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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 02-27-2013, 06:36 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
they dont come on base audis or mercedes either.
My 2001 Acura TL came with xenons standard. At that time it raised my hopes that other manufacturers would follow Honda's lead as it made me a believer of the safety great improvements. It didn't happen, but at least my grandson is now getting this car from his dad.
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  #27  
Old 02-27-2013, 06:46 PM
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I would suggest doing a retrofit. The Retrofit Source's prices are fair enough, and the guys over there are super helpful and are out to help you get what you want, not your life savings.
Just please don't put HID's in the bowls without getting projectors along with them if you decide to do it.
-Happy TRS repeat customer
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2013, 07:28 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
Actually the 3-Series, as with the competition (Audi A4 and Mercedes C-Class) are $37,000 cars (actually only $32,000) that can be made $50,000 cars if the owner so wishes.

The fact that you can add stuff to the base $32,000 car does not suddenly make it a $50,000 car. The underpinnings is still a mere $32,000 car with $18,000 worth of stuff added.

All my Audi and VW cars have HID lights. They are normally added as part of a higher level package. The BMW does not have HID lights - it was a floor model and even with the higher packages on the BMW (Premium and Technology), it did not include HID lights. The regular lights on the BMW are not quite up to it. Skimping on the basic safety items and treating lighting as optional accessories like jewelry is a shame.
BMW does not design a 3 Series with a tiny LCD screen, leatherette seating, and halogens. That's not what they're about. Until the 320i is released, BMW has no answer to compete with the $29,000 luxury pricepoint, so they've allowed their car to be de-featured for those who can't afford the real thing.

What you need to wrap your brain around is that BMW is a premium luxury brand and can command top-dollar for what it sells. A BMW is supposed to be $10,000 more expensive than an Audi because an Audi is just a rebadged Volkswagen. Audi needs to layer on gobs of options because its competing with itself. Same for Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, and the like.

A BMW isn't some $37,000 car. It's practically awful in that configuration. It's a best-in-class $50,000 luxury car with cutting-edge design, handling, and technology. Audi needs to start with a $25,000 Passat and build upwards; BMW can start with a $50,000 and build downwards. That's the benefit of years of brand management and fantastic build quality. You get a premium for the badge.

BJ
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2013, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
It would be nice if xenons were included but I guess we can't have everything to keep the base price competetive. I've always bought cars by the "bang for the buck" process. Or like buying the cheapest house in a nice neighborhood. I always appreciate your comments BJ but you have to be the only person on earth that thinks a super loaded car like yours should be entry level for all. Maybe there is some rational to that thought now that I think about it? I'd probably be stuck in a VW GLI Autobahn if the world was according to BJ! Regardless, don't be surprised if BMW sends you a huge gift basket of imported German delicacies in gratitude!
All I'm saying is that because BMW is such a well-regarded status symbol it can command a higher price. VW is Timex. Omega is Audi. Rolex is BMW. They're all fine watches, only one brand is worth the extra money to those who can afford it.

If you look at the time and effort invested in the likes of the Technology, Premium, Lighting, and Handling packages as well as the different Lines, the F30 is not some stripper with gobs of options. Instead, it's a fully loaded car, built and engineered that way, that can be deconstructed for those who can't afford it's $50,000 price tag.

You yourself spend $4,000 for the M-Sport line. That's awesome. But because of your decision to choose cosmetics over function, you passed on the $900 Lighting package. BMW didn't withhold the xenons from you. They were included in the $52,000 version of your car, but you chose to remove them. That's the proper perspective. Nothing wrong with that either. Puts more people into BMW's.

BJ
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2013, 07:42 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by mrrrkva View Post
Paying $4000 just to get lights is ridiculous. I didnt like the Premium package (I think you have to get the premium package for the privilege of paying $900 for lights). The dealerships cant even tell the difference between leather and leatherette, and those packages REALLY depreciate. Plus with the my2013, I got the garage door opener and the memory power seats.
The Premium package is no longer a prerequisite for the Lighting package.

$900 is all that stands in the way of the right lighting for the car. Similarly, the BMW Assist w/Enhanced Bluetooth and USB is only $650. These are the two options most whined-about when disappointed owners get their cars and realize they can't do certain things.

When you buy the $50,000 version as BMW intended, no one thinks about these things. It only affects those who choose to deconstruct a 3 Series for the sake of being in a BMW. You get all these goodies in a $39,000 Acura. Can't get those goodies in a $39,000 3 Series. Life isn't fair. You pay more for luxury brands. You want the handling and status of a BMW, pay the price. You want value and gobs of features, see your local Infiniti dealer.

BJ
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Last edited by boltjaM3s; 02-27-2013 at 07:43 PM.
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  #31  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:09 PM
hellosopo hellosopo is offline
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Originally Posted by finaloption View Post
make sure you guys never go over the speed limit either

i've used them for a few years and they're totally fine. i doubt any cop is going to pull you over and inspect your lights to make sure they're DOT approved

research a little bit and you will find that these are pretty commonly suggested & widely popular
Whether or not the cops stop you, high output lights in a reflector headlamp assembly are majorly annoying to other drivers on the road.
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  #32  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:15 PM
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kobechrome kobechrome is offline
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Originally Posted by HugH View Post
My 2001 Acura TL came with xenons standard. At that time it raised my hopes that other manufacturers would follow Honda's lead as it made me a believer of the safety great improvements. It didn't happen, but at least my grandson is now getting this car from his dad.
Really? My 2003 TL came with HID headlights standard. What 2001 version did you have? We had the same body style (1999-2003).
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  #33  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:17 PM
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BJ, I'm convinced that your favorite flavor of kool-aid is BMW. While you're sipping on some from your roundel mug look up the words "option" and "standard" in the dictionary. Have a good day.
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  #34  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:18 PM
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kobechrome kobechrome is offline
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Originally Posted by HugH View Post
My 2001 Acura TL came with xenons standard. At that time it raised my hopes that other manufacturers would follow Honda's lead as it made me a believer of the safety great improvements. It didn't happen, but at least my grandson is now getting this car from his dad.
Really? My 2003 TL came with HID headlights standard. 2001 was the same body style. Unless you had an aftermarket mod I'm fairly certain both the TL and type-S both came with HID standard.
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  #35  
Old 02-27-2013, 09:51 PM
dsackman dsackman is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
BMW does not design a 3 Series with a tiny LCD screen, leatherette seating, and halogens. That's not what they're about. Until the 320i is released, BMW has no answer to compete with the $29,000 luxury pricepoint, so they've allowed their car to be de-featured for those who can't afford the real thing.

What you need to wrap your brain around is that BMW is a premium luxury brand and can command top-dollar for what it sells. A BMW is supposed to be $10,000 more expensive than an Audi because an Audi is just a rebadged Volkswagen. Audi needs to layer on gobs of options because its competing with itself. Same for Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, and the like.

A BMW isn't some $37,000 car. It's practically awful in that configuration. It's a best-in-class $50,000 luxury car with cutting-edge design, handling, and technology. Audi needs to start with a $25,000 Passat and build upwards; BMW can start with a $50,000 and build downwards. That's the benefit of years of brand management and fantastic build quality. You get a premium for the badge.

BJ

You are not very knowledgeable and quite delusional...



.

Last edited by dsackman; 02-27-2013 at 09:53 PM.
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  #36  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:25 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
Really? My 2003 TL came with HID headlights standard. What 2001 version did you have? We had the same body style (1999-2003).
That's exactly way I said, the car came with xenon = HID headlamps.

Last edited by HugH; 02-27-2013 at 10:28 PM.
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  #37  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:32 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
Really? My 2003 TL came with HID headlights standard. What 2001 version did you have? We had the same body style (1999-2003).
There were only two versions. I believe they were the TL and TLS with more hp. Can't remember exactly, but I had the TL, the lower power and lower cost.

Varieties of HID lamp include:
Mercury-vapor lamps
Metal-halide (MH) lamps
Ceramic MH lamps
Sodium-vapor lamps
Xenon short-arc lamps
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by HugH View Post
There were only two versions. I believe they were the TL and TLS with more hp. Can't remember exactly, but I had the TL, the lower power and lower cost.

Varieties of HID lamp include:
Mercury-vapor lamps
Metal-halide (MH) lamps
Ceramic MH lamps
Sodium-vapor lamps
Xenon short-arc lamps
Ok - I didn't realize our HID headlights were xenons on the TL. If they were were, they were cheap-ass xenons. I hated those headlights.
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  #39  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:38 AM
HugH HugH is offline
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Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
Ok - I didn't realize our HID headlights were xenons on the TL. If they were were, they were cheap-ass xenons. I hated those headlights.
I loved them in mine. In fact, so much so that I have ensured all of my following 3 cars also had xenons.

At the end of lease, my son picked up the option to purchase since I only had 25,000 miles and the car was in almost new condition.

He still has the car and his wife always remarks that she wishes her Lexus SUV had those lights. My grandson will be getting his driver's license and will inherit the Acura.

Last edited by HugH; 02-28-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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  #40  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:58 AM
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kobechrome kobechrome is offline
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Originally Posted by HugH View Post
I loved them in mine. In fact, so much so that I have ensured all of my following 3 cars also had xenons.

At the end of lease, my son picked up the option to purchase since I only had 25,000 miles and the car was in almost new condition.

He still has the car and his wife always remarks that she wishes her Lexus SUV had those lights. My grandson will be getting his driver's license and will inherit the Acura.
Glad you had a good experience. My 2003 TL was somewhat of a lemon. Transmission went at 95k and dealer would not cover it. All sorts of issues with the engine after 120k. We finally got rid of it this year at around 170k. I know its not fair to judge a brand from one experience, but I won't buy an Acura again.... ever.
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  #41  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:21 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
Glad you had a good experience. My 2003 TL was somewhat of a lemon. Transmission went at 95k and dealer would not cover it. All sorts of issues with the engine after 120k. We finally got rid of it this year at around 170k. I know its not fair to judge a brand from one experience, but I won't buy an Acura again.... ever.
Reason I keep leasing cars. On a 36 month lease, BMW has $0 maintenance. Same with Volvo. Anyway, after 3 yrs of driving the same car, it gets old on me...time for something different.
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  #42  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:26 PM
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kobechrome kobechrome is offline
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Reason I keep leasing cars. On a 36 month lease, BMW has $0 maintenance. Same with Volvo. Anyway, after 3 yrs of driving the same car, it gets old on me...time for something different.
Agree - and thats why my current F30 is leased
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  #43  
Old 02-28-2013, 05:41 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by BentZero View Post
BJ, I'm convinced that your favorite flavor of kool-aid is BMW. While you're sipping on some from your roundel mug look up the words "option" and "standard" in the dictionary. Have a good day.
Ask yourself, would the most expensive luxury car in its segment release a vehicle without a full-sized LCD, xenons, and leather and intend for it to be purchased for $37,000 or less?

Of course not.

Unlike other brands, BMW does not have a step-down brand from which to dip in the well twice. They are not Acura with their Honda. They are not Lexus with their Toyota. They are not Audi with their Volkswagen. As a result, they need to do something different. They need to allow people on a tight budget to get into their version of an Accord, and to do that they need to allow those people to delete a ton of luxury features to accomplish that goal.

BMW sells tons of 3 Series for a reason. It's two cars in one. It's a $50,000 best-in-class luxury car and a $37,000 stripper for the status-conscious. Nothing wrong with that.

BJ
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  #44  
Old 02-28-2013, 05:41 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
You are not very knowledgeable and quite delusional...
If you want to debate the argument, fine.

The personal attack is not warranted.

BJ
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  #45  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:31 PM
sayzar sayzar is offline
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for me the xenon light was a must, but paying $50 grand on a 328 is insane, for 50k i would had set it up for the 335 sport line that would had ran around 47k. on anther note Audi is VW Acura is Honda Lexus is Toyota Benz is Benz and BMW IS JUST OLD PLAIN BMW
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  #46  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:22 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
When you buy the $50,000 version as BMW intended, no one thinks about these things. It only affects those who choose to deconstruct a 3 Series for the sake of being in a BMW.
BMW intends to attract a wide range of buyers for the F30 3-Series by offering a multitude of configurations in terms of powertrains, suspension tuning, and various frills. You alluded to this in post #43.

As such, a customer seeking an F30 configuration at the $39k price point is not "deconstructing" the car in any way. In the U.S. market, there are numerous combinations at or below $39k that potential F30 owners should find quite satisfactory.

I'm planning to order a 320i with the vaunted Lighting Package discussed in this thread, among other options. With European Delivery, it will cost me approximately $34k (including taxes and ancillary fees), plus airfare and accommodations in Munich and the surrounding area which I estimate at an additional $1500 - $1700.

It's not as if BMW will present me with a knock-down kit when I arrive at the Welt and ask that I assemble the car myself because my chosen configuration is well under $39k...

Last edited by gkr778; 02-28-2013 at 11:25 PM.
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  #47  
Old 03-01-2013, 06:46 AM
dsackman dsackman is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
If you want to debate the argument, fine.

The personal attack is not warranted.

BJ

It is not a personal attack. It is a statement of fact. I would gladly debate that.


.
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  #48  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:24 AM
ggalanis ggalanis is offline
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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
It is not a personal attack. It is a statement of fact. I would gladly debate that.


.
I agree with BJ about the whole deconstruction thing.
You should not be getting what most people consider a luxury brand car and strip out the luxury from it to save $. You get the options you want, skip on options/packages you don’t want.
If you can’t afford what you want in that car, you probably are looking at the wrong class of car.
I always tell people to look at what they can afford/willing to spend on a car.
Then once you have that number in hand, look at cars that when configured with all the options you want, are at or under that price point.

If you can get past the badge on the car, you will be happier with a loaded “less expensive to start” car than a stripped down expensive brand car.
If you can’t get past the badge, and place a lot of value in it, then you’ll love your stripped down 3 series… But then don’t complain when people rolling around in a Kia have more features in their car than you do.

GG
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  #49  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:37 AM
dsackman dsackman is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Ask yourself, would the most expensive luxury car in its segment release a vehicle without a full-sized LCD, xenons, and leather and intend for it to be purchased for $37,000 or less?
The 3-series is released to the $32,000 market with the option of upgrading it to someone who is in the $50,000 market. The base car is still the same and the additional $18,000 is optional. I can assure you that the car is not designed for the $50,000 market and then stripped of content.

You can buy an Audi A4 for as low as $32,000 and an S4 model well appointed gets close to $60,000. That gives you multiple cars in one - the entry-level to something that approaches the exotic, but you know what, that $60,000 model is still just an A4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Unlike other brands, BMW does not have a step-down brand from which to dip in the well twice. They are not Acura with their Honda. They are not Lexus with their Toyota. They are not Audi with their Volkswagen. As a result, they need to do something different. They need to allow people on a tight budget to get into their version of an Accord, and to do that they need to allow those people to delete a ton of luxury features to accomplish that goal.
Conveniently you forgot about the MINI. That is the "step-down" brand you are referring to. You also conveniently forgot about the 1-series which is a step-down from the 3-series. Where your argument falls flat is that Honda, Toyota and Nissan created the up-market brands to penetrate different markets. Audi was a stand-alone company and VW purchased it. Audi is not merely a higher-end brand of a lower end car.
In some markets the Honda Civic were sold alongside the Mercedes C-class to augment the product line (before the A- and B-Class).
There is a lot of co-marketing and co-opetition in the various markets and we are all benefitting from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
BMW sells tons of 3 Series for a reason. It's two cars in one. It's a $50,000 best-in-class luxury car and a $37,000 stripper for the status-conscious. Nothing wrong with that.
BJ
A well appointed Accord or Camry goes for around $33,000 and it is as well appointed as a $50,000 3-series, in some aspects even superior. It is two cars in one. It is merely filling a market niche and I can assure you that Honda sells many more $25,000 Accords than the $33,000 version.

Most other (non-BMW) manufacturers benefit from cooperation and have elected to create different brands and sharing underpinnings. In the European market the BMW (the same car we drive here in the USA) is seen as a common every-day car. The Audi is the more expensive and up-market brand. Purely marketing and perception of people.

As a final point, Audi belongs to VW as are notable companies such as Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti and there is a lot of technological cross-pollination happening to provide us, the consumer with the best technologies at the best possible prices (or the best profits for the company ). BMW elects not to use outside technologies and suffers from it.

BJ, you know, you should step out of the Walmart parking lot sometimes. There is a whole wide world out there outside of BMW. I know that in a Walmart parking lot the 3-series may be "best-in-class" and can cost as much as $50,000, but underneath it is still the $32,000 motor car. Sorry, I just had to add that jab


.
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  #50  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:40 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Let's not forget, you can option out of a 3-series, not to $50k, but easily cross $60k.
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'13 M-Sport 328i 6mt FOR SALE


E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ blower@13lbs of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: ForgeStar F14 19's summer-OZ Superleggera 17's winter/Rogue Catback/Integral Audio/AFE intake scoop/BMS stage 1
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