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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #51  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:32 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Location: Orange County , CA
 
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Mein Auto: 1995 540i SPORT /6 spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanM5 View Post
I never found out what I said I would because I got side-tracked looking up parts for my own car :P

Though I still curious..

Is the 530 V8 not the same block as the 540 V8? Just bored out to I higher cc??
Yes

The M60B30 has a bore of 84 mm (3.3 in) and a stroke of 67.6 mm (2.7 in),[1] for a displacement of 2,997 cc (183 cu in). Compression ratio is 10.5:1, giving an output of 160 kW (218 PS; 215 hp) at 5800 rpm and 290 Nm (214 lbft) at 4500 rpm.[3]

Applications:

1992-1995 E34 530i
1992-1994 E32 730i
1994-1996 E38 730i
M60B40

The M60B40 has a bore of 89 mm (3.5 in) and a stroke of 80 mm (3.1 in),[2] for a total displacement of 3,982 cc (243 cu in). Compression ratio is 10.0:1,[2] giving 210 kW (286 PS; 282 hp)[4] at 5800 rpm and 400 Nm (295 lbft) at 4500 rpm. It had a forged crankshaft rather than the M60B30's cast piece.[citation needed]

So we could b40 bottom end with b30 heads for high compression and b40 manifolds or stroke a b30 with a b40 forged crank?

Last edited by imae34driver; 03-20-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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  #52  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:13 PM
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DanM5 DanM5 is offline
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Cheers for that, ya saved me lookin it up.. Do they use different flywheels if that's the case??
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  #53  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:39 PM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Location: Eugene, Oregon
 
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
Bavarian Auto Recycling told me that the '94 530i and the '94 540i use the same dual mass flywheel. I think this is at least true for 1994-1995, though not sure. I'll probably be waiting a week until that tranny and the flywheel and clutch kit come in before I update as far as how Humpty Dumpty gets put back together again. In the meantime, on my day off, I'm going to go over there and take some pictures of the old flywheel and clutch and anything else of curiosity / interest. The old tranny won't be taken apart until I am sure that the one I ordered is going to work.

Ich danke Ihnen alle fur Ihren Hilfe.

Oh yeah, I haven't ordered the clutch kit, can anybody here recommend the Sachs or Luk brand clutch kit, experience, recommendations or other clutch kit suggestions?

Last edited by manuelwindows; 03-21-2013 at 01:20 AM.
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  #54  
Old 03-21-2013, 01:16 AM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
and then also, has anybody anywhere ever actually taken one of these f'n things apart? (I am referring to actually opening up the specific internal transmission on this specific model for 1994-1995) I don't know if it would be even helpful to anybody here but I am going to open that thing up.

Last edited by manuelwindows; 03-21-2013 at 01:27 AM.
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  #55  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:11 AM
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DanM5 DanM5 is offline
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I put a Luk clutch into my '95 525i and I have no complaints about them.. It served me well while I had the car...!
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Last edited by DanM5; 03-21-2013 at 03:12 AM.
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  #56  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:20 AM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
clutch kit: (Sachs) - $260, with free shipping on Amazon.com

transmission from '94 530i with 102,000 miles - $650 (+ $70 shipping) (6th month warranty on tranny)

"cherry" dual mass flywheel from M5 - $150

So we've got a parts total off $1060, for anybody keeping track. In my humble opinion, this is relatively reasonable for these stock parts and this particular job. For example, Bavarian Autosport was asking for $1250 for a new flywheel from BMW.

Anyway, I got this car with 150,000 miles and no where in the service records was the fact that when the clutch went bad, all he did was put a new clutch kit over a barely useable flywheel and that flywheel wore down the clutch again. We can't be sure if that was the exact cause of the problem with the internal transmission (suspected to be something about mechanisms between shifter fork and shifter rail) but either way, what has saved me here is a mechanic who has taken his time to find the fastest way to remove the transmission and when he saw the labor that would be involved just with taking the transmission apart and putting it back together, even if he could fix the internals, he didn't do any more work and just recommended the new tranny. He hasn't done one single unnecessary thing. He has identified the exact problems and noted other minor gaskets and rings that can be replaced while everything is out.

Just like the people who recommended him have said, he has already given me labor quotes that are way too low, especially given the time he has taken to explain things to me and the access he has given me to his garage to come over and take pictures and talk whenever I want, extremely patient with me and open with me about his limitations.

I think for many of these cars around this year, a tranny job like this would warrant just scrapping the car. Based on labor estimates and the parts, it looks like I will come out of this minus about $1600.

For some perspective (for us mortals who don't have a garage, hydraulic lift, jack stands, or full set of snap-on tools or the knowledge to drop the exhaust and pull a tranny), call any mechanic or call a dealership and tell them you need a new tranny, flywheel and clutch kit in a '94 530i and see what kid of quotes you get, if you can even find an indy mechanic willing to touch this tranny (which requires the exhaust to be dropped and if you don't know the shortcut, you must also unbolt the motor mounts and slightly lift the engine. (See Bentley's)

And the reason why I think that $1600 for this job is getting off relatively light is because I bought this car for $3000, with 150,000 miles on it and have put about 30,000 miles on it in the last few years. Since I've gotten it, I've done a new front suspension assembly, both sides, front bearings, new tires, and alignment, new brakes last year, new radiator when that failed (it started slowly leaking give me some nice warning on that. , I've worked out a number of little fusebox and electrical gremlins on this vehicle and other minor tweaks, I know exactly what I've done to the vehicle and where the gremlins are and what fuses to pull to make them go away, etc. I know how it's been driven, (at least since I've gotten it.)

Did the spark plugs a few months ago, considerably raising the performance from the fouled, wrong-size Autolite plugs that previous owner put in there. Put new fog lights in there to replace the original ones that had been blown out by rock chips.

One of my rear tail light covers had a minor crack so I replaced that with a stock tail light cover. And at one point about 5 months ago, the dealership here replaced my e-prom and thermostat on this vehicle for free, not charging me anything for the parts or labor, because the e-prom and thermostat in this vehicle are still somehow under factor recall and if the e-prom software goes awry, they fix it or give you a new e-prom. It's in the BMW computer at the dealership, they've got to do it. (I suspected a possible software problem causing a low idle but it turned out that I just needed new spark plugs) But instead of looking at my spark plugs, the dealership just replaced the thermostat and the e-prom and the low idle problem remained.

So I did the spark plugs myself. Doing the spark plugs, I noticed a very slight leak in the valve seal gasket that over a long period of time, has allowed some oil to seep into the holes closest to the windshield where the spark plugs drop and the oil had fouled a couple plugs. So on my list to still do with this car is to get new valve cover gaskets and replace them. And then just about everything except the engine and drivetrain has been competently replaced with a stock part so I am in a good place with this car.

Now, knock on wood, I don't get this car back and blow a head gasket the next day but otherwise, on the risk / reward calculation, I still come out ahead by fixing this instead of replacing it. Plus my dog has scratched up the leather in the back seat, or rather my wife's dog, this was something that was unavoidable.

Basically, I am really happy with where I am with this particular e34 and now it will have a new tranny and clutch and particularly, I am really interested to see how that the new flywheel performs.

Even if I got a new vehicle, I can't stand all the electrical crap that comes in BMW's starting around the mid-90s, so if I had to replace this, I would be looking at something like a 1988 325is as my ideal replacement. I figure I would pay $1000 - 2000 for one of those depending on condition and would expect to spend another $1500 -$2000 to get it up to where I want it.

Which is why I still think on the balance of things, I'd rather keep maintaining this e34 and $1600 is not the worst ... (knock on wood) as my experience with BMWs is that if you take care of them, they take care of you. I get off work a little early today and I am hoping to go over to the garage to get some pics of the old flywheel and clutch and the old tranny.

This is, after all, one of the best looking and performing sports cars on the road right now and I'd take it over a new BMW any day of the week, or most days at least. Cause you are f'd with those new BMW's after the warranty expires. :o)

Last edited by manuelwindows; 03-22-2013 at 09:27 AM.
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  #57  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:34 AM
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Radian Radian is offline
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Mein Auto: '91 535i 5-spd
~$1000 plus or minus is normal.

It's a PITA on pretty much any car...some more or less than others.

When you hold onto a vehicle long enough, eventually any major mechanical repair will come close to exceeding the "value" of the car. It boils down to the basic cost of own a working vehicle.
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  #58  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:42 AM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
yeah but if I just wanted a working vehicle, I would get another '94 Corolla (yes I have a '94 Corolla, as my third back-up car, OK) or a Dodge Neon, etc.
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  #59  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:50 AM
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Radian Radian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelwindows
yeah but if I just wanted a working vehicle, I would get another '94 Corolla (yes I have a '94 Corolla, as my third back-up car, OK) or a Dodge Neon, etc.
Okay. No problem.
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  #60  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:58 AM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
also this car and the '77 320i are kind of like my hobbies as well. My goal is to be able to do most things myself with them but this transmission was very far outside my range of abilities. There isn't anything in Bentley's about fixing the internals. Once you get to the internals of this particular tranny, there is a void of knowledge. The tranny on this 530 is a SOB compared to the '88 325is that I used to own and which was replaced without the need to drop the exhaust. (about 11 years ago that was) and which I had replaced for less than $800

it is also an incredible luxury I feel to even have the money and time to mess around with these cars

people buy and build expensive models of stuff to build for fun so why not put that money into doing the same type of thing with doing stuff on the vehicle you drive, I guess is another way to look at it. that's why I want to see the internals of the tranny.
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  #61  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelwindows View Post
There isn't anything in Bentley's about fixing the internals.
That's par for course with the Bentley.

The BMW factory service manual, chapter 23, describes in detail how to overhaul the manual gearboxes. It's not a task for the DIY'er.
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  #62  
Old 03-22-2013, 03:27 PM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
Still though in theory it is in that factory manual and can be repaired, I'm sure that it can be. And it is probably very well built. But in reality, I would like to talk to a BMW mechanic who is not either insane retired or charging $120 who has actually worked on the internals of one of these 1994s or would even look at it. But no definitely not a DIY item, opening up this gearbox.

it takes some tools specific to opening up this transmission in the first place that only a dealership would have, for one thing so most indy mechanics are SOL. the guy who is doing mine has all the transmission tools and enough equipment to make a tool to take this apart though and we're gonna do that cause we feel like it but we're only doing it cause he already has most of the tools and likes to display cross-sections of different trannies in his shop and wants to cross-section this one

Last edited by manuelwindows; 03-22-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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  #63  
Old 03-22-2013, 04:32 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Mein Auto: 1995 540i SPORT /6 spd
Cross section the trans, just cut the "stuff" in half! Forget makin tools. Have some fun..

I removed an m42 from an e30 swap/build i got goin on the other day with a sledge hammer! Soooo much fun! Fck m42's

Pics soon
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  #64  
Old 03-26-2013, 02:58 PM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Here's an update with some pictures.

These show how the clutch disk and pressure plate have been pretty badly grooved by the flywheel. The bad flywheel is not pictured but will be when we get the tool from Snap On you need to take off this particular flywheel. The dealership has one but they are evil and are probably not in the lending mood. The tool by the way is just for this flywheel for the e34 from '94 and '95, which is really convenient also. There's maybe like three other models or something that use this flywheel.

The mechanic noticed that the clutch kit here that he just took apart is an aftermarket Luk clutch kit that was put on by a previous owner, and that this clutch job was done on top of a bad flywheel and that although it fixed the clutch for a while, the bad flywheel ultimately also wore down the second clutch. I don't know how long this took.

It never slipped badly on me and I never drove it very hard, at least not as hard as you can drive these if you try, mostly drove it relatively mild and most of my experience is driving e38s and one e30 and now that I think about it, those did shift "crisper" so I guess I didn't pay that much attention and I am looking forward to experiencing how this clutch is supposed to feel, because I am suspecting that I got it in the condition shown in the pictures. This is the first time I have done anything with the transmission after owning it for about 30,000 miles. I think it just held pretty good.

There was nothing wrong with the Luk clutch kit that was put it when it was put in, the problem is that it was put in over a bad flywheel so just the new clutch kit didn't permanently fix the problem of the damaged flywheel.

An update on the labor:

I am in for 3 and a half hours total for:

pulling old transmission and taking apart and properly diagnosing clutch / flywheel issue and having to deal with me, examining transmission to the point where he suggested that finding a used one in good condition would be the most cost effective alternative to him trying to rebuild the existing tranny; professional shop and equipment and business manner

at $65 / hour

with an estimate for another 3 and a half hours to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, plus or minus a little extra for any gaskets, rings, bolts, etc., that he sees need to be replaced. I think that these are extremely fair labor charges.

I am not sure if the bad clutch led to the failure that caused the problem described in my OP (shifter knob suddenly stuck in third gear position - but car in second gear) although that it what I suspect, and when we get the tool to take the flywheel off the tranny and the new tranny, we intend to open the old tranny and find out wtf is with that in there

(and although he's a tranny specialist, I think this might be a good time to finally get the new valve cover gaskets I need and get those replaced and I'm thinking that's gotta be easier than pulling the tranny out of this in less than 3 hours) though I am hesitant to burden him with my machine in his shop for too much longer on this run because he really takes his craftsmanship seriously, he might be e34'ed out after this.
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Last edited by manuelwindows; 03-26-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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  #65  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:22 PM
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DanM5 DanM5 is offline
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Location: Perth, WA
 
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I see your worn clutch and I raise youClick image for larger version

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  #66  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:53 PM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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fold on that one
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  #67  
Old 03-26-2013, 06:06 PM
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DanM5 DanM5 is offline
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That's from my 525i a couple of years ago.. The car was still driving fine, just had to start it in gear and change gears by the revs because the release bearing disintegrated on me.. I replaced it lying on the ground, took a while..
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Like my axle stands??
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  #68  
Old 03-28-2013, 08:54 AM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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you are braver than me, sir!
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  #69  
Old 03-28-2013, 09:54 AM
3star 3star is offline
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U snapped a shift fork. Its not your fault these things happen. Welcome to the wonderful world of fatigue loading. :-)

You can rebuild your trans, but it will be way cheaper to just swap another trans. Most shops charge 800 to 1000 to rebuild a trans, but they'll give you like a 1 year warranty on it. You can rebuild it yourself but it requires special tools and you need to be precise. Engines are way easier to rebuild than trannies
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  #70  
Old 03-28-2013, 10:06 AM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
yes, that sounds about right there about the shift fork inside that transmission and is in line with my mechanic's guess at what it probably is. And also what you said about just getting a new tranny, that also lines up with what my mechanic said, because taking the tranny apart, fixing the fork, and then putting it back together, just the labor alone (not to mention the special tools you need) would be more than the $650 I paid for a replacement transmission that got delivered yesterday. it looks pretty good.

I am still waiting on the flywheel and clutch kit. both supposed to come in next day or two and I really am hoping to close out this thread with a happy new transmission and some flywheel pictures in the next few days

then it's on to replacing the valve cover gaskets that have been annoying me
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  #71  
Old 04-02-2013, 09:29 PM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
After a debacle purchasing a used flywheel. A disaster I should say, of my own making and for which I am solely responsible, I have purchased a new Luk flywheel for $445

like the new clutch kit, I got it from Amazon, which has great customer service and the lowest price stock parts I can find.

Also, I signed up for a trial membership of Amazon Prime and that got me one day shipping for $3.99, which I thought was a good deal.

So all the parts are lined up to be ready now on Friday and boy this is getting excited.

Update: Friday, the new flywheel is here, it looks sweet but I need the specific Torx T50 tool to take the bolts off my old flywheel and then I need a Torx T60 extension to put the bolts on the new flywheel, because the new flywheel came with T60 bolts. It's the same flywheel and holes and everything, it's just that BMW changed the size of the heads on the bolts after 10/93. So those tools have been ordered from Snap-On.

We are now looking to have a completely overhauled transmission Monday or Tuesday. I decided also I'm going to start drifting.

Last edited by manuelwindows; 04-05-2013 at 03:48 PM. Reason: drifting
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  #72  
Old 04-11-2013, 07:24 PM
manuelwindows manuelwindows is offline
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Mein Auto: 1994 530i, 1977 320i
I have an exciting update. Took longer than I thought to get the necessary flywheel Torx 60 and Torx 50 tools in hand.

Have flywheel Torx 50 in hand. Snap-On delivering Torx 60 tomorrow and then it gets real.
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