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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 04-23-2013, 12:52 PM
Newman271's Avatar
Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
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Mein Auto: 99' 540i M-Sport
Unhappy M30B35 running issues

So, I did my swap in my e30. Car runs beautiful mid range rpm. Starting out in my rpm under load I have to feather my gas and ride the clutch a little to keep it from bogging down. Mid range rpm it pulls very strong and it even kicks the rear end a little sideways. Near top end it will kinda act like a fuel cut. Also, while driving normal if I floor it (wot) it bogs and cuts out... I have to ease into the rpm.
I have new mustang 4 hole injectors, new fuel filters, new cap and rotor, newer idle air control valve, new O2 sensor, No leaks around intake afm or vacuum that I can tell ( I sprayed carb cleaner all around with no changes in idle.) Car runs rich at idle and driving.
Just playing around with the plugs on the thermostat housing, I unplugged the blue sensor and idle changed, not neccessarily for the better.
Idle surges a little....
I ordered a new engine temp sensor, hoping thats what the problem is.. I had a m20b27 before and its sensor went bad so I replaced it. Can I swap the two sensors for now or are they totally different ranges? Anybody know where to start with all this?
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1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
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  #2  
Old 04-23-2013, 04:11 PM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman271 View Post
So, I did my swap in my e30. Car runs beautiful mid range rpm. Starting out in my rpm under load I have to feather my gas and ride the clutch a little to keep it from bogging down. Mid range rpm it pulls very strong and it even kicks the rear end a little sideways. Near top end it will kinda act like a fuel cut. Also, while driving normal if I floor it (wot) it bogs and cuts out... I have to ease into the rpm.
I have new mustang 4 hole injectors, new fuel filters, new cap and rotor, newer idle air control valve, new O2 sensor, No leaks around intake afm or vacuum that I can tell ( I sprayed carb cleaner all around with no changes in idle.) Car runs rich at idle and driving.
Just playing around with the plugs on the thermostat housing, I unplugged the blue sensor and idle changed, not neccessarily for the better.
Idle surges a little....
I ordered a new engine temp sensor, hoping thats what the problem is.. I had a m20b27 before and its sensor went bad so I replaced it. Can I swap the two sensors for now or are they totally different ranges? Anybody know where to start with all this?
Congrads on the swap.

Hmm. You kind of lost me on the first part saying it would bog out at start of a roll.
So for clarity your saying it's driving ok except at start.
However when you gun it there's a hesitation or feeling your hitting a brick wall?

My my guess (from a distance) considering you changed out:
the dizzy
rotor button
ICV (newer meaning BNIB or newer than what you started with?)
and O2 sensor

I'd start with: (in this order)
FPR
the plugs
plug wires
coil
AFM
I'd even check that ICV one more time. Unplug it and run the car a short distance to see
if there's a difference in driveability.



As for the temp sensors on the thermo housing. I'd double check realoem to see if they would work (m20 sensors on a m30).
Otherwise I'd say keep apples with apples, oranges with oranges.

Hope this helps. Good luck
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Every once in a while the Lion has to show the Jackals who he is...
- Christopher Walken "The Lion Speech"
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:58 AM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Mein Auto: 99' 540i M-Sport
I changed the plugs before I swapped the motor. Im with you on the diagnosis. FPR seems to be what im pointing too. You don't think that becuase of the mustang 4 hole injectors it's getting too much fuel? I've read alot of people run these with no problem. Cause it acts likes its loading up with a ton of fuel. If I floor it, it bogs down like it lost all power till I ease off the pedal then it clears the fuel out and if you ease into the gas it will rev freely again.

I did fix my idle surge.. my vacuum hose from the iacv had a split, so I wrapped it up and clamped it down. But still fuel overload at wot.
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
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  #4  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:31 AM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Mein Auto: 1995 e34 S52b32/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman271 View Post
I changed the plugs before I swapped the motor. Im with you on the diagnosis. FPR seems to be what im pointing too. You don't think that becuase of the mustang 4 hole injectors it's getting too much fuel? I've read alot of people run these with no problem. Cause it acts likes its loading up with a ton of fuel. If I floor it, it bogs down like it lost all power till I ease off the pedal then it clears the fuel out and if you ease into the gas it will rev freely again.

I did fix my idle surge.. my vacuum hose from the iacv had a split, so I wrapped it up and clamped it down. But still fuel overload at wot.
Yeah your conversing with someone who was running bosch design 3 24lb injectors.
They can run you a little rich but you can adjust the a/f ratio via afm.
Though it's not the perfect way to do it. It works.

Anyway yes your flooding it some how.
Question. what cc or # are you running?
As well do you have some type of chip, stand alone or piggy back ecu?

Here's why I ask.
I was running a dinan chip which helped compensate as well as mentioned above I adjusted the afm.
Again I'm not saying that was the 100% resolve but the combo worked for me.
Your TPS should act like a flood clear when.... Wait I think I got it.

Check your wiring for your TPS.
Bare with me I'm going to run through a possiblity. but I'm going to use a megasquirt as a ecu in definition.

Ok. when wiring ms you have to make sure your TPS sensor is wired correctly.
There are 3 wires.

M30B35 TPS:

BRN/ORG = GROUND
BRN/BLK - SIGNAL
BRN/BLU= 5V REFERENCE

M50 TPS (can be used):

BRN/ORG = signal
BRN/BLK - ground
BRN/BLU= 5V REFERENCE

I don't know if a e30 m20 harness is the same or if you swapped the m30 harness as well.
But you'll have to find the wiring diagrams for a m20 harness if that's what your using.

When you mix these up you will not be at flood clear when you are at WOT.
You will be adding fuel thus flooding the car.

If you indeed have swapped the wires around wrong. pull your plugs, check & clean them, reinstall them, use the references I listed then try again.
It should be fine.

If all is well and none of the above is necessary.
Pull the vac hose from the FPR or pull it from the rail and see if it's spitting fuel.
(get a partner to help you with this for you want a quick turn over so you don't spit gas everywhere)
If you have gas going to it. That's not it.

IMO I'd bet the tps or even the O2 sensor for they both would do what your talking about.
__________________

_______________________________________

Every once in a while the Lion has to show the Jackals who he is...
- Christopher Walken "The Lion Speech"
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.

Last edited by MySatinDoll; 04-24-2013 at 07:34 AM.
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  #5  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:42 AM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
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Mein Auto: 99' 540i M-Sport
Cool, I did swap the entire harness so I wouldn't run into a whole lot of problems. I can feel the throttle switch click when I open the throttle up. I'll check the values of it after work.
I'm running stock ecu 079. I wanted to the miller maf conversion, but funds are tight at the moment after the swap. I'll pull the fpr line at lunch today to see if its loading up.. it's raining here in Ohio so it should wash the fuel away quickly if it does spit out the tube.
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
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  #6  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:44 AM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
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Mein Auto: 99' 540i M-Sport
You still got your megasquirt set up for sale?
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:46 AM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Mein Auto: 1995 e34 S52b32/5
IIRC you have to use a 179 ecu from a e34 535/5 to get your values right.

But don't quote me on that. I've not done or have experience with a m30 swapped e30.
My knowledge is e34 m30 /Megasquirt based.

But more I think about it. it sounds like a tps issue. Yes it will click but were talking about the wires not the tps itself.
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Every once in a while the Lion has to show the Jackals who he is...
- Christopher Walken "The Lion Speech"
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:48 AM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Nah I've kept it for my next project.
I just have to find the right the project lol
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_______________________________________

Every once in a while the Lion has to show the Jackals who he is...
- Christopher Walken "The Lion Speech"
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.

Last edited by MySatinDoll; 04-24-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:12 AM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MySatinDoll View Post
Nah I've kept it for my next project.
I just have to find the right the project lol
lol understand. But I was mistaken it is a 179 ecu.
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:15 AM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
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Mein Auto: 99' 540i M-Sport
I'll play with my TPS tonight see if adjusting does any good. Im sure I can find some resistance values for a good working one to see if mine is in spec.
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-27-2013, 03:30 PM
MRF4665 MRF4665 is offline
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Really curious to know the outcome of your issue. It sounds suspiciously similar to the intermittent issue that I've been experiencing for quite some time yet have been unable to resolve. My saga has been documented here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=519952

In a nutshell, my '89 535i is experiencing rough idle and chokes at low rpm (~1500 and lower) and heavy throttle. Back off on the throttle and all is fine. It also sputters at times under heavy acceleration at higher rpm. Midrange is butter.

Mark
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2013, 04:51 PM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF4665 View Post
Really curious to know the outcome of your issue. It sounds suspiciously similar to the intermittent issue that I've been experiencing for quite some time yet have been unable to resolve. My saga has been documented here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=519952

In a nutshell, my '89 535i is experiencing rough idle and chokes at low rpm (~1500 and lower) and heavy throttle. Back off on the throttle and all is fine. It also sputters at times under heavy acceleration at higher rpm. Midrange is butter.

Mark
If your 535i is stock check all of the following in this order:

The common failures:

Distributor
Rotor Button inside distributor
plugs
plug wires
AFM resistor tracks (there's a mod for that don't know the link sorry)
Throttle cable needs adjustment

The not so common failures:

ignition coil
FPR
Fuel filter
Fuel pump
injectors
TPS
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_______________________________________

Every once in a while the Lion has to show the Jackals who he is...
- Christopher Walken "The Lion Speech"
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.
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  #13  
Old 04-28-2013, 12:47 PM
MRF4665 MRF4665 is offline
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Don't mean to hijack the OP's thread but I appreciate the help here.

I've replaced plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, fuel pump, air filter, and fuel filter all to no avail. Given that my issue is intermittent (runs perfectly at times and very poorly at low rpm under acceleration at other times) points to an issue with fuel delivery, and presumably an intermittent connection on a sensor, etc.

I will investigate the AFM to see whether it's working correctly. I've probed TPS (my 535i is manual so the TPS is a simple switch) and it's switching correctly. I've also probed ICV and coil resistances and all are within spec.

The search continues...

Regards,
Mark
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  #14  
Old 04-28-2013, 01:20 PM
allenbee allenbee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF4665 View Post
Don't mean to hijack the OP's thread but I appreciate the help here.

I've replaced plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, fuel pump, air filter, and fuel filter all to no avail. Given that my issue is intermittent (runs perfectly at times and very poorly at low rpm under acceleration at other times) points to an issue with fuel delivery, and presumably an intermittent connection on a sensor, etc.

I will investigate the AFM to see whether it's working correctly. I've probed TPS (my 535i is manual so the TPS is a simple switch) and it's switching correctly. I've also probed ICV and coil resistances and all are within spec.

The search continues...

Regards,
Mark
Do the stomp test and check for error codes. If that doesn't work, or if no relevant code is found, then do the disconnect test. See :

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=16

Although, since your symptoms are only seen while driving, its going to take alot longer than just 10-15 minutes to complete.

You should also check your spark plugs for good measure.

Last edited by allenbee; 04-28-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:28 AM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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So.. I found out most of my problem. Turns out the backfiring, misfire, and stumbles were the cause of the coil. So swapped my e30 coil on and it works beautifuly. Now, on to the wide open throttle problem.. directly the result of faulty Throttle Position Sensor, have one on order from Bosch and will be here by friday.
I'm excited to really see what this motor can do in this little e30. So far, I have not been disappointed.
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777

Last edited by Newman271; 04-29-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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  #16  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:30 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Makes sense. Thanks for updating us.
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  #17  
Old 04-29-2013, 01:29 PM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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excellent. Glad your found the culprits.
__________________

_______________________________________

Every once in a while the Lion has to show the Jackals who he is...
- Christopher Walken "The Lion Speech"
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-29-2013, 02:05 PM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Mein Auto: 99' 540i M-Sport
Thanks for the help! I appreciate it. Once I get this running optimal with my new tps sensor... What you think the first go fast part should be?
Chip?
Headjob w cam?
I was leaning towards doing the Maf conversion first, but what you think?
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-29-2013, 02:47 PM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Location: Next door bring tools and beer.
 
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Mein Auto: 1995 e34 S52b32/5
Maintenance parts for the m30b35.
My first buy would be eccentrics, eccentric bolts and nuts, IE rocker arms, VAC or BMP rocker arm retainers APR studs or metric blues (depending). Then a chip or maf.

Only because I'm going to guess that this build isn't going to be a fuel efficient cruiser.

Depending on where or who you sourced the m30 from I'd want to see if the engine is healthy before kicking out dough for a full head rebuild and machining.

That said I'd do all the maintenance on it before jumping into a performance build.
__________________

_______________________________________

Every once in a while the Lion has to show the Jackals who he is...
- Christopher Walken "The Lion Speech"
95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:40 AM
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Newman271 Newman271 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Mein Auto: 99' 540i M-Sport
I had the head pressure checked and cleaned before I put it on.. I just used OEM for the head bolts, and felpro headgasket. I wanted to skim the head and put a slightly smaller head gasket on but heard these long motors are bad for blowing aftermarket headgaskets. I checked compression across the board and I was within 5-10 psi difference across all the cylinders. I feel pretty confident about this motor.
I have a nitrous set up sitting in my garage from my awd talon... If I could figure out how to get more fuel to the system when I press the button I'd put it on. But mostly just a day dream at the moment. It would be a blast to put a 50-75 shot into the intake, just don't want to lean it out with NO2 and melt or break anything.
__________________
1999 540i M-Sport
Silver/Black
Still fresh and Minty

1985 335i
Black on Black coupe 5spd
R.I.P

1979 Trans Am 10th Anniversary
#16 of 5,683 made

KOI Import Parts-- 513-771-7777
Reply With Quote
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