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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #76  
Old 11-26-2012, 05:46 AM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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Mein Auto: 1998 M3, 2004 545i
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete745li View Post
is there any tips for the rotor snake procedure in the tube of the check valve. Do you have to feel for a crevice or indentation as the wire rope goes into the sas port.
You have to remove the check valves in order to route the wire into the chambers in the N62 heads. No way you are going to get a wire through the check valve.

I tackled this over the long weekend. It's been soaking in Sea Foam and BG44K for a couple of days now. A few more days and then I'll put everything back together and see if it did any good.

One ray of hope in my situation is that I know I'm getting at least some flow through the chambers because I removed the exhaust from the headers/cats and operated the air pump using INPA. I got airflow through both headers, although the flow for bank 2 was considerably less than bank 1. If I was getting zero flow I'd just bite the bullet and remove the heads and drill out the carbon. As it is, maybe the Sea Foam can open up the passages enough to do some good. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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  #77  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:21 PM
pete745li pete745li is offline
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p0491 and p0492

I did remove the valves. My passenger side was getting air flow out the tail pipe. But my driver side was not. i followed the steps of robz and fratan. I made a home made tool to blow compressed air through the tube where the valve sits. air out passenger side tailpipe but none on driverside tailpipe. I put some chevron concentrate techron cleaner 1/4 of a bottle then got a 3/16 wire cable from lowes and snaked in the tube after 30 min of soaking. took out wire and it had a lot of deposit on it. Still no air through pipe. So thats when my home tool came in handy. I made it with sprinklers parts. pvc pipes and barb adapters, with a rubber gourmet at the tip so it sits on the check valve tube and does not let compressed air escape as i press down on the home made tool and inject air in. I made tool with a blow gun like fratan. I was able to get air out the driverside tail pipe. my wife said the air pressure feels the same on both tailpipes. feels like a house fan blowing. I dont know how much pressure there has to be blowing out the tail pipes in order for the passage way(s) to be clean.
does any know how the pressure should feel coming out the tailpipes once the passage way(s) are clean. And does anyone know how many passage ways there are where the check valves inject the air down the tube into the exhaust. Will put everything back and post if cel light if off with code p0491 and p0492.
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  #78  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:59 PM
fratan fratan is offline
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Pete,
If you had no air coming from the drivers side and now you do then you should be good to go. The tool you made is the key to blowing the air through to the exhaust. We had no air coming out of the drivers side but after 3 days of soaking the chamber with Seafoam and another cleaner we were able to get air to flow through. Not alot of air only a little. After, we reset the Check Engine and waited for about 2 weeks with no codes, we knew we were there.
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  #79  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:50 PM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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When I bought this car I had the P0491 code. I was told by the PO that it comes on every once in a while and then go off.. anyway, I was getting the low battery when I bought the car so I changed it and had it programmed.. the code came on before I did the battery the day after I bought the car. I cleared it and got the battery a few days later.. It's been over a month and no light, does this mean it was the battery? Perhaps running the pump low? Because I did notice with the old batt (Original battery) that when I started the car the starter seemed a little sluggish like you get with a low batt. The only other thing I did after the battery change was when light came on I went and put a bottle of techron in, and have been filling with nothing but 91 Chevron which I do on all my cars.. Also changed the plugs a couple weeks ago.

Last edited by cmpcpro; 11-26-2012 at 11:51 PM.
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  #80  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:17 AM
fratan fratan is offline
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What year is your car and the miles. In my research of the N62, is that around 100,000 miles the valve stem seals need to be replaced causing the car to smoke when idle. I believe that if the car is driven in the city that this idle causes the heads to be built up with carbon and it is just a matter of time before the 0491 codes appear. My 2006 750 i which has the 4.8 liter engine has just started to smoke. It has 106,000 but the good news is the state inspection doesn't monitor the secondary air system so getting a sticker doesn't pose an issue. The 2004 7 series, which is my wifes car, needs to pass the secondary air monitor so getting rid of the code is critical to having the car legal. The strange thing about the secondary air system is it only heats up the cats when its cold and doesn't effect performance of the vehicle.
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  #81  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:07 AM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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My car is an 03 and it just turned 130k.. (130,500).. I'm wondering if the PO fixed it? He had the water pump replaced around 80k at the dealer under the 100k warranty, it was there for 8 days but they swear it was just the pump.. but it may have been after 100k at an indy.. I can tell you the motor looks brand new.. it's a little dusty, but it looks nothing like the motors on this board.. you can read all the stickers on the heads, see the head gaskets, it's all clean, also a white splotch of paint on the pass side head..

Last edited by cmpcpro; 11-27-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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  #82  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Max View Post
You have to remove the check valves in order to route the wire into the chambers in the N62 heads. No way you are going to get a wire through the check valve.

I tackled this over the long weekend. It's been soaking in Sea Foam and BG44K for a couple of days now. A few more days and then I'll put everything back together and see if it did any good.

One ray of hope in my situation is that I know I'm getting at least some flow through the chambers because I removed the exhaust from the headers/cats and operated the air pump using INPA. I got airflow through both headers, although the flow for bank 2 was considerably less than bank 1. If I was getting zero flow I'd just bite the bullet and remove the heads and drill out the carbon. As it is, maybe the Sea Foam can open up the passages enough to do some good. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Fail. Looks like I'm going to be pulling the heads. Good thing I generally like working on cars, because that looks like a b*tch of a job.
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  #83  
Old 02-24-2013, 01:00 PM
LDC5 LDC5 is offline
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Does change in o2 sensor reading cause p0491? I realize the fault code is with secondary air port, but my 01/08 build N62, with 80k miles, I'm getting the p0491 fault code and have gone through the trouble shooting list, starting with fuse, then air pump, then air pipe under intake manifold to the 2ndary air valve. All these tested or look good. So I am down to the air port within the cylinder head, but looking into the port with a mirror & flashlight. Don't have bore scope, but the entrance end of the port is only lightly coated with carbon and do not see significant carbon buildup. Therefore, before pulling off the cylinder head, I'm wondering if changing or cleaning off the o2 sensor(s) would be a solution.

Last edited by LDC5; 02-24-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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  #84  
Old 02-24-2013, 01:37 PM
fratan fratan is offline
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My understanding is that you wouldn't be able to see the carbon build up on the heads the way that you described. I researched the p0491 for months and brought my 04 745 into the BMW dealer for $1,000.00 to change the y pipes to the SAS system for them to tell me that the heads were clogged.
Are you trying to pass inspection? How long have you gotten the p0491?
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  #85  
Old 02-24-2013, 05:21 PM
LDC5 LDC5 is offline
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Hi Fratan
I've had the P0491 fault code since last summer, and do need to pass Mass State inspection. After checking the simple items, I removed the intake manifold to inspect the plastic 2ndary air line under the manifold, since Bentley's Service Manual indicates this tube as a common remedy for P0491/92 codes. However, my 2ndary air lines from pump to valves are good. An unexpected side benefit of removing the manifold unveiled I had a broken small plastic y-fitting within the cooling line that runs under the Intake manifold.

This service effort is also to fix some oil leaks I've had, which I replaced the gasket behind the alternator mounting brkt. Now, I have the valve cover off to install new VC gaskets, along with misc o-rings. This work has grown since starting, but I have a backup vehicle to get back & forth to work. I bought the vehicle new and typically keep my vehicles for 10+ years, and as a DYI'er for as much as I can, I like to do things once. So, before embarking on the next hurdle (removing the cylinder heads and dissembling the valve train to mechanically clean the ports), I am exploring to ensure there are no other sound options.

Last edited by LDC5; 02-24-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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  #86  
Old 02-24-2013, 06:07 PM
fratan fratan is offline
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OK, Here is what I recommend trying. In Mass to pass emissions, you can have one monitor to be in a state of un-readiness. Usually the evap and Sec. Air System monitors are the last 2 to reset on these e65's. The Secondary Air is last on my wife's 04 745i.

Go to Amazon, and get a autel obd2 code reader, cheap, 20 bucks or so to read your obd2 and reset error codes. Reset the error codes. Check everyday until the EVAP system is ready but the Sec Air System isn't. You'll have to read up on how to get your car's ready monitors working quickly. The computer runs through a volume of tests.

You have about 15-20 miles until the check engine for the Sec.Air Sys. code comes back on. If the Check engine comes on before the evap is ready then you'll need to do the rotor router cleaning with the seafoam and wire brush and air compressor. The key is to try and get all monitors ready except for the Sec. Air System and hook your car to the states computer before it throws a code.

If that doesn't work. Try and get the carbon off the heads as stated in this thread.

If you can't do it, then bring your car to Hyannis and I'll have my son give it a shot. He'll need the car for a few days to soak the chambers with SEAFOAM unless you want to pull the heads yourself. He said it would take about 20-30 hours to pull them and put them back in .

We're thinking of doing this to my wife's car because she needs valve stem seals. Do the valve stem seals and clean the carbon off the heads your set for life.
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  #87  
Old 02-24-2013, 06:16 PM
fratan fratan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDC5 View Post
Hi Fratan
I've had the P0491 fault code since last summer, and do need to pass Mass State inspection. After checking the simple items, I removed the intake manifold to inspect the plastic 2ndary air line under the manifold, since Bentley's Service Manual indicates this tube as a common remedy for P0491/92 codes. However, my 2ndary air lines from pump to valves are good. An unexpected side benefit of removing the manifold unveiled I had a broken small plastic y-fitting within the cooling line that runs under the Intake manifold.

This service effort is also to fix some oil leaks I've had, which I replaced the gasket behind the alternator mounting brkt. Now, I have the valve cover off to install new VC gaskets, along with misc o-rings. This work has grown since starting, but I have a backup vehicle to get back & forth to work. I bought the vehicle new and typically keep my vehicles for 10+ years, and as a DYI'er for as much as I can, I like to do things once. So, before embarking on the next hurdle (removing the cylinder heads and dissembling the valve train to mechanically clean the ports), I am exploring to ensure there are no other sound options.
That broken plastic y fitting could be the culprit. Reset codes and wait a week or so until your ready monitors come back on. If you still get the codes, you'll need to read up on this thread and learn the soaking of air chamber trick as discussed in this thread.:thumbup

Also, the P0491 and p0492 codes doesn't effect the performance of the e65. It is only when the car starts that the Sec. Air is used to heat the CATS to burn the fuel better. The problem is the state emission test looking for the sec. air monitor. For instance, the state doesn't look at the Sec. Air monitor for my 2006, it is not applicable.
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Last edited by fratan; 02-24-2013 at 06:24 PM.
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  #88  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:30 AM
svett svett is offline
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bump

Last edited by svett; 03-06-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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  #89  
Old 03-06-2013, 11:26 AM
svett svett is offline
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Mein Auto: 09 X5, 05 545i
P0491

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete745li View Post
I did remove the valves. My passenger side was getting air flow out the tail pipe. But my driver side was not. i followed the steps of robz and fratan. I made a home made tool to blow compressed air through the tube where the valve sits. air out passenger side tailpipe but none on driverside tailpipe. I put some chevron concentrate techron cleaner 1/4 of a bottle then got a 3/16 wire cable from lowes and snaked in the tube after 30 min of soaking. took out wire and it had a lot of deposit on it. Still no air through pipe. So thats when my home tool came in handy. I made it with sprinklers parts. pvc pipes and barb adapters, with a rubber gourmet at the tip so it sits on the check valve tube and does not let compressed air escape as i press down on the home made tool and inject air in. I made tool with a blow gun like fratan. I was able to get air out the driverside tail pipe. my wife said the air pressure feels the same on both tailpipes. feels like a house fan blowing. I dont know how much pressure there has to be blowing out the tail pipes in order for the passage way(s) to be clean.
does any know how the pressure should feel coming out the tailpipes once the passage way(s) are clean. And does anyone know how many passage ways there are where the check valves inject the air down the tube into the exhaust. Will put everything back and post if cel light if off with code p0491 and p0492.
I sent you a PM Pete
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  #90  
Old 03-10-2013, 12:17 PM
svett svett is offline
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P0491 CEL comes on every 2 weeks, once reset

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Max View Post
Just wanted to say thanks to Fratan and Robz for documenting this. I've been chasing the dragon trying to fix the recurring P0491 code on my 545i. I have a feeling clogged chambers are the problem, since the pump works fine and I have already replaced the y-pipe.
I agree with Stephen, thanks guys!

A question if I may please Stephen:
I have a bank 1 error I am trying to fix and have been through everything but a smoke test for a cracked Y pipes (which is next) and this clogged ports.

How do I get the Seafoam into the secondary air system? We took the headlight off (PITA BTW) and I see the air pump. The flow was strong when I started the car fwiw. Do I just pour about 2-3 oz of Seafoam into the pump? Should the car be warmed up? Let it soak for 8+ hours? Did you jack up the car?

Thanks bro!
Steve
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  #91  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:02 PM
Robz_745 Robz_745 is offline
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I would be cautious putting any solvents throught the Air Pump (beneath the air cleaner box) or the Y pipe. Not sure what types of plastics are used and if the solvents would eat through them or weaken them.

After the intially clearing the passages on my car, I have not had any Secondary Air Codes and I put on over 500 miles a week on her. I still think the SA problem is linked to valve stems leaking oil down into the exhaust ports where the secondary air passages dump into.
Just my 2 cents.
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  #92  
Old 03-15-2013, 06:42 AM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svett View Post
I agree with Stephen, thanks guys!

A question if I may please Stephen:
I have a bank 1 error I am trying to fix and have been through everything but a smoke test for a cracked Y pipes (which is next) and this clogged ports.

How do I get the Seafoam into the secondary air system? We took the headlight off (PITA BTW) and I see the air pump. The flow was strong when I started the car fwiw. Do I just pour about 2-3 oz of Seafoam into the pump? Should the car be warmed up? Let it soak for 8+ hours? Did you jack up the car?

Thanks bro!
Steve
Sorry for the late reply. The way I did it was to remove the intake manifold, the y-pipe and the check valves. That leaves the tubes going to the heads available for pouring your chemical of choice into, and you can run an engine cleaning brush in there as well to get at the carbon in the heads. But like I said, it didn't work for me.

I have bought all the gaskets, cylinder head bolts and valve seals, so in the next week or two I will be pulling the heads and getting at the carbon the traditional way. I'll let the forum know how that goes.
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  #93  
Old 03-16-2013, 11:10 AM
LDC5 LDC5 is offline
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Hi Stephen,
I have been scoping this job out myself too, and have come down to pulling the heads and installing new valve seals. For your planning, did you also buy the BMW specialty tool for aligning the VANOS (camshaft)? The overall savings in being a DIY, as compared to having this job done, won't necessarily break the bank by buying the tool, but I hate to spend $250-300 for the tool set when I will only use it once. I live just north of Boston and have been looking for some place that rents specialty BMW tools or share the cost with someone.

-DC
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  #94  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:48 PM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDC5 View Post
Hi Stephen,
I have been scoping this job out myself too, and have come down to pulling the heads and installing new valve seals. For your planning, did you also buy the BMW specialty tool for aligning the VANOS (camshaft)? The overall savings in being a DIY, as compared to having this job done, won't necessarily break the bank by buying the tool, but I hate to spend $250-300 for the tool set when I will only use it once. I live just north of Boston and have been looking for some place that rents specialty BMW tools or share the cost with someone.

-DC

I did buy it. I found two sets, one for around $200 and the other for around $300. The higher priced set included a wrench that you bolt onto the end of the crankshaft and an angle indicator so you can turn the crank a precise number of degrees. I'm thinking that is for working on the V12 engines, I can't figure why you would need it for the V8. Anyway, I ended up buying the $200 set. I like buying tools, I'd rather own a set than borrow even if I use it infrequently.
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  #95  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:01 PM
LDC5 LDC5 is offline
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Hi Stephen,
How did you select the head gasket thickness? Gaskets offered for my vintage N62 (01/2004 build 545i) come in two different thickness ( 0.75mm and 1.05mm ). Since I prefer to have all parts in hand before removing the heads, I'm not sure what thickness to buy.

-DC
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  #96  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:35 AM
Stephen Max Stephen Max is offline
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The thicker head gasket would be needed if you have the heads flycut to remove any warpage of the heads, for instance after over-heating the engine due to a cooling system failure. If you aren't going to machine the heads, use the thinner gasket.
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  #97  
Old 03-19-2013, 01:18 PM
LDC5 LDC5 is offline
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Thanks….that's what I thought, but wanted to double check.
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  #98  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:11 PM
svett svett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Max View Post
Sorry for the late reply. The way I did it was to remove the intake manifold, the y-pipe and the check valves. That leaves the tubes going to the heads available for pouring your chemical of choice into, and you can run an engine cleaning brush in there as well to get at the carbon in the heads. But like I said, it didn't work for me.

I have bought all the gaskets, cylinder head bolts and valve seals, so in the next week or two I will be pulling the heads and getting at the carbon the traditional way. I'll let the forum know how that goes.
Okay thanks, god love ya starting this massive project. I wish you well, take some pics of these clogged ports and your steps please. I was told by RobZ_745 that I can just build some tools and take off just the SAS valves at the back of the motor w/out removing the intake? Really?

Steve
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  #99  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:45 PM
LDC5 LDC5 is offline
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Thanks. I will take pix, but I may be at least 2-3 wks away from tackling it. There's been too many other things interrupting my ability to dive into it over a long weekend.
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  #100  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:02 AM
svett svett is offline
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Sas cel p0491

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Max View Post
The thicker head gasket would be needed if you have the heads flycut to remove any warpage of the heads, for instance after over-heating the engine due to a cooling system failure. If you aren't going to machine the heads, use the thinner gasket.
Hey Stephen & other frustrated folks....
I posted on another thread a more helpful fix:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...19#post7485319

I have an appt set to have the AGA guys perform this fix detailed in their video for me, I live right up the road. Will keep you posted on outcome.

Steve
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