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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 02-24-2013, 07:00 PM
mws mws is offline
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Mein Auto: 760Li, F250 V10, Ex 7.3L
Bought a wrecked 760Li for parts. need help with starting system

So, for those of you who have been following my issues with my 760Li and the gas in the Tank Vent system, I decided to buy a 50K mile rollover-wrecked 2004 760Li to try to get some fresher HPFPs and also, maybe a fresher engine, tranny, you name it. The interior, besides some glass particles, is in great shape, and the wrong color for my car, so I can sell it.

here's your pics

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Cars/760w...0116&k=6LJDnhm

here's me dealing with the PVC system leaking into the intake plenum whilst upside down, and vacuuming the hydrolocked cylinders out




here's hydrolock, for those of you new to it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock

before I fixed the hydrolock I charged the battery and jumped the car's terminals from the engine bay (since the BST had been blown) and got a half turn on the engine , and then it was stuck. It was then hydrolocked. I figured this out by going under the car and hand-cranking.

problem is, I kept trying various types of jumping, thinking maybe there just was not enough amps. I jammed on the starter button for several attempts. I am afraid I blew something, after trying so many times.

The fuse 42 in the glove box (50amp) is fine.

Now that things are better with the engine itself, and I can turn it by hand crank, I cannot get the starter solenoid to click. Other relays click, and fuel-type stuff happens, but the solenoid simply does not click at the starter. I verified with a pal pushing the button while I listened with a stethoscope to the solenoid and starter, under the car.

I verified there's 12v at the big cable coming to the solenoid as well.

The BST has been re-coupled, drilled thru and screwed together, I also still tried jumping it with another vehicle from the engine compartment, in case the BST was not a good connection. No click from the solenoid.

We know the solenoid used to work, before I Jammed on it while the engine was jammed up, because I did hear it try to turn the engine about half a turn.

Is there a starter relay? A fusible link? I can find NO info in TIS, on the web, in pictures, even on

bmw-planet.com's diagrams. Nothing.

any helpful clues on where to look?


if I can get this to start and run, I can verify the condition of the pumps and might have me a nice 50K mile powertrain for my 135K 760Li.
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2013, 07:04 PM
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MakaveliFaison MakaveliFaison is offline
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There is an ews system that kills the spark. My want to try some diagnostic work with inpa
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2013, 07:13 PM
mws mws is offline
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saw a bit of that on bmw diagrams site thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by MakaveliFaison View Post
There is an ews system that kills the spark. My want to try some diagnostic work with inpa
I also forgot to mention that I plan to check the solenoid with an old fashioned alligator clip starter button, but the access is dismal. heat shieds I need to bend out of the way to remove the cover for the solenoid's + terminal, and limited ability to get hands in there.
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2013, 07:31 PM
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MakaveliFaison MakaveliFaison is offline
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Just hook a computer up to it and see whats communicating and whatd not. You may just have sone flags that need to be cleared.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2013, 09:30 PM
mws mws is offline
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It's the solenoid. It's stuck or fried or both.

I cleared the tight shielding away from the solenoid plug. removed the plug to the single-wire terminal on the solenoid. Verified I had hot 12v on the big cable coming to it.

Checked my trusty old starter button for continuity and it works.

Attached the two alligator clips on the button to the 12v and the single-pole terminal on the solenoid. No click. removed the clips and tried it twice. Looks like I burnt the solenoid out trying to start it when the motor was stuck.

No fun. TIS says to remove the exhaust manifold on that side to service the starter. :-(

Meanwhile, VMWare on my laptop forgot where DIS is, I'm in contact with the guy who helped me set it up to figure that out. But I get to do another fun hardware job first.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2013, 04:30 AM
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745iguy 745iguy is offline
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Inpa is easier to setup and can do many things like clear codes and register battery , put power to things like smog pump reset tranny adapt etc
Good luck with this project
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Last edited by 745iguy; 02-25-2013 at 05:17 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:13 AM
Davidf Davidf is offline
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So, that is your "novel" approach to fixing HPFP issues. I guess you are right, novel. So, what did you pay for the wrecked car? I am guessing less than 5K (cost of two fuel pumps)? Hope you did not bend a rod trying to crank against a hydrolocked piston.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2013, 10:58 AM
mws mws is offline
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Novel, yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidf View Post
So, that is your "novel" approach to fixing HPFP issues. I guess you are right, novel. So, what did you pay for the wrecked car? I am guessing less than 5K (cost of two fuel pumps)? Hope you did not bend a rod trying to crank against a hydrolocked piston.

It was a bit more than $6K with Copart fees, taxes, transportation, the buyer's fees (in California, you need a licensed buyer). The final bid was $5200. I knew I was in for the other fees.

I could have gotten two pumps for around $4200. Then I might need MAFs soon, and an alternator someday, and cats ($$$$$) and O2s, and a transmission, DMEs, window motors, other modules, etc etc.

With 135K on my car, and I want to keep driving it, I need a source for younger wear parts. Seat motors, even. Heck, the rear trunk lid motor is nicer and faster and more sturdy than mine.

My kick plates in the door sills are toast. These ones on the wreck are in great condition.



If my HPFPs were NOT dead, I would consider selling my 135K mile car and the delta of it's sale price, and buying another used one with say, 80K miles, would be about $4000-5000. That would be the only smart way to go. No doubt.

But the pumps "are" dead, and now the delta of walking away is more like $10K to get a newer 760Li. But still, not that new....

Then I get into an 80K car that has all the above named parts to look forward to dying again.

Plus, I get to learn the car on a crash course. Nothing like a wreck to learn on. Where you really start to learn is when you start sawing it to pieces.

Did it with Fieros, back in my mis-spent youth, my FD Mazda RX7, My 300ZXs (had a few wrecks), even my Insight.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:19 AM
mws mws is offline
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Yup I got INPA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 745iguy View Post
Inpa is easier to setup and can do many things like clear codes and register battery , put power to things like smog pump reset tranny adapt etc
Good luck with this project
my error codes for the 760Li N73 engine stuff come up in German, so it's a pain to use for that. Works great for real-time viewing of digital and analog modules, tho.
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  #10  
Old 03-02-2013, 06:16 PM
mws mws is offline
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IT'S ALIIIIIIIIVE!!!!! (language in the video, sorry, don't show your kids)



and the other video will be uploaded here, soon. Second video not that important, just some follow up



The idle is a bit bumpy once I warmed it up completely, and each MAF does not agree on their values at idle. One might have been damaged, or I did no clean them well enough after the oil soaking they got. I will clean them and try again, and also, try swapping in my running car's MAFs to get a good pair. But first, I'll check my running car to see what it's MAFs say first, to get a benchmark.

Last edited by mws; 03-02-2013 at 06:17 PM.
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  #11  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:14 PM
mws mws is offline
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Bumpy idle WAS the MAFS for sure. I replaced the oil-soaked MAFs, and I admit, I did drop one of the MAFs while trying to clean them with MAF cleaner. I replaced the MAFs from the wreck with 135K MAFs from my daily driver. the engine totally settled down and started instantly and idled and revved like butter on the wrecked car.

Check out this video.



I "do" have some footage of me walking around the car, documenting how a bad MAF sounds, I'll try to get that posted soon, for future generations.
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2013, 05:41 AM
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jgriffith007 jgriffith007 is offline
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nice work!
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2013, 06:31 AM
Davidf Davidf is offline
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Congrats. So, you going to strip car down and get rid of the carcass? I did that to an E46 and ended up cutting the body into manageable sized pieces so I could haul to recycler. When I got there, I learned that they would take entire cars sans fuel tank. But, in the end I got paid more per pound of steel since they did not have to separate non steel materials. Next time, I will get all non steel parts removed and haul the entire body to the recycler. Good luck.
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  #14  
Old 03-03-2013, 09:03 AM
mws mws is offline
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ahhhh so you do understand my "novel" approach....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidf View Post
Congrats. So, you going to strip car down and get rid of the carcass? I did that to an E46 and ended up cutting the body into manageable sized pieces so I could haul to recycler. When I got there, I learned that they would take entire cars sans fuel tank. But, in the end I got paid more per pound of steel since they did not have to separate non steel materials. Next time, I will get all non steel parts removed and haul the entire body to the recycler. Good luck.
I once cut up a Z and took it to pick n pull a few hunks at a time and put it in their metal bin. I was not aware of the local metal recycling place at the time. Now I probably will receycle. Around here, if the car has no valuable parts, you might have to PAY the towtruck to take it away, even if you give them the pink.

So the novelty of the approach to my HPFP problem was to pay somewhere near the price of HPFPs and just replace the entire engine, transmission, all accessories like alt, PS pump, A/C pump and hoses, even the steering rack, and get rid of a majority of future failures, and also oil leaks all at once. And I get a crash course in the car, as I mentioned.

so yes, descend upon it like locusts and strip it as bare as possible. But getting to the rest of the pirate booty to sell things, like interior and such, might take some time.

I am not sure how the engine bay wiring harness hooks up, but if I can get that, then that goes in as well.

glad you understand.
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  #15  
Old 03-03-2013, 09:04 AM
mws mws is offline
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thanks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriffith007 View Post
nice work!

the project is back to being fun now. not stressful.

the only thing left to verify is that there's no gas forming in the tank vent hoses on the HPFPs. I have checked twice, and plan to run her, and check every day for probably a week.
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  #16  
Old 03-04-2013, 07:25 AM
mws mws is offline
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so what all did you use from your wreck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidf View Post
Congrats. So, you going to strip car down and get rid of the carcass? I did that to an E46 and ended up cutting the body into manageable sized pieces so I could haul to recycler. When I got there, I learned that they would take entire cars sans fuel tank. But, in the end I got paid more per pound of steel since they did not have to separate non steel materials. Next time, I will get all non steel parts removed and haul the entire body to the recycler. Good luck.
just curious.
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  #17  
Old 03-04-2013, 04:02 PM
ah39120 ah39120 is offline
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great work....does gas in the tank vent valves that are secured by a quick connect mean that I have a defective pump possibly as mentioned in a previous thread?
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2013, 04:15 PM
mws mws is offline
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we are all starting to arrive at a consensus that if the gas makes it all the way up from the HPFP's rubber hoses, to the tank vent valves and then, into your intake manifold, something bad is up with the HPFPs. When the engine is cold, I would open the hose on top of each HPFP and drain gas from there. (well, and at the tank vent quick releases, too) Drive, check the next day when cold to see if you are still generating gas from the tops of the HPFPs--we believe it's coming from there, so there's probably some there to see in the morning. That would be a cause to believe your HPFPs are starting to fail and leak into the vent tubing.

For instance. The wreck had about a quarter shot-glass of gas at each HPFP when I first got it. Since then, I have started and ran the motor several times for a total of a few hours. I have seen no more gasoline gather at the HPFPs when I check the hoses when the engine is cold. My thinking is: 1] car upside down, maybe that's how it got there, as we discussed. 2] not sure, but can gas condense? could 50K miles of gas vapor result in some condensation? The HPFPs are certainly at the lowest point in the engine bay for the vent hoses. If there were some condensation, it would roll down to the HPFPs and sit there.

One member, Gadget, had hesitation, bad engine behavior, and had gas in his Tank vent Valves, and the valves and hoses replaced and drove a few 1000s miles and BMW told him there was no more gas forming in the hoses right on the HPFPs. Not sure how his gas got into his tank vent valves in the first place, but that is what BMW told him, and apparently, his car ran great--until it got wrecked unfortunately. So that case is interesting.

The more of us who report this issue, the better to nail it down.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:27 PM
mws mws is offline
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BTW: here's what it takes to replace a starter on a 760Li, probably on a 745 as well. You have to have some sort of engine hanger. Since I had a bunch of scrap, I made one myself.

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  #20  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:01 PM
mws mws is offline
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Man, I hate how the forum server works. Second or third time this has happened to me: I just entered a ton of text and it kicked me out when I tried to post it, saying my session had ended.

screw it. here's the video of the engine coming out.



here's the pictures. Feel free to browse, and look at the captions. I am tired as heck and don't feel like entering it all over again.

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Cars/760w...5827&k=pVQVrWJ
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  #21  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:38 AM
mws mws is offline
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The 50K mile wrecked car's engine, transmission and front cross-member, radiator, condenser, fan, PS and oil coolers, and all engine bay hoses, are in my 135K 760Li now.

Purrs like a kitten. Drove it to work today. I do have a Servotronic error. I probably just don't have the steering rack plugged in all the way.
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  #22  
Old 03-28-2013, 10:10 PM
mws mws is offline
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Steering rack was not plugged in. Fixed by just popping the plug on (duh-ohh!). The Rack is 50K miles too, btw. So is the dynamic swaybar (which leaks after 135K miles). been driving it for a week now. Fricking love it. Got the A/C re-charged today. Freezing cold.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:09 AM
folarinm folarinm is offline
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congratulations
I need the set of dme /cas and key Can I buy the spare set you have?
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2013, 01:59 PM
mws mws is offline
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interesting...

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Originally Posted by folarinm View Post
congratulations
I need the set of dme /cas and key Can I buy the spare set you have?
when you say "key", do you mean, the keyfob/starter key?
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:12 AM
folarinm folarinm is offline
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yes

Last edited by folarinm; 03-31-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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