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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #76  
Old 05-03-2013, 08:42 PM
chansta chansta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Consensus seems to be: Plan on it at or about 60k mi.

But, is the problem PCV blowby alone? In that case, DANGER! ILLEGAL! disconnecting the PCV system from the intake should solve the issue.

That's done by virtually nobody on public roads. Also, I'm astonished that nobody's come up with a way to allow PCV and fully filter/wash air coming through.

You automotive lubricant chemists - what's so hard?

Come to think of it, I know where we might get a well qualified answer - I'll post next week if it develops.
crank case ventilation has nothing to do with this issue. thing with direct injection is, there is no fuel to clean up the intake valve which results in carbon build up. carbon tends to absorb/release fuel which results in misfiring especially in cold start conditions.
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  #77  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chansta View Post
crank case ventilation has nothing to do with this issue. thing with direct injection is, there is no fuel to clean up the intake valve which results in carbon build up. carbon tends to absorb/release fuel which results in misfiring especially in cold start conditions.
However, without the PCV recirc, it's difficult to envision a source of carbon for the buildup.
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  #78  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:36 AM
kmorgan_260 kmorgan_260 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinman View Post
GM and Ford don't have the carbon build up problems that plague BMW DI engines. Here's why, "Haider, GM's V6 assistant chief engineer, explained how GM has designed its DI engines to combat carbon buildup: "We maintain great engine function and performance in our all our DI engines through an optimization strategy with our valve events," he said. "Our intake-cam timing, injector targeting and timing of the injection events are optimized to avoid direct fuel contact on the intake valves. This strategy keeps smoke and soot formation to an absolute minimum, which in turn prevents excessive deposit formation." BMW's N54 engine wasn't ready for prime time. Mike Miler the tech guru at the BMW Car Club says the N54 was a beta test of technologies. Eventually BMW will get this right. For all of us who bought N54 engines, it's going to be one problem after another as the production cars get older. My wife's minivan is 9 years old and has 120,000 miles and the tail pipe doesn't have a trace of soot. My BMW 2008 335 with 35k miles has dual exhaust tips covered in soot, some of which gets deposited on the intake ports and valves. The N54 is a dog. But BMW won't admit it made any mistakes. They never stand behind their engineering when the warranty runs out.
What about the N55? Did BMW fix the problem on it?

Consequently my N54 is at 98K and still pulls like a train although I have started to notice an occasional rough idle. Guess I will move the walnut blast higher up the to-do list.
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  #79  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:02 AM
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I had this done at about 70K when the dealer had the car for wastegate and other warranty work. It pulls much stronger at low RPM's and got rid of terrible stumbling in 5th and 6th when accelerating hard on the interstate though I think this was more an issue of maladjusted wastegates. Not sure what I'll replace the N54 with - not sure BMW has the reliability thing down yet.
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  #80  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
Looking at these posts reminds me I'm glad the N54 is gone.
The N55 isn't much better... I have an oil catch can on ours, and it's amazing how much it collects even with our low mileage.
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  #81  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:58 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chansta View Post
crank case ventilation has nothing to do with this issue. thing with direct injection is, there is no fuel to clean up the intake valve which results in carbon build up. carbon tends to absorb/release fuel which results in misfiring especially in cold start conditions.
It is the issue. Vapors and small ammt's o'liquid phase create the buildup.

If disabled, prob disappears.
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  #82  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verts4Ever View Post

The N55 isn't much better... I have an oil catch can on ours, and it's amazing how much it collects even with our low mileage.

But here's the rub: How much of that is condensation?
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  #83  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:58 PM
chansta chansta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
It is the issue. Vapors and small ammt's o'liquid phase create the buildup.

If disabled, prob disappears.
It won't disappear. Valve overlap is the main contributor

Let me correct myself. Im not saying crank case ventilation isn't a source I was just stating that fuel not being there to clean up the valve is the reason why
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Last edited by chansta; 05-04-2013 at 09:03 PM.
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  #84  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:00 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chansta View Post
It won't disappear. Valve overlap is the main contributor

Let me correct myself. Im not saying crank case ventilation isn't a source I was just stating that fuel not being there to clean up the valve is the reason why

Backpedalin' fast!


May be right re: BMW - some chatter about GM having solved that issue.



Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 05-04-2013 at 10:04 PM.
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  #85  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:09 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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Nice thing about....smart use....of valve overlap is that it can help make for better power. It's all a balancing act, I guess.

The big takeaway for me: I should invest in getting the remainder of the equipment to do a home-brew valve cleaning. The big PITA for me is the means to precisely turn the engine as needed.
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Last edited by galahad05; 05-04-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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  #86  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:25 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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Okay, I've had my new oil catch can on my car for about 500 miles now.
I had to go back in and tighten the bracket holding it in place, so since I was already there....I took a look to see what it caught.

Nothing.

Literally no visible residue.
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  #87  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:34 PM
Leekay07 Leekay07 is offline
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The oil that we get on the valves is a vapour. Not a liquid heavy enought to drop off over a small void.
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  #88  
Old 05-20-2013, 11:08 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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The can has been shown to condense and capture at least some of the oil returning via the PCV system--I've seen users' pictures.
It's just that I haven't seen any in mine yet.
BMW has a cyclonic oil condensate separator system that, at least to my eyes, seems to be doing a pretty good job, based on what I'm seeing on my car.

I'm supposed to check and dispose of the oil in the catch can every 1-3 months. Or for my driving: 1k to 3k miles.
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  #89  
Old 01-10-2015, 04:45 PM
Road&MTN_Biker Road&MTN_Biker is offline
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Do you think using 89 vs 91 makes a difference in the carbon build up?
Thanks,

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwoem1 View Post
The sad thing is, those intake valves aren't even that bad... I've seen way worse (I'm a BMW master tech). The N63 engines are just as bad, I'm even starting to see the same issue on the N55's... We've had this problem on all direct injection engines starting with the N73. The buildup is noticeable as early as 20k miles
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  #90  
Old 01-10-2015, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road&MTN_Biker View Post
Do you think using 89 vs 91 makes a difference in the carbon build up?
Thanks,
No, Nothing but 93 Octane Shell in mine, and they were caked up. The DI system doesn't let any gasoline (with associated cleaners) flow over the intake valves, and the PCV recycle cokes on.
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Last edited by Zooks527; 01-15-2015 at 05:23 AM.
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  #91  
Old 01-14-2015, 10:30 PM
slenser slenser is offline
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I'm at 120k and I don't know if it has ever been walnut blasted. Has anyone ever tried Seafoam? Many swear by it in other car communities.
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  #92  
Old 01-15-2015, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slenser View Post
I'm at 120k and I don't know if it has ever been walnut blasted. Has anyone ever tried Seafoam? Many swear by it in other car communities.
There are some videos on YouTube. No one here on the board has admitted trying it that I have seen.
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Last edited by Zooks527; 01-15-2015 at 05:22 AM.
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  #93  
Old 01-15-2015, 03:57 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
No problem! Yeah same... 6 bottles of techron at 3k intervals didn't do squat.
people need to realize that Techron is to clean the fuel system, keep the injectors clean
not the intake areas
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  #94  
Old 06-10-2015, 05:31 AM
Hookster57 Hookster57 is online now
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So is this problem still occurring on the new (2015) engines or have they fixed the direct injection issue?
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  #95  
Old 06-10-2015, 06:01 AM
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BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Consensus seems to be: Plan on it at or about 60k mi.

But, is the problem PCV blowby alone? In that case, DANGER! ILLEGAL! disconnecting the PCV system from the intake should solve the issue.

That's done by virtually nobody on public roads. Also, I'm astonished that nobody's come up with a way to allow PCV and fully filter/wash air coming through.

You automotive lubricant chemists - what's so hard?

Come to think of it, I know where we might get a well qualified answer - I'll post next week if it develops.
I know you posted this two years ago CAL. Did you ever post the follow up?

Seems to me that an old school breather tapped into the valve cover would (illegally) solve the issue. I agree with you that a system to filter the oil vapors shouldn't be rocket science.
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  #96  
Old 06-10-2015, 06:25 AM
07335 07335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
So, yes, it's clean. How does it drive now? Looking at these posts reminds me I'm glad the N54 is gone. Reminds me of the RS4 nightmares with carbon build up.
Did they solve this with the newer DI engines? I think you need a hybrid DI and traditional FI design.
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  #97  
Old 06-10-2015, 06:51 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
I know you posted this two years ago CAL. Did you ever post the follow up?

Seems to me that an old school breather tapped into the valve cover would (illegally) solve the issue. I agree with you that a system to filter the oil vapors shouldn't be rocket science.
It's beyond rocket science. Cars are among the most technologically complex yet reliable devices on the planet. The computational abilities far exceed the ability of rockets 10 years ago.

If you disconnect the PCV valve, or leave a breather tube out of most modern engines, they will stall at idle or run extremely rough. Such is the delicate balance of internal and external pressures which the computer relies on to minimize emissions and maximize efficiency.There are engines which will run extremely rough if just the oil dipstick tube is not fully seated! I sometimes wonder if that's part of the reason for switching to electronic oil level measuring.

It gets harder and harder all the time to tinker with engines.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 06-10-2015 at 06:55 AM.
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  #98  
Old 06-10-2015, 07:01 AM
wilt wilt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
Seems to me that an old school breather tapped into the valve cover would (illegally) solve the issue.
Breather?! Gawd, BMW vaccuum leaks causing engine-start failures have been known for decades! My girlfriend at the time had an early 80s E30 that would not start one day, she calls me up because she needs to be someone at a certain time. I drive over, try to start the car to try to diagnose if it is fuel delivery or electrical, see the symptoms and pop the hood, press the dipstick firmly into the tube so its rubber plug seals, and try again...it starts, I'm a hero.
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  #99  
Old 06-10-2015, 07:32 AM
Biggiefl Biggiefl is online now
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Was talking to a mechanic friend briefly on Sunday and it is a problem on most DFI cars. He read about using seafoam spray or equiv. closing valves and letting fluid soak on for hours or overnight and then do it again after a hard run to wash it off. I have used seafoam and Berryman's B12 as a concentrate in outboards to remove carbon. I would put a whole can mixed with another can of gas(about a qt total) and stick the gasline in it and run it at high idle or more until it emptied jar but engine still had fuel. Would shut down and let sit overnight and then run it on straight fuel. I have unstuck rings and the crap that came out of my prop exhaust looked like I ingested a large double fudge brownie and passed it through the exhaust. You can do it, just gotta figue out how and at what point is it too late. I just turned 18k on my 08 and am curious.
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  #100  
Old 06-10-2015, 07:44 AM
Hookster57 Hookster57 is online now
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Too late how?
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