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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F07 Gran Turismo (2010 - Current)

F07 Gran Turismo (2010 - Current)
The 5 Series Gran Turismo -- now available in the USA as a 535i, 550i and 550i xDrive model.

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  #1  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:39 PM
Rogue2258 Rogue2258 is offline
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Location: La Porte, Tx
 
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Mein Auto: 2010 550i GT, 2011 535i
Chevron responses- Techron - Direct Injection & ?'s

I have had the dreaded "Drivetrain Malfunction" message appear in our 2010 550i GT. The message was accompanied with incredibly unnerving hesitation, in concert with massive cavitation when the slightest application of throttle was added, and heavy shaking at idle. We made 4 trips to the dealer during which various ignition related parts were changed. On the 5th trip to the dealer with the same issue in play they recommended cleaning the intake. We were told that the code that was present did not denote a specific part, cylinder, plug, etc was failing. They believed that there was a good possibility that our GT had carbon build up. After the cleaning was performed our 550i GT was much quicker and felt substantially stronger, but best of all the drivetrain malfunction light did not reappear.

The entire experience was very disappointing. We run Shell 93 V power or equal in a pinch. We bought our GT with 50k on the miles, and at the time of this event we had 62k on it. I wanted to see if there was anything else I could do to prevent this event from reoccurring. Since Techron is the only additive BMW will approve of using in the fuel I began looking into how much I could use, and if it would even be worth it to do so. I have read many threads on the use of Techron. Almost universally the responses in most threads were that Techron would not help with carbon build up on intake valves. There were also numerous comments that you should change your oil after you use Techron. I sent 4 emails over a 3 week time period. I received two responses.

I thought that most on the forum would find this info helpful. I was forced to make a bit of a fuss to get a response. There is a website for Chevron Techron that allows you to submit questions and comments.

Response #1
"Thank you for your inquiry. Although we cannot disclose the details of our test data on Techron, we would expect it to be suitable for deposit control with your 2010 BMW 550i Gran Turismo. It is not necessary to apply Techron Concentrate to every tank of gasoline; also, the engine oil does not have to be changed after every application. We would expect the most significant deposit control area to be the combustion chamber, although results should extend to other areas. We recommend you contact your BMW dealer for guidance on the best way to remove the intake valve deposits.

We are sorry for the delay in response.

Sincerely.

Chevron Fuels Technical Service

Response #2
Im sorry you havenít received responses to your previous e-mails. Please accept our apologies.
*
Is it safe to use Techron Concentrate in the recommended dose with every tank?
*
Using Techron in every tank would be a waste of money, actually. Techron Concentrate Plus is our strongest product and if used every 3.000 miles, it will keep your injectors and combustion chamber clean. You can use it a second consecutive time if you feel it needs it, but usually one treatment will do the job.

Do I need to change my oil after I use Techron? I have seen this recommended numerous time on the web.
A good reason not to believe things you read on the web. We recommend to use the product once every 3,000 miles and in some material they stated a good way to remember is to use the product once every oil change. But that does not mean you have to have an oil change before or after you use the product.
*
Is Techron helpful in removing carbon build up on intake valves in a direct injection engines?
Techron basically is a gassoline detergent in a concentrated form. As it burns in the combustion chamber it cleans the injectors and the rest of the combustion chamber including intake valves.
*
I hope I have answered your questions."
*

FYI my friends. Do as you will
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:48 PM
gt=hi&bye gt=hi&bye is offline
GT = hi&bye
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
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Mein Auto: 550i gt
2010 GTs

Thanks for the info Rogue. I have a 2010 also. I don't have that many miles, but it seems that many first generation GT owners are having problems with their vehicles.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:57 PM
gt=hi&bye gt=hi&bye is offline
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Location: Charlotte, NC
 
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Mein Auto: 550i gt
Some hit...Some miss

I only have 8,000 miles on my 2010 GT. So far, so good.... I have had zero problems. But I obviously don't drive the car much.
I guess it's a hit or miss type situation with the issues many have seen like the DriveTrain malfunction, fuel injectors, tire problems, etc.

Rogue, did you have Dinan upgrade on your car?
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2013, 05:25 PM
nacho nacho is offline
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Many years ago I worked in the test department of a factory IMSA GTP team. Injectors were flow tested and matched according to flow and put in race engines. We had engine failures that were determined to be causes by injectors flowing less during a race. Techron was tested by me personally and found to clean the injectors and when added to race fuel keep the injectors flowing near capacity for the entire race. I am a firm believer in it and use Chevron gas and periodic bottles of it. While I cannot say if it will keep the intake clean, I would use it at least because I know it will at least keep the injectors clean! A dirty injector will not atomize fuel correctly which could lead to more carbon deposits in the chamber and exhaust valves as unburned fuel accumulates in its way out. Techron is the real deal! There is also no need to add it to every tank! If you use Chevron fuel it has a little bit in it! Then you just buy a bottle once per year. Hope that helps.

Last edited by nacho; 02-28-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2013, 05:45 PM
gt=hi&bye gt=hi&bye is offline
GT = hi&bye
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
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Mein Auto: 550i gt
Cheap gas?

So would it be safe to assume that whoever owned Rogue's car for the first 50k miles used cheap or 87 grade gasoline?
Should this be a lesson to us to spend the extra $$ on premium?
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:06 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is online now
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Whenever I've tried substituting regular or a mid-grade, it was obvious the performance suffered. You might not notice if you drove only around town except that the computer would change the timing and the mileage would go down. The difference in price can be made up almost by the increase in efficiency.

Depending on the brand of gas, there may or may not be a difference in quantity of cleaners, if the brand has any in the first place.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:01 PM
Rogue2258 Rogue2258 is offline
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Location: La Porte, Tx
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 175
Mein Auto: 2010 550i GT, 2011 535i
GT=Hi&BYE-We have not done a Dinan or Rentech upgrade, but it has been put on the list for further consideration. The upgrade conversation took place after a run in I had with a black on black on black 2013 Merc CLS AMG 63 at 9:15am on Sunday morning 3 weeks ago. I asked for it being that I chased him down, but it just so happened the light turned red to line us up. He jumped in front and I just could not reel him back in..stayed with him after the initial jump, but behind him none the less
I would love to add a stage 1 program, but I do not want to mislead and tell you that it is at the top of our present wish list even though if the little devil on my shoulder says I should. A little encouragement from other's experiences wil probably help me build a case....just not sure if I will get a judgement in my favor in my little family court. I have read threads that made an upgrade sound like a must.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:18 AM
gt=hi&bye gt=hi&bye is offline
GT = hi&bye
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Mein Auto: 550i gt
Dinan and DriveTrain Malfunction

Oh. The reason why I asked if you had the Dinan upgrade was because many members in the F10 forum complained of having the malfunction shortly after the Dinan install. But I guess this point is moot in your case.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:29 AM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Since you have direct injection gasoline does not wash over your valves or through the throttle body techron will not help in this regard. I WILL help keep injector tips and the combustion chamber free of buildup. Using LowSaps (LL04) may help but you'll have to cut your oil change in half ~7k miles.

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  #10  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:06 AM
Rogue2258 Rogue2258 is offline
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Location: La Porte, Tx
 
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BMWTurboDzl-You are making a number excellent points that need to be hi-lighted. I am jumping on the bandwagon to cut oil changes in half. Since the amount of exhaust gases being recirculated for re-burn are ever increasing it would only make sense to keep your oil in tip top shape so as to keep the pollutant fumes circulating internally to a minimum. If you would visualize the bottom of the intake valve as a part of the combustion chamber. Chevron has responded above that Techron does in fact keep the combustion chamber clean. Unfortunately with our direct injection engines that does not mean the top of the intake valves are being cleaned as they are in other types of engines.

Nacho- Your response is reassuring to me. It is great to hear an independent positive result via the use of Techron. When I was younger I spent a good deal of extra money on snake oil additives of every kind. I am in the heavy truck business. Keeping injectors clean is extremely important in the new diesel engines as well. The fuel pressures have been pushed extremely high (35-40,000 psi) so as to make more power and to accommodate emission standards. Without proper fuel atomization there will be lack of efficiency and ultimately an inability to create engine power.

I hope that you all do not have to go through the disappointment of carbon build up in your GT's. My sincere thanks to all for contributing. I was looking for a miracle in a bottle
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  #11  
Old 03-02-2013, 08:50 AM
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Many thanks for the time you took to pass this along to your fellow GTers.

One question - Do you use Shell 93 because Shell does not have a 91 octane fuel? Everytime I am in the US (usually NY, PA, MA or CT) I always look for Sunoco stations as they have 91 octane fuel whereas most other stations do not.
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2013, 09:54 AM
Rogue2258 Rogue2258 is offline
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Location: La Porte, Tx
 
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Mein Auto: 2010 550i GT, 2011 535i
I have leaned towards Shell since my teens. It was the premier branded fuel in my opinion in the New Orleans area. Recently I have read that the normal octane range of the V-Power branded fuel is 94-99 octane. I see that most premium fuel in the Houston area is 93 octane. I assume climate is the main factor for that.

I am leaning towards using the Chevron branded gas after the response received. It took some time and coaxing, but I was pleased with their responses and accept their apologies for their untimely responses. It happens.

Lucas Oil has never responded to 4+ emails I sent to them. I have serious concerns about their fuel injector cleaner being that they could not formulate a single response. It has been 6 weeks since my first request to them.

I have received such valuable info from this forum. It is the least I could to share. I believe the carbon build up issue is of huge concern to us as a collective. It does not give a definitive code when the event occurs. It is the dealer's best guess as to when the intake cleaning should be performed. If your under warranty not such a big deal. If you are not under warranty then you might breath a sigh of relief if you get out of there with an $850 walnut blasting.

Happy to help, and we love our GT!
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:21 PM
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David1 David1 is offline
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Carbon build up on the intake valves with dirrect injection is normal and nothing you can do will prevent it. This affects most/all DI motors. Plan on cleaning the intake every 30k to 50k miles. My neighbor with a Porsche Cayanne with the DI 6cyl just had to be decarboned at just over 40k miles. The type of fuel you use will not make any difference. Techron will not do anything, but it will not hurt either since a DI injector can not be cleaned. DI injectors run at such high PSI that the pressure alon cleans them, but the tip actually can wear away changing the spray pattern.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:39 PM
jimmyjjohn jimmyjjohn is offline
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The all new BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo is not only a new model but an all new shape of vehicle in the BMW lineup. With a length nearly the size of the 7 Series, the 5 series name is somewhat deceptive as to what the actual size of this car is. The car boasts the second largest amount of legroom of all the cars in BMWs lineup. The trunk is barely smaller then that of the X5. As you are starting to realize, this car is intended to haul goods and transport people.

However, a great deal of attention has been paid to the details and its transport duties are meant to be done in the utmost of comfort, style and ease. The rear seats can be arranged in either a 2 seat or 3 seat combination with a dual lift tailgate in a hatchback style.

The styling of the car is all BMW, with the familiar large kidney grills that have passed into every car in the lineup. Cues are of course taken from the CS concept car but with a unique 5 series spin. The car is also featuring BMWs black panel technology upon which the instruments light up when needed. Its a nice mixture of technology and style. The car will be available in 530d, 535i and 550i trim.

Thanks
Porte Per Garage
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:47 PM
Wagons_Rock Wagons_Rock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Carbon build up on the intake valves with direct injection is normal and nothing you can do will prevent it. This affects most/all DI motors.
David1 is correct. This is the bottom line: you wont be able to decoke or prevent carbon build up with extra fuel additives. Details follow:

With old style 'Traditional' fuel injection into the inlet manifold, inlet valves are washed with a detergent containing fuel mix on every cycle, reducing carbon buildup. By contrast, with direct injection engines the inlet valves are never washed with fuel during the induction cycle, but do see oil containing air due to exhaust gas recirculation, hence carbon buildup. Its a well known design deficiency in direct injection engines, but the severity varies depending on how well EGR is cleaned of oil before its returned to the inlet manifold (varies with engine design). Some manufactures (Audi?) are now using a mixed injection design, where direct injection is used for its HP increasing and better burn, but in addition some fuel is injected into manifold to rinse valves. Possibly more aggressive cleaning of EGR is also used, which is possible for N54/N55 as aftermarket mod.

So save your money: Fuel additives won't help. Good news is many moderate milage (< 60k) BMW direct injections don't seem to have this problem (yet).
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2013, 08:12 AM
katiesdad7 katiesdad7 is offline
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My 2010 with about 36k on it is at the dealer now. It has been in about 4 times for hesitation at low speeds. It now stalls out intermittently at long red lights after idling rough first. They have removed and cleaned the intake, replaced the injectors a few times and a bunch of other stuff. Seems to be getting worse.

I'll keep you updated.
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2013, 11:28 AM
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daders daders is offline
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Chevron responses- Techron - Direct Injection &amp; ?'s

I'm sorry to hear that...hopefully they figure it out for you. To have to prove this is a problem by returning as many times as you have would have me extremely perturbed if not irate. Most things we discuss that are car related to our GT's are annoyances/inconveniences or upgrades. Engine, brake and suspension issues that are unexplained and not able to be resolved are, in my book, complete deal breakers because they are the components comprising the only true requirement for a vehicle, not to mention the safety of your ride.


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  #18  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:22 PM
katiesdad7 katiesdad7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daders View Post
I'm sorry to hear that...hopefully they figure it out for you. To have to prove this is a problem by returning as many times as you have would have me extremely perturbed if not irate. Most things we discuss that are car related to our GT's are annoyances/inconveniences or upgrades. Engine, brake and suspension issues that are unexplained and not able to be resolved are, in my book, complete deal breakers because they are the components comprising the only true requirement for a vehicle, not to mention the safety of your ride.


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I have to take my hat off to the dealer. They have really tried to get to the bottom of the problem. I just hope they don't give me the "we can't duplicate" response. I feel that is a response that means we have no idea what it is and aren't really concerned.

In the beginning I thought that maybe I was just being to picky. Then my wife started to complain and I know it wasn't just me. But I feel that the ultimate driving machine should drive like the ultimate driving machine.

Keeping my fingers crossed.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2013, 06:14 PM
hungryninja hungryninja is offline
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Location: San Francisco
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjjohn View Post
The all new BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo is not only a new model but an all new shape of vehicle in the BMW lineup. With a length nearly the size of the 7 Series, the 5 series name is somewhat deceptive as to what the actual size of this car is. The car boasts the second largest amount of legroom of all the cars in BMWs lineup. The trunk is barely smaller then that of the X5. As you are starting to realize, this car is intended to haul goods and transport people.

However, a great deal of attention has been paid to the details and its transport duties are meant to be done in the utmost of comfort, style and ease. The rear seats can be arranged in either a 2 seat or 3 seat combination with a dual lift tailgate in a hatchback style.

The styling of the car is all BMW, with the familiar large kidney grills that have passed into every car in the lineup. Cues are of course taken from the CS concept car but with a unique 5 series spin. The car is also featuring BMWs black panel technology upon which the instruments light up when needed. Its a nice mixture of technology and style. The car will be available in 530d, 535i and 550i trim.

Thanks
Porte Per Garage
This is a great summary of the GT and where it blends into the current BMW lineup. I've been having a hard time explaining to my friends and family just exactly what I brought home from the dealership. I'm probably going to be borrowing this description a lot in the future. Thanks @jimmyjjohn

I really like this discussion of the type of fuel to use for these fantastic vehicles. I look forward to learning a ton for the combined experience of each driver. Great knowledge base!

Last edited by hungryninja; 09-30-2013 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Forgot quote
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2013, 11:53 PM
1STBimmer 1STBimmer is offline
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My 2012 550 has been sitting at the dealer for 10 days now for the same issue. the car 'balked' a lot when doing 40-45mph on 8th gear (between 1000 and 1500 rpm). Didn't have any lights on when i took it in but now they reflashed the ECU and they say it does (i've not driven it since). Last update is that they're waiting on a new 'electronic component' to replace after opening a PUMA case and having BMWNA take a look at the issue.

KD7 - With 4 times in for service unable to fix the problem I'd be looking at having a consult with a lemon law attorney...good luck w/yours.
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  #21  
Old 10-01-2013, 11:35 AM
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Fish23 Fish23 is offline
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Ninja,

Welcome, Glad that you are onboard.

I trust that you have (or will) read all the F07 posts from the beginning. When I joined I did that and learned many valuable tips from my fellow GT'ers that I did not get from my salesman, the owner's manual, or the service department.
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  #22  
Old 10-04-2013, 11:47 PM
hungryninja hungryninja is offline
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Chevron responses- Techron - Direct Injection &amp; ?'s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish23 View Post
Ninja,

Welcome, Glad that you are onboard.

I trust that you have (or will) read all the F07 posts from the beginning. When I joined I did that and learned many valuable tips from my fellow GT'ers that I did not get from my salesman, the owner's manual, or the service department.
It's funny how much slower the sales rep responses are after the sale is done. I can find much better responses collectively from people who have had the same questions that I have had.

I guess another reason that the reps might have been stumped with a few GT specific questions because they rarely have a chance to go in depth with these vehicles due to the rare nature of their presence on the lots.


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  #23  
Old 10-05-2013, 05:57 AM
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daders daders is offline
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Mein Auto: 2010 F07 550i, 2009 B8 A4
Ha! If I were an SA I'd probably annoy the customer trying to teach them all the cool tricks and techniques I knew...
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:32 PM
katiesdad7 katiesdad7 is offline
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Location: Stuart, Florida
 
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Mein Auto: 2011 550I GT
My 550 still hesitates. I took the dealer's GM for a ride and he will have the regional rep come and take a ride with me to see if this is something inherent in this vehicle or an actual problem. I suggested that we take another 550 out but since we have such a rare car there were none to compare it to.

I'll keep you updated.
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:59 PM
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What about a 550 F10? Same engine... Better yet a short wheel base 7 series then same engine and chassis?
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