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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #1  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:24 AM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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4x4 DSC light ON (not the Terrible Triad)

I guess at almost 130,000 miles it was time that something went wrong

Yesterday, out of the blue, in the first start of the morning, the DSC (4x4) stayed ON. The car drives completely normal, no click sounds and no other lights. Tried the "lock-to-lock" trick with the steering wheel, to rule out the steering angle sensor but nothing happened.

What do you guys think, could it be just another sensor? I've been thinking on taking the actuator out just to check and rotate the gear, it can't hurt. (even the actuator throws the terrible triad) But I've read here in some cases DSC light only was fixed with the gear rotation trick.

Other than that, I guess it would have to be diagnosed right? Any other ideas??
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:27 AM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3-terrestrial View Post
Other than that, I guess it would have to be diagnosed right? Any other ideas??
Has it definitely stayed on for subsequent re-starts?

I had the same a few weeks ago, again out of the blue, just the 4X4 light and no other symptoms.

Got where I was headed, parked for 15 mins., and the light went out immediately after re-starting.

I put it down to a transient voltage spike.
Maybe the battery at fault, maybe not. But I put the battery tender on later to make sure it was fully charged.
No further problems.

I sort of expect that sort of thing (meaningless alarms) once every few years.

If it is more than one light, and the car goes into protect mode, then I get more concerned.
But even then, the one time that happened it recovered without a problem.

Hope yours does too.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2013, 11:01 AM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
Has it definitely stayed on for subsequent re-starts?

I had the same a few weeks ago, again out of the blue, just the 4X4 light and no other symptoms.

Got where I was headed, parked for 15 mins., and the light went out immediately after re-starting.

I put it down to a transient voltage spike.
Maybe the battery at fault, maybe not. But I put the battery tender on later to make sure it was fully charged.
No further problems.

I sort of expect that sort of thing (meaningless alarms) once every few years.

If it is more than one light, and the car goes into protect mode, then I get more concerned.
But even then, the one time that happened it recovered without a problem.

Hope yours does too.
Thanks Supercourse, me too. It's been ON since yesterday morning, and it has been re-started maybe about 4-6 times and it still ON today.

Battery is new as of last year (Original BMW) and feels strong.

I'll check the actuator gear this weekend and rotate it if needed, if the light still present I guess I'll have to take it to my Indy.
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  #4  
Old 04-24-2013, 12:18 PM
ghpup ghpup is offline
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X - while it has been started and stopped several times over the last couple of days it still could be your battery level. I was driving daily a year after purchasing the vehicle, but only in short drives and periodically got these two amber warning lights. Unfortunately, my typical round trips were roughly 5-7 miles per day and did not sufficiently re-charge the battery to keep it from throwing the warnings for a prolonged period. On those occassions I drove for 20-30 minutes the lights would go off for a while, only to return after a month or so of short drives. I now regularly place the vehicle on a tender to keep the batter at peak charge. With this practice, I have not had those two amber lights for more than three years with the original battery.
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Last edited by ghpup; 04-24-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:57 AM
StickyDonkey StickyDonkey is offline
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I originally had the triad of lights, my local mechanic had a go at the actuator, but didnt know about the 180 degree rotation thing. After getting the car back from him, I only had the 4x4 light on permanently. Had it diagnosed with a GT1 scanner, which is what BMW use and it appeared to be the sensor on the actuator as the computer could not communicate with the actuator. So i replaced that as well as rotated the cog 180 degrees. No lights since then. At LEAST just do the actuator 180 degree rotation, as if you can do that yourself, its FREE. Then start on the scans and replacing parts.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2013, 01:59 PM
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Yes! Will rotate the gear this weekend!
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  #7  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:34 PM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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4x4 DSC light ON (not the Terrible Triad)

Well I took off the actuator tonight to inspect it. Had a good fight with one of the upper bolts since its really tight up there but finally got it out.
Took it apart and to my surprise, the gear (and worm screw) and all the internals for that matter were intact! Yes,130,000 miles and against all odds the gear still like new. So put it back together and re installed.
As good as it sounds, I still have the problem so I'll have to take it in so they can read the codes.

Here are a couple of pictures of the actuator, you can even see how clean it looked inside. It still can be the motor the culprit but don't want to get a new actuator before a proper diagnosis.

Click image for larger version

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Size:	224.3 KB
ID:	373951
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Name:	ImageUploadedByBimmerApp1367296474.522202.jpg
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Size:	185.3 KB
ID:	373952


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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
-Mario Andretti.

___________________
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2005 X3 3.0i ZPP, Htd seats, Htd strng, Black Sapphire on Terracotta.
1995 ///M3 Coupe, Lux, MT, Htd seats, Cosmos Black on Black.
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  #8  
Old 05-01-2013, 08:03 AM
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mlukas161 mlukas161 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3-terrestrial View Post
Well I took off the actuator tonight to inspect it. Had a good fight with one of the upper bolts since its really tight up there but finally got it out.
Took it apart and to my surprise, the gear (and worm screw) and all the internals for that matter were intact! Yes,130,000 miles and against all odds the gear still like new. So put it back together and re installed.
As good as it sounds, I still have the problem so I'll have to take it in so they can read the codes.

Here are a couple of pictures of the actuator, you can even see how clean it looked inside. It still can be the motor the culprit but don't want to get a new actuator before a proper diagnosis.

Attachment 373951
Attachment 373952


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Wow, I'm impressed at how perfect that actuator looks. Good luck and keep us posted.
I'm just guessing, but could it be related to a wheel speed sensor?
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  #9  
Old 05-01-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mlukas161 View Post
I'm just guessing, but could it be related to a wheel speed sensor?
Yes! that's the reason I don't want to jump the gun and get the $600 part. There are multiple sensors that work together, with xDrive and DSC, (steering angle, yaw, speed sensor, etc) so I am taking it to my Indy tomorrow so they can read the code. Actuator could be fine...
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1995 ///M3 Coupe, Lux, MT, Htd seats, Cosmos Black on Black.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2013, 06:25 AM
ExFree ExFree is offline
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I have 4x4 warning light on dash. I disconnected battery for half hour then reconnected and turn steering to left and then right full lock. The light stayed on. The mechanic told me the steering angle sensor code displayed. The car drives straight. No pulling to the side. Wheels seem in lign. Steering wheel straight. I wouldn't know there was a problem if the warning light wasn't on. Does anyone know what's involved to repair steering angle sensor code, how much it would cost etc. Also does it need to be repaired? The car drives fine.
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2013, 06:29 AM
ExFree ExFree is offline
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Originally Posted by exfree View Post
i have 4x4 warning light on dash. I disconnected battery for half hour then reconnected and turn steering to left and then right full lock. The light stayed on. The mechanic told me the steering angle sensor code displayed. The car drives straight. No pulling to the side. Wheels seem in lign. Steering wheel straight. I wouldn't know there was a problem if the warning light wasn't on. Does anyone know what's involved to repair steering angle sensor code, how much it would cost etc. Also does it need to be repaired? The car drives fine.
l
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2013, 09:30 AM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3-terrestrial View Post
Yes! that's the reason I don't want to jump the gun and get the $600 part. There are multiple sensors that work together, with xDrive and DSC, (steering angle, yaw, speed sensor, etc) so I am taking it to my Indy tomorrow so they can read the code. Actuator could be fine...
Had the codes read and ended up being the "Yaw" sensor, or Rotation Rate speed sensor. $487 from my dealer with the BMWCCA discount. It's located under the carpeting beneath the driver's seat so I'll be replacing it as soon as it comes in. Hopefully that will take car of the problem.
On the good side, at least got to inspect the internals of the actuator and now I know that is fine!
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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
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2005 X3 3.0i ZPP, Htd seats, Htd strng, Black Sapphire on Terracotta.
1995 ///M3 Coupe, Lux, MT, Htd seats, Cosmos Black on Black.
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2013, 09:31 AM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExFree View Post
I have 4x4 warning light on dash. I disconnected battery for half hour then reconnected and turn steering to left and then right full lock. The light stayed on. The mechanic told me the steering angle sensor code displayed. The car drives straight. No pulling to the side. Wheels seem in lign. Steering wheel straight. I wouldn't know there was a problem if the warning light wasn't on. Does anyone know what's involved to repair steering angle sensor code, how much it would cost etc. Also does it need to be repaired? The car drives fine.
Exfree, I replied to your thread http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=693807
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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
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1995 ///M3 Coupe, Lux, MT, Htd seats, Cosmos Black on Black.
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2013, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3-terrestrial View Post
Had the codes read and ended up being the "Yaw" sensor, or Rotation Rate speed sensor. $487 from my dealer with the BMWCCA discount. It's located under the carpeting beneath the driver's seat so I'll be replacing it as soon as it comes in. Hopefully that will take car of the problem.
On the good side, at least got to inspect the internals of the actuator and now I know that is fine!
Ok, nothing is so easy on these cars....I pulled the driver and rear seats and the carpet and couldn't see the sensor. There is conflicting/not specific\not enough information in the interwebz about this yaw sensor, and all info I found on other models it always points to the same location (under the carpet, underneath the driver's seat.

I found a very good source for instructions on all models (very general instructions, similar to the TIS), and for the 2005 X3, there is no section to replace the sensor. For the LCI models on the other hand, (2007+) it says that is under the center storage compartment! Go figure.
So after wasting 2 hours today for nothing, tomorrow will try my luck and take the center console apart and see what I find....wish me luck.

Here is the link for the E83 LCI models yaw sensor location: http://bmw.workshop-manuals.com/X_Se...ex.php?id=1248
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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
-Mario Andretti.

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2005 X3 3.0i ZPP, Htd seats, Htd strng, Black Sapphire on Terracotta.
1995 ///M3 Coupe, Lux, MT, Htd seats, Cosmos Black on Black.

Last edited by X3-terrestrial; 05-08-2013 at 06:36 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:47 PM
NYC Jay NYC Jay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExFree View Post
I have 4x4 warning light on dash. I disconnected battery for half hour then reconnected and turn steering to left and then right full lock. The light stayed on. The mechanic told me the steering angle sensor code displayed. The car drives straight. No pulling to the side. Wheels seem in lign. Steering wheel straight. I wouldn't know there was a problem if the warning light wasn't on. Does anyone know what's involved to repair steering angle sensor code, how much it would cost etc. Also does it need to be repaired? The car drives fine.

Hello exfree and everyone else reading this. I am having this issue with 4x4 also. Quite a few times now, 4X4 warning light came on the dash and remained on for the duration of my driving but disappeared at next engine start.

Yesterday I drove about 4 miles when I heard a beeping sound and noticed abs, brakes, and 4x4, all lit up on the dash. ABS and brakes warning sign are a new development for my vehicle. So to be safe, I pulled over, turned off the engine, waited a minute, started the engine and moved on with driving, normally, as all signs but 4x4 disappeared.
At this point of starting the engine, I noticed that my trip meter reset to zero and the clock display went flat like this: --:--. When I drove back home a few hours later, 4x4 warning sign was gone. I tested the 4x4 function with the DSC button and it responded plus I was able to set time as well. The MPG meter, on my observation, was acting weird though. When I drove, it rose and kept going down as I stopped at traffic signals. This is new too. MPG supposed to fluctuate but not drastically. at one point in went down to as low as 6.8.

I might be due for new break pads as the ones installed are 2 and a half years old to me plus what ever time the previous owner had. I drove about 9k miles so far and the vehicle is just past 96k miles mark. Wonder if the worn out brake pads has something to do with abs and brakes sign. I am new to cars, so it might sound silly at some point explaining my thought.

As far as the 4x4 sign in concerned or any signs on the dash for that matter, unless the warning sign remains lit, my 68 year old indy specialized in BMW and Mercedes advises to keep driving as long as the vehicle maneuvers normally. Unless there is a warning sign, there will be no code, I think it makes sense, but please do tell if it is otherwise.

At this so called 90k miles interval, car needs a lot of maintenance and I think I speak from experience.
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2013, 06:34 AM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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Originally Posted by X3-terrestrial View Post
Ok, nothing is so easy on these cars....]
Success! Took the cup holder and the center bin off and there is was, the sensor! It's a little tight in there but with a 1/4 rachet, couple of extensions and Universal joint, managed to do it in under 30 minutes, start to finish.
Light went off as soon as I started the car!, I just have to take it back to my Indy to clear the fault tomorrow.

Now a breakdown of how much I would have paid if taken to a Dealership:

-Diagnosis $140.00
-Yaw sensor $717.00
-Labor $210.00
-Tax $ 98.79
-Total $1,165.70 (non-member cost)
BMWCCA discount $-245.00 (aprox)
Club member cost $ 920.00

What I paid:

-Indy Diagnosis $0.00
-Labor $0.00
-Yaw sensor $487.75 (With BMWCCA discount)
-Tax $ 45.11
-Total $532.86

I love to save money.

Besides starter motor and two rear window driving dogs jobs, my out of pocket on repairs (not maintenance) on the X3 for the last 4 1/2 years of ownership has been $1140.00, that is an average of $253.00 a year! Not bad for a 8-year, 130,000 miles car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC Jay View Post
Hello exfree and everyone else reading this. I am having this issue with 4x4 also. Quite a few times now, 4X4 warning light came on the dash and remained on for the duration of my driving but disappeared at next engine start.
Jay,
Please read the thread below about the terrible triad of lights. Even though how you describe your issue and since you didn't mention a clicking sound from underneath the car every time you turn it off, I would recommend to check your battery first. These cars are known for weird behavior when the voltage is not adequate.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=566880
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2005 X3 3.0i ZPP, Htd seats, Htd strng, Black Sapphire on Terracotta.
1995 ///M3 Coupe, Lux, MT, Htd seats, Cosmos Black on Black.
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2013, 07:00 AM
Grabby544 Grabby544 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3-terrestrial View Post
Ok, nothing is so easy on these cars....I pulled the driver and rear seats and the carpet and couldn't see the sensor. There is conflicting/not specific\not enough information in the interwebz about this yaw sensor, and all info I found on other models it always points to the same location (under the carpet, underneath the driver's seat.

I found a very good source for instructions on all models (very general instructions, similar to the TIS), and for the 2005 X3, there is no section to replace the sensor. For the LCI models on the other hand, (2007+) it says that is under the center storage compartment! Go figure.
So after wasting 2 hours today for nothing, tomorrow will try my luck and take the center console apart and see what I find....wish me luck.

Here is the link for the E83 LCI models yaw sensor location: http://bmw.workshop-manuals.com/X_Se...ex.php?id=1248
Thank you for posting th link!!
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  #18  
Old 05-09-2013, 06:05 AM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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Originally Posted by Grabby544 View Post
Thank you for posting th link!!
You bet!
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1995 ///M3 Coupe, Lux, MT, Htd seats, Cosmos Black on Black.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2013, 05:00 PM
NYC Jay NYC Jay is offline
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Re: 4x4 DSC light ON (not the Terrible Triad)

Hello exfree. I think my problem with 4x4 has to do with the battery. Terminals and connections on the battery seemed ok as i checked on it. I drove my truck for about 10 days now since the terrible triad and did not have the 4x4 issue repeated. Seems like the battery needed to charge more. I have to wait for that mpg issue. Just got a tune up, oil change and vcg replaced yesterday at my indy shop. That original vcg went bad at 96k miles. Again, thank you for your suggestions.
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2014, 10:14 PM
harvester harvester is offline
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I'm a new member & 2008 x3 owner. Indicator lights that just started coming on: ABS, Break & Air bag (red) plus the 4x4 in yellow.
Owner's Manual says this means it's unable to send power to the front wheels. Advise?


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  #21  
Old 05-01-2014, 04:16 AM
PSUEng PSUEng is offline
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Originally Posted by harvester View Post
I'm a new member & 2008 x3 owner. Indicator lights that just started coming on: ABS, Break & Air bag (red) plus the 4x4 in yellow.
Owner's Manual says this means it's unable to send power to the front wheels. Advise?


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Steering angle sensor and/or transfer case actuator. Have a shop scan the car, and be ready to pay if you don't have warranty.
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  #22  
Old 05-03-2014, 01:39 PM
harvester harvester is offline
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Thanks. Set up with a mechanic I trust but found our only a dealer can program the new parts. Can't save a buck on the job.


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