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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-27-2013, 06:40 PM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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ready to pull the trigger

on a 2010 528i prem,sport,nav,zenons, plus. It has 31000 miles, 9 months on factory warranty, just about perfect in every way that I can see. They want 33.7 for it I have them down a little and up a little on my trade. What should I look out for on my long test drive on fri. What are tell tale signs of a leaky moonroof? thanks for your opinions.......
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2013, 07:33 PM
pjinca pjinca is offline
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Leaky sunroof? Not something that typically goes wrong in a 3 year old car, but if it leaks the water spots will appear on the roof liner near the rear window inside the car and run down the c-pillar. Not for nothing, but I got my 2008 550 fully loaded, with 20k miles a month ago for $32k.
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[B]2008 550 - Carbon Black/Black - M-sport, Cold Weather, Premium, NAV, Comfort Access, Logic 7 (LOADED, every option except night vision)

Previous 3 cars (the 550 is my 38th car):
2005 530i - Prem, Sport, NAV
2006 Jeep SRT-8
2003 Infiniti G35 coupe
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:57 AM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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Thanks for the reply this is also cpo so that does add some value, no? Checking around on the net it seems in the ballpark anyway....
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:10 PM
pjinca pjinca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catchabigone View Post
Thanks for the reply this is also cpo so that does add some value, no? Checking around on the net it seems in the ballpark anyway....
CPO adds value in that the BMW dealer has, supposedly, checked the car thoroughly and BMW has decided to stand behind the quality of the car. However, I have heard of some CPO owners finding out that their cars were previously involved in crashes and sold by less than scrupulous BMW dealers. Also, unless YOU are the one that gets the CPO car - meaning you are the second owner, then you have no way of telling of the car is good or not, a lot could have happened since BMW certified it. By the way, CPO does NOT cover electronics, so NAV, radio, bluetooth, CD player/changer, even the sunroof and seats - not covered.
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[B]2008 550 - Carbon Black/Black - M-sport, Cold Weather, Premium, NAV, Comfort Access, Logic 7 (LOADED, every option except night vision)

Previous 3 cars (the 550 is my 38th car):
2005 530i - Prem, Sport, NAV
2006 Jeep SRT-8
2003 Infiniti G35 coupe
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:14 PM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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I will be the second owner, and I do realize that some things are not covered. I will be looking into an extended that does cover electronics i addition to the cpo. If not, the wife and I have decided to make a warranty bank account and put a car payment in every month to cover repairs since we will be a two BMW family(e60 and an e92). If we don't use it for the cars we will go on one hell of a road trip!! I am getting the 528I because I figure less problems minus the turbo. At my age it is plenty fast enough. I won't be racing it anywhere or anyone. Is there anything that you can think of that I should look for or check. this is my first 5. My e92 has been a trouble free cpo from the same dealer. I trust them My sales person moreso than the service dept.
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:36 PM
pjinca pjinca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catchabigone View Post
I will be the second owner, and I do realize that some things are not covered. I will be looking into an extended that does cover electronics i addition to the cpo. If not, the wife and I have decided to make a warranty bank account and put a car payment in every month to cover repairs since we will be a two BMW family(e60 and an e92). If we don't use it for the cars we will go on one hell of a road trip!! I am getting the 528I because I figure less problems minus the turbo. At my age it is plenty fast enough. I won't be racing it anywhere or anyone. Is there anything that you can think of that I should look for or check. this is my first 5. My e92 has been a trouble free cpo from the same dealer. I trust them My sales person moreso than the service dept.
Nothing that I recall, I haven't heard of a lot of issues with the 528. As long as you have a relationship with the dealer then you shouldn't have an issue. I am not saying CPO is worthless, but it does have it's limits. If you're buying a CPO car it is a good idea to take the money you would've spent on another warranty and have some savings set aside. I had to replace the CCC (NAV) unit, TCU (Bluetooth) Unit on my old car. The dealer quoted me $2800 for the CCC and $1400 for the TCU, I got a CCC refurb unit (they don't make them new anymore) for $650, a TCU for $98 and had everything installed and coded for a total of $1100 at an indy shop. If you should have issues that the warranty doesn't cover, shop around, get the best deals you can on parts, then find a good indy shop to do the work and you'll be fine. You might even still be able to take that roadtrip when all is said and done.
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[B]2008 550 - Carbon Black/Black - M-sport, Cold Weather, Premium, NAV, Comfort Access, Logic 7 (LOADED, every option except night vision)

Previous 3 cars (the 550 is my 38th car):
2005 530i - Prem, Sport, NAV
2006 Jeep SRT-8
2003 Infiniti G35 coupe
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:12 AM
kc1953 kc1953 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catchabigone View Post
on a 2010 528i prem,sport,nav,zenons, plus. It has 31000 miles, 9 months on factory warranty, just about perfect in every way that I can see. They want 33.7 for it I have them down a little and up a little on my trade. What should I look out for on my long test drive on fri. What are tell tale signs of a leaky moonroof? thanks for your opinions.......
Price seems a bit high for a 528i, even with CPO. I would think $28-30k is more in the ball park. Also, the normally aspirated 6 in the 528i is a bit of a slug for that size car. Acceleration is pretty limited unless you have the tranny in sport mode. A CPO 535i would have replaced the high pressure fuel pumps and I believe BMW warrants the engine for 100k miles. Think about a 535i.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:16 AM
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dwlink dwlink is online now
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If you can wait a day I can run my little regression program to tell you average market prices for your area - just need a zip code. Although right now I can tell you 33.7 is way high. I'd expect something more like high 20's even for CA where prices are generally inflated compared to national averages.

CPO typically adds $1600-$2000 to the average fair market price. Fairly insensitive by region from what I've seen so far. FYI, CPO does not include maintenance and requires a $50 deductible for all repair work.
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2004 BMW 530i -Titanium Silver -Grey Dakota -Dark Poplar -Premium -Sport -Cold Weather -Xenons -Heated Rear Seats -Active Steering -Logic 7 -Sirius
2010 Lexus RX350 AWD (hers) -Smokey Granite Mica -Black -Premium -Comfort -Nav -Tow Prep -Premium Sound -Wood Steering Wheel/Shifter

Last edited by dwlink; 03-01-2013 at 07:18 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:04 AM
Cattani Cattani is offline
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I'm with the group on this one....that does sound too high for a 528, even with the CPO.

Besides..........550's are faster.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:12 AM
Serpens Serpens is offline
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OP, given the options your car is in the ballpark but I would nudge it down another grand or two. My car listed for slightly cheaper than that last year with the same options, but I got them to knock of $1500 and some additional coverage for the electronics via extended coverage of the CPO warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc1953 View Post
Also, the normally aspirated 6 in the 528i is a bit of a slug for that size car. Acceleration is pretty limited unless you have the tranny in sport mode. A CPO 535i would have replaced the high pressure fuel pumps and I believe BMW warrants the engine for 100k miles. Think about a 535i.
On the contrary, the power isn't really bad. My other vehicles are extremely fast but the 528i doesn't ever have me wanting for more on my daily highway commute. The 535i is going to require more maintenance, guaranteed, but is indeed much faster. 3.0 NA I6 is a solid motor and if you're fine with after test driving it, go for it. Be aware you will get smoked by V6 Accords/Camrys and the newest crop of minivans will give you a run for your money.

I have 0 regrets buying my 528i- if only my other cars would behave as well as it does.
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2013, 12:23 PM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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Serpens your last sentence is what I am hoping for, but aren't we all, Service records show maint only no repairs to vehicle at all, I am hoping this trend continues.

and I don't mind being beaten off the line by the old lady in the Accord, They are surrounded by hard plastic not me, and hopefully I am never in a hurry again and besides I will be in the lap of luxury in my 20 way seats. I am hearing of law suits because of back damage due to honda's seats.

Zip is 95589 and I put off the pick-up until tomorrow.

Man there are so many lightly used BMW's around how the heck does one make up ones mind. I would think that great deals should be everywhere. I just got tired of looking and they are all far away because I don't live near ANYTHING. Closest dealers are 2 hours north and 3 hours south. It becomes a major trip to go and look at cars. But the ocean is out my back door and salmon season opens soon!!!!

I hate to feel like I settled for a car because I am lazy, but this one is as nice as any I looked at, it's at the closest dealer(previous purchase), has what I want on it, I just don't want to find a better deal AFTER I buy this one.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2013, 12:23 PM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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double post sorry.

Last edited by catchabigone; 03-01-2013 at 12:25 PM. Reason: double post
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2013, 12:26 PM
pjinca pjinca is offline
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LOL, best advice? After you buy your car, stop looking. Enjoy your new ride and enjoy the scenery in your area, lol, almost sounds like you live near Carmel - my Aunt lives in Carmel, about 2 blocks off the beach.
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[B]2008 550 - Carbon Black/Black - M-sport, Cold Weather, Premium, NAV, Comfort Access, Logic 7 (LOADED, every option except night vision)

Previous 3 cars (the 550 is my 38th car):
2005 530i - Prem, Sport, NAV
2006 Jeep SRT-8
2003 Infiniti G35 coupe
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2013, 01:08 PM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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On a car of this age, you're looking for repaint and/or body work.

What is the condition of the paint? Lots of swirlmarks?

Mechanically you should be fine, so you're looking for any signs of repaint.

You don't want to be buying a car that had body work at 31k miles and $33.7K.

That car should be 100% free of any kind of body work.

If it isn't, walk away.

$33.7 is too much for a car that has been damaged or repainted.

Last edited by mrgrumpy; 03-01-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2013, 01:19 PM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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Thanks for that grump, I have to trust someone sometime, carfax is a joke sometimes, I will be looking for all factory labels. and white is tough to spot swirl marks on but I will be looking for any repaint.
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2013, 01:22 PM
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DJHomie DJHomie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catchabigone View Post
Serpens your last sentence is what I am hoping for, but aren't we all, Service records show maint only no repairs to vehicle at all, I am hoping this trend continues.

and I don't mind being beaten off the line by the old lady in the Accord, They are surrounded by hard plastic not me, and hopefully I am never in a hurry again and besides I will be in the lap of luxury in my 20 way seats. I am hearing of law suits because of back damage due to honda's seats.

Zip is 95589 and I put off the pick-up until tomorrow.

Man there are so many lightly used BMW's around how the heck does one make up ones mind. I would think that great deals should be everywhere. I just got tired of looking and they are all far away because I don't live near ANYTHING. Closest dealers are 2 hours north and 3 hours south. It becomes a major trip to go and look at cars. But the ocean is out my back door and salmon season opens soon!!!!

I hate to feel like I settled for a car because I am lazy, but this one is as nice as any I looked at, it's at the closest dealer(previous purchase), has what I want on it, I just don't want to find a better deal AFTER I buy this one.
That's always going to be the case. Like they say, just enjoy what you have, because if you keep waiting for the BETTER deal, you will be doing just that...WAITING.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2013, 01:29 PM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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Originally Posted by catchabigone View Post
Thanks for that grump, I have to trust someone sometime, carfax is a joke sometimes, I will be looking for all factory labels. and white is tough to spot swirl marks on but I will be looking for any repaint.
Don't be afraid to ask the salesperson for a complete printout of all repair work done at BMW.

CARFAX is awesome for telling you where the car spent it's life. Call the BMW dealer in that area, and give them the VIN, and they'll email you the complete record.

CARFAX is worthless for body work / repaint repairs. Run your finger along the very edge of all body panels. It should be smooth and rounded. If it feels like there's and edge or a line in the paint; it's been hit with paint.

For $33.7K, simply walk away. There is NO reason to be spending that kind of money, unless that body is the exact same thing that came out of the factory.

Last edited by mrgrumpy; 03-01-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2013, 01:36 PM
pjinca pjinca is offline
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Originally Posted by mrgrumpy View Post
Don't be afraid to ask the salesperson for a complete printout of all repair work done at BMW.

CARFAX is awesome for telling you where the car spent it's life. Call the BMW dealer in that area, and give them the VIN, and they'll email you the complete record.

CARFAX is worthless for body work / repaint repairs. Run your finger along the very edge of all body panels. It should be smooth and rounded. If it feels like there's and edge or a line in the paint. It's been hit with paint.

For $33.7K, simply walk away. There is NO reason to be spending that kind of money, unless that body is the exact same thing that come out of the factory.
Agreed, also the factory paint always has a slight orange peel effect - never perfectly smooth (which I hate), but that's a tell tale sign too. If some panels have perfectly smooth paint it's been painted before. Very few owners will go ahead and color sand a perfectly good car (something I am still debating, but I am OCD about the car's finish).
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[B]2008 550 - Carbon Black/Black - M-sport, Cold Weather, Premium, NAV, Comfort Access, Logic 7 (LOADED, every option except night vision)

Previous 3 cars (the 550 is my 38th car):
2005 530i - Prem, Sport, NAV
2006 Jeep SRT-8
2003 Infiniti G35 coupe
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2013, 02:31 PM
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dwlink dwlink is online now
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Ok so you have an interesting marketing in your zip code. I tried searching originally within 100 miles of 95589, but only found 4 E60 5 series that were a 528, 535 or 550. I extended the range to 200 miles and ended up getting 149 of which 139 were usable. Here are the results

Average error is $2200 with an explained correlation of 0.85

Here are the average market asking prices for each of the price predictors:

Base 528: $39200
Mileage depreciation: $0.1428/mile
Age depreciation relative to 2013: $1852/year
Still has original warranty: $2000
Is CPO: $2000
Is AWD: $2000
Upgrade 528 to 535: $3850
Upgrade 528 to 550: $8000
Has Sport Package: $860

Premium and cold weather packages had very little correlation as did some of the other big ticket options such as NAV.




So here's how you'd use this model to price a car. Assume we have a 2010 535i xDrive with 30,000 miles that has the sport package that is a non-CPO.

Base 528 + Upgrade 528 to 535 - (2013-2010)*Age Depreciation - 30,000*Mileage Depreciation + Orig Warranty + AWD + Sport Package

39,200 + 3,850 - 3*1,850 - 30,000*0.1428 + 2,000 + 2,000 + 860 =$38,076

This means $38k is a very average price. Standard error of the model is $2,200 therefore I'd say an OK deal would be 1 standard error less than the average price - so about $36k.

A great deal would be 3 standard errors below average fair asking price. So using the particular example above - $32k would be a great deal on a car with similar specs in your region. Location will highly influence prices and as you'd expect, areas of greater car sales density will have a noticeable impact on reducing average asking prices. However, at the same time it will reduce the spread in prices meaning that the standard error of the model is likely to drop and something like $2-3k below average price may be a great deal (once again think used cars here - not new).

Apply the prices to the car you are shopping for an see what it predicts. This should provide you with some sense of fair market asking price so you can gauge your negotiation power. My guess is that if you take the price generated by the model and take off $5000 (very good deal) you will end up around $27-$28k.
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2015 BMW 435i GC MSport (ED Sept 29, 2014)
2004 BMW 530i -Titanium Silver -Grey Dakota -Dark Poplar -Premium -Sport -Cold Weather -Xenons -Heated Rear Seats -Active Steering -Logic 7 -Sirius
2010 Lexus RX350 AWD (hers) -Smokey Granite Mica -Black -Premium -Comfort -Nav -Tow Prep -Premium Sound -Wood Steering Wheel/Shifter

Last edited by dwlink; 03-01-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2013, 03:52 PM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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Thanks for the figures, I see you are from Philly, I grew up in East Oak Lane, Then Elkins Park, Jenkintown area....Can't wait to come back for a cheese steak at dalisandro's on Henry ave. Hopefully some softshells will be around too.
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  #21  
Old 03-01-2013, 04:02 PM
catchabigone catchabigone is offline
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not sure how this corresponds to your formula but asking was 34.700, I am down to 31000 I am happy with that I think. Math was not my best subject(remember lazy) so not sure how to plug those numbers in but I am not getting them down to 27 or 28 that is for sure.
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  #22  
Old 03-01-2013, 05:14 PM
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From your first few posts, it looks like I have all the info I need. Model says asking price should be

Base 528 - (2013-2010)*Age Depreciation - 31,000*Mileage Depreciation + Orig Warranty + CPO + Sport Package

39,200 - 3*1,850 - 31,000*0.1428 + 2,000 + 2,000 + 860 = $34,083

That's pretty damn close to 34700 given the additional options. Take off 2 standard errors for a pretty good deal and you're at $30,300 which is close to $31k.

It also really depends on how much the place paid for the car and how well their turning the inventory over. $31k seems solid - might be able to get it down to $30k with the right timing/luck. Good luck tomorrow!
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2015 BMW 435i GC MSport (ED Sept 29, 2014)
2004 BMW 530i -Titanium Silver -Grey Dakota -Dark Poplar -Premium -Sport -Cold Weather -Xenons -Heated Rear Seats -Active Steering -Logic 7 -Sirius
2010 Lexus RX350 AWD (hers) -Smokey Granite Mica -Black -Premium -Comfort -Nav -Tow Prep -Premium Sound -Wood Steering Wheel/Shifter
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  #23  
Old 03-01-2013, 06:17 PM
Mortyk Mortyk is offline
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Mein Auto: 2010 535xi
535xi

I am flying out tuesday to look at a 2010 535xi cpo nav, pdc, cold weather. I have a $500 deposit on it. It has 48k miles and was put into service 3 years ago. Well maintaned 1 owner just cpo'd 2 weeks ago. They were asking $30k, I am paying $28k. Before it I was trying to buy a 2008 535xi cpo'd for another 5 months, nav pdc, cold weather 53k miles. The lady (the second owner) was offered 20k from the dealer which I didn't know. I drove it and found it needed brakes, rotors, battery and couple of minor things. I offered her $20K on the condition we would take it the dealer for an inspection. She decided she would take the dealer offer with no problems. I found out later that the car had an extended maintenance plan good for another 5 months. Had I known, I would gladly have paid $21.5. A win win for both of us. So it was next and I found the 2010 535xi. I think in the long run I'll come out ahead with the 2010.

Good luck to you dw. Sounds good.

Last edited by Mortyk; 03-01-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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