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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > M Series > E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)

E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)
4th generation E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe and E93 M3 convertible. The last of the naturally aspirated M3s, powered by a 4.0 liter V8 making 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque.

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  #1  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:41 AM
mermar mermar is offline
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Feeback wanted: Those that moved from tuned 335/535 to M3 - do you miss the torque??

I am considering moving to a 2012 or 2013 M3 - from a Cobb tuned 535. My fear is that I will miss the plentiful torque available at such low revs with a tuned n54.

I would select a DCT equipped M3. My only current expereince with the E90 M3 is when I drove a 6mt last year - I remember being suprised at how it was necessary to rev the 't_ts" off it to get to the real power. Very typical of a proper race engine. (reminds me of my days riding a 125 or 250 cc two stroke mx bike).

So as I ponder waiting for the new M3/M4 or driving the NA v8 model for a few years while I wait for the early bugs to be worked out of the new version - Im concerned I will miss the torque that my tuned n54 provides.

Anxious to hear what others who have transitioned from a tuned n54 to a NA V8 M3 have to say.

thanks
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:27 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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i dont miss anything about any car i have driven (RR sport, e60 535i, f10 550 w/ dinan stage 2) compared to the m3. you have to wring it out sure, but whats wrong with that? mashing on the gas pedal is so pedestrian.

it's an exotic. treat it accordingly
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:59 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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I went N54 -> N55 -> S65. Do I miss the low down torque of the turbo engines? No. Is the S65 perfect? Yes.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:19 PM
e93user e93user is offline
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I went from my '09 335i to the '13 M3 last Friday night. I did miss the torque for about one day while I learned about the DCT trans S button (set to 3) and the power button (set on). I don't miss it any more, and there is just so much more of everything on this car.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:56 AM
mermar mermar is offline
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Originally Posted by e93user View Post
I went from my '09 335i to the '13 M3 last Friday night. I did miss the torque for about one day while I learned about the DCT trans S button (set to 3) and the power button (set on). I don't miss it any more, and there is just so much more of everything on this car.
Thats exactly the feedback I was looking for. Keep me posted now that it has been a week - as I plan to make a similar transition.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:20 AM
e93user e93user is offline
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Originally Posted by mermar View Post
Thats exactly the feedback I was looking for. Keep me posted now that it has been a week - as I plan to make a similar transition.
Okay, here's a little more detail based on my transition and initial impressions. For context, my '09 335i was an auto trans and untuned. Both the '09 335i and the '13 M3 were/are convertibles with factory option 19" wheels.

Things I miss about the 335i:
Somewhat less cabin noise on smooth roads
Foglights
Gas mileage
Healthier bank balance

Things superior about the M3 so far:
Adjustability (suspension with EDC, DCT shift points, power, steering)
Mid and high range power (where the 335i flattened out, the M3 has barely begun)
Ride smoothness on less than smooth roads (surprised me and probably due partly to 335i run flat tires)
Effortless cornering (even though the 335i was no slouch)
"M" button - feels like I have 2 cars (daily driver and road racer)

Good luck on your decision. I have no regrets on mine thus far.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:37 AM
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Even from day 1 of the swap, I didn't miss the torque. But, I'm also not one to fret about keeping the tach in the 6K range. YMMV.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:02 PM
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335 did have a bit more torque, but the power band of the M3 is so wide, it just keeps going, and going, and going. Also, the turbo six can't compete with the V8 soundwise. All in all, I don't miss the negligible amount of torque difference. If anything the power output in the M3 is smoother and more enjoyable.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2013, 02:57 PM
mermar mermar is offline
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Excellent feedback guys - Im struggling with the decision to buy a NA v8 M3 or wait for the new 2014/2015 version. I feel I owe it to myself to expereince a real NA racing engine. Im hoping for that 'over the top' instant throttle response experience that comes when the engine is warm and the ambient temps are cool.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:22 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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I had a 335i MT and I would categorize the experience as "fun" . My M3 is sublime. The M3 is one of the finest sports/GT cars produced in the last 20 years regardless of price and/or brand. The coming M3/M4 will have to be very good indeed to fill the "Bigfoot" sized shoes of the current M3.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:29 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Why sweat? You have plenty of time to own both. The new M3 will likely not be priced decently until 2015 and then another six months or so before we know if it's build quality is up to par. And yes, every car enthusiast should have the pleasure of owning the current M3. The engine is truly amazing and I guess that never again will you see it's like in a car below $100k.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:48 AM
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enigma enigma is offline
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I don't understand people complaining about lack of torque in the M3. There is a wide band of torque past 3k all the way to 7.5k. You don't have to rev it to redline to have fun... even if you keep your rev between 4k and 6k, you are having plenty of fun.

If prefer this characteristic of an NA engine over the N55, which runs out of breath after around 5.5k.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:08 PM
johndong888 johndong888 is offline
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I went from N54 -> S65. Torque with Cobb was so amazing. Loved it! I knew that going into the S65, I was going to lose a decent amount of torque but after revving that S65, I have absolutely no regrets. That and the lines of the m3s are so much better

Btw, First Post! Thank you!

John
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:33 PM
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I went from '11 335is to '13 M3 both E92. At 1st I did miss the torque but once you learn how to drive an M3 you won't. This M3 is it in cars which is why it has won every comparison test in car mags.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:56 PM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I don't understand people complaining about lack of torque in the M3. There is a wide band of torque past 3k all the way to 7.5k. You don't have to rev it to redline to have fun... even if you keep your rev between 4k and 6k, you are having plenty of fun.

If prefer this characteristic of an NA engine over the N55, which runs out of breath after around 5.5k.
I don't understand the lack of torque thing too....if you give it a little gas when engaging first gear than usual, thing shoots pretty damn fast.

I guess maybe in lower rpms in a higher gear? I always downshift to whatever my needs are and its plenty damn fast.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:03 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Just listen to the E90 M3 in the two videos in this very recent footage. Especially the second downhill clip with the glorious throttle blips and engine note. All the turbo cars sounds like sh*t in comparison including the F80. Instead of the crisp tight note of the S65 they have a loose blaaaarp and run lower revs. It's quite amazing though how composed the huge Panny is at the corner entry and exit. Unfortunately the F80 looks like the most out of shape in the first clip. Correction, that's a blue M5 that is almost up on two wheels not the F80 that actually looks very good but the sound isn't much to cheer about.

I'm very likely picking up an F80 next summer at he Welt but this footage is not making me very excited. So again, the current M3 is very, very special and I highly recommend it. The E9X platform is getting on in the years but the car is sublime and even if you just keep it until the new car is out you will be happy you had a chance to own a new one. That's my 2c.


Last edited by solstice; 04-01-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:20 AM
johndong888 johndong888 is offline
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Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
I don't understand the lack of torque thing too....if you give it a little gas when engaging first gear than usual, thing shoots pretty damn fast.

I guess maybe in lower rpms in a higher gear? I always downshift to whatever my needs are and its plenty damn fast.
Lol it's probably most definitely that. In first and second, the m3 is pretty freaking damn harsh. However at 2k rpm and at 6th or 7th, it's like chugging along lol.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:10 PM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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Originally Posted by johndong888 View Post
Lol it's probably most definitely that. In first and second, the m3 is pretty freaking damn harsh. However at 2k rpm and at 6th or 7th, it's like chugging along lol.
i drive freeways in 3rd gear. LOL - that way i have instant torque ha.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:46 PM
edge9 edge9 is offline
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S65b40

Depends on how you drive. Blow and over-square engines are always more forgiving if you not inclined to be as aware of your place in the power band. They are however IMHO just not as engaging to drive. I didnít buy a E92 M3, I bought a S65B40, it just happened to have a car wrapped around it to be legal.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:57 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Depends on how you drive. Blow and over-square engines are always more forgiving if you not inclined to be as aware of your place in the power band. They are however IMHO just not as engaging to drive. I didnít buy a E92 M3, I bought a S65B40, it just happened to have a car wrapped around it to be legal.
Hehe, I like that
How I wish BMW had decided to make the S65 the first of a permanent string of M3 engines. Just kept refining it with newer, lighter and stronger materials. Make it rev even higher etc. like Porsche's NA flat six in the 911. Just imagine what it would have been like taken the result of the current iteration, the very first and what looks to be the last iteration.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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slave2gravity slave2gravity is offline
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Well balls...this thread is making me second guess my decision to order a new 335i M-Sport last week... I sold my e39 M5 sedan due to age, miles and a pending newborn (our first) in August. I'd debated a CPO M3 in order to get the sedan, but couldn't find any manuals available and so I rationalized that I can't use 414hp on the road fully (and my wife will only let me track motorcycles, not our daily drivers).

Bugger...
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:43 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by slave2gravity View Post
Well balls...this thread is making me second guess my decision to order a new 335i M-Sport last week... I sold my e39 M5 sedan due to age, miles and a pending newborn (our first) in August. I'd debated a CPO M3 in order to get the sedan, but couldn't find any manuals available and so I rationalized that I can't use 414hp on the road fully (and my wife will only let me track motorcycles, not our daily drivers).

Bugger...
the 335i is a fantastic car. do not let anyone tell you other wise. plus the f30 probably has all the fancy bells and whistles.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:24 PM
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slave2gravity slave2gravity is offline
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the 335i is a fantastic car. do not let anyone tell you other wise. plus the f30 probably has all the fancy bells and whistles.
Well, between my wife and I, we did check all the boxes... Realistically, it's a rare day when I can use all the power and capability of an M car, at least that's how I felt with my e39 M5, that I know the 335i will be awesome. And if not, my bros got the e90 M3 20min away from me!
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:48 PM
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enigma enigma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slave2gravity View Post
Well balls...this thread is making me second guess my decision to order a new 335i M-Sport last week... I sold my e39 M5 sedan due to age, miles and a pending newborn (our first) in August. I'd debated a CPO M3 in order to get the sedan, but couldn't find any manuals available and so I rationalized that I can't use 414hp on the road fully (and my wife will only let me track motorcycles, not our daily drivers).

Bugger...
The 335i is an excellent car (though I am still not sold on the EPS), but it's interesting how so many people mention they can't use all the power from the Ms on public roads. Where in the metropolitan Bay Area can you use all the power from the 335i?
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:02 PM
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slave2gravity slave2gravity is offline
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Originally Posted by enigma View Post
The 335i is an excellent car (though I am still not sold on the EPS), but it's interesting how so many people mention they can't use all the power from the Ms on public roads. Where in the metropolitan Bay Area can you use all the power from the 335i?
Yeah, I don't like EPS, either. I walked away from Audi b/c of it, and even on the new 911 it's a bit of a disappointment. The 3 felt fine in terms of weighting, but didn't feel great in terms of feedback. Oh well, the march of progress cannot be slowed...

As to your other question - I'm a short 10min drive from the base of the Santa Cruz mountains and access to hundreds of twisty, flowy, picturesque miles of coastal mountain roads. That said, I probably can't even access all the power of a 335 safely, but at least I can access a greater percentage of it compared to an M3 or my old M5!
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