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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 05-13-2013, 03:41 PM
danix danix is offline
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3.0 vs 35d maint costs

I'm shopping for a used X5 with third row. I prefer the 35d (I have a 335d) but they are quite a bit more money than the used 3.0si models. On the other hands, they will use a lot less fuel.

Given either engine with around 75-80k miles, what kind of maintenance would you expect as you head towards 100k or more? Filters etc are the easy stuff, and I imagine most of the issues will be around power seats, electronics and stuff like that.
But engine wise, what will need to be done to each? If there's a link to maintenance schedules for both engines, please share.
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  #2  
Old 05-16-2013, 09:44 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Bump.

I'm weighing the pros and cons of used 35d vs. 35i under 20k miles. I was all into the 35d but it seems like the 20 to 120-150k mile ownership experience may be less rocky in the 35i from maintenance and repair perspective due to emissions systems issues with the diesel. Anyone out there with a diesel that is getting up there in miles with comments?
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:56 PM
danix danix is offline
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I met a guy with a 335d that had 120k miles on it. He said post-warranty all kinds of crap broke (EGR, etc) to the tune of $5k.
I wonder if a lot of that stuff could be stripped out.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:20 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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That's consistent with some reports on the diesel forum. EGR had a recall in 2012 but don't know if that's enough to solve all the CEL problems which can get expensive to fix on the diesel.
I am now thinking the 35i is the way to go. They are about 5k less to purchase and I have not heard of major issues with the N55 motor. I would love a diesel but 5k less to buy and fewer repairs makes me think the 35i might be the more sensible choice.
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  #5  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:37 PM
ard ard is offline
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Yeah, both of you should get the gasser....
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2013, 07:51 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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3.0 vs 35d maint costs

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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Yeah, both of you should get the gasser....
Why? Looks like you have a new 35d. Problems?


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  #7  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:05 AM
Lance Alot Lance Alot is offline
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I think Ard is being sarcastic. It is a BMW, so post warranty "all kinds of crap" is going to break no matter what engine you have unfortunately. The resale on a D is significantly higher than gas in most parts of the country, so factor that into your equation.

With that said, you are probably over thinking this IMO. Get the car you like best, and buy the extended warranty if you are worried that much about repairs. I doubt you will go wrong that way. Diesels also have a reputation for lasting much longer than gas, but it is too early to test that theory on the X5 D...in the US at least.
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:52 AM
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ductman ductman is offline
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Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
Why? Looks like you have a new 35d. Problems?


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I have 35000 miles on my D, I have had 6 roadtrips to South Carolina, I have had no issues on any of the 1500 mile roundtrips at all, the only issue that I had at 10000 miles was a cracked EGR cooler , I just had a rear camera fault which is unrelated to either engine, camera was replaced along with the cable in the outside passenger mirror. Main difference in maintenance is the need for DEF fluid which added approx every 10k, after the maintenance is up I plan on taking care of this myself, it is as easy as filling up the washer fluid.
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2013, 01:58 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Alot View Post
I think Ard is being sarcastic. It is a BMW, so post warranty "all kinds of crap" is going to break no matter what engine you have unfortunately. The resale on a D is significantly higher than gas in most parts of the country, so factor that into your equation.

With that said, you are probably over thinking this IMO. Get the car you like best, and buy the extended warranty if you are worried that much about repairs. I doubt you will go wrong that way. Diesels also have a reputation for lasting much longer than gas, but it is too early to test that theory on the X5 D...in the US at least.
I could not detect whether sarcasm or real advice - hence my question.

I don't necessarily agree that all kinds of crap is going to break once out of warranty. I have had ten BMW's going back to the 2002 and E30 days as well as two MINIs. Several of the oldies have gone well past 200k miles with no major problems. These days may be over but I currently have an 06 MINI Cooper S and an 02 330cic both purchased new, and an 07 650i purchased five years ago with 13k miles on the clock. All are out of warranty and holding up well. The MINI has the highest mileage at close to 100k and other than LCA bushings and a couple motor mounts it's been a great commuter. The BMW's have only had old school maintenance and no mechanical part failures out of warranty. Had an 06 330i (E90) that people on this forum predicted would self destruct that I sold at 80k miles with zero issues. Maybe I've been lucky, but my experience with BMW's is that with good maintenance, the expensive mechanical bits tend to hold up well.

Back to the X5, I really want the diesel based on my use for the vehicle which is bi-weekly treks from SF to Reno. Given the high elevation mountainous highway driving, I think the diesel is a better choice. That being said the 35i has the better transmission and I am not seeing the same types of posts about problems.

I made an offer on a non CPO 2012 diesel earlier this week. The offer was not accepted but I expect the dealer will call back with a counter. It has the right level of equipment, right miles and looks new inside and out. There is an identical 2011 35i with a few more miles that is CPO'd at 7k less asking price. I want the diesel, but that 35i is tempting too cuz 7k buys a lot of gas...
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2013, 02:18 PM
The Green Beast The Green Beast is offline
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3.0 vs 35d maint costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ductman View Post
I have 35000 miles on my D, I have had 6 roadtrips to South Carolina, I have had no issues on any of the 1500 mile roundtrips at all, the only issue that I had at 10000 miles was a cracked EGR cooler , I just had a rear camera fault which is unrelated to either engine, camera was replaced along with the cable in the outside passenger mirror. Main difference in maintenance is the need for DEF fluid which added approx every 10k, after the maintenance is up I plan on taking care of this myself, it is as easy as filling up the washer fluid.
Ductman, what type of problem did you have with your backup camera and how was it fixed?

So far our X5d has been fantastic. 36k in 19 months. It's definitely the workhorse in the family. My wife loves driving it. Despite her being heavy on the brakes and accelerator it averages about 21.5 mpg (50-50 highway and city driving).


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  #11  
Old 05-17-2013, 02:59 PM
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Re: 3.0 vs 35d maint costs

Camera malfunction due to corrosion in the top down mirror on the passenger side, cable and camera were replaced.

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  #12  
Old 05-17-2013, 03:35 PM
The Green Beast The Green Beast is offline
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3.0 vs 35d maint costs

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Originally Posted by ductman View Post
Camera malfunction due to corrosion in the top down mirror on the passenger side, cable and camera were replaced.

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Thanks. I only ask because today my wife told me a "rear camera malfunction" indicator came on the dash/idrive. There is still an image in reverse and top-down views.

OP...didn't mean to change the content of the thread....However, Ductmans response was very timely. Good luck.


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  #13  
Old 05-17-2013, 11:21 PM
ard ard is offline
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My sarcasm was directed at the inanity of asking a few people repetitive questions on 'what was your problemn and how much did it cost' as a way to make a decision on what engine to buy. Or two guys agreeing with each other "oh thats what they said in the diesel forum"....

You are buying a luxury sport SUV...there are MANY other choices that will be more economical. To blithely determine "It will be a BMW X5" but then puzzle over 'which engine is cheaper to own' seems like you are kidding yourself.

IMO, As a class, the diesel or the gas, on average, will probably be within $500 over the life of the car. On average, all cars. But the range of cost for either the gas or the diese could be thousands..luck of the draw.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2013, 05:05 AM
danix danix is offline
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I don't find your reply helpful at all, nor do I think my comment/feedback was inane in any way.

To my original question, I was asking for a comparison of maintenance costs and common failure points for the 3.0 vs the 35d. I already know the 35d is more reliable and probably cheaper to maintain than the 35i for example.
But I wanted to know what comes after 70k. For example, if the 3.0 needs a $1200 water pump every 60k (I'm making this up) that's something I would want to know.

I've owned many diesel vehicles and have a 335d as my daily driver. But as I said, I ran across a guy with a 335d with 150k miles on it, and his comment was that had he known, he would never have kept the car past the extended warranty, because "everything" seemed to break after that point, and he had spent over $5k out of pocket in engine repairs, particularly around EGR stuff.
I'm not making this stuff up.
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:07 PM
ard ard is offline
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If you are asking for a "comparision of maintenance costs and common failure points" the answer is, simply, there is none.

There are plenty of anecdotes and reports but nothing that approach 'data' on which to base a decision. Plenty of people chiming in with comments that arent 'comparisons' - they are just anecdotes that cannot drive a rational decision....



But both you guys seemed to be impressed by the one guy spending "5k out of pocket for the EGR stuff", and since you both seemed swayed, my comment was "you should both buy the gasser". If it worries you, then dont buy the diesel.

Full circle.

I had a 2010 that I lemoned due to SCR issues. I'll keep this 2012 indefinitely. But I can wrench. I also live in CA with a pretty decent emissions warranty. And I didnt buy a $65,000 vehicle to be scared over a few thousand in expenses.

A
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Last edited by ard; 05-18-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2013, 08:25 AM
danix danix is offline
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Found a one owner 2009 35d with 79k miles for under $30k, might be a contender.
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:39 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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3.0 vs 35d maint costs

I guess I'm going with the gasser. I have a 2012 35i premium with 8k miles with convenience package (nav, comfort access, rear shades, garage door opener, rear camera), multi contour seats, heated seats, running boards, BMW apps, smart phone integration. Left the dealer to ponder but calling back tomorrow to seal the deal. I'm rather excited.



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Old 05-22-2013, 07:16 AM
txagbmw txagbmw is offline
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Know it hard to give a concrete answer. But you can get an idea. On the person who spent 5K. Said it was over 100k miles. well that's not bad. If was just a few thousand past warranty miles,
than you have to think is this going to happen every few thousand. The motor itself will probably outlast gas. Its the emission stuff that has people worried. Other items should be no different than gas. I just wonder if the emission stuff
is going to be a headache. And if BMW can wiggle out of emission claims even in states with extended emission warranties. I won't hit the warranty miles in 4. When started thinking my concern was a low mile driven diesel just as much
trouble as a high mileage. my 2010 335 had 11,500 at trade for 3.5 years. Another thing if can find a local shop capable of fixing the emission stuff. Will keep the SUV longer, its the BMW dealer that kills you on cost
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:05 AM
Lance Alot Lance Alot is offline
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Fredo - I have had three Bimmers that I own 5-6 years, and none of them had serious issues but they definitely did need repairs. Maybe, that doesn't qualify as "crap breaking", but the cars ended up in thee shop more than my previous Japanese cars...much more.

As far as the 8 speed being the better transmission, that is a matter of preference. Many people (including professional reviewers) have said that they prefer the gearing on the 6. For frequent trips from the Bay up to Tahoe, I think the D is the better choice, but I am sure you will enjoy whatever you decide to get. They are both fantastic vehicles.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:46 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Well one thing is a certainty, the mileage will be better coming back to the Bay Area from Tahoe -- no matter what engine you have.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:50 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
I guess I'm going with the gasser. I have a 2012 35i premium with 8k miles with convenience package (nav, comfort access, rear shades, garage door opener, rear camera), multi contour seats, heated seats, running boards, BMW apps, smart phone integration. Left the dealer to ponder but calling back tomorrow to seal the deal. I'm rather excited.



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Today was not such a good day. I called the dealer this morning and they bumped the price up by $1,500. Had the balls to tell me I must have heard wrong. I really love the car and I was thrilled with the miles, condition and equipment level (particularly those multi contour seats) but I'm walking away from it. I guess the dealer has a choice when it comes to their negotiation methods and it may work some of the time, I'm not going to endorse it and I'm more than a little miffed at the condescending comment.

Let the search resume
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:44 PM
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serge1 serge1 is offline
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Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
Today was not such a good day. I called the dealer this morning and they bumped the price up by $1,500. Had the balls to tell me I must have heard wrong.
Stick to email communication next time. That way your correspondence with them is cool-headed, thought out, and (most importantly) you have a record. It's hard for them to apply the usual pressure tactics when a buyer has time to think over it for a day.
That's what I did when purchasing my 35d from a dealer in another state. Everything was agreed upon in emails, and not a single issue came up when I showed up to pick up the vehicle.

If you really liked that vehicle, you may get them to come down to the price you heard them quote, by speaking to sales manager or the "internet sales department". But it looks like they will not go for more concessions and will treat going back to original price as some kind of big favor to you.
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:22 AM
jesus_man jesus_man is offline
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For your drive, and frequency, I would without a doubt choose the 3.5d. Google is telling me that is 440 miles round trip. Bi-weekly is 26 trips/yr. That's 11,440 miles.

If you can squeeze 19 MPG out of the gasser's that is 602 Gallons of fuel. Looks like the average in CA is $4.15 for Mid-grade = $2,500
I know you can get 27+ in the 3.5d which equates to 424 Gallons. Average is $3.98./gal = $1,690

Difference is around $810 per year in fuel savings. Drive both in immediate succession if you can and I think you'll like the way the 3.5d drives better anyway.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:29 AM
txagbmw txagbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serge1 View Post
Stick to email communication next time. That way your correspondence with them is cool-headed, thought out, and (most importantly) you have a record. It's hard for them to apply the usual pressure tactics when a buyer has time to think over it for a day.
That's what I did when purchasing my 35d from a dealer in another state. Everything was agreed upon in emails, and not a single issue came up when I showed up to pick up the vehicle.

If you really liked that vehicle, you may get them to come down to the price you heard them quote, by speaking to sales manager or the "internet sales department". But it looks like they will not go for more concessions and will treat going back to original price as some kind of big favor to you.
You are right. The only and can say only vehicle that was not a headache, not a bunch
of BS was an internet and email with a dealer in the area. I trade about every two
years. So had a deal on the new and than just dealt with a trade value on my old
truck. I just wanted it gone so any value was just icing on the cake. But the no
BS of I have to go present this to my manager poo ++++++
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:51 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesus_man View Post
For your drive, and frequency, I would without a doubt choose the 3.5d. Google is telling me that is 440 miles round trip. Bi-weekly is 26 trips/yr. That's 11,440 miles.

If you can squeeze 19 MPG out of the gasser's that is 602 Gallons of fuel. Looks like the average in CA is $4.15 for Mid-grade = $2,500
I know you can get 27+ in the 3.5d which equates to 424 Gallons. Average is $3.98./gal = $1,690

Difference is around $810 per year in fuel savings. Drive both in immediate succession if you can and I think you'll like the way the 3.5d drives better anyway.
I'm still on the fence to be honest. I am looking at low mileage examples of both diesels and 6 cylinder gas.

Your calcs are accurate for distance, but diesel is actually $.10 to $.20 more than super unleaded at any gas station so the savings would be a tad less than your calculation. Your 19MPG estimate for the gasser seems reasonable but I'm also not sure that I would get 27MPG out of the diesel given high altitude and mountainous terrain. FWIW, I used to get 16MPG with my former V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee on that drive during the winter, and I get 23MPG with the 650i during the summer.

At the end of the day it's not really ongoing costs. I want a clean no story car with low miles and the right equipment at a market correct price. I was gung ho about the diesel until I started reading multiple posts about problems and as a result I've opened the search to the gas engine as well. I'm bummed that dealer is playing tricks cuz I really liked the car and I would have it by now. It still has not sold so maybe I'll try to mend the bridge and come up with a compromise.
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