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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quinn Lasser Quinn Lasser is offline
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Too Much Technology?

So, we've had this car since October 31st. The mileage is low, under 2,000 miles. Until about a week ago my bluetooth was working perfectly. I never did get the interface working with the iPhone so I know I'm losing out on a whole host of functions in that regard. Last week I replaced my IPhone and now Bluetooth stopped recognizing it. I know it will just take a bit of fiddling around with it to get it to work. But still, very frustrating.

I guess my question is two fold, and I thought about this before the car stopped recognizing my new phone. When is there too much technology? Between sensors that don't work, and Bluetooth that doesn't pick up a new phone, back up cameras, computer glitches, programming difficulties, you get the point, is there a time when we are getting away from the pleasure of just driving to the aggravation of having to deal with computers and technology while trying to just "drive"?

And the second part of that question is, when does a car move from the realm of just being a great driving machine to being a luxury car. Is it comfort, is it more computer options is it more entertainment options? Does a luxury car mean more options so therefore more opportunities for something to go wrong?
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:36 AM
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:47 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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IMO, once you cross a certain car price bracket then there should be a commensurable amount of technology.

About glitches, well, I'm a computer engineer and pretty much I can tell when there is real glitch or just an user error. And most of the time there is an user error from the point of view of the technology feature. Which means to me that there is a glitch in the design of the feature so that the user cannot make logical sense of the steps to enable/perform the feature. Thus the confusion, the frustration, the induced user error that isn't.

For example, in your particular case the steps to pair a Bluetooth Phone are not the best but they do work most of the time. Now, BMW realized -perhaps because of complaints like yours- that the pairing steps can be further streamlined to avoid problems/confusion. So starting from the NBT iDrive in the AH3, you just pair the phone in one step instead of 4-5. Just select pair at the iDrive and that's it -no more pairing digits.

About driving and luxury, I do not think that they are mutually exclusive or at two different realms. A Ferrari is a sports car with an extremelly luxurious cabin and quite an extensive option list that include most of the technology of pure luxury cars. Or you can get an Atom and luxury be damned.
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:49 AM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn Lasser View Post
When is there too much technology?
Pretty much as soon you continue adding gadgets beyond those needed to keep the driver comfortable and in control of the vehicle. In other words, it happened over a decade ago and there's no turning back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Here comes the fun.
Oh yeah.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:07 AM
sr5959 sr5959 is online now
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To me a BMW is about the combination of sportiness, luxury and technology.

I can understand those who think the technology is too much and for them there are other options out there or the BMW can be ordered without the tech options.

Even though I generally love the tech features there are some I dislike such as radar cruise control and lane-assist packages.
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:33 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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The market for a car like the 3 series demands the latest technology and the 3 series has what
s popular in this class of car. Bluetooth is absolutely required in a car these days and backup camera's soon will be standard on all cars as they should be. The reality is if you don't want these features yet want the 3 series driving dynamic, an E46 is your best bet.
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:42 AM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn Lasser View Post
When is there too much technology?
I don't think there is any inherent problem with technology, although it may require learning new things. Some (usually older) people simply refuse to learn new aspects of technology, so for them it can be a problem. But hey, I'm sure some people originally refused to drive cars because a horse was easier to operate than learning something new

Yes, electronic things break and sometimes software doesn't work as intended. But combustion engines break too. So do transmissions, and every other mechanical part of the car. Technically we don't need any technological gadgets in the car except 2-3 pedals, a gear shifter, and a steering wheel. But it's nice to have other things to make us more comfortable and enhance the experience. Although it's clear that some people need more of these "extras" than others.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
The market for a car like the 3 series demands the latest technology and the 3 series has what
s popular in this class of car. Bluetooth is absolutely required in a car these days and backup camera's soon will be standard on all cars as they should be. The reality is if you don't want these features yet want the 3 series driving dynamic, an E46 is your best bet.
I think if I would have ordered an E46 330i instead of a 325i, I would have never bought the E46 M3. That being said, going from that to the F30 has been a very pleasant transition--even with all the "technology". Light years ahead.
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  #9  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:48 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Pretty much as soon you continue adding gadgets beyond those needed to keep the driver comfortable and in control of the vehicle. In other words, it happened over a decade ago and there's no turning back.
^this. BMWs have pretty much always had "too much technology". They have always been on the "cutting edge" of new automotive technology and the technology that would first be available from BMW (and Mercedes) would make its way into the mainstream of the automotive world years later. These days we are entering a new realm of technological advancement where technology has gotten so cheap to produce that the market demand necessary to justify putting it in new cars has gotten so low that even cars like Kia and Hyundai have almost all of the most current technology. BMW and Mercedes still tend to be at the forefront of technology development, but these days that forefront is not as far out as it used to be.

A couple of good examples are headlight technology and BMW's Advanced Crash Notification. BMW first made xenon headlights available on the 7 Series more than 20 years ago. Even though people here complain about xenon headlights not being standard on the 328i (and all BMWs) the fact is they are not standard on the lower end Merc C Class models or on the base Audi A4 and the rest of the automotive industry is just now beginning to slowly add them as standard equipment on a few models and make them optional on a few others.

Now as LED headlights are just beginning to be offered BMW is already developing the next headlight technology with laser headlights.

BMW's Advanced Crash Notification system has been in place since the 2009 model year. It uses sophisticated algorithms to analyze the data collected by crash sensors throughout the car to determine the severity of a crash and actually predict the likelihood and severity of injuries to the car's occupants. It then transmits this data to the BMW Assist call center where they immediately notify first responders so they can respond to the crash with advance knowledge of what to expect and how to be prepared. The next step in the program development is for the data to be transmitted directly to first responders and hospitals. This is already happening in Miami, Florida, which is where BMW's partner in the system development is located. Since 2009 this feature has been part of the BMW Assist option and has included a four year subscription. For the 2014 model year BMW is making the feature standard equipment and including a 10 year subscription. BMW has made a very substantial investment in developing this system and has offered the technology for free to all other automakers. To date no other automakers have taken advantage of BMW's offer.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 04-01-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:04 PM
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I wonder if a loaded F30 will be a nightmare to own when it's 5 years old. All these warnings about broken features flashing on the screen and dash.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:08 PM
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:24 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
I wonder if a loaded F30 will be a nightmare to own when it's 5 years old. All these warnings about broken features flashing on the screen and dash.
I doubt it. This is all solid state electronics and computer updatable flashing.

I suppose eventually pixels will burn out on some displays but this is years down the road. Any car has costly issues if you keep them long enough.

Last edited by Michael Schott; 04-01-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:32 PM
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Bluetooth isn't exactly bleeding edge in terms of technology, nor is it something I'd consider to be ultra-luxurious. Nowadays, even the cheapest of cars have Bluetooth capability. I see Bluetooth as a must have purely for safety and convenience.

On the other hand, I do think BMW Apps is pushing it a little bit. Coming from someone that is has all the bells and whistles in his car, I see very limited value in terms of this feature. I don't even use it.

But all the other technology features add value and make the car easier and more enjoyable to drive.

When they added radar and GPS navigation to planes years ago, I think you would be challenged to find a pilot that would say, I really wish we could just fly and not worry about all the technology.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quinn Lasser Quinn Lasser is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Here comes the fun.
good
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:27 PM
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I doubt it. This is all solid state electronics and computer updatable flashing.

I suppose eventually pixels will burn out on some displays but this is years down the road. Any car has costly issues if you keep them long enough.
What about all the sensors and cameras? O2 sensors and wheel sensors are failing all the time on older BMWs.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:29 PM
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bocabimmer bocabimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
I wonder if a loaded F30 will be a nightmare to own when it's 5 years old. All these warnings about broken features flashing on the screen and dash.
Every car is going this direction. It starts with simple things like O2 sensors and wheel speed sensors and will go all the way up to all the new things like cameras and radars.

Take the frequent issues owners of Mercedes ML owners where the yaw rate sensor that should help prevent rollovers decides to fail: your car locks up the brakes on one side while you're on the highway. Scary? Yes. Dangerous? Absolutely!

Now multiply this by all the safety systems being added to cars. They are only as good as the equipment that provides them data. Hardware fails and it can cause anything from an annoyance to an accident.

As cars get more complicated, I'm less confident owning one out of warranty.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:41 PM
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Every car is going this direction. It starts with simple things like O2 sensors and wheel speed sensors and will go all the way up to all the new things like cameras and radars.

Take the frequent issues owners of Mercedes ML owners where the yaw rate sensor that should help prevent rollovers decides to fail: your car locks up the brakes on one side while you're on the highway. Scary? Yes. Dangerous? Absolutely!

Now multiply this by all the safety systems being added to cars. They are only as good as the equipment that provides them data. Hardware fails and it can cause anything from an annoyance to an accident.

As cars get more complicated, I'm less confident owning one out of warranty.
Makes me wonder if the 3 series will become like the 7 series: low mileage used models selling for $5k.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:57 PM
Pappy Pipes Pappy Pipes is offline
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Technology that works is enabling, tech that fails is frustrating. The iDrive learning curve is steep at first but well with the bounty of tech enhancements delivered. Time will tell how reliable the tech will be long term but the old adage goes, "if a motherboard doesn't fail in the first 30 days it likely never will". I don't know why you'd expect a new iPhone to automatically pair with Bluetooth without setting it up? The host didn't recognize the new iPhone's ID. Good luck!
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:19 PM
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slave2gravity slave2gravity is offline
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I'm curious if there are any packages or options that people ordered that now regret them, either do to non-use or nagging issues? Between my wife and I, pretty much all the boxes ended up being checked on our 335i order, and now that the excitement of building the car is settling and I'm going to have to write a check soon, I'm wondering what, if any, of those options I might later view as a waste of money. I could see something like the HUD feature falling into this category, as well as the parking sensors (though perhaps not blind spot detection). For that matter, I've never been a fan of nav systems, since a) I rarely use it, and b) technology evolves so quickly that they look, feel and perform dated in just a couple years.

Thoughts?

To the OPs original question, yes I think technology is going to far in cars. I'm an auto enthusiast from the act of driving standpoint, so typically if it doesn't improve performance (not necessarily defined by absolute numbers) or driver involvement, I'm less inclined to get it. I do enjoy creature comforts, though, like cruise control, AC and an ability to listen to my iPhone while driving. I think the ability to check your FB / Twitter / MySpace feeds are ridiculous. However, I think technology is probably there to fill a need we never knew existed (such as rear seat entertainment systems). I saw Honda Odyssey's new model includes a built in ShopVac...now that's useful tech! :-P
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:24 PM
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I think that it is only "one size fits all" that actually creates a problem. It is not tech tolerance or age of the person that is the problem (45, reasonably tech-savvy) - it is IMPOSITION of a choice A over my preferred choice B.

So, this said, we'll save mountain of popcorn if everybody (not just car makers) obeys few very simple rules:

1. If you MUST put it in by a law, then no further action is necessary.

2. If you put it in by YOUR choice and, de facto, are imposing YOUR choice on others then make sure user will have a choice NOT to use it. Through password enabled settings, dealer programming ... blah, blah, blah.

3. The best solution is to opt-in or opt-out before you pay for the product, but reasonably that is not always an option.

It's really that simple. However, just as with MT or AWD, there will always be those who "That's the best of both worlds, why would anybody want any different?" - making a life miserable to sometimes substantial minority.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
...These days we are entering a new realm of technological advancement where technology has gotten so cheap to produce that the market demand necessary to justify putting it in new cars has gotten so low that even cars like Kia and Hyundai have almost all of the most current technology...
This was my initial take on the subject when I started browsing through this thread.
Advancements in technology is not only getting cheaper but competition between manufacturers is also contributing to this acceleration; not only in the automotive industry but pretty much in all other areas too. Rapid increase in technology and gadgets are inevitable. Whether we like it or not, whether we agree with it, or not. Fact is we (and especially the older generations) will have to move with these changes. Just my opinion...
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:39 PM
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2. If you put it in by YOUR choice and, de facto, are imposing YOUR choice on others then make sure user will have a choice NOT to use it. Through password enabled settings, dealer programming ... blah, blah, blah.
...
In example, ASS
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:41 PM
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:35 PM
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:46 PM
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Get the base line 3 with 6MT and call it a day of good driving.
Haha. Nice!
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