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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #176  
Old 04-29-2013, 01:21 PM
650miles 650miles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDEddie1 View Post
Great write up 650miles! Your driving experience after the upgrade really sealed the deal for me as far as doing both front and rear bar replacements. The 'balanced' feel and predictability you're now experiencing by doing both ends is what I am after. Waiting to hear Joe ptech''s planned 18mm install. But, maybe the 16mm like yours might just be enough for me since I wouldn't want to provoke any rear wheel dramatics taking hard curves with uneven road surfaces.
Your DIY tips were very helpful but its convinced me to let the dealer do it...he's go the tools and can manage the torque values. My AD has already quoted lowering springs, alignment, and Dinan shockwave so I think its just a matter of adding on the labor for the bars.
Just wondering...Have you done Dinan Shockwave yet? Any thoughts pro/con?

BTW...for Nison's post, the diameter of the rear bar is on the label easily visible if you look underneath the bumper towards the axle. My 550i M sport has EDC but only a 14mm rear bar. It needs to get big!
You won't be disappointed - the reduction in understeer was definitely noticeable to me, and (so far) there have been no 'unexpected wheel dramatics'.

Glad I could help with the DIY! Even if it was just to convince you to have the dealer do the work...

Apparently, the 2013 MSport package no longer includes EDC, or else I would have gotten the Shockware installed. So, I can't really help you there. (FYI - This was actually going to be my first mod. I set my appointement and excitedly headed over to the local Dinan shop, only to have him tell me 10 minutes later - 'You don't have EDC! There are no wires going into the shocks!' And, as we all know, I couldn't let that money continue to burn a hole in my pocket, nor could I walk away empty handed... so I ended up getting the S2 software, with only 150 miles on my baby at the time.)
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  #177  
Old 04-29-2013, 01:41 PM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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glad you guys found a working solution for the rear. Since my car is xdrive with DDC my stock rear bar is already 15mm. I need to find a sizable difference for the rear before its worth spending the cash on it. Hopefully there is a 17 or 18mm bar that fits somewhere.
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  #178  
Old 04-29-2013, 05:33 PM
650miles 650miles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
glad you guys found a working solution for the rear. Since my car is xdrive with DDC my stock rear bar is already 15mm. I need to find a sizable difference for the rear before its worth spending the cash on it. Hopefully there is a 17 or 18mm bar that fits somewhere.
I was wondering why you hadn't upgraded the rear bar, especially since you were such a pioneer on the front. Makes sense.
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  #179  
Old 05-08-2013, 08:24 AM
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Nison Nison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
glad you guys found a working solution for the rear. Since my car is xdrive with DDC my stock rear bar is already 15mm. I need to find a sizable difference for the rear before its worth spending the cash on it. Hopefully there is a 17 or 18mm bar that fits somewhere.
you wanna go BIG? there's this place in Taiwan making 30mm front/22mm rear, not sure if they ship here tho.
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/spr-racin...416&l=f&fid=60
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  #180  
Old 05-08-2013, 08:38 AM
650miles 650miles is offline
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One more comment to add on this entire setup (front M5 sway, rear 650 sway, ACS springs) - it is even BETTER with lighter rims. I'm not sure if everyone else installed their suspension mods around the same time / after they got their wheels (or if they even have aftermarket rims), but I definitely installed my mods before getting the wheels (waiting on my wheels to get finished). In any event, what was already a great setup with the OEM wheels became that much better once the lighter wheels were installed.
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  #181  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:03 AM
HDEddie1 HDEddie1 is offline
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Caution maybe?

I did an inquiry earlier this year to SPR and finally I got an email from a poster (not SPR) last week saying their available for $485 plus shipping to the states. No other info though. I questioned about the specs and bushings but have not gotten a reply. From a rough (google) translation of Chinese, I think these are made of tube steel (not solid spring steel) so while the dimensions appear huge, its performance may not be as BIG as it implies. If it were, however, do we really want our F10 to handle like a go cart (ie lifting a rear wheel every time you take a corner too fast on an uneven road)?
Nevertheless, I'd be hesitant until we hear about some real world testing stateside.
Even so, the OEM BMW solution (M5 front bar w/ 16 or 18mm rear bar) is a given, cost wise and performance wise, since BMW engineers have already spent the time figuring this out (right?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nison View Post
you wanna go BIG? there's this place in Taiwan making 30mm front/22mm rear, not sure if they ship here tho.
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/spr-racin...416&l=f&fid=60
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  #182  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:20 AM
HDEddie1 HDEddie1 is offline
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+1 Lighter=Better

Good point... Anything to reduce unsprung weights gotta help. Even the choice of tire.
Please comment on which rims and tires you went with. Do you know the weight of those rims and tires?
The stock 19" MSport style 351 rims are 32lbs and the stock Michelin Primacys run flats are 30-32lbs each. That's over 60lbs each corner (YIKES!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 650miles View Post
One more comment to add on this entire setup (front M5 sway, rear 650 sway, ACS springs) - it is even BETTER with lighter rims. I'm not sure if everyone else installed their suspension mods around the same time / after they got their wheels (or if they even have aftermarket rims), but I definitely installed my mods before getting the wheels (waiting on my wheels to get finished). In any event, what was already a great setup with the OEM wheels became that much better once the lighter wheels were installed.
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  #183  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:25 AM
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Nison Nison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDEddie1 View Post
From a rough (google) translation of Chinese, I think these are made of tube steel (not solid spring steel) so while the dimensions appear huge, its performance may not be as BIG as it implies.
It says they are made from 7050 aluminum not tube steel, so I imagine they are really stiff.

Last edited by Nison; 05-08-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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  #184  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:45 AM
HDEddie1 HDEddie1 is offline
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Opps! I might have been reading another past post speculating about these bars. Nevertheless, if they're really stiff, I can't help but think how they'll make the car handle on anything less than smooth, easy turns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nison View Post
It says they are made from 7050 aluminum not tube steel, so I imagine they are really stiff.
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  #185  
Old 05-08-2013, 12:55 PM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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Yeah I am not going with some no name brand aftermarket sway bars. OEM is the best if its an option. Cheap and you know its quality.

Alan
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  #186  
Old 05-08-2013, 01:13 PM
Silververtu Silververtu is offline
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I read the post and it's 7050 aluminum alloy. From the introduction it sounds like SPR has been in the market for quite some time. However, I've never heard of it so I will not try it.
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  #187  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:55 PM
Gre8tW8LL Gre8tW8LL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nison View Post
Confirmed, the M550d/650i 16mm rear sway bar fits!
the sway bar part# is: 33556791932
sway bar bushing: 33556788630 x2

the install only took 25 mins. it's easier than the front since there's no belly pan to remove

didnt have a chance to drive fast enough to test it out tonight, will report back later.
Just confirming, is this rear sway bar fitment for the 535xi or 535i?

Thanks
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  #188  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:57 PM
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Nison Nison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gre8tW8LL View Post
Just confirming, is this rear sway bar fitment for the 535xi or 535i?

Thanks
well both 535i and 535ix has the same stock rear bar, so i guess it fits both
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  #189  
Old 05-08-2013, 10:00 PM
Gre8tW8LL Gre8tW8LL is offline
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Thanks
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  #190  
Old 05-09-2013, 07:17 AM
Flavorguydfr Flavorguydfr is offline
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So - For Someone Completely Mechanically Illiterate

Can someone summarize or advise...

2012 550xi - with standard handling package (ie - no sport)....who wants to improve the handling and eliminate the mushiness of his ride ... who will be going to either a dealer or auto garage in NJ to have this done...

What Sway Bars (front? rear? front & rear?) should I order?

Garage/Dealer in Somerset/Morris County NJ you can recommended to do this...
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  #191  
Old 05-09-2013, 07:43 AM
650miles 650miles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDEddie1 View Post
Good point... Anything to reduce unsprung weights gotta help. Even the choice of tire.
Please comment on which rims and tires you went with. Do you know the weight of those rims and tires?
The stock 19" MSport style 351 rims are 32lbs and the stock Michelin Primacys run flats are 30-32lbs each. That's over 60lbs each corner (YIKES!).
D'oh!! I was so excited to get the wheels in and have them mounted that I never even thought to grab my scale and weigh them. I bought the BC Forged HB-29 wheels, 20x9 / 20x10, so not sure if someone already knows the weight on those (there's nothing on the website). I fitted them with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires (245/35/20 up front and 285/30/20 rear).

FWIW though, they definitely FELT much lighter when lifting them (I carried both sets within a couple of hours of each other). I mean, an "arm scale" has to be every bit as good as a "butt dyno", right???
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  #192  
Old 05-12-2013, 01:25 PM
tdang81 tdang81 is offline
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Got a chance to swap out my front Passive M-Sport sway bar this past weekend. Been waiting to get the issue of the car pulling to the right resolved, which my Service Center was able to do! Top notch to those guys for the patience and commitment to get it done!! (I'll post in that thread later about how they fixed it).

I have the 2013 535i with passive M-Sport suspension - no ARS, no DDC.

Snapped a few pics using a caliper to measure the differences between the M-Sport FSB and the M5 FSB. Install wasn't that bad. Having the External Torx bit (Size E18) for the 4 bolts at the bushings definitely helped. Also, it was a lot easier to remove the bar by removing the plastic around the bar as well, held onto by just the panel screws. I didn't have to thread through anything to get the bar off. The plastic panel that was wrapped around the bar was flexible enough to just slide the bar through it, once you took that screw off. Didn't get to take pics of this, sorry, but its just a panel screw on the side.

Pic below of stock M-Sport FSB still mounted on car, measured with caliper:


Top=M5 FSB vs Bottom=Stock M-Sport FSB (off car):


Caliper Measurement of Stock M-Sport FSB (off car):


Caliper Measurement of M5 FSB:


End link angles - Left=M5, Right=MSport:




The 2mm increase in diameter from the Msport to M5 FSB, has a huge impact on handling, and the driving characteristics are pretty significant. Turn in is quicker, Bump transfer is more muted, and driving predictability is more accurate. The car just drives a lot better. Well worth the mod!!

You guys should definitely get this done. Forget the group buy, just get it, it definitely is a vast improvement!!
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  #193  
Old 05-12-2013, 02:17 PM
HDEddie1 HDEddie1 is offline
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Good to know!

Thanks for the pics, specs, and install info!

Now we know. The M5 front sway bar is 2 mm thicker.
I'm going to change to a 550d rear bar (16mm) as well when I do the front M5 bar. I can't help to think that balances everything out, front and rear, nicely (plus, the M5 rear bar won't retro fit anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdang81 View Post
Got a chance to swap out my front Passive M-Sport sway bar this past weekend. Been waiting to get the issue of the car pulling to the right resolved, which my Service Center was able to do! Top notch to those guys for the patience and commitment to get it done!! (I'll post in that thread later about how they fixed it).

I have the 2013 535i with passive M-Sport suspension - no ARS, no DDC.

Snapped a few pics using a caliper to measure the differences between the M-Sport FSB and the M5 FSB. Install wasn't that bad. Having the External Torx bit (Size E18) for the 4 bolts at the bushings definitely helped. Also, it was a lot easier to remove the bar by removing the plastic around the bar as well, held onto by just the panel screws. I didn't have to thread through anything to get the bar off. The plastic panel that was wrapped around the bar was flexible enough to just slide the bar through it, once you took that screw off. Didn't get to take pics of this, sorry, but its just a panel screw on the side.

Pic below of stock M-Sport FSB still mounted on car, measured with caliper:


Top=M5 FSB vs Bottom=Stock M-Sport FSB (off car):


Caliper Measurement of Stock M-Sport FSB (off car):


Caliper Measurement of M5 FSB:


End link angles - Left=M5, Right=MSport:




The 2mm increase in diameter from the Msport to M5 FSB, has a huge impact on handling, and the driving characteristics are pretty significant. Turn in is quicker, Bump transfer is more muted, and driving predictability is more accurate. The car just drives a lot better. Well worth the mod!!

You guys should definitely get this done. Forget the group buy, just get it, it definitely is a vast improvement!!
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  #194  
Old 05-12-2013, 02:26 PM
tdang81 tdang81 is offline
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No problem at all! Glad to answer some uncertainties about bar thickness. Also glad to contribute to the community in my small part.

I agree with trying to balance out the car, but I'm going to ride a bit with just the front bar in for now, it's a significant improvement over stock as is. Will decide if I need to swap out the rear too, after I clock in a few miles. Looks like its another ~$200 for the F12 16mm Rear Sway.

Fronts: 24mm (stock MSport) --> 26mm (M5)
Rear: 14mm (stock MSport) --> 16mm (M550d/F12)

Looks like it makes sense for an overall balance!

Cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDEddie1 View Post
Thanks for the pics, specs, and install info!

Now we know. The M5 front sway bar is 2 mm thicker.
I'm going to change to a 550d rear bar (16mm) as well when I do the front M5 bar. I can't help to think that balances everything out, front and rear, nicely (plus, the M5 rear bar won't retro fit anyway).

Last edited by tdang81; 05-12-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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  #195  
Old 05-12-2013, 09:36 PM
Supercomputers Supercomputers is offline
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I have the m5 front in and love it but my stock 550xi rear is 15mm don't think we have anything for the rear yet but a 16mm to close to stock two switch Need 17mm or higher
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  #196  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:50 AM
shoek shoek is offline
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Is this all moot if you have ARS? I presume those sway bars are different altogether because of the electronics?
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  #197  
Old 05-13-2013, 10:24 AM
HDEddie1 HDEddie1 is offline
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Yes it is. ARS works like a charm. My daughter's F10 535i M Sport with ARS and even my wife's E60 528i with ARS handles MUCH, MUCh better than my 550i M Sport without ARS. Check out the tech details (I think there is even a you tube video) on how ARS works...it controls roll not with static sway bar size but alters the roll stiffness by electronic preloading when needed...really amazing and effective.
That being said, however, the factory does tune the sway bars on ARS equipped cars on the mild side to accommodate a decent ride without dramatics from overstiff bars.
If you're lucky enough to have ARS on your car, then normal sway and roll is already taken care of (toggle your driving dynamics to "sport" or sport + for the chassis for a bit more). But if you need more sway/roll control, try some proper lowering springs (like ACS) and some dampening control when taking twisties...check into DDC improvements (like Dinan "Shockware").

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoek View Post
Is this all moot if you have ARS? I presume those sway bars are different altogether because of the electronics?
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Last edited by HDEddie1; 05-13-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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  #198  
Old 05-13-2013, 07:09 PM
pinguhk pinguhk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nison View Post
Confirmed, the M550d/650i 16mm rear sway bar fits!
the sway bar part# is: 33556791932
sway bar bushing: 33556788630 x2

the install only took 25 mins. it's easier than the front since there's no belly pan to remove

didnt have a chance to drive fast enough to test it out tonight, will report back later.
Will this rear bar fit my 528i Msport?

after changing the front bar did you do a wheel alinement's?
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  #199  
Old 05-13-2013, 07:44 PM
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Nison Nison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguhk View Post
Will this rear bar fit my 528i Msport?
yes, the stock rear bar are the same for 528, 535, 550.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguhk View Post
after changing the front bar did you do a wheel alinement's?
you dont need an alignment.
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  #200  
Old 05-21-2013, 07:35 PM
Cchrono Cchrono is offline
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Does anybody know the torque specs. I'm planning on installing tomorrow just want to see if anybody has the specs before I dive in.
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