "middle class", neither top of the range, nor slow.

However - it was loaded with features and actually more expensive than a basic 123 / 135 (top engines) - and that's why showing of the engine badge, is rather pointless either way.

My 520d could well be a 530, the exhausts are the same and unless the engine is running (and you're an expert in the noise difference), you wouldn't know. As a friend actually said when I told him "it's only a 520" - "Oh, it looks like more!", while just last week a british colleague thought it was a 3 Series...

I am also fine with that. I know people that not only debadge their 550d M, but even swap the mirror covers, so that people can't tell what a powerful (and expensive) machine it is.

Unfortunately, particularly in Germany, there are plenty of jealous people.
Driving a brand new M or something like that to a customer is hardly acceptable and you never know who's going to key it when you park down town, simply because they can't afford it.

In some countries, people will be happy for others driving nice cars, in Germany however, rather than thinking "If he can afford it, he probably deserves it", a more common thought appears to be "Why can he afford it, and I can't?"

Sad, but that's my opinion and experience. - So for me, people don't need to know whether I drive a 520, a 550 or even a 5 Series - they can tell it's a nicely equipped BMW that probably cost a few bucks, but that's sufficient.


By the way - has anyone on this board ever been to Saudi Arabia?

What I found absolutely ridiculous, is that 75% of the cars still had the dealer sticker in the window (!)

I am still not sure whether that's to show off (my assumption), or people actually care so little about there cars, they consider removing them a waste of time...

Finally, to respond to Dave330i's cultural observations:

Germans are not necessarily private people, but they usually take some time to "warm up" - and they generally mean what they say. Unlike some places in the US, where I felt you chatted with some stranger for 5 Minutes and they invite you to their home and what not (without actually meaning it), you wouldn't ever experience that in Germany. People will only ever give out genuine invitations, and typically show their "real face" in most situations - that's why our high streets are so messed up with store clerks "genuinely not giving a f*ck" (if you wait in line for example), while Germans than get totally confused that they have to repeat "I'm just browsing" every two minutes, because people keep approaching you when shopping in the states.... probably not really giving a f*ck either, but at least pretending to - Just considering that I've never been asked "How are you?" in a McDonalds in Germany, or probably any shop... why would they care? And why do Americans always give me a weird look when I respond that I am having a sh*tty day?

Anyway... You don't have to shake hands in a specific order and you're welcome to hug people (if you are genuine friends anyway) - you can also stop by, crash on the couch and ask for a beer - Germans are not really that different typically...
There are a lot of truth about German cashiers, who don't give a ****, and most hate their job. I was with one of my German exchange student in Wolfsburg, who had acquired the American sense of humor while he was in the USA with us. So, as we were paying for a pair of gloves (cold December) with nothing but coins he made a joke (American would think it was funny, but not the German lady) the cashier was supper pissed because she had to count them.
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Last edited by Dave 330i; 02-18-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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  #98  
Old 02-18-2013, 09:39 PM
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I lived almost 30 years in Europe, 4 years in Africa and 10+ years in my new home the US of effing A and I'm as proud of my Viking heritage as I am of this amazing place and awesome people that has adopted me and my family as friends, neighbours, colleagues and fellow citizens with no prejudice or hostility whatsoever. Go U.S.A! That said, Germans are cool and make amazing cars. Debadge all you want!

Last edited by solstice; 02-18-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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  #99  
Old 02-18-2013, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
As far as vandalism goes, correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless of the jealousy, Germans (and Europeans as a whole) are far more careful with others peoples cars when parking next to them, correct(?); where they take care in not causing door dings, etc.? If true, I suppose it has to do with their car-loving culture?
Oh hellllll no, lol.

I witnessed in Europe people beating the crap out of cars without regard. I Was in a car that would push other cars out of the way to make room for it to park, which was par for the course out there apparently. And this was a new Jaguar at that. In Paris cars are so beat and dinged up you'd wonder why you even would want a nice car. General rules on roads are much more no holds barred, Police have very little presence in Paris, and people will literally speed up to almost run over pedestrians.

To top that off my own cousin who's a taxi cab driver was shocked when I told him in America we don't actually run from cops and engage high speed chases. No joke.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:25 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Oh hellllll no, lol.
Strange, forget where I heard this; maybe not Europe in general, but Germany in particular...?

Just found this: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.p...1&postcount=11

And from another thread: "Seems to be an American thing-I drove the same car in Germany for 8 years and never got a single door ding."

Last edited by dbs600; 02-19-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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