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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 03-29-2013, 09:01 PM
shopper4adeal shopper4adeal is offline
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Imaginary extra washer on top of rear shock

This may well be one of those more seemingly silly questions, but here goes: I have always had a rattle in the back passenger side of my 2000 Z-3 m coupe since I took ownership. I decided that the noise had to be coming from the area of the rear shock. Sure enough, once I was able to remove all of the various trim pieces to get at the shock I discovered that I could push down on the car body and create about a quarter of an inch or so of play at the cup washer at the top of the shock. I removed the nylon lock nut and the cup washer so that I could inspect the mount itself. Everything looks to be OKAY. Then I looked at a picture of what was supposed to be the exploded diagram of the uppermost portion of the shock only to discover that a flat washer was shown as being present underneath the cup washer and on top of the rubber portin of the mount itself. My car did NOT have any washer at this location only the cup washer. My question for those in the know is if that washer really does exist at that location or is it that the illustration is somehow faulty? I would very much appreciate some insight about the need for this washer or if it is OK to simply have the single cup washer by itself at this location but properly tightened up for a stock condition without any special modification present. When I removed all of the trim pieces I could tell that I ws the first person to access the area. So I am really puzzled about whether or not this second washer was ever really installed, needed, or necessary since the car did not have one on it from the factory, just the cupped one at the top under the nut. 'Sure would like to hear some feedback on this issue. Many thanks to all of those who reply.
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  #2  
Old 03-30-2013, 07:13 AM
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vintage42 vintage42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shopper4adeal View Post
... I have always had a rattle in the back passenger side of my 2000 Z-3 m coupe since I took ownership. I decided that the noise had to be coming from the area of the rear shock. Sure enough, once I was able to remove all of the various trim pieces to get at the shock I discovered that I could push down on the car body and create about a quarter of an inch or so of play at the cup washer at the top of the shock. I removed the nylon lock nut and the cup washer so that I could inspect the mount itself. Everything looks to be OKAY. Then I looked at a picture of what was supposed to be the exploded diagram of the uppermost portion of the shock only to discover that a flat washer was shown as being present underneath the cup washer and on top of the rubber portin of the mount itself....
I see that washer #17 here:
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...59&hg=33&fg=45
But these photos do not show a washer there:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...ts/Pic2-01.jpg
http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...ts/Pic5-01.jpg
http://perkornhall.se/Per_Kornhall/R..._mounts.html#6
Nor does this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=o-pyqyd1h20
And I did not see a washer when I replaced my shocks and mounts. Between the lock nut and the rubber of the shock mount, there was only the round cupped plate.

Although you said the rubber mount looked OK, the play and the rattle indicate that the rubber is not OK. You could replace the shock mounts with a kit like this that adds an extra reinforcing plate around the hole in the body, might be a good idea for an M. I got the UUC kit because it was the cheapest:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/MEYLE_HD/
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  #3  
Old 03-30-2013, 07:18 AM
Blacklane Blacklane is offline
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Since you're already in there, this might be a good time to replace the shock mounts with aftermarket ones from Rogue Engineering, Ireland Engineering, Meyle, etc. The BMW ones often fail. Maybe the movement you are seeing is from collapsed rubber of the original mount. You can probably add a washer to buy some time, regardless of whether one was originally there.

It's been a while since I replaced mine and I don't recall what washers were present where.
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  #4  
Old 03-30-2013, 11:01 PM
shopper4adeal shopper4adeal is offline
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Following my first attempt at posting I want to make it a point to express my thanks to both vintage42 and blacklane, the two generous members that took some of their time to offer me very insightful and helpful advice about my concerns over what appeared to be a missing washer. It is great to be able to go here to Bimmerfest for help, since sometimes the simplest problems can be quite challenging.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:28 PM
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seth1993 seth1993 is offline
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+1 on Rogue Engineering shock mounts. I had the same rattling problem until I changed out the shock. It was a very easy install all you will need is basic hand tools and they provide helpful instructions.
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:33 PM
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vintage42 vintage42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seth1993 View Post
+1 on Rogue Engineering shock mounts. I had the same rattling problem until I changed out the shock. It was a very easy install all you will need is basic hand tools and they provide helpful instructions.
They look pretty, but are they worth twice as much as the same reinforcing kit with instructions from UUC?
http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/RSM.html
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/MEYLE_HD/
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:21 AM
dougmcintyre dougmcintyre is offline
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For a coupe, definitely yes. For a roadster, not as much.

Taken from http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/RSM.html,

Quote:
Additionally, the reinforcement has its hardware welded to it, allowing for the rear shock mount to become a bottom-mount design. This means that if the rear shocks need to be removed, it only requires removing the two nuts and the single bolt at the bottom of the shock. Once installed, there is no need to completely disassemble the trunk area to gain access.
To get to a coupe's RSMs, basically, the rear interior has to come out. A project you don't want to do twice. The inexperienced guy who doesn't want to break anything, will take hours. Much faster for an experienced guy. I think Randy once posted he could pull the rear interior in 45 minutes.

Plus you don't have to deal with UCC. I've read too many UCC horror stories on the web (ex., http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...&highlight=ucc). I also have a friend with his own UCC poor customer service story.
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:28 AM
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vintage42 vintage42 is offline
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The $50 Meyle rear mount kit from UUC was straightforward; I ordered and it came. But returning the wrong strut brace that I ordered did take a phone call, which is UUC's stated return procedure. And it did take a few calls, where I gave up holding, before I got through a person.
I hadn't noticed shopper4adeal had a coupe where the upside down Rogue plate saves hours on the next shock replacement.
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:56 PM
shopper4adeal shopper4adeal is offline
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First of all, my thanks to those members who have taken the time to respond to my concerns over what appeared to be a missing washer/spacer on the top of my passenger side rear shock absorber.

I tried to correct the problem by tightening the shock top center nut but the threads ran out and I was not able to remove all of the play from the shaft, almost, but not quite. Vintage42 was correct in his assesment of the problem (bad shock mount), I removed the entire shock assembly and discovered the the center steel sleeve that appeared to have been originaly vulcanized into the center of the mount was loose from the rubber and was able to move up and down through the mount with the shock shaft just enough that when loaded in the upward direction the top washer could "rattle" even though the nut was tight. This was due to the fact that the top cup washer would rest against the rubber top side of the mount until the shock was loaded in the upward direction. Since threads on the shock shaft did not allow the entire washer-mount-sleeve bushing-and bottom side washer sandwich totally compress, the top washer could rattle when not resting against against the top of the mount. Hope that I have explained this clearly for those who are interested in the details. I did look in to the uuc kit recommended by Vintage42 (currently $55), I like the stainless steel construction since stainless is so tuff and does not usually rust if at all. Plus the center bushing design looks well thought out. I will consider any other suggested options if they are a better choice for the money and suitable for my driving habits/use. The car only has about 37000 miles on it and has had the rattle since I took ownership at 34000 miles, would have liked to have seen a better mount design but hey the rest of the car performs nicely :-) I have not exposed the left side shock yet but will make some comparision just to see how things fit together on that side without any rattle currently. Will get back to this posting when I have completed installing the reinforcing kits that Vintage42 recommended. I will check in periodically to see if anyone has posted any new useful info in the meantime. Thanks again to all for the tips!
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2013, 05:29 AM
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vintage42 vintage42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shopper4adeal View Post
... I did look in to the uuc kit recommended by Vintage42 (currently $55), I like the stainless steel construction since stainless is so tuff and does not usually rust if at all. Plus the center bushing design looks well thought out. I will consider any other suggested options if they are a better choice for the money... Will get back to this posting when I have completed installing the reinforcing kits that Vintage42 recommended...
It's not clear if you have ordered the UUC kit or not. It made sense for my 1.9. For an M and a coupe, I would get the Rogue kit. It is custom made -- stronger for the M, upside down for the coupe, and rebuildable with various inserts.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:33 PM
shopper4adeal shopper4adeal is offline
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Vintage42,

I have not ordered anything yet. I am still looking to see what else is available and on Ebay to see if there are any good deals. I would like to get the car back together so I can enjoy it, so I am wanting to make a choice soon. I will look at the rogue kit. Thanks
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2013, 01:06 AM
shopper4adeal shopper4adeal is offline
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I took another closer look at the design of the Rogue brand shock mount. Based upon what I have seen and read in the product descriptions I have formed the opinion that the Meyle design style does not appear to have the ultimate strenght yield or ease of change/service features of the "Rogue." Furthermore, a hard enough impact to the rear wheel could drive upward the bottom stainless washer and damage either or both the bottom rubber bisquit or washer causing a potential looseness rattle to result, or cause some serious distortion to the center area of the mount in the Rogue kit. As for the reinforcement aspect, the kits appear pretty much equal to each other with the only big differences existing in the location and construction materials used for the actual energy dampening center of the mount itself. Heck, you could gut the rubber and remove the studs from an OEM mount and you would have a reinforcement plate/piece like in the kits but made out of regular steel that would be darn close to what is presented by any of the reinforcement kits that I have seen so far. I did see one (probably racing only) captured ball pillow bearing kit that looked like it had some extremely high strength but no vibration resistance, it was almost $80 and the auction did not state any brand name for the mount. If money was a main factor the Meyle kit would have won my favor as a great compromise for all the variouos kit/mount options offered. However, the Rogue design also suggested by Vintage42 has more overall value features and therefore is the front runner at this time unless something as good or better shows up in the meantime.
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2013, 04:27 AM
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vintage42 vintage42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shopper4adeal View Post
I took another closer look at the design of the Rogue brand shock mount. Based upon what I have seen and read in the product descriptions I have formed the opinion that the Meyle design style does not appear to have the ultimate strenght yield or ease of change/service features of the "Rogue."... the Rogue design also suggested by Vintage42 has more overall value features and therefore is the front runner at this time unless something as good or better shows up in the meantime.
Actually it was Msgs #5 and #7 by others that first noted the advantages of the Rogue RSM for your M coupe.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2013, 02:36 PM
shopper4adeal shopper4adeal is offline
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Yes, Vintage42 is correct. Since he was the last to mention and recommend the kit and agreed with the others I attributed the suggestion to him in error. Still, thanks to all who made helpful suggestions. :-)
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2013, 10:11 PM
shopper4adeal shopper4adeal is offline
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I installed the rogue kit and discovered that the driver side shock mount was also failing even though it did not make any noises like the rattling washer did on the passenger side. Since I wanted to re-use my original sachs shocks I did have to grind an arch shaped cut out on the molded in washer at the top of the shock shaft protector so that my socket could clear and fit over the 13mm nut that needs to go onto the two downward facing studs from from inside the car where the Rogue reinforcing kit has the top plate located on the wheel well under all of the trim. If I had been installing some other shocks or was willing to leave off the plastic tube with its washer molded into the top portion I could have skipped the gring of the notch. Otherwise, there were no other problems. Putting back all of the interior trim panels etc knowing that I will not ever need to take it all out for the shock mounts was comforting since as others have stated it is a real chore to remove all the trim pieces to get at the shock mounts. Glad to have this task finished so I can go back to driving and enjoying the car Thanks to all who read and commented about my post :-)
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:41 AM
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amancuso amancuso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shopper4adeal View Post
This may well be one of those more seemingly silly questions, but here goes: I have always had a rattle in the back passenger side of my 2000 Z-3 m coupe since I took ownership. I decided that the noise had to be coming from the area of the rear shock. Sure enough, once I was able to remove all of the various trim pieces to get at the shock I discovered that I could push down on the car body and create about a quarter of an inch or so of play at the cup washer at the top of the shock. I removed the nylon lock nut and the cup washer so that I could inspect the mount itself. Everything looks to be OKAY. Then I looked at a picture of what was supposed to be the exploded diagram of the uppermost portion of the shock only to discover that a flat washer was shown as being present underneath the cup washer and on top of the rubber portin of the mount itself. My car did NOT have any washer at this location only the cup washer. My question for those in the know is if that washer really does exist at that location or is it that the illustration is somehow faulty? I would very much appreciate some insight about the need for this washer or if it is OK to simply have the single cup washer by itself at this location but properly tightened up for a stock condition without any special modification present. When I removed all of the trim pieces I could tell that I ws the first person to access the area. So I am really puzzled about whether or not this second washer was ever really installed, needed, or necessary since the car did not have one on it from the factory, just the cupped one at the top under the nut. 'Sure would like to hear some feedback on this issue. Many thanks to all of those who reply.
My OEM set up didn't have the washer either, and neither did the Meyle HD's I bought for replacements.
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