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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 03-31-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Guess I meant nanny features (to help you park, backup, stay in your lane, turn etc).
That's better.
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooer View Post
If I was on a budget and wanted a f30, I would

1. Buy a base 335 - you get xenons, moonroof, 18 inch rims, wood on dash, and most importantly 300 hp engine standard - most likely in jet black or alpine white. This will cost you 44k in RWD or 48k with xdrive, and you still have room to add one or two options.. heated seats, enhanced bluetooth (necessary), etc.

For me the choice is easy - base 335 offers significantly more VALUE for slightly more $$, and is still going to offer you the spirited driving experience bmw is famous for.
And that is where you would be incorrect.

A 335i without Sport line and without the dynamic handling package is nothing like what you describe. The 328i on the base suspension is loose enough, with the extra kick of the 300 horses the body lean and float would drive you crazy. The XDrive suspension is even softer, would be like a 600 HP school bus.

Said it before and I'll say it again: the big gamechanger for this generation of the 3 Series is that you no longer get the legendary handling and suspension that was standard for the past 20 years. You have to pay for it.

BJ
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Last edited by boltjaM3s; 03-31-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-31-2013, 12:27 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
There was a time when a stripped 3 Series was a noble decision. You could live without the options and still get a tight performance car. But today, that's not the case. It's important to note that.
You keep saying this, but it's kind of a stretch. I can think of one option that's required to get a stripped tight performance car: add DHP. That's it. So while your statement is technically true, it's not that big of a deal to just add DHP. Voila, you have a stripped car that still drives like a BMW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s
If one is looking for "value", a stripped 3 Series is a terrible choice.
This I completely disagree with. As an owner of a stripped E90, I can say that I'm excited every time I have to drive my car somewhere. I love the way it looks, the interior, and of course the way it drives. And I don't even have power seats!

It just depends on what you compare it with. Compared to your current car, yeah, it may seem a bit outdated and let's be honest...maybe even in a totally different car category. But compared to anything I owned before, it's amazing. As far as actual driving, it's definitely no slouch, and it still has a real sporty suspension, unlike yours And a stripped F30 will actually have more stuff than a stripped E90...just have to do your research and add DHP (or sports line) to get the real BMW feel.

It seems that perhaps we have a different understanding of the word "performance". For me it means just the actual driving performance of the car. And BMW hasn't lost that with the F30, even if you get a completely stripped car with DHP.

Lastly, have to give credit where it's due. It's people like you that allowed people like me to find this stuff out and get it right before ordering
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Last edited by Supermax; 03-31-2013 at 12:37 PM. Reason: suspension, not transmission, lol
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  #29  
Old 03-31-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
You keep saying this, but it's kind of a stretch. I can think of one option that's required to get a stripped tight performance car: add DHP. That's it. So while your statement is technically true, it's not that big of a deal to just add DHP. Voila, you have a stripped car that still drives like a BMW.
The 320i does not have DHP as an option. So for a completely stripped car to handle like a legendary BMW, you are looking at a 328i and you are already up to $40,000 without a single, other option.

BJ
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  #30  
Old 03-31-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post

This I completely disagree with. As an owner of a stripped E90, I can say that I'm excited every time I have to drive my car somewhere. I love the way it looks, the interior, and of course the way it drives. And I don't even have power seats!

It just depends on what you compare it with. Compared to your current car, yeah, it may seem a bit outdated and let's be honest...maybe even in a totally different car category. But compared to anything I owned before, it's amazing. As far as actual driving, it's definitely no slouch, and it still has a real sporty suspension, unlike yours And a stripped F30 will actually have more stuff than a stripped E90...just have to do your research and add DHP (or sports line) to get the real BMW feel.

It seems that perhaps we have a different understanding of the word "performance". For me it means just the actual driving performance of the car. And BMW hasn't lost that with the F30, even if you get a completely stripped car with DHP.

Lastly, have to give credit where it's due. It's people like you that allowed people like me to find this stuff out and get it right before ordering
I think what you and I are getting tripped up on is the term "value".

A 335i with the mandatory DHP is $45,000. That is without the premium package, without the technology package, without the cold weather package, no line, bland wheels, etc. There is nothing wrong with that if someone wants to go there, but it's no value by any stretch of the word.

A $45,000 328i, different story. A $45,000 320i, that's approaching a very good value. Both of those cars at that price are very well-equipped and very competitive to other luxury brands. Let me know if that makes sense to you, as I want to make sure that we're talking the same language here.

BJ
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  #31  
Old 03-31-2013, 12:51 PM
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Base 328i RWD $36,500 (AWD $38,500)
  • Luxury/Modern Line $2100
  • Premium Package $3,100
  • Technology Package $3100
  • HK (Harmon Kardon) $875
  • Heated Seats $500
  • Lighting Package (Xenons) $900
  • PDC (Parking Distance Control) $750
  • Rear Camera (PDC Required) $400
MSRP: $48,225 (xDrive $50,225)

So the real price of well optioned 328i needs nearly $12,000 in options?!

A 335 RWD with same options is $52,025.
I guess it comes down to personal preference and individual expectations. I believe if you're looking for a car in the $45k to $55k range (like I was), the F30 competes very nicely with the competition at those price points. In fact, I think a loaded 335 slams the competition in that range.

However, if your looking for a car in the $35k to $40k range, I am not so sure. At those price points, I would be inclined to look elsewhere. That's the point I was trying to make.

This is subjective of course and just opinion. There is nothing at all wrong with having a different point of view.
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Last edited by krash; 03-31-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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  #32  
Old 03-31-2013, 01:11 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I think what you and I are getting tripped up on is the term "value".
Agreed. And it comes down to value being completely subjective. I definitely agree that to most people, the 328i with extra options would have more value than a stripped 335i. But to me personally, it's not.

What I was really talking about above was a completely stripped 328i. As long as you add DHP or sport line, even without anything else you'd still have a very nice car overall....and an amazing driver's car....for a reasonably low price.

I admit I forgot about the 320i. But I feel that car is basically just a marketing ploy. It doesn't make much sense to me. I feel that just about everybody buying this car is getting it to say "I own a BMW", not because they truly love it.

I'd rather see BMW release the 4 door 1 series in the US. My wife owns a 2008 4-door hatchback 120i in Europe, and it's an awesome car. Just a perfect entry level BMW that still drives exactly like a BMW. That should be the low budget BMW option. Sigh.

You're right BJ....with the 320i, I think some people will be pretty upset when their car doesn't handle like they thought it should. That's where you come in and console them, letting them know life is still possible without DHP But with a stripped 328i with DHP, I think people still get a whole lot of car with a lot of value.
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  #33  
Old 03-31-2013, 01:29 PM
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I only got lighting and m sport + sport auto and pdc on my car and Sirius added later on.

Could probably do without pdc but i don't feel like it was a waste. 2013 models have plenty of standard features and I don't even like sunroofs or care about Dakota leather.

Got the car for 2000 under invoice with the 1000 BMW fs rebate so ~39k . Not bad at all . Doesn't have a lot of the electronic doodads but I don't really care for them. Drives as well as a stock f30 can drive. Got money left over for my next BMW in 3-5 years


I think the 2 main musts on this car for me are some sort of sport pack and lighting. Everything else I wouldn't regret nearly as much as those two options. Car just doesn't look right on 17s and the halogens don't look very nice for only $900 less.

If I had to buy a 320i with sport and lighting for probable $31-32k invoice I.e. a real stripped car with manual seats etc I think I'd still be pretty happy with it. I know itd drive great and still be built just as well as a $50k f30. All depends on your budget but even a barebones f30 will be a great driver.

Last edited by hans007; 03-31-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:20 PM
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I admit I forgot about the 320i. But I feel that car is basically just a marketing ploy. It doesn't make much sense to me. I feel that just about everybody buying this car is getting it to say "I own a BMW", not because they truly love it.

I'd rather see BMW release the 4 door 1 series in the US. My wife owns a 2008 4-door hatchback 120i in Europe, and it's an awesome car. Just a perfect entry level BMW that still drives exactly like a BMW. That should be the low budget BMW option. Sigh.

You're right BJ....with the 320i, I think some people will be pretty upset when their car doesn't handle like they thought it should. That's where you come in and console them, letting them know life is still possible without DHP But with a stripped 328i with DHP, I think people still get a whole lot of car with a lot of value.
Nobody else makes a car like the 320i - is there another car I can buy for $35k that is rear drive, 6 speed manual, M sport suspension and manual sport seats, no moonroof - the perfect track car setup? This would be the lightest 3 series possible, and should handle great with that light motor up front.

I can't think of any other maker who sells a car like that. That's what's great about BMW. But I agree, a smaller 1 series sedan would be nice, and BMW is supposedly going to give us that.
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  #35  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:30 PM
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Nobody else makes a car like the 320i - is there another car I can buy for $35k that is rear drive, 6 speed manual, M sport suspension and manual sport seats, no moonroof - the perfect track car setup? This would be the lightest 3 series possible, and should handle great with that light motor up front.

I can't think of any other maker who sells a car like that. That's what's great about BMW. But I agree, a smaller 1 series sedan would be nice, and BMW is supposedly going to give us that.
+1

And while it used to be blasphemous to say that a weaker engine could create the better 3 Series, that's not necessarily the case anymore.

With the smaller powerplant, it's conceivable that one doesn't need the Sport package and it's Adaptive M Supension on the 320i, might be tight in the corners as-is because it has less power, less torque, lighter weight, might escape the body roll issue.

BJ
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  #36  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:36 PM
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My DD value proposition would be 328i base with leather and xenon(DHP optional).
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  #37  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
+1

And while it used to be blasphemous to say that a weaker engine could create the better 3 Series, that's not necessarily the case anymore.

With the smaller powerplant, it's conceivable that one doesn't need the Sport package and it's Adaptive M Supension on the 320i, might be tight in the corners as-is because it has less power, less torque, lighter weight, might escape the body roll issue.

BJ

wouldn't the 320i need the sport package just as much as a 328i? its basically the same engine right.

i mean yes sure less power and torque, but im pretty sure the engine in the 320i has more than enough power to get some body roll since you can get that on a 328i at even 40mph on a curve.

maybe if they came out with a 1.6 L i-3 320i (the 3 cylinder makes 180ish hp in the prototypes that have been driven) then maybe you get a little more weight savings there..
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  #38  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:41 PM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Nanny-state features? When I think of nanny-state features, I think of the Smart Car, a Toyota Prius, or those horrible communist cars they used to make in the Soviet Union. Seriously dude, bad analogy! It's the exact opposite. People that have the financial wherewithal to load their cars up with all the goodies are hardly dependent upon the government for anything...
i learned to drive in one of those. , it was only 10 years or so older than me, but i was around 12 then. They were pretty bad but i would love to have one now in my backyard. No power anything, including steering, and you could always start the car with a crank, or put it in gear and have your friends push it
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:47 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The 320i does not have DHP as an option. So for a completely stripped car to handle like a legendary BMW, you are looking at a 328i and you are already up to $40,000 without a single, other option.

BJ
The 320 does not offer DHP but offers the 18" wheels, sports suspension, sports seats and M steering wheel for half of what the model lines cost. I think its something like $1300. Its a bargain and if BMW offered it on the 328 a lot of purists would be all over such a package.
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  #40  
Old 03-31-2013, 03:01 PM
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A 3 is not a 5. The size may have caught up, but the quality is still a 3.
i really don't think the current 3 loses out much to even the current 5.

the main things it seems like buying a 5 lets you get are things like even higher trim options like nicer leather (nappa leather option) or say ventilated seats or for example a bang and olufsen system instead of HK (b&o is better than HK). things like soft close doors, ceramic control surfaces, rear seat entertainment, and night vision that you can get on the 5, but are options. oh and its bigger, which isnt even necessarily a good thing for lots of people. i guess it depends on what you consider quality. quality is not the same as available features right?

everytime i've sat in a F10 5 series, it doesnt strike me as "much better quality" or anything like that other than being bigger.

if you sit in an equiavlently optioned 528i vs a 328i with roughly equivalent options i don't think you sit there thinking, yeah this 528i is better quality. maybe if you get a loaded 535i with every possible option vs a 335i with every option available there'd be a few differences (as i noted above) but nothing mind blowing

maybe if you are comparing a 7 seires and a 3, but the "middle child" in most of the luxury makes doesn't ever seem much better than the lower one just bigger (i feel the same way about the current A4 / A6)

Last edited by hans007; 03-31-2013 at 03:05 PM.
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  #41  
Old 03-31-2013, 03:04 PM
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Nobody else makes a car like the 320i - is there another car I can buy for $35k that is rear drive, 6 speed manual, M sport suspension and manual sport seats, no moonroof - the perfect track car setup? This would be the lightest 3 series possible, and should handle great with that light motor up front.

I can't think of any other maker who sells a car like that. That's what's great about BMW. But I agree, a smaller 1 series sedan would be nice, and BMW is supposedly going to give us that.
I do agree with you about the 320. Plus, it's really cool how they throw in the M Sport Wheel with the sport package. That's great value right there.
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  #42  
Old 03-31-2013, 03:19 PM
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Inline Sixer Inline Sixer is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Nobody else makes a car like the 320i - is there another car I can buy for $35k that is rear drive, 6 speed manual, M sport suspension and manual sport seats, no moonroof - the perfect track car setup? This would be the lightest 3 series possible, and should handle great with that light motor up front.

I can't think of any other maker who sells a car like that. That's what's great about BMW. But I agree, a smaller 1 series sedan would be nice, and BMW is supposedly going to give us that.
+1

Yup, indeed you can get a 320i with m-sport suspension. Think about that and that 0-60 in 7.1s isn't slow.

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  #43  
Old 03-31-2013, 04:06 PM
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+1

Yup, indeed you can get a 320i with m-sport suspension. Think about that and that 0-60 in 7.1s isn't slow.
It's certainly an interesting way to go. Saving $4000 vs the 328i could be put toward an LSD, Performance Exhaust, and I'm sure eventually they'll have some power boost upgrades.
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  #44  
Old 03-31-2013, 04:23 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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It's certainly an interesting way to go. Saving $4000 vs the 328i could be put toward an LSD, Performance Exhaust, and I'm sure eventually they'll have some power boost upgrades.
BMS already offers a 320 tune.
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  #45  
Old 03-31-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
It's certainly an interesting way to go. Saving $4000 vs the 328i could be put toward an LSD, Performance Exhaust, and I'm sure eventually they'll have some power boost upgrades.
Plus, one can theoretically be crazy enough to punch an opposite faux exhaust on the right rear side of a 320i, and get a (presumably stolen) 335i badge from a junk yard. Viola: luxury, prestige and performance on a budget. We CAN have it all folks...
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  #46  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:02 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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From a quality standpoint, it is not up the standards of the E60 or the E39.


Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
We're not comparing a 3 to 5 of today. We're comparing 3 of today to a 5 of 10 years ago.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:03 PM
shabadoo25 shabadoo25 is offline
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You can load an Accord with all the options and once they get boring to play with, you're stuck with a snooze to drive.

I'd rather have a stripped 328i then a loaded family sedan bore fest any day of the week. Can't speak to the 320i--never seen one.
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  #48  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:26 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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From a quality standpoint, it is not up the standards of the E60 or the E39.
+1, agreed from trim quality perspective(leather, trim piece, door feel, felt-covered panels), however, the F30 engine technology and chassis design and driving characteristics are improved over E39(and probably E60 as well).
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  #49  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:44 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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I have owned three 3s and two 5s, the latest of which is my 07 530i. I have driven quite a few F30s, and there is no question in my mind that the $10k price delta between the two series is there for a reason. It has nothing to do with the equipment or the options. Everything from the dashboard and the sunroof shade down to the seats, the doors, the window motors and the dashboard is built to a different standard.

Open the door of an F30 and tap the end of the dashboard (the part that mates up with the door). Then do that on a 5 Series, and you'll see what I mean.

Nobody with an F30 is complaining about rattles?

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Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
i really don't think the current 3 loses out much to even the current 5.

if you sit in an equiavlently optioned 528i vs a 328i with roughly equivalent options i don't think you sit there thinking, yeah this 528i is better quality.
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  #50  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:48 PM
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Location: PA
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,703
Mein Auto: 2013 335i Sport Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
+1, agreed from trim quality perspective(leather, trim piece, door feel, felt-covered panels), however, the F30 engine technology and chassis design and driving characteristics are improved over E39(and probably E60 as well).
The overall package is better.
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2013 335i: Sport Line, Premium, Technology, DHP, HK, 8 Speed Sport w/Paddles, Heated Seats, PDC, Camera
2004 330ci: zhp, Premium, Dinan upgrades (various)
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