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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 03-29-2013, 02:04 AM
UltimateDriving UltimateDriving is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eWERK-E60 View Post
Changing the oil yourself is one of the easiest things you can do. Plus it's fun! If you own a garage, have basic tools and a jack with stands, then you have no excuse not to do it yourself.
So true, if you're into DIY stuff, changing oil can be fun and not a hassle.

I also use Mobil 1 0W-40, you can go with any BMW LL-01 approved oil.
Here where i live we only get 2 BMW LL-01 Approved oils, Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 and Mobil 1 0W-40.
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:30 AM
csnpsu csnpsu is offline
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Originally Posted by njlou View Post
The best thing to do is get on line and look for dealer oel specials. They usually have them for ~$70. IF you DIY it will save you ~$20, and I dont think it is worth it. THEN you will have that critical certification that it was done. This is helpful at resale.
Additionally it is a PIA to DIY!

If it was a big savings it may be worth it but I dont think it is. You can take the alleged savings and buy a cup of Benzin. LOL
Most people changing oil are not the sharpest tools in the shed. I would rather have an owner who spent his own money on the car, who loves the car change his oil over some jerk who makes $8 an hour to change the oil.
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:45 AM
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boramkiv boramkiv is offline
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Originally Posted by csnpsu View Post
Most people changing oil are not the sharpest tools in the shed. I would rather have an owner who spent his own money on the car, who loves the car change his oil over some jerk who makes $8 an hour to change the oil.
Boy, I don't know how much more truer this statement could be.
Those young techs can really screw up sometimes. Like a case where the wrong type of oil was put into my buddy's '11 X5 35d. The owner would have more pride in their vehicle even removing the occasional dead leaf or gum ball stuck in a crevice, dealer would not even see it much less remove it.
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:40 AM
danimal43 danimal43 is offline
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Walmart is now carrying the mobil1 0w40 5 quart for $25. Add 2 more quarts (14) and a filter(8) from the dealer or advance is a $47 dollar change. That is almost a third of most dealerships. I was having vanos issues putting my n54 in limp mode, but after a couple changes at 7000 miles the issue hasn't came back. I am guessing that it was changed at 15k from the guy I got it from.
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  #30  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:44 AM
pjinca pjinca is online now
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Originally Posted by danimal43 View Post
Walmart is now carrying the mobil1 0w40 5 quart for $25. Add 2 more quarts (14) and a filter(8) from the dealer or advance is a $47 dollar change. That is almost a third of most dealerships. I was having vanos issues putting my n54 in limp mode, but after a couple changes at 7000 miles the issue hasn't came back. I am guessing that it was changed at 15k from the guy I got it from.
What is really cool? I went to my local Walmart and saw the sale you mention, but they didn't have any 0W40 in stock. I went to O'Reilly auto parts and they matched the Walmart price for me and got me the filter for $9. PERFECT!!!!
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  #31  
Old 03-29-2013, 03:38 PM
danimal43 danimal43 is offline
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Originally Posted by pjinca View Post
What is really cool? I went to my local Walmart and saw the sale you mention, but they didn't have any 0W40 in stock. I went to O'Reilly auto parts and they matched the Walmart price for me and got me the filter for $9. PERFECT!!!!
That's awesome... I was thinking of just buying 3 five qt jugs next time and two filters. The 0w40 is great stuff. This is the only reason I go to walmart.
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  #32  
Old 03-30-2013, 05:52 AM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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Originally Posted by danimal43 View Post
That's awesome... I was thinking of just buying 3 five qt jugs next time and two filters. The 0w40 is great stuff. This is the only reason I go to walmart.
Remember that BMW LL-01 requires HTHS to be above 3.5. Most synthetic oils today fall well below that requirement. Mobil 1 0W-40's HTHS is 3.8 so it is a great buy at $24.95/jug.

High-Temperature/High-Shear

This test is a simulation of the shearing effects that would occur within an engine. In fact, it's actually designed to simulate motor oil viscosity in operating crankshaft bearings.

Under high stress conditions where shearing can occur, the VI Improvers (polymers) break down. As they do, the viscosity of the oil decreases. This is what the High Temperature/High Shear test checks for.

The HT/HS test is measured in Centipoise (cP) as the Cold Crank Simulator test is. However, in this case, because you're hoping for the least loss of viscosity with an increase in heat and stress, you want the cP value to remain high.

HTHS is a balance between fuel economy and protection. Too high of an HTHS and you lower fuel economy, too low, and you reduce wear protection.

Within the oil industry, the big issue is with low HTHS figures (those below 3.5). As Lubrizol states:

A critical issue for the oil industry is how misapplication of low HTHS viscosity oils will be avoided. The use of low HTHS oils will save fuel in engines designed for their use but could lead to excessive premature wear in some engines.

Engine manufacturers are evaluating their hardware to see if engine durability, especially for ring and liner scuffing is an issue with low HTHS viscosity oils so they can take advantage of the engine lubricant delivering improved FE to meet the new US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) FE and GHG requirements

So, if you're trying to squeeze every mile out of your gallon of gas, then go with a sub 3.5 HTHS oil, if you're most concerned about wear on the internal components, then seek out an oil with >3.5 HTHS.

Why offer <3.5 HTHS oils?

The drivers behind lowering HTHS viscosity are new global governmental regulations to improve fuel economy (FE) and lower greenhouse gases (GHG) in new vehicles. Lower HTHS viscosity tends to improve FE and lower GHG but higher HTHS viscosity affords better wear protection so a careful balance must be found when formulating an engine oil.

Avoid any oil with the FE designation "Fuel Economy" on the packaging.

You are guaranteed an oil that will fall well below the 3.5 HTHS number set by BMW.

Last edited by mrgrumpy; 03-30-2013 at 05:54 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-30-2013, 07:56 AM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Originally Posted by mrgrumpy View Post
Remember that BMW LL-01 requires HTHS to be above 3.5. Most synthetic oils today fall well below that requirement. Mobil 1 0W-40's HTHS is 3.8 so it is a great buy at $24.95/jug.

High-Temperature/High-Shear

This test is a simulation of the shearing effects that would occur within an engine. In fact, it's actually designed to simulate motor oil viscosity in operating crankshaft bearings.

Under high stress conditions where shearing can occur, the VI Improvers (polymers) break down. As they do, the viscosity of the oil decreases. This is what the High Temperature/High Shear test checks for.

The HT/HS test is measured in Centipoise (cP) as the Cold Crank Simulator test is. However, in this case, because you're hoping for the least loss of viscosity with an increase in heat and stress, you want the cP value to remain high.

HTHS is a balance between fuel economy and protection. Too high of an HTHS and you lower fuel economy, too low, and you reduce wear protection.

Within the oil industry, the big issue is with low HTHS figures (those below 3.5). As Lubrizol states:

A critical issue for the oil industry is how misapplication of low HTHS viscosity oils will be avoided. The use of low HTHS oils will save fuel in engines designed for their use but could lead to excessive premature wear in some engines.

Engine manufacturers are evaluating their hardware to see if engine durability, especially for ring and liner scuffing is an issue with low HTHS viscosity oils so they can take advantage of the engine lubricant delivering improved FE to meet the new US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) FE and GHG requirements

So, if you're trying to squeeze every mile out of your gallon of gas, then go with a sub 3.5 HTHS oil, if you're most concerned about wear on the internal components, then seek out an oil with >3.5 HTHS.

Why offer <3.5 HTHS oils?

The drivers behind lowering HTHS viscosity are new global governmental regulations to improve fuel economy (FE) and lower greenhouse gases (GHG) in new vehicles. Lower HTHS viscosity tends to improve FE and lower GHG but higher HTHS viscosity affords better wear protection so a careful balance must be found when formulating an engine oil.

Avoid any oil with the FE designation "Fuel Economy" on the packaging.

You are guaranteed an oil that will fall well below the 3.5 HTHS number set by BMW.
Just wanted to add BMW spec piggybacks on ACEA. All ACEA A3/B4 oils have HTHS 3.5 or higher.

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  #34  
Old 03-30-2013, 01:00 PM
njlou njlou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
Just wanted to add BMW spec piggybacks on ACEA. All ACEA A3/B4 oils have HTHS 3.5 or higher.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App

Another reason to lease a car.
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  #35  
Old 03-30-2013, 03:18 PM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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So we know to look for motor oil that is > 3.5 HTHS.

What about viscosity?

The BMW 5W-30, LL-01, at 100 Celsius (212 Fahrenheit) = 12.2 cSt viscosity rating; (heavy weight = 10 - 12.5cSt@100c) (thin weight = < 10 cSt@ 100c)

Mobil 1 0W-40 = 14.3 cSt @100C

Their Mobil 1 5W-30 Extended Performance = 10.2 cSt @ 100C (A much lighter weight oil than 0W-40)

So, folks, I am telling you, that Mobil 1, 0W-40, at Walmart for $24.97, 5 quart jug, is highway robbery.

It might (slightly) rob you of some MPG's, but, come on! We're trying to save that $18,000 motor from unnecessary wear; aren't we?

The viscosity of a fluid is a measure of its resistance to gradual deformation by shear stress or tensile stress. For liquids, it corresponds to the informal notion of "thickness". For example, honey has a higher viscosity than water.

I am in favor of engine bearing protection over MPG's.

With Mobil 1 0W-40, you have a lot of oil "thickness" between surfaces at high temp's.

I vote "yes" for that!

Stock up for ALL of your vehicles at this price. I certainly have!

Worried about Cold Starts? 0W-40 has a pour rating of -45 degrees celsius.

So you are covered on those cold Northern nights.

Last edited by mrgrumpy; 03-30-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-30-2013, 03:31 PM
njlou njlou is offline
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I think.....
BMW states that their cars need the Castrol Euro formula etc. (WHY???).
They dont even suggest the US version of Castrol(?).
Is there a real reason, or is it typical arrogance?
Further what is the dealer (really) using?

As you have mentioned the Mobil 1 is most likely an excellent alternative.

BUT if I had an M5 or other high powered engine even a turbo, i would do some research to find a proper alternative. IF it is Mobil1 so be it.
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  #37  
Old 03-30-2013, 04:02 PM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlou View Post
I think.....
BMW states that their cars need the Castrol Euro formula etc. (WHY???).
They dont even suggest the US version of Castrol(?).
Is there a real reason, or is it typical arrogance?
Further what is the dealer (really) using?

As you have mentioned the Mobil 1 is most likely an excellent alternative.

BUT if I had an M5 or other high powered engine even a turbo, i would do some research to find a proper alternative. IF it is Mobil1 so be it.
I'm sorry, but this is a "bang your head against a wall" moment.

Mobil 1 0W-40 = HTHS of 3.8 (BMW requires 3.5 min);

Viscosity of Mobil 1 0W-40 = 14.2 at 212 Fahrenheit while (BMW requires 12.3).

In other words, Mobil 1, 0W-40, kicks axx on BMW's LL-01 spec's.

Now take this data, and compare to your favorite Castrol oil blend/mix/packaging.

Go to their (Castrol's, etc) web site and review their MSDS data sheet on the specific oil you are contemplating.

I do not work for Exxon/Mobil nor Walmart, but every once in awhile, they offer incredible bargains to the public. Mobil 1, 0W-40, is such a bargain.
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  #38  
Old 03-30-2013, 05:14 PM
njlou njlou is offline
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This is very interesting on many levels.

The next question that I have is what is the "magic" formula in Castrol Euro oil which makes it different from the US formula.
AND does it matter to the mere mortal?
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  #39  
Old 03-30-2013, 07:39 PM
M6Cpe M6Cpe is offline
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No problem using the dealer BMW Castrol oil.

If you want to buy at Walmart or your local auto parts store, use the LL-01 Castrol 0W-40 or Mobil 0W-40.

That way you'll stay in spec for your engine.

Will other oils work? Maybe.

Is it worth the risk? No.
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  #40  
Old 03-30-2013, 08:07 PM
UltimateDriving UltimateDriving is offline
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The current Mobil 1 0W-40 formula does not have a 14.2 cSt flow rate at 100C, it's 13.5.
The reason why they suggest the Euro formula Castrol is probably due to the US Oil not meeting BMW LL-01 standards.
Another very strict standard in the MB 229.5, which i think is even harder to get than the BMW LL-01.
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  #41  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:52 AM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDriving View Post
The current Mobil 1 0W-40 formula does not have a 14.2 cSt flow rate at 100C, it's 13.5.
The reason why they suggest the Euro formula Castrol is probably due to the US Oil not meeting BMW LL-01 standards.
Another very strict standard in the MB 229.5, which i think is even harder to get than the BMW LL-01.
NO, according to their latest MSDS it is: 14.3 cSt.


Last edited by mrgrumpy; 03-31-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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  #42  
Old 03-31-2013, 10:12 AM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlou View Post
I think.....
BMW states that their cars need the Castrol Euro formula etc. (WHY???).
They dont even suggest the US version of Castrol(?).
Is there a real reason, or is it typical arrogance?
Further what is the dealer (really) using?

As you have mentioned the Mobil 1 is most likely an excellent alternative.

BUT if I had an M5 or other high powered engine even a turbo, i would do some research to find a proper alternative. IF it is Mobil1 so be it.
Castrol has 0w30, 0w40, 5w40 for sale in US. These are all LL01 IIRC.

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  #43  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:24 PM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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Castrol Edge with Syntec Power Technology 0W-30: 12.2 cSt @100 celsius

Castrol EDGE Professional A3 0W-40: 13.5 cSt @ 100 celsius

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4: 13.3 cSt " "

Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W-30 12 cSt

Castrol Tec II 5W-30: 10.6 cSt

Castrol EDGE 5W-40 U.S.: 14.28 cSt

Castrol Power RS Racing 4T 5W-40: 13 cSt
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  #44  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:35 PM
kmorgan_260 kmorgan_260 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcy View Post
I believe BMW approves the following oils -
* Castrol Syntec Euro Formula SAE 0W-30
* Mobil1 0W-40
* Pennzoil Platinum Euro Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
* Valvoline Syn Power SAE 5W-30

IMHO, any of the above will do the job, possibly other oils as well. Mobil1 marketing guys did a good job of convincing me :-)
Depending on the type of driving, oil change interval is important as well.
I agree, many full synthetic oils will work well in our cars. I am also glad to say that BMWs are one of the easiest cars to change oil in that I have ever owned. You have easy access to the filter on top of the motor. My Toyota and my Dodge are a pain to get the filter off every time I change the oil. I just wish I know how to reprogram the CBS to remind me at 7500 instead of whatever extreme interval it is set at.
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  #45  
Old 03-31-2013, 04:33 PM
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boramkiv boramkiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmorgan_260 View Post
I just wish I know how to reprogram the CBS to remind me at 7500 instead of whatever extreme interval it is set at.
If you have a BavarianTechnic tool a good way to start off at 7500ish is once you change the oil, hit the CBS menu and immediately change the percentage (countdown) to 60% (or less) and add one service count. This way the oil is fresh, but the counter says its already almost at half it's life.

I haven't been able to do this yet because they still don't support the MSV70, but the do for most others.
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  #46  
Old 03-31-2013, 11:13 PM
UltimateDriving UltimateDriving is offline
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I know about that MSDS but it seems that Exxon Mobil did not update their MSDS with the latest specs. You can see the latest one at Mobiloil.com.
First you have to click "Oils" then choose your "Oil Product" and then at the bottom of the page you will see the MSDS for the oil and the Product Data Sheet. In this case for some reason Exxon Mobil updated the Product Data Sheet but not the MSDS.
Take a look.

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  #47  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:54 AM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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Liqui-Moly Synthoil Energy SAE 0W-40 Viscosity at +100 C : 14 cSt

Liqui-Moly Synthoil Longtime SAE 0W-30 Viscosity at +100 C : 10.1 cSt

Liqui-Moly Synthoil Longtime Plus SAE 0W-30 Viscosity at 100 C : 9.6 cSt

Liqui-Moly Synthoil High Tech SAE 5W-40 Viscosity at 100 C : 14.1 cSt

What a difference in viscosity across the oils. From a very thin 9.6, to a heavy 14.1 cSt.

But on the shelf, they all look good.

You want MPG's? Go with the 9.6

You want heavy protection? Go with 14.1 cSt

BMW wants 12.5 cSt minimum
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  #48  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:01 AM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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Check out Redline's Products:

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  #49  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:31 AM
pjinca pjinca is online now
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LOL, wow, and I thought I was nerdy about coffee!!!
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2006 Jeep SRT-8
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  #50  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:24 AM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
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You want sum' more? Aye?

Check this out:

Total QUARTZ 9000 5W-40: 13.6 cSt, HTHS ?

Total QUARTZ ENERGY 9000 0W30: 12.18 cSt, HTHS ?

Total QUARTZ RACING 10W-50 17 cSt, HTHS ?
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