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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X1 E84 (2011 - current)

X1 E84 (2011 - current)
The new to the US BMW X1 will arrive at BMW dealers in the fall of 2012 as a 2013 model year. Get your X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or get the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i dDrive.

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  #1  
Old 06-23-2013, 05:05 PM
nbercasio nbercasio is offline
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ASS Function....

...will save us some fuel but look on the page 58 of the manual - "Certain vehicle components may experience additional wear as a result of this system" so what is the point of saving money with ASS but at the end, you spend it to replace these components?

I have been driving my car since Thurs. I am not quite sold to ASS yet. What about you?

Last edited by nbercasio; 06-23-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2013, 06:35 PM
richerich richerich is offline
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I hear ya, concerned about wear and tear. Also I haven't figured how to park and turn car off without the ASS stopping, kinda annoying.

Last edited by richerich; 06-24-2013 at 01:36 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2013, 07:19 PM
nbercasio nbercasio is offline
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Originally Posted by richerich View Post
I hear ya, concerned about wear and tear. Also I haven't figured how to park and turn car off exactly, kinda annoying.
I feel sarcasm with your reply. You missed the point completely. What is the point of ASS?, just to satisfy the environmentalist or government regulations if there is no benefit at the end?
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  #4  
Old 06-23-2013, 07:44 PM
Ex-One Ex-One is offline
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ASS Function....

I believe it may appeal to lease deals where people don't care about the reliability long term.


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  #5  
Old 06-24-2013, 06:25 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Ex-One View Post
I believe it may appeal to lease deals where people don't care about the reliability long term.


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The stop/start system has been in European BMW's for longer than in the US. I have not read that long term reliability has suffered. This is BMW covering saying what their attorneys tell them to say. These cars use a special heavy duty starter made by Bosch.
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2013, 07:58 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
The stop/start system has been in European BMW's for longer than in the US. I have not read that long term reliability has suffered. This is BMW covering saying what their attorneys tell them to say. These cars use a special heavy duty starter made by Bosch.
Some reference material to the starters was posted on the F30 forum in: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=696295
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2013, 09:25 AM
nbercasio nbercasio is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Some reference material to the starters was posted on the F30 forum in: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=696295
There you go from the thread you posted "Also, factor in a new starter much sooner than you'd normally need one. Those aren't cheap. "

So I was saying what is the point of ASS if at the end, there is NO SAVINGS at all. It is more to make the Global warming folks happy, nothing more! The more I read about it the more I am opt to turn it off permanently.

Last edited by nbercasio; 06-24-2013 at 09:31 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:23 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by nbercasio View Post
"Also, factor in a new starter much sooner than you'd normally need one. Those aren't cheap. ".
I wish you would be more careful with your phrasings; it makes it seem like I posted in that thread.

It's kind of clear you didn't read the entire thread, which recent posts note that the Bosch starter is toughened. The post you're quoting from was from the beginning of the thread, over a month ago. Here is the relevant post from last week: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...&postcount=110
It seems pretty clear that the starter will last as long as a starter on a non-ASS car.

In any case, OPINIONS are not FACTS. We have no facts on reliability of ASS and the starter. I have seen no failure reports in the F30 forum (which although only anectodal), is far more factual than your opinion.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2013, 12:29 PM
whitby whitby is offline
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There are lot of changes to the design of a vehicle to make the start stop system work. Changes are made to the transmission, battery, charging system, starter motor etc. and they are designed to give a service life that is equivalent to a vehicle that is not equipped with an automatic start stop (at least that is the assumption until you read the BMW manual). However they will cost more when they wear out, since they are more complex and/or larger.

What's the point? To save fuel. This is either to put money in your pocket (which of course may be taken out of your pocket when the parts needs to be replaced) or lower usage of a none renewable (at least in our timeframe) resource or to reduce carbon emissions. As was pointed out, Europe has had start stop for some time because the European drive cycles used for assessing fuel consumption include the benefit of start stop. In the US the EPA tests do not see any benefit from these systems.

For myself I believe that turning the engine off while you stand still is sensible. What's the point of keeping it running unless the net effect is that the engine associated components have a shorter service life. This seems to be the main point of the discussion here. Bottom line is that I have not seen any data that suggests that they wear out faster, just that they will probably cost more when they do, apart from that line in the BMW manual that seems to contradict that theory. I have no idea why BMW put that line in the manual unless it is a sideswipe at the European authorities who, sort of, mandate, start stop systems. Except why introduce it here if it is such a problem? All very confusing and makes little or no sense to me.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2013, 01:48 PM
nbercasio nbercasio is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I wish you would be more careful with your phrasings; it makes it seem like I posted in that thread.

It's kind of clear you didn't read the entire thread, which recent posts note that the Bosch starter is toughened. The post you're quoting from was from the beginning of the thread, over a month ago. Here is the relevant post from last week: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...&postcount=110
It seems pretty clear that the starter will last as long as a starter on a non-ASS car.

In any case, OPINIONS are not FACTS. We have no facts on reliability of ASS and the starter. I have seen no failure reports in the F30 forum (which although only anectodal), is far more factual than your opinion.
Read well and you will see, I wrote "from the thread you posted" not from the reply your posted....

Anyway, thanks for providing the thread about Bosch starter. I decided to search more about this Bosch Star/Stop function and I found this link

http://johndayautomotivelectronics.c...-fuel-savings/

Is it accurate at all? Does BMW really use a Bosch brand because I don't think this is true to X1 "Consumers who have driven vehicles equipped with Start/Stop have been impressed with how smooth and quiet the system operates. The enhanced starter meshing mechanics guarantee safe, fast, and quiet engine starts in all situations."

In my own opinion, X1's start/stop is neither smooth nor quiet at all...

However, it was refreshing to read this..

"To ensure a reliable Start/Stop operation, Bosch supplies alternators with a higher level of efficiency, thus ensuring that the battery always has sufficient energy stored for Start/Stop operations."

"In real world city driving, consumers can experience 10% to 15% fuel savings with a Start/Stop system. When engineers tested the system on a 4.3-mile test route with a dozen-second stops, the system cut fuel consumption and CO2 emissions by up to 8%. This varies with different vehicle types, but if the stops are longer, the fuel and CO2 percentage savings can be much higher. No matter how it is measured, the savings are significant."

And lastly, it is too early to tell about the cost benefits. I haven't found any data yet about the cost of repairs related to ASS or components replaced due to worn and tear.

Last edited by nbercasio; 06-24-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2013, 05:57 PM
icemilkcoffee icemilkcoffee is offline
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BMW chose to implement start/stop in a stupid way. The Prius constantly starts and stops its gas engine too- but it uses the generator to do the starting and stopping. By contrast, BMW uses the conventional flywheel ring gear to do it. This is one area of the engine that has no lubrication, and is expensive to replace when it wears out. GM has some mild hybrid cars too- I believe they use a belt to start the engine. If a belt wears out- that's a $10 part. If your flywheel and starter wears out, that would easily be a $2000+ bill.
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2013, 06:36 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
BMW chose to implement start/stop in a stupid way. The Prius constantly starts and stops its gas engine too- but it uses the generator to do the starting and stopping.
You are correct, but your post is completely misleading. In a Prius, the generator sits between the torque-splitter/motor assembly and the engine. It's quite a bit bigger than the alternators on our gas/diesel cars, and runs off the big battery pack when it starts the engine. The alternators on our cars cannot be used as a motor (that's why they're called an alternator), and are not big enough to do the start task in any case.

Not sure, but the Active Hybrid 3 may be able to use it's generator to do the same, although it has a standard starter, too.
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  #13  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:18 PM
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greyX1 greyX1 is offline
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Originally Posted by nbercasio View Post
It is more to make the Global warming folks happy, nothing more!.
Who are these "Global warming" folks you mention?
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Last edited by greyX1; 06-25-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2013, 07:45 PM
two-five boy two-five boy is offline
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Originally Posted by nbercasio View Post
... so what is the point of saving money with ASS but at the end, you spend it to replace these components?
The point is for BMW to achieve artificially higher EPA #'s, w/o footing the bill for starter replacement as most likely the car will be well past warranty period when the starter fails.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2013, 10:34 PM
nbercasio nbercasio is offline
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Originally Posted by two-five boy View Post
The point is for BMW to achieve artificially higher EPA #'s, w/o footing the bill for starter replacement as most likely the car will be well past warranty period when the starter fails.
For this reason, mine is off permanently...I read the starter is around $2000
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  #16  
Old 06-30-2013, 02:31 AM
coole65i coole65i is offline
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I just had this feature set to LAST USER MODE. There is a SIB out from BMW that if an owner so chooses, BMW will reprogram your car to have this setting remember your last selection. Now I don't have to remember to push the button every time I start the car. The SIB number escapes me at the moment. Will look at my RO from the dealership and repost for those who are interested.
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2013, 09:36 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by nbercasio View Post
For this reason, mine is off permanently...I read the starter is around $2000
Don't know where you're getting your prices. On penskeparts.com (for some reason realoem.com isn't listing prices for F30 starters), the starter for an E9x 328i starter is $411. For an F3x 328i it's $441 (for ASS vehicles).

Kind of blows a lot of people's arguments out of the water, eh?

Last edited by floydarogers; 06-30-2013 at 10:31 AM.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2013, 03:24 PM
dgkfl dgkfl is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Kind of blows a lot of people's arguments out of the water, eh?
That plus the fact that ASS does not help in the EPA testing cycle (though it does in the European testing cycle.).
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:31 PM
coole65i coole65i is offline
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Here's the SIB as promised.

SI B12 15 12

INFORMATION
The Automatic Start/Stop (MSA) system is a further BMW Efficient Dynamics measure aimed at meeting BMW's commitment to reducing CO2 emissions and enhancing fuel economy.

BMW, always a leader in innovative technology, will be the first automobile manufacturer to bring MSA technology to all new models.

Automatic Start/Stop systems will become prevalent in the future, as manufacturers strive to meet increasingly stringent emissions and fuel economy requirements.

By automatically switching the engine off when the car is stationary, MSA can improve fuel economy and reduce emissions.

New F-vehicles now incorporate the second generation of MSA (MSA II), which has been further developed to operate in combination with an automatic transmission and the BN2020 electrical system.

A detailed description of the MSA Automatic Start/Stop function can be found in the ICP Technician library under Technical Training course ST1112.

SITUATION
Some drivers have expressed the desire to deactivate this function in certain situations. This can be done manually via the Automatic Start/Stop function button with the LED switched on, indicating that the start/stop function is deactivated.

However, by default, the Automatic Start/Stop function is reactivated each time the engine is started.

At the request of an owner, it is possible to modify this default logic to "Last user mode."

With this logic, the current MSA's activated or deactivated setting is stored and used on the next trip.

Note: All new BMW M models have the "Last user mode" as the default setting from production.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2013, 12:50 AM
Wolfex Wolfex is offline
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ASS Function....

For the most part the ASS is pretty good on my X1. It starts rough (shakes the car) about one out of ten starts. All the other starts are smooth. However with this heat wave in LA I noticed that with the AC on it starts real rough almost jarring two out of three starts.


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