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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 03-01-2013, 09:59 AM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Yes , Silverstar Ultras will help.

The F30 is a $50,000 German luxury car. It can be stripped down to $37,000 but it doesn't mean it should be.

BJ
I had a 328xi rental for a recent ski trip. I was shocked at how bad the headlights were. Driving mountain roads was flat out dangerous. I don't expect xenons on a stripped base model. But for $37k, I'd expect something better than my parents old 85 Celebrity.
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  #52  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:04 AM
dsackman dsackman is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Let's not forget, you can option out of a 3-series, not to $50k, but easily cross $60k.

Yes, that is right. Starting from the base car of $32,000 and adding features - some that should be standard (decent headlights), to get the vehicle you want, need, or can(not) afford.

It is the case with most vehicles/brands. It gives you the consumer the ability to tailor the car to meet their budget, status, needs or wants.

Hardly ever is there an option to de-content a car from a base model. It I always adding features from the base model.




.
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  #53  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:11 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
Yes, that is right. Starting from the base car of $32,000 and adding features - some that should be standard (decent headlights), to get the vehicle you want, need, or can(not) afford.

It is the case with most vehicles/brands. It gives you the consumer the ability to tailor the car to meet their budget, status, needs or wants.

Hardly ever is there an option to de-content a car from a base model. It I always adding features from the base model.




.
Well uniquely, in cars like the Cayman R or 911GT3, you pay more to decontent the car and pay more money to get features like radio or ac back. Gotta love it!
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  #54  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:01 AM
sayzar sayzar is offline
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BMW Audi Honda etc it's a damn car , it gets you 2 point A & B, if you can afford a $50k car then more power to you, but if your going to complain about BMW prices then maybe your looking at the wrong car.
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  #55  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:34 AM
sr5959 sr5959 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
BMW does not design a 3 Series with a tiny LCD screen, leatherette seating, and halogens. That's not what they're about. Until the 320i is released, BMW has no answer to compete with the $29,000 luxury pricepoint, so they've allowed their car to be de-featured for those who can't afford the real thing.

What you need to wrap your brain around is that BMW is a premium luxury brand and can command top-dollar for what it sells. A BMW is supposed to be $10,000 more expensive than an Audi because an Audi is just a rebadged Volkswagen. Audi needs to layer on gobs of options because its competing with itself. Same for Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, and the like.

A BMW isn't some $37,000 car. It's practically awful in that configuration. It's a best-in-class $50,000 luxury car with cutting-edge design, handling, and technology. Audi needs to start with a $25,000 Passat and build upwards; BMW can start with a $50,000 and build downwards. That's the benefit of years of brand management and fantastic build quality. You get a premium for the badge.

BJ
It's not a question of people getting the base model because they can't afford the luxury model, it's only a $2,000 option, not like it's a completely different car! In fact I had one ordered same spec/color as BJ's but I cancelled it when I saw one on a dealer lot as I couldn't stand the chrome trims/whiskers on the outside, but it was only about $45 less per month when I switched to my no-line, hardly the difference between a Ford and a Maserati!
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  #56  
Old 03-01-2013, 02:00 PM
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FreddyG FreddyG is offline
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Maybe this thread will be a good motivator for anyone sitting on the fence about the $900 headlight upgrade on the 328i (335i already has the best lights).

Every single time I drive at night, I'm amazed at how good the Xenons are. And the LED coronas look absolutely gorgeous during the day. It's a shame that the beautiful F30 can even be ordered with halogens.
Well put and I couldn't agree more.

We have a 335i F30, so I have no complaints about headlights, but I was Shocked when I found out HID's weren't standard on a BMW!

I understand that it's about making money, but 90% of the 3 series on our dealers lot were halogen and I'm spoiled by active HID's, but c'mon BMW.

Heck HID lighting is standard on Kia Optima SX's, so BMW should be ashamed of themselves.

Just my .02 and you get what you pay for!
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  #57  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:55 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by ggalanis View Post
I agree with BJ about the whole deconstruction thing.
You should not be getting what most people consider a luxury brand car and strip out the luxury from it to save $. You get the options you want, skip on options/packages you don't want.
If you can't afford what you want in that car, you probably are looking at the wrong class of car.
I always tell people to look at what they can afford/willing to spend on a car.
Then once you have that number in hand, look at cars that when configured with all the options you want, are at or under that price point.

If you can get past the badge on the car, you will be happier with a loaded "less expensive to start" car than a stripped down expensive brand car.
If you can't get past the badge, and place a lot of value in it, then you'll love your stripped down 3 series…. But then don't complain when people rolling around in a Kia have more features in their car than you do.

GG
Exactly.

$37,000 base cars only become $50,000 luxury cars by loading them.

$50,000 luxury cars only get down to $37,000 base cars by stripping them.

BMW is a luxury brand, so the elevator is heading down when it gets deconstructed, feature after feature that you expect in a luxury car get lost. Conversely, Volkswagen is a base brand, so the elevator is heading up when it's being reconstructed.

BJ
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  #58  
Old 03-01-2013, 09:08 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
The 3-series is released to the $32,000 market with the option of upgrading it to someone who is in the $50,000 market. The base car is still the same and the additional $18,000 is optional. I can assure you that the car is not designed for the $50,000 market and then stripped of content.
You couldn't be more wrong.

Luxury brands (BMW, Mercedes Benz) start from the top and allow buyers to work their way down. Base brands (Honda, Toyota) start from the bottom and force buyers to work their way up. Two different types of car philosophies, two different customers, two different strategies.

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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
You can buy an Audi A4 for as low as $32,000 and an S4 model well appointed gets close to $60,000. That gives you multiple cars in one - the entry-level to something that approaches the exotic, but you know what, that $60,000 model is still just an A4.
Take leather off a BMW, people say "eeew, no way you should be able to do that in a luxury car."

Put leather on a Honda, people say "what's the point of a feature like that on a cheap car?"

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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
Conveniently you forgot about the MINI. That is the "step-down" brand you are referring to. You also conveniently forgot about the 1-series which is a step-down from the 3-series. Where your argument falls flat is that Honda, Toyota and Nissan created the up-market brands to penetrate different markets. Audi was a stand-alone company and VW purchased it. Audi is not merely a higher-end brand of a lower end car.
Let me see, is there a roomy, 5 passenger sedan from MINI? Let me check. Nope.

Let me see, is there a roomy 4-door Sedan in the 1 Series? Let me check. Nope.

There is nothing close to the 3 Series Sedan in the BMW line, very different situation.

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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
A well appointed Accord or Camry goes for around $33,000 and it is as well appointed as a $50,000 3-series, in some aspects even superior. It is two cars in one. It is merely filling a market niche and I can assure you that Honda sells many more $25,000 Accords than the $33,000 version.
Thank you for supporting my point. There's only one kind of person that would eschew the features and appointments in a $33,000 Accord for a $37,000 BMW. A status-seeker. BMW forces you to pay $4,000 more to get no leather, no moonroof, no heated seats, no widescreen LCD, no keyless access, and on and on. And just to even the score, you need to throw another $13,000 just to get those features back in the BMW.

You are right; the F30 is two cars:

It's a $50,000 German luxury car that has the bare minimum creature comforts and industry-leading technology.

It's a $37,000 status-symbol for someone who can't afford it and is so in need of social standing that he's willing to live without the types of luxury features found on Honda's and Toyota's for 30 years to get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
Most other (non-BMW) manufacturers benefit from cooperation and have elected to create different brands and sharing underpinnings. In the European market the BMW (the same car we drive here in the USA) is seen as a common every-day car. The Audi is the more expensive and up-market brand. Purely marketing and perception of people.
We don't live in Europe. Spare me the "Hey, an E Class is a taxi in Frankfurt!" I know. I go to Germany twice a year. A Buick is a Rolls Royce in Shanghai. The inverse works too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
As a final point, Audi belongs to VW as are notable companies such as Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti and there is a lot of technological cross-pollination happening to provide us, the consumer with the best technologies at the best possible prices (or the best profits for the company BMW elects not to use outside technologies and suffers from it.

BJ, you know, you should step out of the Walmart parking lot sometimes. There is a whole wide world out there outside of BMW. I know that in a Walmart parking lot the 3-series may be "best-in-class" and can cost as much as $50,000, but underneath it is still the $32,000 motor car. Sorry, I just had to add that jab
An Audi is a rebadged Volkswagen.

BJ
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  #59  
Old 03-01-2013, 09:17 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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It's not a question of people getting the base model because they can't afford the luxury model, it's only a $2,000 option, not like it's a completely different car! In fact I had one ordered same spec/color as BJ's but I cancelled it when I saw one on a dealer lot as I couldn't stand the chrome trims/whiskers on the outside, but it was only about $45 less per month when I switched to my no-line, hardly the difference between a Ford and a Maserati!
We're not discussing just the $2,000 luxury line or the $900 xenon headlamp delete. The conversation has taken a turn towards why people buy BMW 3 Series and how its a nice thing that BMW lets knowingly-naive customers deconstruct their $50,000 luxury cars down to $37,000 rides that cost more than an Accord and do significantly less.

Not judging, but it gets tiresome to hear these 25 year olds exclaim how they are driving 'high performance' stripped F30's when the truth is far from that. Now more than ever, the 3 Series loses all its comfort, luxury, and performance when you can't afford to crack the $40,000 mark. We all know this, there's no reason to deny the fact.

BJ
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  #60  
Old 03-01-2013, 09:56 PM
woodswatchco woodswatchco is offline
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I guess it all depends on what you call "stripped". All 328's come with one touch power windows, power door locks, idrive, a plenty large enough screen, ipod hook up, better than average stereo, folding rear seats, automatic air, adjustable modes for driving, exterior lighted door handles, keyless entry, a no charge if wanted amazing 8 speed transmission, an under rated at 245hp turbo engine, 4 wheel disc brakes with anti lock, bluetooth, etc., etc., etc.......... The list goes on. I wanted a fast, 4 door, manual transmission, rear wheel or all wheel drive car. I also like special performance related packages (like M sport that I got), bright colors (like estoril blue). So what are the other choices???? Audi A4 with the same 211 horsepower they've had forever, no real sport package and no special colors, Caillac ATS that is unproven, no special sports package and no special colors, Buick Regal GS (an uglier, crappier version of an ATS). So what is better than a $43k 328i Msport in estoril blue? Nothing that I can think of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Exactly.

$37,000 base cars only become $50,000 luxury cars by loading them.

$50,000 luxury cars only get down to $37,000 base cars by stripping them.

BMW is a luxury brand, so the elevator is heading down when it gets deconstructed, feature after feature that you expect in a luxury car get lost. Conversely, Volkswagen is a base brand, so the elevator is heading up when it's being reconstructed.

BJ
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  #61  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:46 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Now more than ever, the 3 Series loses all its comfort, luxury, and performance when you can't afford to crack the $40,000 mark. We all know this, there's no reason to deny the fact.
3 Series never has - and still doesn't - emphasize luxury, despite that moniker comprising one of the so called "Lines" for the F30 model.

As for performance and comfort, spending $50k or more on a U.S. market 328i garners only an incremental improvement in those attributes, if any at all, compared to a $39k variant.
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  #62  
Old 03-02-2013, 08:34 AM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by mrrrkva View Post
HUGE difference after I adjusted the lights!! They were WAY to LOW...... I read this post... scroll down to where TONYJ shows the picture.. http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742204
Good info, mrrrkva.

F30 owners can use the information in the link mrrrkva provided along with the diagram below to adjust vertical aim of the low beam headlamps.


Last edited by gkr778; 03-02-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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  #63  
Old 03-02-2013, 08:43 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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3 Series never has - and still doesn't - emphasize luxury, despite that moniker comprising one of the so called "Lines" for the F30 model.
The only people who think that way are those who buy the stripped-out models that, curiously, aren't very luxurious. Imagine that.

And new for the F30 is the fact that you have to pay for performance now. That legendary stiff suspension, that remarkably tight steering, they're stripped off now too. The price stays the same at the bottom end but you keep 'losing' more and more features when you strip it. Should tell you something.

It's a BMW, not a VW.

BJ
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  #64  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:14 AM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And new for the F30 is the fact that you have to pay for performance now. That legendary stiff suspension, that remarkably tight steering, they're stripped off now too. The price stays the same at the bottom end but you keep 'losing' more and more features when you strip it. Should tell you something.
This is nothing new.

Specifying a base model F30 with no packages or options provides buyers with an enviable balance between agility and comfort, perfectly appropriate for a car in the compact executive segment. For customers who are willing to give up a bit of ride comfort for a greater dose of sporty handling (like me), BMW offers a Sport Package (ZSP) on the 320i and Sport and M Sport "Lines" on the 328i and 335i. This practice is no different than what was employed with the E90 and E46. Among F30 competitors, Audi and Lexus embrace this very approach with the A4 and IS, respectively, while Mercedes-Benz provides potential W204 C-Class buyers with a choice of sporty or comfort oriented base configurations at about the same starting price.

What your post tells me is that your impression of BMW North America's packaging and feature selection strategy for the F30 is not congruent to mine, or I'd venture to say, to the majority of people who are shopping for a compact executive car.
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  #65  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:16 AM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
That legendary stiff suspension, that remarkably tight steering, they're stripped off now too. The price stays the same at the bottom end but you keep 'losing' more and more features when you strip it.
That part is actually true. I can only speak for myself, but if i have to pay for performance, i will be paying for a Porsche, or take a cheap route and get a BRZ. Besides BJ, who is dilusional, most people realize that a car is a car, nothing special about BMW that cannot be substituted by another car manufacturer. If they chose to change their business model by turning 3 from sport sedan to a luxury sedan, they should not be surprized if they find themselves faced with a need to acquire a whole new customer base.

Last edited by PK2348; 03-02-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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  #66  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:35 PM
dsackman dsackman is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
You couldn't be more wrong.

Luxury brands (BMW, Mercedes Benz) start from the top and allow buyers to work their way down. Base brands (Honda, Toyota) start from the bottom and force buyers to work their way up. Two different types of car philosophies, two different customers, two different strategies.
Proof? Or is just 'cause BJ says so?




Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post

Thank you for supporting my point. There's only one kind of person that would eschew the features and appointments in a $33,000 Accord for a $37,000 BMW. A status-seeker. BMW forces you to pay $4,000 more to get no leather, no moonroof, no heated seats, no widescreen LCD, no keyless access, and on and on. And just to even the score, you need to throw another $13,000 just to get those features back in the BMW.

You are right; the F30 is two cars:

It's a $50,000 German luxury car that has the bare minimum creature comforts and industry-leading technology.

It's a $37,000 status-symbol for someone who can't afford it and is so in need of social standing that he's willing to live without the types of luxury features found on Honda's and Toyota's for 30 years to get it.
You just cannot wrap your head around the fact that you overpaid for a status symbol and now are trying to justify it. The three series (320i) starts at $32,000 the last time I looked. So you paid $50,000 for a car whose underpinnings cost the same as a $32,000


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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
We don't live in Europe. Spare me the "Hey, an E Class is a taxi in Frankfurt!" I know. I go to Germany twice a year. A Buick is a Rolls Royce in Shanghai. The inverse works too.
We love in a global economy, lest you have not noticed it yet and the same vehicles are marketed differently in different markets. That is why it is so funny that the BMW which is as common as a Toyota in Europe and deemed to be an entry-level car, is much sought after as a "luxury" brand in the USA. Shame on you for falling for that. I have a bridge to sell you if you are interested.

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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post

An Audi is a rebadged Volkswagen.

BJ
VW a company that owns brands or marques such as VW, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley and others. So what you are saying is that the Lamborghini is a re-badged Audi? Really...


I think one fact that we do agree upon is that many people who grew up with lesser cars fell for the marketing efforts of BMW and peer pressure and have for many years aspire to that hype. Then when they get the opportunity to get a BMW, they merely compare them to the cars with what they had, not what else is in the market. I concede that a BMW is better that a Toyota or Honda or many American cars, but in comparison to what it is marketed against - Mercedes and Audi, it fails.
Understanding that, the BMW should correctly be compared with the Golf GTI and the like, rather than the Audi or Mercedes.
My wife commented again today on the fading of the rubber window seals and the "B"-pillar from a car that is a mere 1 year old and is always parked in a garage. A comparison was made to the 1-year old Golf TDI that stands outside and has no fading at all.

Oh, just a final point, I am speaking from first-hand experience with current models BMW and Audi, and VW, since you threw that into the mix.


.

Last edited by dsackman; 03-02-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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  #67  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:51 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Thumbs down

Your example is a bit skewed.

The things you describe happening with the '12 328 sound like first model year issues...many have a rule not to buy a first model year car. I have seen other '12 owners mention your same problems.

Meanwhile I had an '09 VW CC that had large failures which wound up being common and not just small annoyances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsackman View Post











I think one fact that we do agree upon is that many people who grew up with lesser cars fell for the marketing efforts of BMW and peer pressure and have for many years aspire to that hype. Then when they get the opportunity to get a BMW, they merely compare them to the cars with what they had, not what else is in the market. I concede that a BMW is better that a Toyota or Honda or many American cars, but in comparison to what it is marketed against - Mercedes and Audi, it fails.
Understanding that, the BMW should correctly be compared with the Golf GTI and the like, rather than the Audi or Mercedes.
My wife commented again today on the fading of the rubber window seals and the "B"-pillar from a car that is a mere 1 year old and is always parked in a garage. A comparison was made to the 1-year old Golf TDI that stands outside and has no fading at all.

Oh, just a final point, I am speaking from first-hand experience with current models BMW and Audi, and VW, since you threw that into the mix.


.
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  #68  
Old 03-02-2013, 06:36 PM
woodswatchco woodswatchco is offline
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The big thing for me is that I wanted a 4 door, manual transmission, fast car. Other than no standard sunroof (which I've had on my last 4 cars and never opened) and leather not standard, what else could a 3 series have for it not to be considered loaded???? Power everything, auto a/c, idrive, nice stereo, folding rear seats, great styling, keyless entry, amazing 8 speed transmission or manual for no extra charge. All these new luxury options have NOTHING to do with driving! BMW has never called themselves "the ultimate luxury car".


Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
You couldn't be more wrong.

Luxury brands (BMW, Mercedes Benz) start from the top and allow buyers to work their way down. Base brands (Honda, Toyota) start from the bottom and force buyers to work their way up. Two different types of car philosophies, two different customers, two different strategies.



Take leather off a BMW, people say "eeew, no way you should be able to do that in a luxury car."

Put leather on a Honda, people say "what's the point of a feature like that on a cheap car?"



Let me see, is there a roomy, 5 passenger sedan from MINI? Let me check. Nope.

Let me see, is there a roomy 4-door Sedan in the 1 Series? Let me check. Nope.

There is nothing close to the 3 Series Sedan in the BMW line, very different situation.



Thank you for supporting my point. There's only one kind of person that would eschew the features and appointments in a $33,000 Accord for a $37,000 BMW. A status-seeker. BMW forces you to pay $4,000 more to get no leather, no moonroof, no heated seats, no widescreen LCD, no keyless access, and on and on. And just to even the score, you need to throw another $13,000 just to get those features back in the BMW.

You are right; the F30 is two cars:

It's a $50,000 German luxury car that has the bare minimum creature comforts and industry-leading technology.

It's a $37,000 status-symbol for someone who can't afford it and is so in need of social standing that he's willing to live without the types of luxury features found on Honda's and Toyota's for 30 years to get it.



We don't live in Europe. Spare me the "Hey, an E Class is a taxi in Frankfurt!" I know. I go to Germany twice a year. A Buick is a Rolls Royce in Shanghai. The inverse works too.



An Audi is a rebadged Volkswagen.

BJ
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  #69  
Old 03-02-2013, 07:02 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
All these new luxury options have NOTHING to do with driving! BMW has never called themselves "the ultimate luxury car".
Exactly! This is particularly applicable to 1 Series and 3 Series.
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  #70  
Old 03-02-2013, 08:30 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by PK2348 View Post
That part is actually true. I can only speak for myself, but if i have to pay for performance, i will be paying for a Porsche, or take a cheap route and get a BRZ. Besides BJ, who is dilusional, most people realize that a car is a car, nothing special about BMW that cannot be substituted by another car manufacturer. If they chose to change their business model by turning 3 from sport sedan to a luxury sedan, they should not be surprized if they find themselves faced with a need to acquire a whole new customer base.
Well, the F30 is proof-positive of that, no?

Not like some recent college grad in BMW's design department made some sweeping decisions about the F30 and won some boardroom battles here. BMW spent millions of dollars over the course of years to determine exactly what the next gen 3 Series Sedan should look like, the customers voted, and here's what the sheetmetal says they said:

"We want a car that's bigger and wider."
"We want a car that has a softer ride."
"We want a car that doesn't steer like a truck."
"We want a car that has a bigger back seat and more legroom."
"We want a car with a bigger trunk."
"We want a car with an exciting interior."
"We want a car for the modern tech age."
"We want a car with better gas mileage."
"We want a car that's faster from 0-30 because we never drive 0-60."

The reason the F30 won't fail, can't fail, is because it was designed specifically for BMW's real customer base- baby boomers born in the late 1940's to mid 1960's who are getting older, wider, have growing children, have empty-nest couples they hang with, etc.

A young guy in Brooklyn who reads discussion forums and buys into the performance myth isn't who BMW is after. They'll appease you with a beefier suspension, bigger engines, bolt-on bumpers and the like, but you're not who the F30 is designed for. If it were, it wouldn't be an E39. It would be an E46.

BJ
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:39 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post

Proof? Or is just 'cause BJ says so?

(snip)
You are a VW loyalist and were rubbed the wrong way by my rebadge comment. I'm not here to mind your feelings. Be a big boy.

BMW is a luxury brand, one of the biggest in the world. They don't create the most important and most significant luxury car on the planet without creature comforts found on Jetta's since 2003 like garage door openers, folding rear seats, full Bluetooth, full USB, full-sized LCD's, leather, xenon's, navigation, moonroof's, heated seats, etc. in mind. Not like the F30 design team said "Hey guys, lets offer heated seats as an option! What do you think? Will some customers buy them?"

Just because Audi rebadges a Passat and builds from the ground-up doesn't mean that BMW does the same thing. Instead, they take a full-featured 3 Series and de-feature it to hit the low pricepoint that Audi, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, and the other rebadges can offer. BMW's are luxury cars. They're built that way from Day 1. These other wannabe's build base cars, gussy a few models up, call them "luxury cars". That's the difference. Enjoy your BMW. Enjoy the badge. You sacrificed a lot for it.

BJ
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
The big thing for me is that I wanted a 4 door, manual transmission, fast car. Other than no standard sunroof (which I've had on my last 4 cars and never opened) and leather not standard, what else could a 3 series have for it not to be considered loaded???? Power everything, auto a/c, idrive, nice stereo, folding rear seats, great styling, keyless entry, amazing 8 speed transmission or manual for no extra charge. All these new luxury options have NOTHING to do with driving! BMW has never called themselves "the ultimate luxury car".
A similarly priced Acura would have gotten you the equivalent of a $52,000 F30 with all the bells and whistles.

"Loaded" these days means navigation, xenons, leather, full USB, full Bluetooth, park distance control, rear camera, full keyless entry, heated seats, fully adjustable power seats, sunroof, and on and on. Basically, take an F30, add all the packages, you've got an Acura that's still $7,000-$10,000 cheaper with all that stuff.

You have a great car, enjoy it. My only point is that BMW's aren't designed from the bottom-up. They're designed at the top and can be de-featured on the way down. Not a very controversial comment, not sure why it's causing a reaction. And moreso now than ever before; even the crisp suspension and handling gets taken off down at $37,000, have to pay for a Sport line or an Adaptive M Suspension just to get back to where the E90 left off. And the new 320i? Allows you to strip out the horsepower, too.

BJ
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:02 AM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
My only point is that BMW's aren't designed from the bottom-up. They're designed at the top and can be de-featured on the way down. Not a very controversial comment, not sure why it's causing a reaction.
You are correct in stating your comment isn't a very controversial one. The reason it caused reaction on this thread is because the comment isn't based in reality.

As with nearly all global automakers, BMW automobiles are provided in specific base configurations suited to the markets in which they are sold. Optional features and packages can then be added to the base configuration, per customer requirements.

Also, the 3-Series is NOT marketed as a luxury car, at least in the U.S. market. And as woodswatchco mentioned previously in this thread, even the BMW Automobiles marque does not emphasize luxury.

Last edited by gkr778; 03-03-2013 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:09 PM
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Here is the Wiki about Car Classification. In EU, the 3-series is not a luxury car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_cla...e.2Fmid-luxury
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:41 PM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Well, the F30 is proof-positive of that, no? Not yet, it will take more than a year to fail if it will. Not saying it will, but if it does the decline will be gradual, over 3 to 5 years.

Not like some recent college grad in BMW's design department made some sweeping decisions about the F30 and won some boardroom battles here. BMW spent millions of dollars over the course of years to determine exactly what the next gen 3 Series Sedan should look like, the customers voted, and here's what the sheetmetal says they said:

"We want a car that's bigger and wider."Get a 5 series
"We want a car that has a softer ride."Get a 5 series
"We want a car that doesn't steer like a truck." i drove trucks for a living when i was young. Not sure if you did or if you know what you're talking about
"We want a car that has a bigger back seat and more legroom."Get a 5 series
"We want a car with a bigger trunk."Get a 5 series
"We want a car with an exciting interior."hire an escort to drive around with you
"We want a car for the modern tech age." You can have all that optional tech fluff, no reason why it should effect handling
"We want a car with better gas mileage."I dont really care about my gas mileage, if i did i would get a prius. Most of the people who pay premium for a bmw are not that concerned with saving money on gas. Also, i used to get 21 mpg in e90, up to maybe 23 now, big deal? no.
"We want a car that's faster from 0-30 because we never drive 0-60." Not familiar with this argument at all. Must be the 1st time i ever heard someone say it.

The reason the F30 won't fail, can't fail, is because it was designed specifically for BMW's real customer base- baby boomers born in the late 1940's to mid 1960's who are getting older, wider, have growing children, have empty-nest couples they hang with, etc.

A young guy in Brooklyn Thank you, but i am not much yonger than you are. I drove my 1st BMW when i was 14 year old kid in Russia, long before this forum or even internet existedwho reads discussion forums and buys into the performance myth isn't who BMW is after. They'll appease you with a beefier suspension, bigger engines, bolt-on bumpers and the like, but you're not who the F30 is designed for. If it were, it wouldn't be an E39. It would be an E46.

BJ
Dude, just face it, 3 is not a luxury car. It does not give you status. And shallow people who do care about what you drive, most likely look down on you, thinking, look at that wide middle aged guy who can't afford a 5. That's not my opinon, i am just letting you know what most people think when they see you in a 3.
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