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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:25 PM
Hockeypuck Hockeypuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I think over time people will get used to the look of the new IS350 F sport, if not, Toyota apparently has a plan to speed up that process. Once people see this new 2014 4Runner all over the places, the IS350 F sport will look very modest in comparison:



Now notice I have not injected my personal opinion of the new styles, whether I like them or not is irrelevant. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I think Nissan and Honda are anxiously awaiting that vehicle. Will make selling a Pathfinder or Pilot a piece of cake.
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  #77  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:30 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hockeypuck View Post
I think Nissan and Honda are anxiously awaiting that vehicle. Will make selling a Pathfinder or Pilot a piece of cake.
Nice to see another weston user. whcc here.
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  #78  
Old 04-29-2013, 07:46 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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You sure that is not Optimus Prime from Micheal Bay's 10th Transformers sequel?
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  #79  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:27 PM
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JT///M3 JT///M3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
You sure that is not Optimus Prime from Micheal Bay's 10th Transformers sequel?
That was my exact thoughts. Looks like a transformer! And like SH!T too!
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  #80  
Old 04-29-2013, 08:33 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by suneil View Post
I will annihilate any PPK E90 335i on the track. Yes I'm that confident that C&D is THAT full of ****...weight wise alone, favors the F30.
I think that would be extremely dependent on who is driving the E90 335i.

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  #81  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypuck View Post
I think Nissan and Honda are anxiously awaiting that vehicle. Will make selling a Pathfinder or Pilot a piece of cake.
Eh? Toyota has at least 3 other vehicles in that price range, all waiting to compete with the 4runner - which, in itself, is about to become a CAFE liability.

Small wonder they want it dead.
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  #82  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:27 PM
unit unit is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I know they said it, and it's a bit silly as it's a bold statement to make considering they did not have an E90 there in the test, they had an ATS.

It's going around and around, this thread is about the 335 F30 vs ATS 3.6 vs the Is350. I am fine with the F30 losing, the scoring is suspect a bit. At the same time, it leaves the opportunity for some to chime in and make it out that the benchmark of years ago, the E90 would waltz right in and slay NEW '13 competition, and I am sorry, but that is fantasy. The E90 would have been knocked for something else instead.
Road and Track (May 2013) seems to feel the same way as Car and Driver:

"But there's a bigger point here. The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving. The 3-series, which used to make so much more sense than the 1, is now a perfectly nice car that barely registers on the fun-to-drive scale. Like most new German cars, it focuses too much on electronics and the eventuality of a driverless future. It errs toward isolation where BMWs have traditionally favored refinement and engagement. It offers more in the way of electronic cockpit gadgets than feedback. Even the 135is's replacement, the European-market M135i, has the nerve to wear an M badge but with zero additional M chops. It's the next generation of the car you see here, in hatchback form, with a version of the F30's numb electric steering and no limited-slip differential. Worse, like the current M5, its cockpit is so isolated and quiet that you can't really hear the engine."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...?click=main_sr

After driving the F10 and F30, I feel like they have lost the BMW magic that used to make their cars so great. They might be nice luxury cars, but I just can't seem to get excited about the driving properties of any of the F models.
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  #83  
Old 04-30-2013, 05:20 AM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Originally Posted by unit View Post
Road and Track (May 2013) seems to feel the same way as Car and Driver:

"But there's a bigger point here. The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving."
Ironically, the same can be said of Road & Track's April 2013 edition. It was the last edition before the magazine fell out of love with driving.
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  #84  
Old 04-30-2013, 12:36 PM
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You gotta love the excuses and people bashing C & D. Nobody had a problem with C & D reviewes when the pervious generations of the 3 series were often NOT the fastest but still came in the first place. Perfect example: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests. The 330i here was behind the IS350 in acceleration but still won. I bet nobody had a problem with C & D then
The Lexus had the same engine in 2006 as the new 2014.

And this is why the BMW won back then:

Quote:
And yet the IS350 doesn't become an extension of your legs and forearms, as the BMW or even the G35 does. Editors wrote of a twitchy, overly zealous response to steering inputs by an overdamped suspension that was annoyingly busy on the freeway. Scrub data through the electrically assisted steering rack get muted, and the weighting seems typically Lexus light and artificial. Meanwhile, the tires lack the bite to control understeer, contributing to a last-place lane-change speed.
I'm all for criticizing BMW, but no way in hell I believe that the IS350 is more fun.
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  #85  
Old 04-30-2013, 01:15 PM
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The general trend is that BMW is losing it. I like BMWs and have been a BMWCCA member for 6 years, but the trend is worrisome. Drinking their coolaid is not worth it.

BMW will probably make more money by appealing to the masses. The ultimate driving machine it is not.
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  #86  
Old 04-30-2013, 01:55 PM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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I think those of us who want pure driving experience will eventually have to migrate to M. Porsche is fine, but I need a daily driver, and the Panamera is too expensive for me.
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  #87  
Old 04-30-2013, 02:15 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The Lexus had the same engine in 2006 as the new 2014.

And this is why the BMW won back then:



I'm all for criticizing BMW, but no way in hell I believe that the IS350 is more fun.
Nothing wrong with that engine. The 2013 MY 335 makes less power than it did in 2007. The article proves my point. Back then the 3 was more fun to drive but slower. I bet nobody complained. Now the Lexus is more fun but slower and people get upset.
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  #88  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
If you look at the points individually BMW wins. The only reason it "loses" is because of the completely subjective "fun to drive" category where they give the Lexus just enough points to overtake BMW. That is a category that is completely subjective as everyones definition is different. Comparing Ergonomics, fit and finish and performance can be quantified. They keep that final category so they can sway the vote the way they want.

At the end of the day it makes great points about all three cars but you need to actually review the individual category results to get a more quantifiable answer.
Absolutely, and I for one don't see how driving around in that ugly Lexus could be any fun...
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  #89  
Old 04-30-2013, 11:36 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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The new IS350 F Sport has to be substantially more fun to drive than the F30 335i for me to accept the C&D report. I am not holding my breath it will happen, but then I am reminded my test drive of the ATS 3.6L, when it turned out noticeably more fun to drive than the F30, all other factors quickly became insignificant.
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  #90  
Old 05-01-2013, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The new IS350 F Sport has to be substantially more fun to drive than the F30 335i for me to accept the C&D report.
Highly doubtful.

Autoguide's review, says the 335 is more athletic and more fun, but they liked it a lot.

http://www.autoguide.com/manufacture...ideo-2502.html

Quote:
Sitting in a side-by-side-by-side comparison with a Mercedes C350 sedan, the rear-wheel drive IS 350 F Sport and a BMW 335i, the IS slots squarely in the middle.

Lexus outpaced the rather un-dynamic C-Class around the track with ease. Cornering is firm and steering stiff, although it isn't rambunctious like the 3 Series.

It doesn't compete with cars like the BMW 335i from a performance perspective, but the Lexus is still plenty fun to drive, has some dramatic road presence and is significantly more luxurious.

LOVE IT

F Sport package looks incredible
G force Artificial Intelligence works well
Eight-speed transmission from IS F available
LFA inspired gauges too cool

LEAVE IT

Same old engines
Less athletic than a 3 Series
No cooled seats on F Sport
No stick shift
The last IS-F was pretty impressive, make a new one with a manual, and well, I won't buy it, but at least I'd want one.
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  #91  
Old 05-01-2013, 05:00 AM
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Even Car and Driver when they first drove it (and didn't have an agenda of sending a message to BMW), said it was not as fun as the previous gen. Ouch.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...e-drive-review

Quote:
Driven back-to-back with the current IS, the 2014 proved to be the more stable of the two. It's likely that overall grip has increased, but some of the IS's playfulness and character have been sacrificed to the holy trinity of NVH. It's a small difference and one that likely can be chalked up to the heavier GS-based architecture-the IS is up to 176 pounds heavier.
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  #92  
Old 05-01-2013, 09:15 AM
martyl martyl is offline
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It was just a few months ago that C&D raved about the 335i as part of their Lightning Lap. Go figure. I remember the test driver saying it was everything you could hope for in a sports sedan. So much of this depends on individual preferences. The recent edition of Bimmer has an article on the 328 sport. Mike Miller likes it better than the E90 but another writer had a very negative review of the car excepting that it didn't have the "masochistic" ride of the E90. People have different expectations and experiences when it comes to driving cars. Hard to take these reviews as objective truth.

Last edited by martyl; 05-01-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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  #93  
Old 05-01-2013, 09:34 AM
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JT///M3 JT///M3 is offline
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And this is why car manufactures are holding a lot of those driving comparison events. You gotta just find out for yourself.
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  #94  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:31 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by JT///M3 View Post
And this is why car manufactures are holding a lot of those driving comparison events. You gotta just find out for yourself.
The problem is, those same manufactures also try to feed the notion that the best 0-60 time, or the highest HP, wins. They risk having people come to the driving events, realizing the best 0-60 time hardly means anything, when you are restricted by speed limits.
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  #95  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:37 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The problem is, those same manufactures also try to feed the notion that the best 0-60 time, or the highest HP, wins. They risk having people come to the driving events, realizing the best 0-60 time hardly means anything, when you are restricted by speed limits.
Look at the thread title lol. There is a 335 owner very excited to see how fast his car is in a magazine from 0-60. As long as he is happy, right?
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  #96  
Old 05-01-2013, 04:08 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Look at the thread title lol. There is a 335 owner very excited to see how fast his car is in a magazine from 0-60. As long as he is happy, right?
I think it might be more complicated than that.

Could be that the OP wasn't happy they rated the new IS350 F at the top, and the new and fast 335i 0-60 time offered some consolation. Several others sought diffrent aspects for consolation. For example, at least the 335i wins the beauty contest because the top rated car is just butt ugly.
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  #97  
Old 05-01-2013, 05:02 PM
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Let's see what the m3 brings to the table.

It's a sad day when the 2-ton Audi S4 offers a significantly superior driving experience than the 400 pound less RWD 335i.
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  #98  
Old 05-01-2013, 05:10 PM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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As a relatively recent (2010) BMW convert who has thoroughly enjoyed his 2011 MY editions of a 335IS convertible and a standard setup X5, I am saddened by what they have done with the F30. The oldest BMW I've ever driven is a 2007 E90, which means I missed out on all that good stuff that people rave about, and there seems to be very little chance that sort of thing will ever return.

I recently had an F30 Luxury as a loaner. Ordinarily, I love driving loaner cars even if they are lower-end (a Mazda 5 mini-mini-van comes to mind - shockingly fun for what it was), as it means trying something new for a short while and putting miles on not my car. But after a few days of this F30, I was calling my SA and bugging him to give me my car back!

The steering is not just numb, there's something else about it that feels fake to the point of distraction. Body roll is, well, very un-BMW like ( I also had a Sport F30 as a loaner, ok but not great). Suspension feels unconfident, as do the brakes (which I suspect the tires contribute to, as I think CD alluded to).

I see BMW and Lexus like two lines on the fun-to-drive graph, one rising, one falling, and depending on who you ask, the lines have converged or are about to. What direction they will take now, who knows. I don't like Lexus (actually its Toyota I despise) but find myself considering the IS as my next car, 2 or 3 years in the future.

I hope the upcoming G37 replacement kicks both their butts. The first-year G35 I owned for 9 years was a sweet ride but then they too lost the plot.
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  #99  
Old 05-01-2013, 07:47 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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I hope the upcoming G37 replacement kicks both their butts. The first-year G35 I owned for 9 years was a sweet ride but then they too lost the plot.
I won't hold my breath. By all indications so far, the Q50 follows the same go big and go soft trend.
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  #100  
Old 05-01-2013, 07:52 PM
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Looks like the C/D 335 test car may be the same one Autoweek had for their recent review:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...IEWS/130429820

Ignore the photos accompanying the article as they are clearly not the car tested. The MSRPs of the C/D test car and the Autoweek test car are the same and the C/D photos seem to agree with the options that Autoweek lists at the end of their piece. Looking at that options list, I can't help but conclude that this particular test car is lightly and bizarrely optioned (auto high beams but zero other tech options?) and is missing DHP, which everyone here seems to agree makes the car.

Not trying to be a BMW apologist or make excuses, just noting that this particular test car doesn't represent the best of what the F30 can be.

My F30 335 M Sport order went in a few weeks ago, to replace my '11 335d which I absolutely love. Every time I get in the d I wonder if getting rid of it is the right move (2 years on and the torque is still intoxicating), but the F30 is just that much bigger than the E90 to make it a more practical car, especially in the backseat with my daughter's car seat.
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Last edited by diesel3; 05-01-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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