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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:26 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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N20 tuning, new record

Per N54tech, this was announced today!

They are beta testing stage 2 for the N20 right now.

With no hardware modifications, just the tune running on E85 they cracked 300whp and 350lbs of torque


I am anxious to see the LOWER numbers coming soon on 93 octane as E85 is not around here much.

They also noted that the stock airbox is more than sufficient and intake manufacturers claims are likely fudged.

It will be interesting to see where this goes with meth, downpipes, full exhausts, intercoolers etc.
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Per N54tech, this was announced today!

They are beta testing stage 2 for the N20 right now.

With no hardware modifications, just the tune running on E85 they cracked 300whp and 350lbs of torque


I am anxious to see the LOWER numbers coming soon on 93 octane as E85 is not around here much.

They also noted that the stock airbox is more than sufficient and intake manufacturers claims are likely fudged.

It will be interesting to see where this goes with meth, downpipes, full exhausts, intercoolers etc.
wouldnt you get more power with 93 than 85?
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:02 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
wouldnt you get more power with 93 than 85?
No, E85 is a much more energy rich fuel source which turbo engines seem to love.

I am hoping for 27o-275whp on 93 with stage 2, then 300whp with a couple of bolt ons.
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
wouldnt you get more power with 93 than 85?
E85 is similar to running 100-105 octane gasoline.

Gas mileage usually suffers while using alcohol based gasses (E85) because of the burn rate of alcohol, but if tuned correctly, you will make more power.

The car above was obviously tuned correctly. Nice job!
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
No, E85 is a much more energy rich fuel source which turbo engines seem to love.

I am hoping for 27o-275whp on 93 with stage 2, then 300whp with a couple of bolt ons.
e85 is cheaper than 93 right? if it gives more power can we use it on stock engine?
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:49 AM
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e85 is not more energy-rich than 93 octane. In fact if you were to run the two side-by-side in naturally aspirated motors operating with similar parameters, the e85 setup would require about 30% more fuel, and would produce lower power. (Yes, tuning the e85 operating parameters separately would yield a bit more power than the 93 octane setup, but still with substantially more fuel.)

The benefit to e85 comes in the fact that it is very resistant to knock (FreddyG's comment is correct, in that it has an aparrant octane rating around 100); when used in a turbocharged (or supercharged) application, this allows you to run more boost and timing, which allows you to put more fuel into the cylinder, which results in greater torque and power.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:52 AM
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Currently e85 production is subsidized by the US Federal Government to the tune of about $1 per gallon. In order to run it on your N55 you'd need a new tune (JB, AccessPort, etc) and possibly some minor upgrades to the fueling system. The numbers I've seen for an N55 running e85 are quite impressive (+150 lb/ft tq and +100 hp).

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
e85 is cheaper than 93 right? if it gives more power can we use it on stock engine?
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:55 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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Originally Posted by mrMTB View Post
e85 is not more energy-rich than 93 octane. In fact if you were to run the two side-by-side in naturally aspirated motors operating with similar parameters, the e85 setup would require about 30% more fuel, and would produce lower power. (Yes, tuning the e85 operating parameters separately would yield a bit more power than the 93 octane setup, but still with substantially more fuel.)

The benefit to e85 comes in the fact that it is very resistant to knock (FreddyG's comment is correct, in that it has an aparrant octane rating around 100); when used in a turbocharged (or supercharged) application, this allows you to run more boost and timing, which allows you to put more fuel into the cylinder, which results in greater torque and power.
Sorry, you gave the more eloquent answer. I used energy rich just to explain more power, but yes, as you noted it comes at the expense of consumption.

My friend had an e85 tuned red turbo Evo 8. It was downright scary, ten second stock appearing street car. But he had local e85.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:19 PM
mrMTB mrMTB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
My friend had an e85 tuned red turbo Evo 8. It was downright scary, ten second stock appearing street car. But he had local e85.
My prior car was an Evo X - 400 lb/ft of torque and 385 awhp with only a tune, upgraded injectors and fuel pump, and e85 on a Mustang dyno.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:05 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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My prior car was an Evo X - 400 lb/ft of torque and 385 awhp with only a tune, upgraded injectors and fuel pump, and e85 on a Mustang dyno.
Yeah, I think he was in the mid 4's on a Mustang.

It was a monster, trapping comfortably over 120.

But the quality stunk, clear coat on the carbon of the wing peeled, Brembos chipped and peeled, interior fell apart.
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:41 PM
mrMTB mrMTB is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
But the quality stunk, clear coat on the carbon of the wing peeled, Brembos chipped and peeled, interior fell apart.
Yeah, the Evo has been described as a $15k car with a $20k power and drive train. I'm looking for another Evo to turn into a dedicated track car- I'm appreciating the improved interior space of the e89 perhaps too much to consider living in an Evo as my daily driver.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:04 AM
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I know that on the Evo you needed to change a bunch of parts in the fuel system to run E85. I wonder about the f30?
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:24 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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I know that on the Evo you needed to change a bunch of parts in the fuel system to run E85. I wonder about the f30?
Nope
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mrMTB View Post
My prior car was an Evo X - 400 lb/ft of torque and 385 awhp with only a tune, upgraded injectors and fuel pump, and e85 on a Mustang dyno.
Me too...i was putting down 330/350 with just cams, exhaust, FMIC - for an Evo VIII, was epic fast.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Per N54tech, this was announced today!

They are beta testing stage 2 for the N20 right now.

With no hardware modifications, just the tune running on E85 they cracked 300whp and 350lbs of torque


I am anxious to see the LOWER numbers coming soon on 93 octane as E85 is not around here much.

They also noted that the stock airbox is more than sufficient and intake manufacturers claims are likely fudged.

It will be interesting to see where this goes with meth, downpipes, full exhausts, intercoolers etc.
Over at the ATS sites a tuner reported higher gain with the 2.0 stage 1 tune, I recall 325hp and 330tq on E85, that was two months ago. Though different dynos have different readings, usually I only look at the before and after differences.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:43 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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Over at the ATS sites a tuner reported higher gain with the 2.0 stage 1 tune, I recall 325hp and 330tq on E85, that was two months ago. Though different dynos have different readings, usually I only look at the before and after differences.
Considering the n20 dynos as much if not more stock than the ATS, if that is a bone stock hardware figure to the wheels, it sounds almost too good to be true...28whp more, but 20ft lbs less.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:56 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Considering the n20 dynos as much if not more stock than the ATS, if that is a bone stock hardware figure to the wheels, it sounds almost too good to be true...28whp more, but 20ft lbs less.
Bone stock. I think they are working on bolt ons to work on stage 2. There is also a feature called "smart octane" that will auto adjust for octane. It will run on 87 and gain 30 each for hp and tq.

Last edited by dtc100; 03-01-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:07 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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Bone stock. I think they are working on bolt ons to work on stage 2. There is also a feature called "smart octane" that will auto adjust for octane. It will run on 87 and gain 30 each for hp and tq.
Sounds cool!
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:15 AM
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Sounds cool!
I am not sure if tunability has to do with how open the manufacture is with their ECU code. I know with the E90 N52, the German tuners who have greater access to BMW codes have a huge advantage over the US tuners. They could tune the N/A I6 to 290+ hp with all the bolt ons.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:24 AM
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I am not sure if tunability has to do with how open the manufacture is with their ECU code. I know with the E90 N52, the German tuners who have greater access to BMW codes have a huge advantage over the US tuners. They could tune the N/A I6 to 290+ hp with all the bolt ons.
The oems have made the cars harder and harder to crack over the past few years.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:25 AM
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....and there goes the 335i for good.

BJ
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:33 AM
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....and there goes the 335i for good.

BJ
Lol, yes and noo.

Same tunes are out for the 335 which can net 360whp and 400+tq.

The 335 can always do more than the 328 mod for mod due to the larger displacement.

But it's clear, if BMW wanted to, they could offer a 328 with 335 power stock and warrantied.

If BMW takes the leash off the 335, then they can let the 328 open up to it's capabilities.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Lol, yes and noo.

Same tunes are out for the 335 which can net 360whp and 400+tq.

The 335 can always do more than the 328 mod for mod due to the larger displacement.

But it's clear, if BMW wanted to, they could offer a 328 with 335 power stock and warrantied.

If BMW takes the leash off the 335, then they can let the 328 open up to it's capabilities.
The 328i and 335i both sit on a suspension that maxes out at 300HP.

Since both the 328i and the 335i both now have 300HP, the lighter and better balanced car wins.

It's a 328i world. You are an early adopter, ahead of the curve, you are.

BJ
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:57 AM
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One thing I wish BMW do is lowering the price of their performance suspension cost of $6,500. It lowers the car by 20mm, 10mm more than sport and M sport suspensions.

To put it in perspective, Porsche offers similar suspension upgrades on the 911, the first tier lowers the body by 10mm at a little over $2k, the second tier lowers the body by 20mm for a little under $3k. Not only that, the lowered suspensions also come with PASM included, similar to (but more advanced than) the BMW DHP. BMW charges $1k for DHP separately unless you order a base model with DHP only, which gets 10mm lowered body also.

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Old 03-01-2013, 10:00 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is online now
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The 328i and 335i both sit on a suspension that maxes out at 300HP.

Since both the 328i and the 335i both now have 300HP, the lighter and better balanced car wins.

It's a 328i world. You are an early adopter, ahead of the curve, you are.

BJ
Well yeah, 350-400-500hp just highlights the softer suspension. Upgrading creates a snowball affect.

300-350hp in the 328 with proper tires, 335 bigger brakes, and bigger sway bars and stiffer springs and struts...pretty damn ideal. That's going to be my setup.

It won't sound the same as the 335, but it will have 150lbs less on the nose. Everything has it's compromises.

I am just looking forward to taking this car where I have it in my mind.
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