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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:32 AM
jpc0706 jpc0706 is offline
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Flood Car - 2011 335i Convertible

Hello Everyone,

I am the proud new owner of a 2011 335i Convertible. The car runs and drives good. It does have the following issues:

1. Bottom of power seats do not work on driver or passenger side BUT the back rest goes forward and back (heated seats work)

2. The following error codes are displayed on the dash: airbag light, traction control light (DSC), brake light, low tire pressure.

3. Power top is not working. When the button to lower the convertible top is pressed, the car display reads “Retractable hardtop - Vehicle is not on a level surface. ” I was told that this could be due to the tire pressure monitor sensors being oxidized.

4. All other electronics seem to be working as they should including the radio, navigation system, power windows, power locks etc.

I've read a number of articles about the possibility of wheel sensors or wheel angle sensors being bad but am wondering what are my realistic worse case scenarios. What modules might I have to replace and where are those modules located? I'm a mechanically minded person but am wondering what is the best way to troubleshoot this? Can I purchase a scan tool off of ebay? Will that work? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jody
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:37 AM
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Don't keep us in suspense ..... how much did the project car sell for?
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  #3  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:42 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Congrats!


Flood car? Oh boy. Get ready for a barrage of critics calling you an idiot for buying a flood damaged car.

Then a few nice knowledgeable folks will tell you to buy a diagnostic cable and code reader and some brand of software.

You say you are mechanically able so don't listen to the critics and buy that cable and start reading some codes. Hopefully you can find the bad module(s) (if any) and replace them and recode the new ones.

Good luck and enjoy your new car!

P.S.

I also bought a "water damaged" car (a 2006 325i) for half price and have been very pleased with it so far.
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  #4  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:45 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpc0706 View Post
I am the proud new owner of a 2011 335i Convertible. The car runs and drives good. It does have the following issues:

1. Bottom of power seats do not work on driver or passenger side BUT the back rest goes forward and back (heated seats work)

2. The following error codes are displayed on the dash: airbag light, traction control light (DSC), brake light, low tire pressure.

3. Power top is not working. When the button to lower the convertible top is pressed, the car display reads "Retractable hardtop - Vehicle is not on a level surface. " I was told that this could be due to the tire pressure monitor sensors being oxidized.

4. All other electronics seem to be working as they should including the radio, navigation system, power windows, power locks etc.

I've read a number of articles about the possibility of wheel sensors or wheel angle sensors being bad but am wondering what are my realistic worse case scenarios. What modules might I have to replace and where are those modules located? I'm a mechanically minded person but am wondering what is the best way to troubleshoot this? Can I purchase a scan tool off of ebay? Will that work? Any help is greatly appreciated.

An educational purchase - excellent! You'll know much more at completion.

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Start with this small calibration....effect?
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  #5  
Old 06-24-2013, 11:17 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpc0706 View Post
I am the proud new owner of a 2011 335i Convertible. The car runs and drives good. It does have the following issues:

<>

I've read a number of articles about the possibility of wheel sensors or wheel angle sensors being bad but am wondering what are my realistic worse case scenarios. What modules might I have to replace and where are those modules located? I'm a mechanically minded person but am wondering what is the best way to troubleshoot this? Can I purchase a scan tool off of ebay? Will that work? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Generic scan tools are not terribly useful on an E90 series. Too many of the error codes are buried under proprietary BMW PIDs.

I would suggest you look at this: http://www.bavariantechnic.com/buy.aspx The $287 version should work for you. It will test and report on the condition of the various control modules in the car.

"Realistic worst case scenario"? Corroded and shorted wiring harnesses. Kind of a YBF scenario in that event.
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Last edited by Zooks527; 06-24-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2013, 01:40 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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OP, was the 'flood' fresh water or salt water? If it was salt water sell it immediately for anything you can get for it. Anything. If it was fresh water you are going to need a few modules and may come out smelling like a rose. Fresh water stops hurting when it dries out. Salt water never stops attacking everything. Even when it dries it leaves salt behind and that salt does everything as much good as if you had soaked things in battery acid.
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2013, 01:45 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
An educational purchase - excellent! You'll know much more at completion.

Attachment 383397

Start with this small calibration....effect?
That's a wonderful DIY Cal, one of the best step-by-steps I've seen for a high tech repair, but I really don't think it is going to help the OP.
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2013, 03:36 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
That's a wonderful DIY Cal, one of the best step-by-steps I've seen for a high tech repair, but I really don't think it is going to help the OP.

Ya gotta start somewhere.

And, hey, that salt's not so bad....until moisture completes a corrosion cell. High conc o'chlorides play a trick on many metals, especially iron & alloys. Conducts really well too. Anode, cathode, dang!

If saltwater, best thing t'do is ford deep streams -- the effect washes away. Caution! Install intake snorkel before remedial action such as below; nubby's for aqueous propulsion.





Avoid submersion! Nubbys lose thrust and you may quickly run low on oxygen.

You're smart if you park where standing water is likely to soon occur. Thus, your Bimmer is cleansed, perhaps while you are at work. In coastal areas, flooding frequently occurs with rainfall + high tide -- consult local tide tables.

Should you need transportation during flood cleaning, and your Bimmer is properly located so that the water table does not rise more than 70% of tire height, you should use this technique to drive your car:



Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 06-24-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:02 PM
jpc0706 jpc0706 is offline
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Update...

Thanks for all the replies! I paid $17,100. Seems like a solid deal for this car with 10K miles, but we shall see. Obviously it will all boil down to the extent of the damage. Any idea of where can I get a list of computer modules and their location so I can start figuring this thing out?

It doesn't seem that Bentley offers a service manual for a 2011 model. Any suggestions? I need all the help I can get

Thanks!
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2013, 09:10 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpc0706 View Post
Thanks for all the replies! I paid $17,100. Seems like a solid deal for this car with 10K miles, but we shall see. Obviously it will all boil down to the extent of the damage. Any idea of where can I get a list of computer modules and their location so I can start figuring this thing out?

It doesn't seem that Bentley offers a service manual for a 2011 model. Any suggestions? I need all the help I can get

Thanks!
Forget the Bentley manual. It would be of little help in your situation. Bentley is very lax in this area.
You need to go to Alldata.com. Get a civilian short term subscription. They have all the facts you need but will not explain how to go about doing the diagnosis, though they may tell you how to test some components. Frankly, the kind of diagnostics needed in your situation requires a lot of learning first. You are going to have to start by learning as much about each of the affected systems as you can.
You saved a ton of dough buying that 335, but you may have to spend some of it to have a pro check it out.
I assume you got a salvage title on the car?
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  #11  
Old 06-25-2013, 02:57 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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I dont see where he answered the salt water or fresh water question, I think he is totally screwed, If he gets the car running I think it will be a constant problem car, and he will most likely cost more to get it right than if he would have just paid for a used car in great shape

good luck
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:28 AM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
I dont see where he answered the salt water or fresh water question, I think he is totally screwed, If he gets the car running I think it will be a constant problem car ...
Oh, c'mon! Saw the roof off - problem solved. Weld a nice roll cage. Interior? Out. Another 200 pounds saved. You are now about 500 - 600 pounds lighter! Get some race rotors and pads, nice set of R-compound tires and you are in heaven! Nothing wrong with that car ...
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2013, 07:23 PM
jpc0706 jpc0706 is offline
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Hey All:

I finally received the car. It sure does look good. However, it does of course have some issues...

1. Front seats do not work
2. Climate control fan does not work (panel lights up)
3. DSC, Airbag, TPM and Brake lights all on
4. Top does no lower

Other than these issues the car is a beaut! Digging into these issues. Will keep everyone posted.

Does anyone know when I can get some E93 front seats? My covers are good but the track and frame not so much.

Thanks!
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:44 PM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpc0706 View Post
Hey All:

I finally received the car. It sure does look good. However, it does of course have some issues...

1. Front seats do not work
2. Climate control fan does not work (panel lights up)
3. DSC, Airbag, TPM and Brake lights all on
4. Top does no lower

Other than these issues the car is a beaut! Digging into these issues. Will keep everyone posted.

Does anyone know when I can get some E93 front seats? My covers are good but the track and frame not so much.

Thanks!
As I predicted some folks saying you're "screwed" and some folks offering good advice.

My car only had some fresh water get in through a broken sunroof. I have sealed the roof with a piece of plexiglass while I await the time and dough to fix it properly. I have driven it for six months, putting over 3,000 miles on it, and have had exactly zero problems. Even though many self-appointed "experts" here at Bimmerfest told me I was a moron for buying a "water damaged" car.

I got the car for less than half the Kelly Blue book value and the sun roof and body work are adding up to less than two grand (admittedly with me doing most of the work, such as getting parts and pulling the headliner etc.).

It sounds like you have less body damage but more "water damage". It would be interesting to hear if your "flood damage" was from fresh of salt water.

It would obviously be better if it was fresh water damage but I think the whole salt water "time bomb" thing is over stated.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:51 PM
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SilverX3 SilverX3 is offline
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Originally Posted by jpc0706 View Post
Hello Everyone,

2. The following error codes are displayed on the dash: airbag light, traction control light (DSC), brake light, low tire pressure.
Jody
good news

2011 DSC can be re-conditioned for about $300-$400 here

http://absrepair.com.au/
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:16 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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So FRESH or SALT water damage, or maybe you dont even know, I would bet its a north east coast car from Sandy


good luck but if the top wont go down its not a convertible
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:29 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpc0706 View Post
Hey All:

I finally received the car. It sure does look good. However, it does of course have some issues...

1. Front seats do not work
2. Climate control fan does not work (panel lights up)
3. DSC, Airbag, TPM and Brake lights all on
4. Top does no lower

Other than these issues the car is a beaut! Digging into these issues. Will keep everyone posted.

Does anyone know when I can get some E93 front seats? My covers are goodbut the track and frame not so much.

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
As I predicted some folks saying you're "screwed" and some folks offering good advice.

My car only had some fresh water get in through a broken sunroof. I have sealed the roof with a piece of plexiglass while I await the time and dough to fix it properly. I have driven it for six months, putting over 3,000 miles on it, and have had exactly zero problems. Even though many self-appointed "experts" here at Bimmerfest told me I was a moron for buying a "water damaged" car.

I got the car for less than half the Kelly Blue book value and the sun roof and body work are adding up to less than two grand (admittedly with me doing most of the work, such as getting parts and pulling the headliner etc.).

It sounds like you have less body damage but more "water damage". It would be interesting to hear if your "flood damage" was from fresh of salt water.

It would obviously be better if it was fresh water damage but I think the whole salt water "time bomb" thing is over stated.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Are your seat track and frames rusted to the point where you need to replace them? Definite sign of salt water immersion.

Let me again state my opinion based on 40 years of experience with cars and trucks having salt water immersion. Do yourself a favor, sell this car now for whatever you can get for it. Take a loss, whatever. You have bought a money pit which will get worse every single day.
I live not too far from the Atlantic. Customers have immersed pickup frames and drive lines in salt water while launching boats. Others have had waves come over a sea wall while watching storms. Still others have gone striper fishing and thought it would be cool to drive at speed along the tidal flats. Also, like you, some have bought cars at auction knowing they were flood cars (Superstorm Sandy most recently, but a few Nor'easters as well over the years). Salt is an insidious destroyer. You cannot "rinse it off". It never sleeps. I cannot emphasize enough that it is a ticking time bomb, even if BB does disagree.
You will not believe until you see it what salt is doing to the metal in your car. The electronics are already wiped, the body is taking longer. Things are going to fail one after the other. Get out while you still can.
Have I made myself clear? You did ask for opinions did you not?

On the plus side, the DSC, and Brake lights can probably be fixed as a twofer. They and the TPM and the SRS (airbag) lights are all on because their sensors are low in the chassis and got destroyed by the salt water.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:32 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
So FRESH or SALT water damage, or maybe you dont even know, I would bet its a north east coast car from Sandy


good luck but if the top wont go down its not a convertible
That's rubbing er...salt...in the wound!
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:37 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by SilverX3 View Post
good news

2011 DSC can be re-conditioned for about $300-$400 here

http://absrepair.com.au/
Yes, but how do we know that the problem isn't the module but the wheel speed sensors? They and the tone rings which are cast iron do not play well with salt water.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:51 AM
jpc0706 jpc0706 is offline
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Thanks for all the advice and recommendations. Sure, it may be a complete basket case later down the line. As for right now, it sure doesn't seem that way. It's amazingly clean and sure I may be dealing with some residual affects of the water but I'm going to press on, at least attempting to resolve the issues I currently have.

I thought the first place to start would be with the seats, because they would be a quick fix (easily accessible, visible, etc). However, I can't physically get the seats out of the car. They are positioned in such a manner that makes getting to the rear bolts impossible. I've taken the seat apart as much as I reasonably can but still extremely limited access to any securing bolts. Now it looks like I'm going to have to physically destroy the frame to remove them or possibly sheer the bolt heads off using liquid nitrogen Any thoughts on sliding a stuck seat is appreciated
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  #21  
Old 08-19-2013, 07:17 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Salt is an insidious destroyer. You cannot "rinse it off". It never sleeps. I cannot emphasize enough that it is a ticking time bomb, even if BB does disagree.

Bit of a misconception here....chlorides are generally very, very soluble and salt as magnesium, calcium, and sodium chloride is easily removed w/garden hose.

BUT!
[1] It never sleeps - TRUE

[2] Ticking time bomb of fury - TRUE is not rinsed off
Defenses range from preventing contact [coating] to sacrificial anodes [galvanizing]. Coating includes paint and parrafin, used on car panels to prevent 'body cancer' in the 80's and later if I remember right. Often paint primer contains corrosion inhibitors like zinc.

Way back when, zinc chromate was in use. It was the Final Solution for corrosion, yielding exquisitely low corrosion rates. Used on everything! Planes, ships; cars. But those pesky environmental wack-o's found that it causes cancer and regulated it out of use. For some reason the aerosol coming out of cooling towers was especially objectionable to them.

Go figure.
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2013, 07:20 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Yes, but how do we know that the problem isn't the module but the wheel speed sensors? They and the tone rings which are cast iron do not play well with salt water.

What are tone rings?
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  #23  
Old 08-19-2013, 07:49 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Bit of a misconception here....chlorides are generally very, very soluble and salt as magnesium, calcium, and sodium chloride is easily removed w/garden hose.
When I said "rinsed off" I meant in a soaked car context. Without disassembly it is not possible to rinse it out of the carpeting, sound deadening, upholstery and nooks and crannies everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
What are tone rings?
They are the toothed rings attached to each rotating hub/bearing assembly which, as they pass by the sensor, induce a change in the magnetic field causing microvoltage to be sent to the ABS module. They are the devices by which the module, counting the number of pulses from each sensor, knows the rotational speed of each wheel.
Edit: Tone ring failure due to rust is common. What happens is that the rust gets between the hub and the ring (the rings rust very easily being uncoated iron) and the pressure eventually cracks the ring. The sensor picks this crack up as a recurring, out of sync pulse failure, and the module shuts down the ABS. It's fail-safe carried to the extreme.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 08-19-2013 at 07:53 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-19-2013, 08:02 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Way back when, zinc chromate was in use. It was the Final Solution for corrosion, yielding exquisitely low corrosion rates. Used on everything! Planes, ships; cars. But those pesky environmental wack-o's found that it causes cancer and regulated it out of use. For some reason the aerosol coming out of cooling towers was especially objectionable to them.

Go figure.
Cal, I have a lot of experience in that area. In a former life I spent a couple years as a QC engineer for a casting company. One of their customers, Anixter, needed a steel casting to be extremely corrosion resistant because it would hold electronics, and be submerged in sewerage. I spec'd hot dip galvanizing by Wilcox-Crittendon in CT, and a product called ZRC for touch up. ZRC is a spray much like paint. The initials stand for zinc rich chromate and it held up to corrosive atmospheres and immersion extremely well.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:18 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
When I said "rinsed off" I meant in a soaked car context. Without disassembly it is not possible to rinse it out of the carpeting, sound deadening, upholstery and nooks and crannies everywhere.

That is grim....
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