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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:01 AM
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BmwFlooner BmwFlooner is offline
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Originally Posted by krash View Post
DHP gives folks the option to firm it up and make it tighter. You can feel the road better. You can do this by setting it to Sport Mode.

DHP also adds variable steering too, which is really nice.
I wish variable steering had been offered separately. I like having the tighter sport suspension in Comfort, but I probably would have enjoyed the maneuverability of vss.

*Still better than I had*.
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  #77  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by HokieXDriver View Post
I see, thanks. When I was taking the test drive, the CA showed me something on the iDrive and said something like, this is where you can adjust the drivetrain, chassis, etc. That's why I thought there were individual settings. I admit I wasn't paying attention because there was traffic and we were approaching lights.
I've seen posts on here that allow the suspension to be in comfort mode (adjusted via iDrive) while the throttle/shift points/steering are in sport mode. I would have thought the reverse were also possible. I think you are correct.
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  #78  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:23 AM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Someone in this forum described the F10 as "opulent". Very true. But, I own an E60, and I don't think the F30 is substantially worse. Fewer power controls on the seats and none on the steering. I might miss that. The dash plastics are a little softer and less shiny in the E60.

I thought about an F10 550 M Sport - lot of money, and ultimately on a test drive it felt big, even in Sport mode. Athletic, yes, but big.

Now, the F10 M5 - sure...great combination of opulence and performance. If I had that kind of money...
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  #79  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
I've seen posts on here that allow the suspension to be in comfort mode (adjusted via iDrive) while the throttle/shift points/steering are in sport mode. I would have thought the reverse were also possible. I think you are correct.
Ok, I am off today, so I just went outside to check.

With DHP, you can override the default settings of sport mode to:
  • Adjust suspension and drivetrain
  • drivetrain only
  • suspension
But it's clunky while doing that on the fly. (i.e., it's not at the push of a button). I just leave it so that when I hit the sport button, it changes both, which makes the most sense to me for how I drive.

In terms of comfort mode, there isn't any obvious way to adjust any parameter settings (unless I am just not seeing that).
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Last edited by krash; 04-01-2013 at 12:12 PM.
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  #80  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:33 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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I'm not so sure that the CPO path is a real bargain, when you consider the overall cost of ownership. It seems there's still a lot of depreciation that is being passed along to the buyer.

To me, it is probably more cost efficient to buy a new car ever six years than to buy a used car every three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
I've spoken to many people about this. Buying a car that's less than 3 years old and has 20-30K miles on it is optimal from a value perspective; the most amount of depreciation occurs during that time period. If I went that route with a BMW I would extend the warranty to 100K miles on a CPO. With CarFax and other such services the new buyer to check the service records for these used cars and increase the likelihood of not buying someone else's lemon.

I bought a Toyota Land Cruiser when my kids were young this way and this may have been the best vehicle investment I ever made in my life. Gone are the days of cheap gas, though.
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  #81  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:32 PM
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To me, it is probably more cost efficient to buy a new car ever six years than to buy a used car every three.
My philosophy too, if only I can get off my butt and actually do it.

But even celebrities drive old cars.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...r/viewall.html
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  #82  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
I'm not so sure that the CPO path is a real bargain, when you consider the overall cost of ownership. It seems there's still a lot of depreciation that is being passed along to the buyer.

To me, it is probably more cost efficient to buy a new car ever six years than to buy a used car every three.
CPOs are really overpriced, it's like paying MSRP on a new car. You can bargain of course, but it's easier to bargain on a new car. If you're using ED and incentives on the new car, the savings buying CPO is a lot smaller.
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  #83  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:18 PM
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CPOs are really overpriced, it's like paying MSRP on a new car. You can bargain of course, but it's easier to bargain on a new car. If you're using ED and incentives on the new car, the savings buying CPO is a lot smaller.
I think it's hard to make generalizations, but in general, there are a lot more unknowns with used cars -- amount of wear, etc., really depends on how the car was driven. Edmunds TMV should be a pretty good indicator of what the car is worth, barring any excess wear and tear on the drivetrain. It's definitely easier to negotiate on a new car because we know what others are paying and the car is a known quantity.
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  #84  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
I'm taking turns now on a 328i xdrive....

For me on a budget I'd get:
Cold Weather Package $900
Lighting Package $900
Premium Package $3100
Technology Package $3100
(id still really want DAP)

Right way to do it:
Cold Weather Package $900
Driver Assistance Package $750
Dynamic Handling Package $1000
Lighting Package $900
Premium Package $3100
Technology Package $3100
Harman Kardon surround sound system $875
Anti-theft alarm system $400
Base 328i AWD $38,500
Your Economy build 328i has $8,000 options, $46,500 MSRP
Right Way to do it build 328i has $11,025 options, $49,025 MSRP

Are either of these an economy build?! I would consider an economy build to be options not exceeding 15% of the base MSRP or under $5,775 of total options.
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  #85  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:02 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
Base 328i AWD $38,500
Your Economy build 328i has $8,000 options, $46,500 MSRP
Right Way to do it build 328i has $11,025 options, $49,025 MSRP

Are either of these an economy build?! I would consider an economy build to be options not exceeding 15% of the base MSRP or under $5,775 of total options.
My first build was an economy build lol. RWD, 6mt, metallic paint and heated seats. MSRP was about $37k.
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  #86  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:06 PM
Pappy Pipes Pappy Pipes is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
I'm not so sure that the CPO path is a real bargain, when you consider the overall cost of ownership. It seems there's still a lot of depreciation that is being passed along to the buyer.

To me, it is probably more cost efficient to buy a new car ever six years than to buy a used car every three.
Driving rental Camaro last few days and treating it with real contempt. Every time I floor it or slam on the brakes it reminds me how irresponsible some BMW lessees treat their cars. I hear them bragging about it on this forum. I'd have to suspend my belief to buy a CPO and that's exactly what dealers want to you do by offering them. They don't want you to consider how the car was driven before it became yours. Not worth the $ at any cost IMO!
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  #87  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Pappy Pipes View Post
Driving rental Camaro last few days and treating it with real contempt. Every time I floor it or slam on the brakes it reminds me how irresponsible some BMW lessees treat their cars. I hear them bragging about it on this forum. I'd have to suspend my belief to buy a CPO and that's exactly what dealers want to you do by offering them. They don't want you to consider how the car was driven before it became yours. Not worth the $ at any cost IMO!
Yeah, i certainly don't think people should assume CPO means it was well taken care of. I bought my ZHP privately from a BMW instructor, visited his house - he was the type to wash his cars daily, and his house was immaculate. That's the kind of previous owner you want.
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  #88  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:27 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pappy Pipes View Post
Every time I floor it or slam on the brakes it reminds me how irresponsible some BMW lessees treat their cars. I hear them bragging about it on this forum. I'd have to suspend my belief to buy a CPO and that's exactly what dealers want to you do by offering them. They don't want you to consider how the car was driven before it became yours. Not worth the $ at any cost IMO!
What do you mean by irresponsible? Failure to perform maintenance and cleaning on a regular basis? Smoking, eating, or drinking beverages other than water in the vehicle?

If a CPO (or any pre-owned) car has been properly maintained and passes inspection by a skilled independent technician, why would such a vehicle not be worth considering?
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  #89  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:31 PM
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A car may still pass inspection even though it was driven hard. That said, you can still sense something about a car's character and treatment when you see it in person.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
What do you mean by irresponsible? Failure to perform maintenance and cleaning on a regular basis? Smoking, eating, or drinking beverages other than water in the vehicle?

If a CPO (or any pre-owned) car has been properly maintained and passes inspection by a skilled independent technician, why would such a vehicle not be worth considering?
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  #90  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Pappy Pipes Pappy Pipes is offline
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
What do you mean by irresponsible? Failure to perform maintenance and cleaning on a regular basis? Smoking, eating, or drinking beverages other than water in the vehicle?

If a CPO (or any pre-owned) car has been properly maintained and passes inspection by a skilled independent technician, why would such a vehicle not be worth considering?
CPO prices being equivalent to MSRP is an apt analogy. CPOs are horrendously overpriced and usually have much higher mileage than equivalently optioned, lower priced, identical models. If I were buying used I'd get the lowest milage car for my money and have an independent mechanic do the diagnostics.

Buying a car -- especially a used one -- is alway fraught with potential problems. CPOs don't protect you from that. My hunch is CPOs were invented by a bunch of drunk used car salesmen at a Las Vegas convention to sell used cars to buyers who are wary of them.
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  #91  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:08 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
A car may still pass inspection even though it was driven hard. That said, you can still sense something about a car's character and treatment when you see it in person.
Good point about the in-person evaluation, Robert A. This underscores the importance of a thorough test drive.

Speaking of driving, aren't BMWs meant to be driven hard? They represent the "Ultimate Driving Machine", after all.

As a person who relies on bicycling for transportation, if I had a Trek Madone 7 Series bicycle I certainly wouldn't operate it in the same manner as a Huffy cruiser. And if I were to purchase a pre-owned Madone 7, I would be concerned if it wasn't used in a spirited, even aggressive fashion. By the same token, as an automobile driver, I certainly wouldn't operate a BMW of any vintage like I would a softly sprung large sedan like an Impala, Taurus, or Azera. My expectations for how a pre-owned BMW automobile has been driven would mirror what I mentioned previously about the Madone 7 bicycle..
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  #92  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:19 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pappy Pipes View Post
CPO prices being equivalent to MSRP is an apt analogy. CPOs are horrendously overpriced and usually have much higher mileage than equivalently optioned, lower priced, identical models. If I were buying used I'd get the lowest milage car for my money and have an independent mechanic do the diagnostics.
Gotcha, thanks Pappy Pipes. I've seen many competitively priced BMW CPO cars on AutoTrader and Cars.com, but a quick comparison between CPO and non CPO E90 cars of the same model year and similar mileage most certainly corroborates your assertion about the CPO price premium.

Thanks again for sharing your perspective. In the spirit of the thread topic, I'll note the following for my own car shopping:
  • Value Shoppers should consider a non CPO, pre-owned F30 with low mileage, and conduct a thorough test drive & in-person evaluation plus an inspection by an independent mechanic before finalizing the car purchase.
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  #93  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:29 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Originally Posted by Pappy Pipes View Post
CPO prices being equivalent to MSRP is an apt analogy. CPOs are horrendously overpriced and usually have much higher mileage than equivalently optioned, lower priced, identical models. If I were buying used I'd get the lowest milage car for my money and have an independent mechanic do the diagnostics.

Buying a car -- especially a used one -- is alway fraught with potential problems. CPOs don't protect you from that. My hunch is CPOs were invented by a bunch of drunk used car salesmen at a Las Vegas convention to sell used cars to buyers who are wary of them.
CPOs include the warranty to 100K so you have to pay for that whether or not you like it. So naturally they will feel a little overpriced, but that's because you're paying for the pricey warranty as well.
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  #94  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:38 PM
Pappy Pipes Pappy Pipes is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
CPOs include the warranty to 100K so you have to pay for that whether or not you like it. So naturally they will feel a little overpriced, but that's because you're paying for the pricey warranty as well.
True, and the warranty does provides 2 year piece of mind. But that doesn't always translate to reality. If the car has "issues" two years later you're $ out of luck! If it didn't have issues your warranty runs out and you own a 6+ year old second hand car.

@ gkr > my pleasure
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  #95  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:39 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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But not that overpriced. I've been out hunting for a 2010 535i and the prices dealers are asking simply make no sense -- $36k for a car that will be worth at most $20k in three years when the warranty is exhausted?

And btw, the dealers have a complete lock on that market. There are virtually no private party cars of that year and model within 200 miles. So it's either put up or get something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
CPOs include the warranty to 100K so you have to pay for that whether or not you like it. So naturally they will feel a little overpriced, but that's because you're paying for the pricey warranty as well.
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  #96  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:43 PM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
But not that overpriced. I've been out hunting for a 2010 535i and the prices dealers are asking simply make no sense -- $36k for a car that will be worth at most $20k in three years when the warranty is exhausted?

And btw, the dealers have a complete lock on that market. There are virtually no private party cars of that year and model within 200 miles. So it's either put up or get something else.
Too bad we don't live closer. I have what you want, but I'm trading in. Mine is xdrive though, which you probably don't need in LA.
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  #97  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:47 PM
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But not that overpriced. I've been out hunting for a 2010 535i and the prices dealers are asking simply make no sense -- $36k for a car that will be worth at most $20k in three years when the warranty is exhausted?

And btw, the dealers have a complete lock on that market. There are virtually no private party cars of that year and model within 200 miles. So it's either put up or get something else.
The warranty to 100K costs ~3K or so. Whichever way you dice it, these cars are expensive to own. 16K over 3 years for a 535i is not that bad...that puts it at < 6K per year of ownership. That is perfectly in the ballpark for what it costs to own these cars.

Does it come with the extended maintenance as well? If not, I think a potential owner should definitely try and add that as well, given the unknowns for what the car has been through.
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  #98  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:54 PM
Pappy Pipes Pappy Pipes is offline
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@ Robert A> That model is hard to come by for some reason, even in L.A..
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  #99  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:59 PM
Robert A Robert A is offline
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6K/year? How about $600/month?

Figure $36k to buy = $40k with sales tax. Amortize that figure down to $20k at 2.9% interest, and you come in >$600 month. That's for a used car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
The warranty to 100K costs ~3K or so. Whichever way you dice it, these cars are expensive to own. 16K over 3 years for a 535i is not that bad...that puts it at < 6K per year of ownership. That is perfectly in the ballpark for what it costs to own these cars.

Does it come with the extended maintenance as well? If not, I think a potential owner should definitely try and add that as well, given the unknowns for what the car has been through.
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  #100  
Old 04-01-2013, 08:19 PM
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Chris90 Chris90 is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
But not that overpriced. I've been out hunting for a 2010 535i and the prices dealers are asking simply make no sense -- $36k for a car that will be worth at most $20k in three years when the warranty is exhausted?

And btw, the dealers have a complete lock on that market. There are virtually no private party cars of that year and model within 200 miles. So it's either put up or get something else.
I've seen BMW dealers move $5k on a $36k CPO, keep that in mind. I actually agreed to buy such a ZHP from a dealer but the deal fell through when the previous owner filed a lemon complaint (glad I dodged that bullet).
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