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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2013, 08:07 AM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Starting problems when hot.

I have a 2007 X5 (E70) with problems starting when hot (hot engine or hot outside temperature).

When the outside temperature is around 18 degrees the car in general will start fine.
When the outside temperature is around 25 degrees or the engine is already hot from driving earlier in the day, I know I will have problems starting the car.

I do not know if it has any bearing but, to get the car started I insert and remove the key for anywhere between 5 and 15 minutes and eventually the car will start.

My indicator of when the car will start for sure is when the amber battery symbol comes up on the dash.

In some instance when trying to start I get strange warnings up, for example, High Battery Discharge, Fault in Drive, DCS failed, amongst others. (Photos of examples of warnings attached).

However, once the engine is started, I can stop the engine, and immediately start again and the warnings in most instances with go and everything reads as fine.

I will add, that once the engine has started and if it cuts out standing in traffic, which it occasionally does it re-starts straight away without any problem.

I took the car to the BMW dealership who kept the car for 3 days to investigate, only for them to tell me to change the battery, various sensors, relays, more than one management control unit etc. ect. In other words they did not have a clue what was wrong and charged me 1000 QR (200GBP) for the privilege.

If someone could point me in the direction of what the cause of this could possibly be, it would be very much appreciated, and maybe BMW may learn something new about the cars they build.
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2013, 08:59 AM
ard ard is offline
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How old is the battery?

DID you change it when they advised?

These cars do wierd things with low battery voltages....
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2013, 09:03 AM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
How old is the battery?

DID you change it when they advised?

These cars do wierd things with low battery voltages....
I did not change the battery as the dealership suggested, I felt they were clutching at straws when looking at the long list of items that they suggested I change.

I did have the battery tested and it tested ok. The battery does not show any signs of losing power, even after trying to start the car every 15 seconds or so for 15 minutes at a time when it is hot.
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2013, 09:39 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Sand View Post
I did not change the battery as the dealership suggested, I felt they were clutching at straws when looking at the long list of items that they suggested I change.

I did have the battery tested and it tested ok. The battery does not show any signs of losing power, even after trying to start the car every 15 seconds or so for 15 minutes at a time when it is hot.
HOW OLD? Second time asking.

Does the engine crank every "15 seconds for 15 minutes"??? (Which is 225 times, right?)
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2013, 10:40 AM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
HOW OLD? Second time asking.

Does the engine crank every "15 seconds for 15 minutes"??? (Which is 225 times, right?)
The battery is about 2 years old, but it did test ok using a garage battery tester.

I crank the engine for about 5 seconds every 15 seconds or so, over a duration of between 5 and 15 minutes, and at somepoint during this period the car will start.
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2013, 11:41 AM
ard ard is offline
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OK.

I think you have a fuel issue...fuel filter, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator...what happens is the battery gets run down trying to start, and when it finally does, the lowered voltage/charge drips these idiosyncratic errors (DSC, drive, etc).

Consider replacing the fuel filter. Maybe then doing a fuel pressure test (ie attach a pressure guage, monitor fuel pressure as it is not starting...)

A
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2013, 07:24 PM
bkhk bkhk is offline
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I agree with ard (doesn't often happen) but I would change the battery as well for a new one. Once you eliminate that as a potential issue, you can look at other things like fuel etc.
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2013, 08:52 PM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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I shall get the battery changed this week as a first course of action, and see if that does the trick.

If not then I will start the process of elimination with the fuel route as Ard suggests.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2013, 09:18 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Sand View Post

I will add, that once the engine has started and if it cuts out standing in traffic, which it occasionally does it re-starts straight away without any problem.

.
Just noticed this.....

When any car has a problem, it is USUALLY one thing- one fault. It is rare to have 2,3 things fail at once. (Unless the owner has had problems, just ignores them and finally asks for help...)

So I try to think "what ONE item will cause ALL these symptoms"

The stalling at idle does not fit a battery, IMO.

GL

Report back

A
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2013, 12:15 PM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Just noticed this.....

When any car has a problem, it is USUALLY one thing- one fault. It is rare to have 2,3 things fail at once. (Unless the owner has had problems, just ignores them and finally asks for help...)

So I try to think "what ONE item will cause ALL these symptoms"

The stalling at idle does not fit a battery, IMO.

GL

Report back

A
The car has been looked after, problems have been fixed as they have occurred and have not been ignored.

Maybe the occasional cutting out when stationary is a problem linked with fuel delivery, as you suggested could be a possible cause in an earlier post.

I spoke with the BMW dealership today about replacing the battery. They want 2,400 Qatari Riyals, which converts to around 415 British pounds. That’s outrageous for a battery, and I expect a battery change is not a DIY job either as the car will need
resetting and programming etc. afterwards.
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2013, 02:05 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Sand View Post
The car has been looked after, problems have been fixed as they have occurred and have not been ignored.

Maybe the occasional cutting out when stationary is a problem linked with fuel delivery, as you suggested could be a possible cause in an earlier post.

I spoke with the BMW dealership today about replacing the battery. They want 2,400 Qatari Riyals, which converts to around 415 British pounds. That’s outrageous for a battery, and I expect a battery change is not a DIY job either as the car will need
resetting and programming etc. afterwards.

It only needs resetting or the so called "registration" if you replace with the exact same battery.

And even then, it will work fine without registration, just possibly a reduced life.

Buy a $30 cable, and figure our how to load INPA or other SW on a laptop...or find an indy that will do it for a half hour/ hour of labor.

I wasnt saying you ignored issues- just explaining my diagnostic approach...
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2013, 04:40 PM
blue dragon blue dragon is offline
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There is a piece of freeware called bmw logger that will also allow you to register a new battery or clear codes. Easier to use than INPA too
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2013, 06:15 PM
wwang0014 wwang0014 is offline
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Starting problems when hot.

I have x70, 2009x5, 4.8l. engine malfunction, lower output.

What causes it? How to fix?


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  #14  
Old 05-19-2013, 06:15 PM
wwang0014 wwang0014 is offline
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Starting problems when hot.

E70, I meant


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  #15  
Old 05-19-2013, 08:03 PM
ard ard is offline
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Start your own thread..posting here is nonsense. Disrepsectful to the OP and it will confuse people with two separate conversations...
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2013, 02:40 AM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
It only needs resetting or the so called "registration" if you replace with the exact same battery.

And even then, it will work fine without registration, just possibly a reduced life.

Buy a $30 cable, and figure our how to load INPA or other SW on a laptop...or find an indy that will do it for a half hour/ hour of labor.

I wasnt saying you ignored issues- just explaining my diagnostic approach...

Thank you Ard for your advice.

I shall order the cable this evening. I expect that I will have to have it shipped from either the States or UK, so will be a few days before it arrives in Qatar.

I will post back when the new battery is fitted and registered to the car, hopefully with good news that everything is now fine.

Do you have a supplier of the cable that you could recommend.
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2013, 01:33 PM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue dragon View Post
There is a piece of freeware called bmw logger that will also allow you to register a new battery or clear codes. Easier to use than INPA too
Thanks Blue Dragon, I will give this software a go when I get the cable, easier to use suits me just fine.
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2013, 11:10 AM
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serge1 serge1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
When any car has a problem, it is USUALLY one thing- one fault. It is rare to have 2,3 things fail at once.
A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Sand View Post
...tell to change the battery, various sensors, relays, more than one management control unit etc. ect.
Typical BMW approach
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  #19  
Old 05-22-2013, 01:33 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Sand View Post
Do you have a supplier of the cable that you could recommend.
No, at the time I bought mine it needed to have a particluar chipset, and jumper certain pins... ebay is a good source. Actually if you go to the 'coding' subforum you willl likely find PRECISELY what you need. You dont need to get 'all in' with coding, just a decent cable and the SW running....

GL

A
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:00 AM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Sand View Post
I have a 2007 X5 (E70) with problems starting when hot (hot engine or hot outside temperature).

When the outside temperature is around 18 degrees the car in general will start fine.
When the outside temperature is around 25 degrees or the engine is already hot from driving earlier in the day, I know I will have problems starting the car.

I do not know if it has any bearing but, to get the car started I insert and remove the key for anywhere between 5 and 15 minutes and eventually the car will start.

My indicator of when the car will start for sure is when the amber battery symbol comes up on the dash.

In some instance when trying to start I get strange warnings up, for example, High Battery Discharge, Fault in Drive, DCS failed, amongst others. (Photos of examples of warnings attached).

However, once the engine is started, I can stop the engine, and immediately start again and the warnings in most instances with go and everything reads as fine.

I will add, that once the engine has started and if it cuts out standing in traffic, which it occasionally does it re-starts straight away without any problem.

I took the car to the BMW dealership who kept the car for 3 days to investigate, only for them to tell me to change the battery, various sensors, relays, more than one management control unit etc. ect. In other words they did not have a clue what was wrong and charged me 1000 QR (200GBP) for the privilege.

If someone could point me in the direction of what the cause of this could possibly be, it would be very much appreciated, and maybe BMW may learn something new about the cars they build.
A new battery has been supplied and fitted by BMW dealership, and still problems starting when either the car or the outside temperature is hot. Also, I still get the high battery discharge warnings.

I have ordered a diagnostic cable, which should be arriving in the next few days. Although, I doubt this will give much as the BMW dealership could not locate the problem when they put the car on their own diagnostic computer.

Advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated.
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  #21  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:03 AM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue dragon View Post
There is a piece of freeware called bmw logger that will also allow you to register a new battery or clear codes. Easier to use than INPA too
With the imminent arrival of a diagnostic cable I am looking at the BMW logger and INPA software to download, to try and see if this starting problem when car is hot can be diagnosed.

The BMW logger software says ‘Currently This Public Release Fully Supports MSS60, MSS65, MSS70, MSV70, MSV80, MSV80.1, MSD80, MSD81, and MSD85’.

How can I tell from the MS numbers above if my 2007 X5 (E70) will work with this software, and that I do not inadvertently brick the car.
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:13 AM
Desert Sand Desert Sand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Sand View Post
With the imminent arrival of a diagnostic cable I am looking at the BMW logger and INPA software to download, to try and see if this starting problem when car is hot can be diagnosed.

The BMW logger software says ‘Currently This Public Release Fully Supports MSS60, MSS65, MSS70, MSV70, MSV80, MSV80.1, MSD80, MSD81, and MSD85’.

How can I tell from the MS numbers above if my 2007 X5 (E70) will work with this software, and that I do not inadvertently brick the car.
It's ok I have found the version I need 'MSD85'.
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