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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:01 AM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwt View Post
my neighbour's Lincoln has better electronics and most of the features at $30K less ...
The implementation and usability of the features is just as important, if not more so, than the mere inclusion of those features. This is something that is often overlooked by a lot of people, including the magazines, when comparing two vehicles.

Comparing a Lincoln to a 5er reminds me of comparing a Kindle Fire to an iPad. Sure, the Kindle Fire is nice and has all of the same features, but the iPad is still much better, more refined, and worth the extra money, if you can afford it.
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  #27  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:09 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
Comparing a Lincoln to a 5er reminds me of comparing a Kindle Fire to an iPad. Sure, the Kindle Fire is nice and has all of the same features, but the iPad is still much better, more refined, and worth the extra money, if you can afford it.
Couldn't have said it better. Quality goes way beyond specs.
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  #28  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:21 AM
Cwt Cwt is offline
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F10 vs E39

Ouch ... while I love my BMW, I would suggest before you make the iPad vs Kindle comparison, you take a look at Ford Electronics vs BMW. Even Bimmer magazine rated Ford higher. Go play with both and tell me why the BMW is "quality over specs". If nothing else, the Ford is far easier and more intuitive to use. No - I would not buy a Ford - just saying BMW is just a little behind the curve.

My $100 Garmin runs circles around the BMW Nav system in my F10 .. and my lifetime Garmin upgrade cost $39 vs. the $250 annual cost I was quoted at BMW ...
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  #29  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:37 AM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwt View Post
Ouch ... while I love my BMW, I would suggest before you make the iPad vs Kindle comparison, you take a look at Ford Electronics vs BMW. Even Bimmer magazine rated Ford higher. Go play with both and tell me why the BMW is "quality over specs". If nothing else, the Ford is far easier and more intuitive to use. No - I would not buy a Ford - just saying BMW is just a little behind the curve.

My $100 Garmin runs circles around the BMW Nav system in my F10 .. and my lifetime Garmin upgrade cost $39 vs. the $250 annual cost I was quoted at BMW ...
Please post a URL for us to read about how great Ford controls and electronics are. I'm genuinely interested.

The Lincoln's usability is not good. And I've driven other Ford vehicles too, such as the Explorer. I was forced to drive a relatively new Explorer for a month while my Odyssey was repaired from a collision. I hated every minute of it because the controls and so forth are not usable. They suck.

But I'm interested in any reviews you've read that rate them high. Maybe I've been driving the wrong Ford vehicles.

Regarding the Garmin, I've used one. I hated it. The user interface was not good and it was sluggish. Reminds me of the Kindle Fire (although I don't hate my Kindle Fire, I just don't love it).

Regarding the F10 nav, I've heard numerous reports of it being inaccurate. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive so I have not had any personal experience with it yet. But the features do actually need to work, so if the F10 nav struggles to be accurate then that would be a negative.
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  #30  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:15 PM
Stonehauler Stonehauler is offline
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I have a Ford, I also have a BMW. Both have nav, voice features, etc.

Ford CAN be clunky at times, but overall it is much easier to use. When you add in the fact that Ford has continued to improve their system (mine is a 2011 system purchased in mid 2010), SYNC just blows the BMW system out of the water. Please remember, this is the touch screen/nav based SYNC system. I've also driven a Ford vehicle without nav, but with SYNC, and I would concur that it is horrible when compared to both BMW and Ford Nav based systems.

Now, BMW is a nice car overall, but with just a few minor changes to the drivetrain, I might have purchased a Ford Taurus SHO (needed to be more RWD biased). If I were to choose between a 3 coupe and a Mustang, I might just choose the Mustang. They are different cars for different things and it's a matter of preference. Overall, I purchased the 550 because it did what I wanted it to do better than the others I looked at. I bought by truck for the very same reason. It does what I need/want it to do better than the others I looked at did.

One thing I would encourage everyone to do when looking for your next vehicle is drive the competition. Don't be a brand snob...especially if you love to actually DRIVE your cars. BMW is a great car, but unless you want the car just because it will impress others, don't buy it because it says BMW. Instead, buy your car based on how you feel when driving it. In doing so, you may find that your next love affair will be with an Audi, a Mercedes, a Ford, a Lincoln, a Toyota, or a Mazda....or some other make altogether.
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  #31  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:47 PM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehauler View Post
I have a Ford, I also have a BMW. Both have nav, voice features, etc.

Ford CAN be clunky at times, but overall it is much easier to use. When you add in the fact that Ford has continued to improve their system (mine is a 2011 system purchased in mid 2010), SYNC just blows the BMW system out of the water. Please remember, this is the touch screen/nav based SYNC system. I've also driven a Ford vehicle without nav, but with SYNC, and I would concur that it is horrible when compared to both BMW and Ford Nav based systems.

Now, BMW is a nice car overall, but with just a few minor changes to the drivetrain, I might have purchased a Ford Taurus SHO (needed to be more RWD biased). If I were to choose between a 3 coupe and a Mustang, I might just choose the Mustang. They are different cars for different things and it's a matter of preference. Overall, I purchased the 550 because it did what I wanted it to do better than the others I looked at. I bought by truck for the very same reason. It does what I need/want it to do better than the others I looked at did.

One thing I would encourage everyone to do when looking for your next vehicle is drive the competition. Don't be a brand snob...especially if you love to actually DRIVE your cars. BMW is a great car, but unless you want the car just because it will impress others, don't buy it because it says BMW. Instead, buy your car based on how you feel when driving it. In doing so, you may find that your next love affair will be with an Audi, a Mercedes, a Ford, a Lincoln, a Toyota, or a Mazda....or some other make altogether.
Now I'm curious. I'll probably go check it out on Saturday. The Ford's I've driven probably did not have what you describe.

Does it have a controller like iDrive? And if so, where is the controller located?

One of the main usability niceties of iDrive is the location of its controller. It's the best location, especially for cruising, because you can leave your arm on the arm rest. Additionally, a controller has a distinct advantage over a touch screen in that you tend to memorize the movements needed to access the features, which makes them accessible without taking your eyes off the road.
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2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry
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  #32  
Old 02-21-2013, 04:55 PM
Elmanzah Elmanzah is offline
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Every time I drove an American car over the last 20 years, I was left hating the experience! Whether it was the terrible seats or the cheap plastics or the poor design or the un reliability or the TERRIBLE sales experience at the show room, it was just an aweful experience. I don't think I'll ever buy an American car again.
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  #33  
Old 02-21-2013, 06:18 PM
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Look at almost any Ford, or any other american car for that matter, that is 5 years old. They look dated, old. Now look at a BMW. ANY BMW, 5, 10 or 20 years old. It still looks classy, interesting. German cars tend to age really well. I would be happy driving a 10 or 15 year old MB, BMW or Porsche. Would you like a 10 year old Lincoln????

Overall, I don't think there is any other sedan on the road that I would rather drive than my F10 535 M-Sport.
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  #34  
Old 02-21-2013, 06:59 PM
Stonehauler Stonehauler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
Now I'm curious. I'll probably go check it out on Saturday. The Ford's I've driven probably did not have what you describe.

Does it have a controller like iDrive? And if so, where is the controller located?

One of the main usability niceties of iDrive is the location of its controller. It's the best location, especially for cruising, because you can leave your arm on the arm rest. Additionally, a controller has a distinct advantage over a touch screen in that you tend to memorize the movements needed to access the features, which makes them accessible without taking your eyes off the road.
No, mine is a touchscreen controller, but I can do almost everything via voice commands. It takes a little practice, but it's a lot more logical than the BMW voice commands, plus there are prompts on what to say next. Finally, I can do something like...press voice button speak phone, speak call ...even if I have not programmed in any voice dials on the phone itself. Say...call brother on cell and it will call my brother on his cell phone....say call brother at home and it dials his home number. I hardly ever use my touch screen unless I am pulled over and scrolling over on the map (iDrive is nicer there). I have to use my iDrive much more often on my Bimmer, rather than using the voice commands.
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Last edited by Stonehauler; 02-21-2013 at 07:01 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-21-2013, 07:12 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by Stonehauler View Post
No, mine is a touchscreen controller, but I can do almost everything via voice commands. It takes a little practice, but it's a lot more logical than the BMW voice commands, plus there are prompts on what to say next. Finally, I can do something like...press voice button speak phone, speak call ...even if I have not programmed in any voice dials on the phone itself. Say...call brother on cell and it will call my brother on his cell phone....say call brother at home and it dials his home number. I hardly ever use my touch screen unless I am pulled over and scrolling over on the map (iDrive is nicer there). I have to use my iDrive much more often on my Bimmer, rather than using the voice commands.
You'd hate M-B then. The voice control on my E-Class was pathetic enough that I found myself shouting simple names at it (probably looked like a maniac to others on the road, lol) like "CALL MOM.... CALL M.O.M..... CALL JOHN.... CALL JONNNNNN.... CALL F***IN JOHN YOU STUPID ****I* ***T!!!!".

My BMW has a perfect Voice Control compared to what I was previously used to. I can say to call just about anybody in my phone book and "she'll" get it right.

BTW, how the heck to we send Texts out? I can read my Texts, but the option to "Speak to Text" or simply "Reply" are either grayed out or just don't work.
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  #36  
Old 02-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Stonehauler Stonehauler is offline
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Originally Posted by Elmanzah View Post
Every time I drove an American car over the last 20 years, I was left hating the experience! Whether it was the terrible seats or the cheap plastics or the poor design or the un reliability or the TERRIBLE sales experience at the show room, it was just an aweful experience. I don't think I'll ever buy an American car again.
I've had good luck with my American cars over the years. In fact, I have not owned an American car that burned oil....but my brand new 550 burns oil and it's "normal". I used to drive the heck out of my cars (50, then 90 mile one way commutes). They would all end up much higher than 100k miles. Now that I work out my home, it's not as bad (50ft commute bed to computer), but I still drive when I take vacations (1200+mile trips). I would rather take any of my American vehicles over my wife's 330 over any decent distance. Finally, my wife's 3 is in about the same condition then her Grand Prix was at the same age/milage

I would also take an American truck over any non-US trucks. (and yes, i mean trucks and 1/2, 3/4 ton sport utes). The Tundra is nice, as is the Sequoia, but I prefer the Suburban or the F Series.

I will give you points for the cheap plastics issue...especially GM.

That said, I have had horrible sales experiences with Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, and BMW. Mrs. Stonehauler and I are both engineers, have good jobs (and no kids), but when we walk into a Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, or BMW dealership, we are overlooked, passed by, and generally ignored. Why? Most likely because we are not in the 40+ crowd. I have not had the same experience at Ford or GM.

When I walk in ready to order my car (all but one of my cars was a factory order), I know EXACTLY what I want, and what I do not want, and I will ask for their bottom line...no back and forth, but their best deal the first time. I will have a list of options and I will already know the price both wholesale and retail. If they are within $500 of each other, I will go with the one that is closer to me or has a better service dept, but if a dealership has ignored me, my wife, or was a general pain to deal with...they will not earn my business no matter how good their price might be. Nor will I go there to service. I drove 50 miles to service my Lexus previously. There were dealers closer, but I believe that it's good to reward a dealership that does right by the customer.
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Last edited by Stonehauler; 02-21-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:39 PM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehauler View Post
Mrs. Stonehauler and I are both engineers, have good jobs (and no kids), but when we walk into a Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, or BMW dealership, we are overlooked, passed by, and generally ignored. Why? Most likely because we are not in the 40+ crowd.
I have been an engineer most of my life (I now quintuple as engineer, product manager, designer, c-level exec, and bimmerfest liaison) and I know exactly why you are probably overlooked: being an engineer, you probably wear jeans and a T-shirt that is frayed around the neck!

I know. I've been there. LOL!

Now, I make sure I drive my nicest vehicle and wear 12 layers of clothing with a handkerchief in my pocket and a scarf around my neck so I look like I'm straight off the cover of GQ and now I am only overlooked 50% of the time!
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2013 550i xDrive | Jet Black | Venetian Beige | Dark Red Sycamore | M Sport | Dynamic Handling | Sport Auto Trans
2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry
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  #38  
Old 02-22-2013, 06:25 AM
Elmanzah Elmanzah is offline
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Originally Posted by Stonehauler View Post
but if a dealership has ignored me, my wife, or was a general pain to deal with...they will not earn my business no matter how good their price might be. Nor will I go there to service. I drove 50 miles to service my Lexus previously. There were dealers closer, but I believe that it's good to reward a dealership that does right by the customer.
You are better than me. I would ignore the brand all together.

Growing up, my dad brought home many different cars. I remember marveling at how a Plymouth - (donít recall which but it had ďPlymouthĒ written across the back. It was so big that the word fit with ample space between the letters lol) Ė we drove in used to soak up bumps in this one stretch of uneven road. It did that better than any other car we had including range rover, land cruiser a large Datsun and a Mercedes e280 and probably a few more others.

I grew up marveling about how large American sedans had the ability to soak up bumps. My first car as a matter of fact was a large Buick Roadmaster. I loved that car but slowly grew to understand that at high speeds and in turns, floaty isnít good lol.

When it was time to buy a new car, I wasnít as well prepared as you were and I remember walking with my wife into a Ford dealer ship and being exposed to games, rudeness, arm twisting and flat out bullying! We didnít know better back then and we eventually left without buying the car but feeling shocked at the experience. I remember a sales manager demanding to know from me if ďI was serious about buying a carĒ! To them I HAD to leave the dealership with a car. We didnít and I look back and wonder why I didnít put them in their place and told them to go F themselves. We didnít receive such treatment at a BMW dealership and we walked out happy with our first 3 series. Save for a Corvette z06, we stuck with BMWs (as well as one maxima) for all our cars ever since. That corvette had many issues including a steering lock problem that rendered the car useless. I honestly didnít get to enjoy it since day one. Another disappointment.

I am sure my experience is not the norm and there are probably many fine American cars. My uncle is very happy with his Cadillac CTS coupe. I just canít bring myself to consider them especially that I am really happy with my BMW and canít wait for my new car to arrive.
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  #39  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:20 AM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
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Originally Posted by Elmanzah View Post
Growing up, my dad brought home many different cars. I remember marveling at how a Plymouth - (don't recall which but it had "Plymouth" written across the back. It was so big that the word fit with ample space between the letters lol) Ė we drove in used to soak up bumps in this one stretch of uneven road. It did that better than any other car we had including range rover, land cruiser a large Datsun and a Mercedes e280 and probably a few more others.

I grew up marveling about how large American sedans had the ability to soak up bumps. My first car as a matter of fact was a large Buick Roadmaster. I loved that car but slowly grew to understand that at high speeds and in turns, floaty isn't good lol.
Here's your chance to relive the glory days:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=322474323

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It's my grandfather's 1984 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency! The second picture shows my g-pa with his beloved Ninety-Eight when he took delivery of it. Check out that cockpit and those seats. Those seats were pure luxury back then. That engine was a 5.7 liter 180 horsepower V8. Dunno how they got so little power out of that but they managed it.

This was my very first experience in a large, soft American boat. It's funny you say you "marvel[ed] about how large American sedans had the ability to soak up bumps" because when I first road in this vehicle, that was *exactly* what happened to me.

And, ok, now don't laugh at me for saying this, but over the past week as I've become more and more anxious to take delivery of my 550i, which has DDC and ARS, I've been closet-hoping that in comfort or comfort+ mode, it soaks up bumps just like this Ninety-Eight! I have literally thought, "I wonder if my vehicle with DDC and ARS will soak up bumps like g-pa's Ninety-Eight."

Granted, I want my 550i to also do well in corners, but when I'm cruising the freeway, I want it to feel like a tank and provide a glass smooth ride.
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2013 550i xDrive | Jet Black | Venetian Beige | Dark Red Sycamore | M Sport | Dynamic Handling | Sport Auto Trans
2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry

Last edited by cordoor; 02-22-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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  #40  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:31 AM
Stonehauler Stonehauler is offline
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Originally Posted by cordoor View Post



It's my grandfather's 1984 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency! The second picture shows my g-pa with his beloved Ninety-Eight when he took delivery of it. Check out that cockpit and those seats. Those seats were pure luxury back then.

This was my very first experience in a large, soft American boat. It's funny you say you "marvel[ed] about how large American sedans had the ability to soak up bumps" because when I first road in this vehicle, that was *exactly* what happened to me.

And, ok, now don't laugh at me for saying this, but over the past week as I've become more and more anxious to take delivery of my 550i, which has DDC and ARS, I've been closet-hoping that in comfort or comfort+ mode, it soaks up bumps just like this Ninety-Eight! I have literally thought, "I wonder if my vehicle with DDC and ARS will soak up bumps like g-pa's Ninety-Eight."

Granted, I want my 550i to also do well in corners, but when I'm cruising the freeway, I want it to feel like a tank and provide a glass smooth ride.
Mine is very smooth when in comfort or comfort+ It's a car I would not mind driving long periods of time....more importantly, the seats in the 550 are some of the very best I have every had the pleasure of sitting in. Be sure to take your time and adjust your seats to youself. This by itself will greatly improve your driving experience.
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  #41  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:42 AM
Elmanzah Elmanzah is offline
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[QUOTE=cordoor;7397566]

And, ok, now don't laugh at me for saying this, but over the past week as I've become more and more anxious to take delivery of my 550i, which has DDC and ARS, I've been closet-hoping that in comfort or comfort+ mode, it soaks up bumps just like this Ninety-Eight! I have literally thought, "I wonder if my vehicle with DDC and ARS will soak up bumps like g-pa's Ninety-Eight."
QUOTE]

I just spit up food through my nose reading that comment!! LMAO! It is so true! I too am a closet floater LOL! And lets NOT forget about that steering! What other car allowed you to steer with your pinky? And the low end torque? what about that? My Buick roadmaster can do 0-5 mph faster than a porsche 911 turbo! lol.. ok.. I am exaggerating but you know what I mean.

One of the first trips I plan to make is take my parents out to dinner in Manhatten in my new 550 and guess what setting it will be in. Comfort ++++ lol

okay I think we offended many on this forum. Truth is I always wished for a car that can deliver both ends of the spectrum. That would be the ultimate solution to the problem of mobility: Uncomporomising performance in both luxury and performance. I call it duality. We'll see how my car will deliver on that.
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  #42  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:49 AM
Elmanzah Elmanzah is offline
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Here is the plymouth I was so in love with as a child lol

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=1976+...d=1t:429,i:177

Notice the park sensors in the bumper?! lol ;-)
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Last edited by Elmanzah; 02-22-2013 at 08:55 AM.
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  #43  
Old 02-22-2013, 09:35 AM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
cor door sedan
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Awe yeah!

Honestly, I would love to own one of these vehicles in tip-top shape.
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  #44  
Old 02-22-2013, 09:42 AM
Stonehauler Stonehauler is offline
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If only steering with your pinky wasn't associated with the 1-2 inches of play in the wheel....
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2013, 09:47 AM
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cordoor cordoor is offline
cor door sedan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehauler View Post
If only steering with your pinky wasn't associated with the 1-2 inches of play in the wheel....
LOL!

But then, that goes back to the experience as a kid, watching g-pa navigate the beast, adjusting the position of the wheel back and forth to keep her straight on course...
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:30 AM
Elmanzah Elmanzah is offline
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Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
lol!

But then, that goes back to the experience as a kid, watching g-pa navigate the beast, adjusting the position of the wheel back and forth to keep her straight on course...
+1
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  #47  
Old 02-23-2013, 07:35 AM
IaHawk IaHawk is offline
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Mein Auto: 2013 550i x-drive M sport
In the past 10 years I've owned an E39 M5 (2000) and an E60 M3 (2008). Just sold the M3 and got a 2013 550i x-drive M sport carbon black. This car is night and day different - it's bigger and far more comfortable inside. I did bump up things a bit by adding Dinan S2 performance chip, suspension, and free flow exhaust - so now not only much better comfort inside but also a lot more torque and hp than the predecessors I've owned. The only thing I miss from my M3 (which I loved) was the DCT. I was in market for a high performance AWD and looked at Audi S7 and the RS5. The BMW was a far far better value in my view.
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  #48  
Old 02-23-2013, 06:35 PM
nirvana19 nirvana19 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Love that pic. The E60 so seems like the odd duck. If you took it out, the lineage would look very evolutionary.

I feel like actually a lot of the F10's aesthetic inspiration came from the E34 as much as the E39. I feel it has the "grace" of the E39, but lots of things like the L shaped taillights and most notably the Hofmeister Kink are very E34 inspired. Namely the fact that not since the E34 has any BMW had such a strongly penned Hofmeister Kink, as if BMW is sticking it to all those copycats who apply the Hof Kink on especially FWD cars by making the F10's "Kink" so dramatic, so sweeping, so stated.
Glad that I'm not the only person who sees the E34 to F10 connection - I am biased since my first car (which I still have) was an E34 but I absolutely love the parallels between the designs of the two vehicles separated by wholly two decades. I did have a brief E39 stint, and strongly agree that the F10 looks more like a successor to the E39 than the E60.

I know there are many E39 owners who also have F10s but I have a feeling I am one of very few F10 owners who also owns an E34.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:41 PM
Elmanzah Elmanzah is offline
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Originally Posted by nirvana19 View Post
Glad that I'm not the only person who sees the E34 to F10 connection - I am biased since my first car (which I still have) was an E34 but I absolutely love the parallels between the designs of the two vehicles separated by wholly two decades. I did have a brief E39 stint, and strongly agree that the F10 looks more like a successor to the E39 than the E60.

I know there are many E39 owners who also have F10s but I have a feeling I am one of very few F10 owners who also owns an E34.
I owned a 95 540i and loved that car. I liked the arm rests that were pivoted right to the seat. It was however VERY Unreliable.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:18 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
I have been an engineer most of my life (I now quintuple as engineer, product manager, designer, c-level exec, and bimmerfest liaison) and I know exactly why you are probably overlooked: being an engineer, you probably wear jeans and a T-shirt that is frayed around the neck!

I know. I've been there. LOL!

Now, I make sure I drive my nicest vehicle and wear 12 layers of clothing with a handkerchief in my pocket and a scarf around my neck so I look like I'm straight off the cover of GQ and now I am only overlooked 50% of the time!
Good stuff here. Women do a better job of dressing their social class better than we men do.
Whether shopping for a luxury car or upscale clothes it's always a good idea to dress up and not down. People snap to attention when I arrive in my business suit.
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