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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 04-01-2013, 09:55 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Jameson, that's exactly my point - OEM 4 pots without mods. It might be a car for lease only but I won't go as far to call it "s* by AMG".

No disrespect for N20.
There is nothing wrong with it. Compares well to the Audi 2.5 from the ttrs.

But it's not magic, it's a lot of boost. My point was just software that cranks up boost on the n20 can make the same power.

Basically if there was no 335, BMW could have made some gnarly high boost n20 with 350hp if they wanted to.
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  #77  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
Lol knew it.


terry is getting 280+ and 318 out of the n20 rofl and those aren't crank numbers like the AMG

http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_performance_Tuner.html
Really, so 283 hp on race gas w/ warranty-shredding aftermarket tune is as impressive as AMG's 355 hp factory tune on pump gas?
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  #78  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
There is nothing wrong with it. Compares well to the Audi 2.5 from the ttrs.

But it's not magic, it's a lot of boost. My point was just software that cranks up boost on the n20 can make the same power.

Basically if there was no 335, BMW could have made some gnarly high boost n20 with 350hp if they wanted to.
AMG is all about big engines, so they had to do this to save face. M Division is more about balance.
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  #79  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:49 AM
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Lol take a step back and process. Re-read. My post says that would be an absurd comparison. Just read it a few times. Remember just like before a 335i is not a 335is.
Yes, you made a lot of absurd comments: 1M is not a real M car, 3 series convertibles always cost more than M cars etc. By the way, you may be in luck, the M Division is considering making this:

Quote:
"Until now, the Bavarian maker has said it would not do an M version of its flagship model but that sentiment appears to be changing, especially with Willisch's counterpart in China also lending his support" says the report by TheDetroitBureau.

We also the M7 being registered by BMW as a trademark.
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Last edited by Chris90; 04-01-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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  #80  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:00 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
LOL indeed. But you are comparing apples to oranges - 4 banger vs. I-6. It's techno marvel to get 335 hp from OEM 4 pots.
didnt mitsubishi have the fq360 and 400 evos years ago.

they didnt even have direct injection to work with then, probably could get even more now.
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  #81  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:08 PM
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Yes, you made a lot of absurd comments: 1M is not a real M car, 3 series convertibles always cost more than M cars etc. By the way, you may be in luck, the M Division is considering making this:



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  #82  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:17 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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didnt mitsubishi have the fq360 and 400 evos years ago.

they didnt even have direct injection to work with then, probably could get even more now.
Yep, was going to mention the EVO!

Those higher versions were not sold here, but again, 2.0L of displacement and a crap load of boost =300-400hp no problem.

There are higher than 300hp variants of the JDM STI too, with a 2.0L instead of our USDM 2.5L.
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  #83  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:25 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Yes, you made a lot of absurd comments: 1M is not a real M car, 3 series convertibles always cost more than M cars etc. By the way, you may be in luck, the M Division is considering making this:
Maybe. But you're still doing some absurd reading. I said 335is costs more and verts in general cost more than their sedan/coupe counterparts. I'm starting rosetta stone for spanish to get a head start for next semester I can check and see if I can get you a discount on the english one if you'd like

I guess until that m7 comes out people will just have to settle for this:
http://www.luxury4play.com/bmw/10919...w-m-745li.html

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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Really, so 283 hp on race gas w/ warranty-shredding aftermarket tune is as impressive as AMG's 355 hp factory tune on pump gas?
lol its stage1, its his first rollout of a tune for the n20 and VERY impressive. Until I see a dyno where its 355+ quoting crank numbers does nothing for me.

Last edited by SuperTerp; 04-01-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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  #84  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:33 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
Maybe. But you're still doing some absurd reading. I said 335is costs more and verts in general cost more than their sedan/coupe counterparts. I'm starting rosetta stone for spanish to get a head start for next semester I can check and see if I can get you a discount on the english one if you'd like



lol its stage1, its his first rollout of a tune for the n20 and VERY impressive. Until I see a dyno where its 355+ quoting crank numbers does nothing for me.
Don't forget 300whp/350tq all stock but on E85. But for me, E85 is not readily available. Stage 2 with no hardware is netting about 275-280whp, so my goal of 300whp with downpipe and exhaust will be easy to meet. That is with boost in the low 20's which is about all I would want and still have a sense of longevity in mind.
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  #85  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:38 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Don't forget 300whp/350tq all stock but on E85. But for me, E85 is not readily available. Stage 2 with no hardware is netting about 275-280whp, so my goal of 300whp with downpipe and exhaust will be easy to meet. That is with boost in the low 20's which is about all I would want and still have a sense of longevity in mind.
Exactly. And we're not talking crank numbers like keep getting gushed over in here.
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  #86  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:51 PM
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355hp out of a turbocharged 2.0L 4-cylinder is a lot. 20+ psi of boost. It's going to have a lot of turbo lag and the only way you'll get that 4.5 0-60 time is with launch control (ie, clutch-killing). It'll probably be like the Subaru WRX. It has a sub-5.0 0-60 time but the 5-60 time (no clutch drop) is 6+ seconds.
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  #87  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
didnt mitsubishi have the fq360 and 400 evos years ago.

they didnt even have direct injection to work with then, probably could get even more now.
Maybe that's why BMW used a Mitsubishi turbo for the N26?
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  #88  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:12 PM
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Exactly. And we're not talking crank numbers like keep getting gushed over in here.
We're talking factory tunes, not 600 hp Civics. Meaning you can blow up your engine at 49k miles and the dealer will replace it (although they'd probably void your warranty cause you have Koni shocks.)
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  #89  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:14 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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355hp out of a turbocharged 2.0L 4-cylinder is a lot. 20+ psi of boost. It's going to have a lot of turbo lag and the only way you'll get that 4.5 0-60 time is with launch control (ie, clutch-killing). It'll probably be like the Subaru WRX. It has a sub-5.0 0-60 time but the 5-60 time (no clutch drop) is 6+ seconds.
There is no reason to assume the will be a lot of lag. These newer engines with direct injection and higher CR are not like they were a few years ago.

Your assumptions on launch though might be dead on.
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  #90  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:20 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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We're talking factory tunes, not 600 hp Civics. Meaning you can blow up your engine at 49k miles and the dealer will replace it (although they'd probably void your warranty cause you have Koni shocks.)
A 600hp Civic Is a fully built block and big turbo, $10k+build. We are talking about no hardware, just a tune N20.

I get you, either way, you have a voided warranty.

My point was nothing special to me about a high output turbo 4 if the boost is that high. Our n20s are just as capable, but if you want it to be 100% OEM, StI and EVOs with 2.0l and 300-400hp have been offered for nearly a decade now.

Often 1psi=10hp, that's the generic calculation. So if this AMG peaks at 26psi, 260hp is boost alone, meaning the engine itself needs to only kick in 100hp, so yeah a 2.0l NA engine making 100hp. Nothing that special there that hasn't been done for a decade. But the japanese tuner cars did it without direct injector and whatnot which just means the newer stuff is much less laggy.
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  #91  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AK View Post
355hp out of a turbocharged 2.0L 4-cylinder is a lot. 20+ psi of boost. It's going to have a lot of turbo lag and the only way you'll get that 4.5 0-60 time is with launch control (ie, clutch-killing). It'll probably be like the Subaru WRX. It has a sub-5.0 0-60 time but the 5-60 time (no clutch drop) is 6+ seconds.
A 335 with auto gets 0-60 time in about 5 secs. The difference between 4.5 and 5.0 secs isn't perceptible by a human being - unless of course you're on some sort of a track or drag strip and they have the ability to measure it to that degree. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a big concern for some of the folks on the 'fest, but seriously, in the real world...
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  #92  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
A 600hp Civic Is a fully built block and big turbo, $10k+build. We are talking about no hardware, just a tune N20.

I get you, either way, you have a voided warranty.

My point was nothing special to me about a high output turbo 4 if the boost is that high. Our n20s are just as capable, but if you want it to be 100% OEM, StI and EVOs with 2.0l and 300-400hp have been offered for nearly a decade now.
Yeah, I know it's not that impressive in a technical sense, but the vast majority of new car buyers aren't comfortable voiding their warranty. I'm not sure I would even do a stage 1 tune on a turbo car, I'd probably rather pay up the butt for a BMW Performance tune.

And none of those high output STIs and EVOs have ever been sold in the US.
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  #93  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:31 PM
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A 335 with auto gets 0-60 time in about 5 secs. The difference between 4.5 and 5.0 secs isn't perceptible by a human being - unless of course you're on some sort of a track or drag strip and they have the ability to measure it to that degree.
You will definitely notice the difference in g force. Can't really compare factory 0-60 times though anyway.
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  #94  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:32 PM
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A 335 with auto gets 0-60 time in about 5 secs. The difference between 4.5 and 5.0 secs isn't perceptible by a human being - unless of course you're on some sort of a track or drag strip and they have the ability to measure it to that degree. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a big concern for some of the folks on the 'fest, but seriously, in the real world...
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  #95  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:23 PM
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Maybe that's why BMW used a Mitsubishi turbo for the N26?


Believe it or not, I read that article by Car & Driver a few years back when N20 was launched initially. It says : " The BMW N20 gets a version of the tried and true Mitsubishi TN04 Turbo. BMW has a specific version of the turbo so the completed model number is TD04-LR6. "
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  #96  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:07 AM
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You Benz haters are funny man. Some facts:

1. That car looks hot, in and out
2. It's bigger than the current C Class and right there with the F30
3. It's an AMG and will be badass.
4. Exhaust and engine will sound good, unlike the 328.
5. 48K is a stripper price and most of these will MSRP mid 50s to 60. Benz option packages are crucial and pricey.
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  #97  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:21 PM
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The car just looks so goofy, immature, awkward, desperate and dorky (those lines will date faster than a bottle of milk). Plus, FWD especially matched with a 4-banger are a no go (the former being responsible for the terrible proportions). 335i is still inherently on a different (higher) level, performance not necessarily withstanding.
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  #98  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:07 PM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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This AMG > 328/335

It's like trying to compare the 1M to a 250/350, ridiculous.
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