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F06 Gran Coupe (2013 - Current)
BMW's entrance into the 4 door coupe segment to go head to head with the Audi A7 and MB CLS

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  #1  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:21 AM
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640i GC drivers: Can your car spin the wheels loose (burnout) from a standstill?

I'm curious of this as I recently drove a 640i GC during the BMW "Ultimate Drive" Event, and loved the car of course. It had every single option, including M Sport and SAT (I'm sure suspension options ticked as well). However, unlike my 535i M Sport with SAT it COULD NOT spin the wheels loose at all, save for small squeals if I was making a turn out of a stop. My 535i can practically roast 'em from a standstill like a hillbilly in a muscle car, or fishtail sideways from a stop at a turn, however I found the 640i GC incapable of these things.

I had a few theories: The F10 is lighter therefore can roast the rears easier along with the softer suspension making it so it hooks less (though soft suspensions usually help with hooking I thought), or the 640i GC is designed to "suck to" the ground more so it's by design to not spend time spinning, or the fact that this car was getting the crap beat out of it all day and was probably heat soaked to hell.

I also felt that it didn't really just "go" when I hit the gas like my 535i, it kind of lagged initially, then took off after some RPM rising. Unlike my 535i which responds immediately, spins the wheels loose, gains traction, then goes.

This is all talking about being in Sport + Mode, btw. Any feedback would be appreciated as I educate myself on the 640i's characteristics more-so after finally driving one.
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Last edited by K-A; 06-19-2013 at 04:41 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2013, 10:54 AM
R1nZX R1nZX is offline
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Mine only has a couple hundred miles, so I won't be trying that until it's a bit more broken in, but as good as the inline six engine is, we're talking about a heavy car, so it wouldn't surprise me if it can't spin the wheels from a stop. I have no complaints about power in sport mode, though. I would have loved to have the V-8, but as good as the six is I couldn't justify the extra 10 grand.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:55 PM
Bond5M5 Bond5M5 is offline
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Were you thinking about this:
Plenty of wheel spin for 640i Gran Coupe going either uphill or downhill with magnificent sound while doing it.
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2013, 02:37 PM
Bond5M5 Bond5M5 is offline
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Or this:
Trying to accelerate from standstill in D and having rear wheels spinning like it was M6 or something :-)
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:10 PM
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Ah, good to see those two vids. I guess the car must have been heatsoaked and just overly abused for the day. I had it in Sport +, DS, all that, and I couldn't generate any spin. I would understand if it doesn't roast 'em like a lighter F10 can, but it was odd to me that it couldn't at all.

Good to know that seemingly isn't the case.
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  #6  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:51 PM
540gone 540gone is offline
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Let's see .........

When comparing your "hillbilly muscle car" 535i to a 640iGC.... first a few numbers.

According to BMW, the 535i weighs 4090 lbs and the 640iGC comes in at 4191 lbs, a 2.5% disadvantage. Comparing F/R balance, the 640iGC is more perfectly balanced at 49.8% on the rear giving it 80 lbs more static load (traction) assuming weight transfer under acceleration is the same (since they are on identical platforms & wheelbase length).

The 640iGC has 330 ft/lb of torque, a 30 ft/lb or 10% advantage to the 535i, and it is torque that matters when moving off from a stop. Oh, and a 15 hp (or 5%) advantage vs. the 535i. Taken together, this is arguably why BMW claims a 0-60 time of 5.4 sec for the 640iGC vs. 5.7 for the "muscle car" which you describe.

All of this is apples to apples, which of course in the real world is never the case. Other considerations with far more real world variability are the type of road surface material (asphalt vs. concrete), it's condition (smooth vs. rough), and temperature, all of which render vastly different static coefficients of friction. Oh, and then there are tires - brand, type, condition, age, temperature again, and then there's inflation pressure. Then there's the issue of how invasive (or not) the traction control settings are.

I think you get the picture - conditions vary a lot more than a few ft/lb or hp, but on a numbers basis alone, the 640iGc is faster.

As to the comment about a 650 from another poster, yes it has a lot more power, and in a 60-130 run, it would be the unquestioned winner. At lower speeds and around town however, the rear axle ratio difference (3.23 for the 640 vs. 2.81 for the 650) coupled with the extra 240lbs the 650 carries, and the fact that the 640 makes peak torque @ 1300 rpm vs. 2000 for the V8, makes the 640 feel a good bit quicker than you might think.

BUT, both are simply very well built "sport sedans". When I want to have fun and go fast, it's my M3 that comes out. Nonetheless, I really look forward to picking up my wife's new 640iGC in Munich this fall.

Cheers
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2013, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 540gone View Post
Let's see .........

When comparing your "hillbilly muscle car" 535i to a 640iGC.... first a few numbers.

According to BMW, the 535i weighs 4090 lbs and the 640iGC comes in at 4191 lbs, a 2.5% disadvantage. Comparing F/R balance, the 640iGC is more perfectly balanced at 49.8% on the rear giving it 80 lbs more static load (traction) assuming weight transfer under acceleration is the same (since they are on identical platforms & wheelbase length).

The 640iGC has 330 ft/lb of torque, a 30 ft/lb or 10% advantage to the 535i, and it is torque that matters when moving off from a stop. Oh, and a 15 hp (or 5%) advantage vs. the 535i. Taken together, this is arguably why BMW claims a 0-60 time of 5.4 sec for the 640iGC vs. 5.7 for the "muscle car" which you describe.

All of this is apples to apples, which of course in the real world is never the case. Other considerations with far more real world variability are the type of road surface material (asphalt vs. concrete), it's condition (smooth vs. rough), and temperature, all of which render vastly different static coefficients of friction. Oh, and then there are tires - brand, type, condition, age, temperature again, and then there's inflation pressure. Then there's the issue of how invasive (or not) the traction control settings are.

I think you get the picture - conditions vary a lot more than a few ft/lb or hp, but on a numbers basis alone, the 640iGc is faster.

As to the comment about a 650 from another poster, yes it has a lot more power, and in a 60-130 run, it would be the unquestioned winner. At lower speeds and around town however, the rear axle ratio difference (3.23 for the 640 vs. 2.81 for the 650) coupled with the extra 240lbs the 650 carries, and the fact that the 640 makes peak torque @ 1300 rpm vs. 2000 for the V8, makes the 640 feel a good bit quicker than you might think.

BUT, both are simply very well built "sport sedans". When I want to have fun and go fast, it's my M3 that comes out. Nonetheless, I really look forward to picking up my wife's new 640iGC in Munich this fall.

Cheers
Thanks for the condescending tone as it's always such an appreciated and scarce trait on the internet. I didn't call the 535i a "Muscle Car", I said mine can spin the wheels loose something akin to a "hillbilly muscle car". Maybe it's my muscle-car roots peeking out but I've had too much fun doing so in my 5er and was a little surprised I couldn't do it in the 640i.

I understand the variables. On the same roads I took the GC on which couldn't break the wheels loose, I could in my 5er. Also, I understand the 640i's power advantage but the weight more than eats it up as independent magazine tests have shown the 640i getting slightly slower 0-60, 1/4 miles times and lower trap speeds than the 535i (I wouldn't put as much weight into BMW's numbers as they're typically inaccurate and have to reflect some sort of marketing, i.e a 5"35"i couldn't show a faster time than a 6"40"i, etc.).

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
"From a stop, this 6-series sedan is slightly slower than the latest 5-series six-cylinder. Acceleration to 60 mph takes 5.6 seconds versus 5.4 seconds in the 5"

That is why I was wondering about what could be making it break loose less than a 535i. I ask this as someone who finds the 640i GC of interest as well.
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Last edited by K-A; 06-19-2013 at 06:16 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2013, 06:54 PM
540gone 540gone is offline
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You're welcome.

Figured I was just wasting my time focusing on factual differences.

Enjoy "spinning your wheels loose" just make sure the lug nuts are tight
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2013, 08:46 PM
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The main problem with N55 acceleration is that from a standstill there is a really long delay before all the throttle input is calculated and reacted to. Getting a tune will solve this problem, I recommend checking out Burger Tuning.
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by itschase View Post
The main problem with N55 acceleration is that from a standstill there is a really long delay before all the throttle input is calculated and reacted to. Getting a tune will solve this problem, I recommend checking out Burger Tuning.
I don't seem to have that problem with my car in Sport +, but do in Sport as it happened just today, only when going off the line though, not while already rolling. It seems a problem with all BMW's really as a member here just reported after driving a 650i GC he felt more of a "lag delay, wind up, then take off" effect then with his own 535i which would just take right off.

With the 640i GC I felt exactly what you describe in Sport + though. Which was another curiosity factor for me.
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2013, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I don't seem to have that problem with my car in Sport +, but do in Sport as it happened just today, only when going off the line though, not while already rolling. It seems a problem with all BMW's really as a member here just reported after driving a 650i GC he felt more of a "lag delay, wind up, then take off" effect then with his own 535i which would just take right off.

With the 640i GC I felt exactly what you describe in Sport + though. Which was another curiosity factor for me.
I used to have the 2012 version of your car and got rid of it before the global update that was meant to address the lag issue, so I admit my information may be a tad outdated. Coming from a 750, my 650 GC feels like lightning from a standstill. In fact - I drive semi-conservatively most of the time and yet still have managed to max out at 12mpg city in the 1000 miles I've clocked in this car. I would describe the throttle response as 'hyper' but I have never owned anything faster so it's subjective. Either way, your engine is capable of major power if you ever choose to go aftermarket.
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  #12  
Old 06-30-2013, 03:53 AM
Bond5M5 Bond5M5 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Thanks for the condescending tone as it's always such an appreciated and scarce trait on the internet. I didn't call the 535i a "Muscle Car", I said mine can spin the wheels loose something akin to a "hillbilly muscle car". Maybe it's my muscle-car roots peeking out but I've had too much fun doing so in my 5er and was a little surprised I couldn't do it in the 640i.

I understand the variables. On the same roads I took the GC on which couldn't break the wheels loose, I could in my 5er. Also, I understand the 640i's power advantage but the weight more than eats it up as independent magazine tests have shown the 640i getting slightly slower 0-60, 1/4 miles times and lower trap speeds than the 535i (I wouldn't put as much weight into BMW's numbers as they're typically inaccurate and have to reflect some sort of marketing, i.e a 5"35"i couldn't show a faster time than a 6"40"i, etc.).

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
"From a stop, this 6-series sedan is slightly slower than the latest 5-series six-cylinder. Acceleration to 60 mph takes 5.6 seconds versus 5.4 seconds in the 5"

That is why I was wondering about what could be making it break loose less than a 535i. I ask this as someone who finds the 640i GC of interest as well.
Here they have tested 640i GC, 0-60: 5.3 Seconds and 1/4 Mile: 13.75 Seconds @ 103 MPH which despite its weight is quicker than 535i.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n-coupe-video/
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2013, 04:06 AM
Bond5M5 Bond5M5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Thanks for the condescending tone as it's always such an appreciated and scarce trait on the internet. I didn't call the 535i a "Muscle Car", I said mine can spin the wheels loose something akin to a "hillbilly muscle car". Maybe it's my muscle-car roots peeking out but I've had too much fun doing so in my 5er and was a little surprised I couldn't do it in the 640i.

I understand the variables. On the same roads I took the GC on which couldn't break the wheels loose, I could in my 5er. Also, I understand the 640i's power advantage but the weight more than eats it up as independent magazine tests have shown the 640i getting slightly slower 0-60, 1/4 miles times and lower trap speeds than the 535i (I wouldn't put as much weight into BMW's numbers as they're typically inaccurate and have to reflect some sort of marketing, i.e a 5"35"i couldn't show a faster time than a 6"40"i, etc.).

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
"From a stop, this 6-series sedan is slightly slower than the latest 5-series six-cylinder. Acceleration to 60 mph takes 5.6 seconds versus 5.4 seconds in the 5"

That is why I was wondering about what could be making it break loose less than a 535i. I ask this as someone who finds the 640i GC of interest as well.
When Car and Driver were testing 535i they achieved 0-60 in 5.7 Seconds and for 1/4 Mile it was 14.2 Seconds @ 101 MPH. Don't know why they were saying differently in the article you have quoted.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2013, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond5M5 View Post
When Car and Driver were testing 535i they achieved 0-60 in 5.7 Seconds and for 1/4 Mile it was 14.2 Seconds @ 101 MPH. Don't know why they were saying differently in the article you have quoted.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review
5.7 seconds doesn't sound right with a 14.2 1/4 with 101 MPH. The car would have to have a 0-60 of 5.4 more-so to achieve that time. Maybe a misprint on that specific link or something.

Interesting and good to see the TTAC get such a quick time from the 6GC. They haven't tested a 2013 535i have they? (disregard if they tested an earlier F10 as too many issues plagued those which were worked out by 2013 yielding in cars that seem even quicker due to transmission fixes and suspension geometry improvements on the M Sport cars).

I gotta say my 535i "feels" slightly quicker than that 640i GC I drove however a big reason to that may be because that car was getting beaten on all day long. Even so, I'd say the cars felt more similar in takeoff than anything. The biggest difference in that regard was the fact that I couldn't get the wheels loose in the GC and how the tranny felt like it had more lag in terms of register WOT from idle.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:11 AM
Bond5M5 Bond5M5 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
5.7 seconds doesn't sound right with a 14.2 1/4 with 101 MPH. The car would have to have a 0-60 of 5.4 more-so to achieve that time. Maybe a misprint on that specific link or something.

Interesting and good to see the TTAC get such a quick time from the 6GC. They haven't tested a 2013 535i have they? (disregard if they tested an earlier F10 as too many issues plagued those which were worked out by 2013 yielding in cars that seem even quicker due to transmission fixes and suspension geometry improvements on the M Sport cars).

I gotta say my 535i "feels" slightly quicker than that 640i GC I drove however a big reason to that may be because that car was getting beaten on all day long. Even so, I'd say the cars felt more similar in takeoff than anything. The biggest difference in that regard was the fact that I couldn't get the wheels loose in the GC and how the tranny felt like it had more lag in terms of register WOT from idle.
Why do you think 5.7 seconds isn't right? BMW says 535i time 0-100km/h (62 mph) is 5.9 seconds (with Auto) and for 640i GC 0-100km/h (62 mph) is 5.4 seconds. The reason you felt that way with that particular 640i GC is most probably because of extra weight put on that car through additional equipment. For example, german Auto Motor und Sport has tested 640i GC which on test had 1942 kg (official is 1825 kg) while on the same time M6 GC they also tested had on test 1960 kg (official is 1950 kg). When you put additional 117 kg on 640i GC you have to feel it. It makes me wonder which particular extra equipment contributed the most to those extra 117 kg.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:20 AM
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It does seem odd they'd quote two different numbers. One of them is a misprint clearly. 5.7 seems slow for that quarter mile time and trap speed, as well BMW's official numbers are always way off the mark (think underrated just like their advertised powerplant figures). This test got a 535i at 5.5 second with a 14.0 1/4 but just under a 100 MPH trap speed ( http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...5i_first_test/ ). Idk, maybe it makes sense. One has to wonder if these testers have cars with SAT, as I'm sure it'd shave off a bit from those times.

Yeah it was a completely loaded 640i GC with M Sport, that had been driven and beaten on all day. Certainly couldn't help it feel optimal I'm sure.
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2013, 07:31 AM
Bond5M5 Bond5M5 is offline
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As for the additional weight, I think Active Anti Roll Bars add the most. That's probably the reason why neither M5 nor M6 have them. Most likely guys at M came to the conclusion that extra weight added would negate any advantage those would add to the car.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:09 AM
Bond5M5 Bond5M5 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
5.7 seconds doesn't sound right with a 14.2 1/4 with 101 MPH. The car would have to have a 0-60 of 5.4 more-so to achieve that time. Maybe a misprint on that specific link or something.

Interesting and good to see the TTAC get such a quick time from the 6GC. They haven't tested a 2013 535i have they? (disregard if they tested an earlier F10 as too many issues plagued those which were worked out by 2013 yielding in cars that seem even quicker due to transmission fixes and suspension geometry improvements on the M Sport cars).

I gotta say my 535i "feels" slightly quicker than that 640i GC I drove however a big reason to that may be because that car was getting beaten on all day long. Even so, I'd say the cars felt more similar in takeoff than anything. The biggest difference in that regard was the fact that I couldn't get the wheels loose in the GC and how the tranny felt like it had more lag in terms of register WOT from idle.
On the bimmerpost.com one member that owns both 2012 535i M Sport and 640i GC has commented "...I think you will surpised how good the 640i is when you test drive it. I used to think that the 535 is the same as 640 but I was wrong since yesterday I drove my old 535 again and I was shocked how my 640i felt faster and more responsive."

http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=859084
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  #19  
Old 07-04-2013, 05:28 PM
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640i GC drivers: Can your car spin the wheels loose (burnout) from a standstill?

Just curious, when you drove the 640i at the UDE, was it a red vermillion model? If it was, did you know that's an x-Drive?


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  #20  
Old 07-04-2013, 06:22 PM
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Re: 640i GC drivers: Can your car spin the wheels loose (burnout) from a standstill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyjd View Post
Just curious, when you drove the 640i at the UDE, was it a red vermillion model? If it was, did you know that's an x-Drive?


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What?! That would answer everything! Why would they bring an XDrive to the West Coast though? It was that kind of copper-metallic color, not sure if that's red vermillion? It did have NJ plates on it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:39 PM
timmyjd timmyjd is offline
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640i GC drivers: Can your car spin the wheels loose (burnout) from a standstill?

NJ plates, red vermillion, yep. 2013 640i x-Drive. Drove it last week.


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  #22  
Old 07-04-2013, 07:41 PM
timmyjd timmyjd is offline
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640i GC drivers: Can your car spin the wheels loose (burnout) from a standstill?

The UDE is run by a contracted company not the dealers. They have an inventory of vehicles they travel with, but sometimes will supplement with some stock vehicles from the host dealer depending on demand and dealer inventory.


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  #23  
Old 07-04-2013, 07:46 PM
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Re: 640i GC drivers: Can your car spin the wheels loose (burnout) from a standstill?

Looks like we finally got our answer! I wish I checked the badges to verify but it seems like it all ads up now.
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