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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 02-16-2013, 08:58 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Jaguar's BMW 3 Series Rival Edges Closer

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...l-edges-closer
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2013, 10:07 AM
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I think their reputation suffered a lot of damage, and rightfully so during the x-type fiasco, which was a rebaged ford contour. But regardless, i am glad to see more competion, that might be the only way to make BMW go back to what they used to do best.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:25 AM
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Jag has the name recognition, unfortunately not so much among younger crowds, which is this segment after. In a sense this is similar to the Caddy ATS. Both needs to reestablish their reputation among younger buyers. Both have distinct styles that separate them from the other brands.

The new Jag will be two years late compared to ATS. They seem to acknowledge that, taking a more low key approach. I don't know what he meant by providing something special for this segment, my bet is on the styling, not driving dynamics.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:42 PM
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I don't see many people cross-shopping these.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:13 PM
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I would be interested. I have had several Jaguars over the years including an XK120, a Mark IX, 2 XJ8s and an XKR. I liked all of them a lot. I am also interested in the new F-Type.

I wouldn't ever have considered an X Type.

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Old 02-16-2013, 02:25 PM
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Jaguar is on a roll with the XF and F Type. A 3 series competitor could be sweet.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:11 PM
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I'm seeing many new Jaguars on the roads here in Northern Palm Beach, FL County, including three new ones in my neighborhood of 115 houses since I was last here in the beginning of December.

In fact, I'm seeing many new cars here including a Bentley and a Tesla. I guess the frothing stock market has people in the buying mood again?
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I'm seeing many new Jaguars on the roads here in Northern Palm Beach, FL County, including three new ones in my neighborhood of 115 houses since I was last here in the beginning of December.

In fact, I'm seeing many new cars here including a Bentley and a Tesla. I guess the frothing stock market has people in the buying mood again?
I see jags all over south florida, what part of palm beach are you in?
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:16 PM
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:21 PM
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I never thought I would cross shop German automobiles with a Jag, but I must say that the Brits know how to design good looking cars. Can't wait for the F-Type coupe to come out.



Here's another British brand, Aston Martin


Beautiful designs.

I can only imagine what some BMW owners would say in the forums if anyone had a Jag - "Land Rover and Jaguar is just a rebadged Tata motors."

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Old 02-16-2013, 07:08 PM
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I see jags all over south florida, what part of palm beach are you in?
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I see jags all over south florida, what part of palm beach are you in?
Here is a Jaguar XKR-S in Boca Raton.




Jaguar Chief of Design, Ian Callum, also was Chief or Design for Aston Martin.

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  #13  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:54 AM
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Come on chaps, why all the hate for the X-Type? Yeah, it was a Mondeo (it was a version of the platform that was never sold in the US except as the X-Type). Many people hated the Contour... but that car was based on the previous generation Mondeo.

Anyway, my girlfriend just sold her X-Type (160K miles and the buyer happily drove it back to Arizona with not a whimper) and I thought it was a lovely car. Sure it was a bit "old" in the interior appointments and I did often amuse her by pointing out that all the air handling pieces behind the dash were stamped with "Ford" logos... but it still had a true Jaguar drive-train. The engine and transmission were both Jag parts (and by extension the AWD) as well as the suspension. I have been in a lot of Jags in my life (my dad worked for them) so I can tell you it definitely drove, sounded and felt like a Jaguar. There were some bits I felt were a bit low-rent on the interior but generally they could be ignored most of the time.

Sure, it was no 3-series and wasn't serious competition for the then-current E46. However, based on the experience I have had with her car for the last four years we've been together (she had it before we met) I will actually take a very long hard look at this new car. More competition in this space is always a good thing. The ATS is dynamically a great competitor to the F30, just a shame about its god-awful interior. That alone will drive people away because the interior is the bit you see the most.

My girlfriend really wanted an XF as her next car because she had such a great experience with the X-Type... she just couldn't justify the cost and so ended up buying a 2010 A4 that she's really quite happy with.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:06 AM
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Come on chaps, why all the hate for the X-Type? Yeah, it was a Mondeo (it was a version of the platform that was never sold in the US except as the X-Type). Many people hated the Contour... but that car was based on the previous generation Mondeo.

Anyway, my girlfriend just sold her X-Type (160K miles and the buyer happily drove it back to Arizona with not a whimper) and I thought it was a lovely car. Sure it was a bit "old" in the interior appointments and I did often amuse her by pointing out that all the air handling pieces behind the dash were stamped with "Ford" logos... but it still had a true Jaguar drive-train. The engine and transmission were both Jag parts (and by extension the AWD) as well as the suspension. I have been in a lot of Jags in my life (my dad worked for them) so I can tell you it definitely drove, sounded and felt like a Jaguar. There were some bits I felt were a bit low-rent on the interior but generally they could be ignored most of the time.

Sure, it was no 3-series and wasn't serious competition for the then-current E46. However, based on the experience I have had with her car for the last four years we've been together (she had it before we met) I will actually take a very long hard look at this new car. More competition in this space is always a good thing. The ATS is dynamically a great competitor to the F30, just a shame about its god-awful interior. That alone will drive people away because the interior is the bit you see the most.

My girlfriend really wanted an XF as her next car because she had such a great experience with the X-Type... she just couldn't justify the cost and so ended up buying a 2010 A4 that she's really quite happy with.
I found the ATS interior, like its exterior, has too much shining bits, but a lot of people like such "rich" design.

At the end of the day, the brand that offers more options that fit diverse tastes will benefit. For example, BMW offers either black or chrome trims for people with different taste on exterior interpretation, and multiple trims for interiors as well.

I don't like any of the exteriors of the new F30 trims, but there is the m-sport package some of us can fall back on and live with.

Last edited by dtc100; 02-17-2013 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:02 PM
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Jaguar is on a roll with the XF and F Type. A 3 series competitor could be sweet.
Many people were worried when Jaguar was purchased by Tata. But so far, it seems they are trying to produce top quality new products. Tata has reportedly invested a lot of money in Jaguar.

I think most people on this forum are wanting sporty cars, and not luxury cars. So the new Jaguar may not be a substitute for a BMW 3-Series. I doubt that I would consider changing to Jaguar. But for someone searching for a more luxury-oriented car, the new Jaguar may be a good fit.

The Jaguar X-Type was widely criticized, since it was based on the Ford Mondeo. Interestingly, I have had Mondeo rental cars on a few occasions, and found them to be very decent cars. They drove and handled well; although not to the same standard as a BMW. Admittedly, the Mondeos I drove were mostly equipped with a four-cylinder engine, manual transmission, and right-hand-drive.

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Old 02-17-2013, 09:53 PM
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I would be interested. I have had several Jaguars over the years including an XK120, a Mark IX, 2 XJ8s and an XKR. I liked all of them a lot. I am also interested in the new F-Type.

I wouldn't ever have considered an X Type.

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Old 02-18-2013, 10:29 AM
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Many people were worried when Jaguar was purchased by Tata. But so far, it seems they are trying to produce top quality new products. Tata has reportedly invested a lot of money in Jaguar.
I might be incorrect, but i believe new models of Jaguars started appearing in showrooms while it was still owned by Ford, or right after they sold it to Tata. I am just assuming Tata had very little to do with designing current models.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:02 AM
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Am I the only one seeing a resemblence with the new Ford Fusion? Which would also still be pretty much a Mondeo? I might still be biased and resenting Ford for (at least according to me) damaging the Jaguar brand...
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:34 AM
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Am I the only one seeing a resemblence with the new Ford Fusion? Which would also still be pretty much a Mondeo? I might still be biased and resenting Ford for (at least according to me) damaging the Jaguar brand...
Yes, you are the only one. That new Jaguar is gorgeous!
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:44 AM
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Am I the only one seeing a resemblence with the new Ford Fusion? Which would also still be pretty much a Mondeo? I might still be biased and resenting Ford for (at least according to me) damaging the Jaguar brand...
Not necessarily a Ford but definitely american car like - esp with that front grill. I also think Ford ruined Jaguar. The Xtype was a travesty. I'd like to see the back and side views first before passing any final judgements.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:03 PM
thegandalf thegandalf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Yes, you are the only one. That new Jaguar is gorgeous!
I am not saying that the Jag doesn't look nice. I also think the new Fusion is not bad looking either (not quite my cup of tea and/or what I am looking for at this point but...).

Look at the pict on the OP link and at the pictures from the ford website, and tell me there is really no familly resemlance...

Fusion:
http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/gallery/photos/
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by thegandalf View Post
I am not saying that the Jag doesn't look nice. I also think the new Fusion is not bad looking either (not quite my cup of tea and/or what I am looking for at this point but...).

Look at the pict on the OP link and at the pictures from the ford website, and tell me there is really no familly resemlance...

Fusion:
http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/gallery/photos/
If anything, Ford is copying designs from Jaguar and Aston Martin.

I like the new Ford lineup, but my first impression was exactly that.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:14 PM
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I like the new Ford lineup, but my first impression was exactly that.
Fair enough. The grilles on all Ford cars now is clearly "borrowed" from Aston Martin
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:20 PM
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Jaguar Chief of Design, Ian Callum, also was Chief or Design for Aston Martin.
That explains a lot. Astons are achingly beautiful designs and it seems every recent Jaguar is prettier than the last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper_330 View Post
Come on chaps, why all the hate for the X-Type?
...
Sure, it was no 3-series and wasn't serious competition for the then-current E46.
You answered your own question there. Jaguar (ok, Ford) wanted a piece of the burgeoning market for AWD entry-level luxury cars but didn't bother to create a true competitor for the 325/330xi, A4 quattro and C Class 4Matic. Worse, Jaguar's then-current design language did not fare well when scaled down to compact dimensions, unlike the German designs of the day--it just looked awkward next to its larger siblings. It was a decent car in its own right but stacked against its peers, it was near the bottom of the heap, and deservedly so.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:44 AM
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... but didn't bother to create a true competitor for the 325/330xi, A4 quattro and C Class 4Matic.
Actually, though it was no competition for the E46, I would have happily put it up against a similar year A4. That was a time when Audi really lost its way and the then-current A4 was (in my opinion) a piece of crap. It was only with the B7 that they started to turn it around, and with the B8 that it really became a competitor for the 3-series. I can't speak to the Merc because I never owned one and didn't know anyone who did.

Styling is subjective though; I rather liked the X-Type even before I drove one. You're right that there was a little awkwardness to it, but I really found it charming. It didn't exude speed like the E46's "running shoe profile" did, but I think it served the purpose quite nicely.

I'll also say that the AWD was also probably my favourite part of the car; I drove Subarus for the longest time and found their AWD system very good for keeping me out of trouble (had a few SVX's that I loved), but the Jag's AWD was the first time I had found myself actually having fun with it. That car was an absolute riot in the snow.
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