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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:36 AM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Meyle HD vs. OEM REAR SUBFRAME BUSHINGS

I'm ready to do my rear subframe mounts. Has anyone used the Meyle HD subframe bush and can comment on any difference in ride (not accounting that you changed out shot bushes). If the HD's are solid rubber unlike the OEM fluid filled, I want to make sure the ride quality is very acceptable or compatible to OEM. I know the difference in the similar thrust arm bush comparison the difference is noticeable. i've read all the posts but have not seen any comparisons but to longevity. *Thanks* 2002 540it sport
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:54 PM
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bin01123 bin01123 is offline
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I can tell you that I went with the Meyle parts for my frontend suspension overhaul. The car feels a lot better than it did when it had 30K miles. I would use Meyle on all rubber bushings that need to be replaced when possible.
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:38 PM
Mikes530 Mikes530 is offline
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No personal experience but for what it's worth I asked a local indie the same question. He has worked exclusively on BMWs for 30+ yrs and also runs a BMW racing team. He said that he has stopped using Meyle parts because he had so many complaints. Just one person's opinion....
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  #4  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:33 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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I changed mine out w/ Lemforder's about 30k ago. I don't recall any dramatic improvement in ride, but my 32 & 65 mph vibrations were gone and no more banging on moderate bumps.
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  #5  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:50 AM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Meyle HD vs "BMW"

That front end feel can be subjective to each individual. Solid front end bushings to the chassis do transmit more road feel. The harder the bushing material, the more vibration transmission. I have been told offline that with the 4 rear subframe mounts that I am replacing, most people who use the solid rubber Meyle HD's were satisfied with the ride quality after installation. I have had more than several indy BMW master mechanics say only use BMW factory parts. One reason is when repairing a customer car, it won't come back due to cheap parts. That statement came true when I replaced my rad expansion tank with a Meyle tank. I saw a made in China tag on the outside of the box and installed it anyway. Little over a year later it leaked on a seam. R&R'd the cooling system with a BMW factory tank, still on the car. The BMW part was physically different from the Meyle part. I'll add a closing comment here after I do the 4 rear mounts and drive a few miles.
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2013, 05:03 AM
Dackelone Dackelone is offline
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Lemforder are a MUCH better product than Meyle. You should definitely go with Lemforder!

I think I would be temped to use M5 rear bushings though, if you don't mind a sportier ride and the slight increase in NVH.


I am also sold on using only BMW bought parts. The aftermarket OEM-like are just that. They look OE but they can not stand up to the test of time or miles. I hate doing the same job twice. I will only use BMW dealer parts.

Last edited by Dackelone; 03-16-2013 at 05:05 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:24 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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rear subframe mounts

Are Lemforder aftermarket bushings as good a quality as "BMW" factory bushings?
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:36 PM
Dackelone Dackelone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thBMW View Post
Are Lemforder aftermarket bushings as good a quality as "BMW" factory bushings?

For thrust rod bushing... I would ONLY use BMW dealer bought bushings. Don't mess around with aftermarket parts.
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2013, 04:53 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Front end feel? This thread is about rear subframe bushings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thBMW View Post
......That front end feel can be subjective to each individual. Solid front end bushings to the chassis do transmit more road feel. The harder the bushing material, the more vibration transmission.............
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2013, 05:31 AM
kingbled kingbled is offline
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I went with lems some time ago
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:27 AM
BAJAman703 BAJAman703 is offline
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Got tools?

I'm also in the midst of fighting these 32MPH & 65-70MPH crazy vibrations from the rear end (also coupled with a running on/non dampening vibration when you run over a bump in the rear). Pretty much concluded that these rear subframe mounts (most people are calling them bushings, but technically, they're mounts) are the culprits.

I have an auto repair shop here in Ft. Lauderdale and while we don't specialize in German autos, we do our fair share. I was a little disheartened when we didn't have the special tool required to remove and install these mounts. I called 3 of our German auto tech shops that we're friendly with and I felt much better knowing that they don't have this outrageously priced tool either! Anyway, after we're done doing my mounts (which I'm also, like a few of my other E39 brothers in arms did herein, replacing with the great Lemforders PN: 33 31 1 094 036) I'll have this fantastic tool available for sale/rent.

BTW, the BMW tool kit PN is: 83 30 0 492 407

Keep me in mind if you or anyone you know will need it

Last edited by BAJAman703; 03-20-2013 at 09:31 AM. Reason: forgot a word
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:30 PM
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Topaz540i Topaz540i is offline
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Tool is a must have. Job is impossible without it. Even with the correct tool it took superman like force to get them out turning with a two foot breaker bar and im a big guy.
Btw, no noticeable improvement in ride. Really the same. At first i thought i had less on the gas off the gas drivetrain slack but appears to have been wishful thinking...
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:44 PM
Aussie528iT Aussie528iT is offline
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The rear subframe bushes I bought came in a Lemforder box with a Lemforder part No. The bush inside was identical to the original BMW part even to the point that the BMW logo and part no had been partially removed but enough of it was left to show it was exactly the same as the "genuine" part. The bushes are not just fluid filled. They have a damper valve built into the lower part of the bush which controls the subframe "torque wind up" when you accelerate and brake. If you look carefully between the bottom of the bush and the large steel bump plate underneath it you can see any cracks in the rubber. If these are cracked the fluid and damping action is long gone. This allows the subframe to hit the underside of the load area floor. Hence the crashing and banging. Its more pronounced if you hit a rut that both rear wheels cross at the same time. If the gap between the bottom plate and the underside of the bush is more than 4-5mm (1/8 to3/16") then your bushes have probably had it. I didn't know about the solid bushes until after I replaced mine. Next time?????

RonR
99 528iT M52TU

Last edited by Aussie528iT; 03-20-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-22-2013, 04:33 AM
BAJAman703 BAJAman703 is offline
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Well Topaz, we agree the tool isn't even an option. After looking at the design of the mounts, we figure extracting wouldn't be impossible - we've done similar here at my shop, but reinstalling would be a nightmare without the tool. That was confirmed with our convos with our local Euro specialty shops who've tried it without the tool.

In respect to the "no noticeable difference in ride", keep in mind, I'm not just looking for a super smooth ride I can cut a diamond on, I'm having a SEVERE issue with vibration - to the point that any other trained technician would initially insist that there's an out of round/separating tire in the back. I've swapped wheels, tires, installed new tires and repositioned the wheels on the car (front to rear & left to right) just for good measure. I do know these mounts are cracked badly and when we leverage a breaker bar in the mount/frame there is WAY too much movement. To test the theory, we loosened each of the mounts and wedged used sway link bushings in between the mount and the bottom cap. We torqued the bolts down again just to see what would happen: The crazy bouncing at 65+ was all but gone and the vibration "run on" after hitting any bumps in the rear was about 75% better.

We're very confident these Lemforder mounts are every bit as good as the OE BMW. I'll follow up next week when we complete the repairs. I'm STILL waiting on the tool we ordered from our BMW dealer. Evidently there was only one more of these kits in the US and it was coming from PA. Looking forward to seeing the tool kit today or Monday at the latest.
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  #15  
Old 03-22-2013, 05:22 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Sound like your 65 MPH vibration was much worse then mine. I had the "run-on" problem also, but not until banging over bumps got real bad. Not sure why you would want to buy the tool. There are several here who rent it for a fraction of the purchase cost. I used a homemade tool modeled after the one shown in the TIS. The tool is far more important for removal. Installation is a piece of all-thread, (2) plates and a nut. I didn't have nearly the difficulty Topaz had, but he's got a sedan.
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  #16  
Old 03-22-2013, 05:34 AM
BAJAman703 BAJAman703 is offline
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Yep, the vibration is unreal. The reason I bought the tool is 3 fold: 1) I didn't want to wait 6-8 weeks to rent it from one of our fellow Bimmerfest brothers. 2) I have an auto repair shop and buying a $300 tool is just one of those necessary evils at times. 3) I know I could always resell it to someone here or eBay or rent it out like some of the other guys here.

You're right though. If Topaz has a sedan vs the wagon, these mounts are a different monster with a different effect when they're shot. Also, I appreciate the tip in respect to the removal vs. installation. Removing worn bushings that you're going to replace is typically not a big worry for us becuase you can butcher them up all you want to - since you're not going to save them for anything anyway. We were expecting the new ones to be hard to get started even with the tool. Sounds like you have the experience and a few other threads I've read are all about in agreement, just lube the hell out of them to get them started and PB the hell out of the old ones to get them out a little eaiser.
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  #17  
Old 03-22-2013, 07:34 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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OK, I forgot you run a shop, the economics are a little different then with DIYer's. I can afford to spend 2 weeks, part time making a tool I'll only use once. I was able to remove the old bushings without any lube. The tearing sound was a little unnerving, but bushings/mounts come out in one piece. Noise seemed to be the assembly lube/adhesive breaking loose. You'll need the P80 assembly lube to reinstall. It's available on ebay and is a water based material that seems to setsup and dry like latex paint. While wet it's a lubricant and then dries like paint to help hold bushings in place. Starting bushing/mounts on reassembly was not an issue, nor was installation effort very high. I would resist the urge to use any oil based lube during removal, it will have to be completely for the P80 to work.
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:04 AM
BAJAman703 BAJAman703 is offline
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Irony of irony(s)... the tool just arrived from BMW and one of the main components needed (the clamp part) was not included in the kit! All we can do is laugh about it and be thankful this is my personal vehicle and not a paying customer's car!

Duly noted on the P80 lube. Thanks!! I may contacting YOU for the rental of the tool you made if BMW has dropped the ball on me
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  #19  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:03 AM
Aussie528iT Aussie528iT is offline
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You don't need any lube to remove the bushes. BMW specifies "Circolight" lubricant for the installation. My hard copy parts list gives mineral turpentine as an alternative. What is Circolight? Its a petroleum byproduct used in the rubber industry. What is mineral turpentine? Its also a petroleum byproduct. Its basically the same stuff. I tested both natural turpentine oil and mineral turpentine on the old bushes. Same result. It softens the rubber for a day or so and when it evaporates the rubber returns to normal. I coated the bushes where they go into the subfame using the mineral turpentine. The bushes pressed in easily and haven't moved since - 4+ years ago. Others who have used soapy water have found the bushes started to come out of the subframe. I made my own tool using the TIS sketches and measured the new bushes and the subframe to make it work.

Re vibrations: I felt a lot of vibration through the seat and floor area. Also when I braked to a stop the rear subframe would wind up and then the car would move as it unwound even though the brakes were still applied. The body moved but the wheels didn't. Both these problems disappeared with the new bushes. Its an auto so with a manual transmission you may not notice the wind up/unwind as once the clutch is disengaged there is no drive force acting on the driveline and subframe.

Hope this helps
RonR
99 528iT M52TU

Last edited by Aussie528iT; 03-23-2013 at 12:12 AM. Reason: added vibration and windup info
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  #20  
Old 03-23-2013, 04:22 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Return it and buy this one.

http://www.kochtools.com/index.php?p=product&id=153


Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJAman703 View Post
.......Irony of irony(s)... the tool just arrived from BMW and one of the main components needed (the clamp part) was not included in the kit! ........
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  #21  
Old 03-23-2013, 06:57 AM
BAJAman703 BAJAman703 is offline
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I'm on it!! Thanks
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  #22  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:21 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Franklin tool

That Franklin tool I rented pulled the sub-frame mounts out easily and replacing with very little 'lube' was easy from an effort standpoint as well. Just took some time and cranking a wrench. I also R&R's the rear shock mounts at the same time. Even though most of the old sub-frame mounts looked good, the rear end felt better. The old shock mounts that I had not replaced with new shocks were noticeably compacted. Net net the ride is better after 500 miles.
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