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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #1  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:36 AM
alichak alichak is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW X3 2004 2.5i
battery internal drainage?

hi there,

As I'm on my never ending journey to fix the broken BMW X3 I just bought, I'm trying to narrow down the list of the list of suspicious leakages that drains the battery. so far I figure out the car itself does not have any major drain (as I can read around 30-35 milliamps of current when the car sleeps, which seems normal for an X3 E83) yet overnight, battery voltage was dropped from 12.56 to 12.13 in the morning.

I have a feeling that battery MIGHT have a serious internal energy leakage.

anyone had similar experience? battery is just 2 years old and cold crank test showed a good battery in 3 different auto part dealers, and as long as it is charged, it can easily turn the car on. yet overnight, it drains and as I mentioned, it most likely has nothing to do with the car's parasitic leakage.....

any ideas?

thanks,
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:11 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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What brand battery?

That's not a lot of drop off over night
12-8 is a lot 12-12 is normal
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:15 AM
alichak alichak is offline
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battery is exide classic. dropping from 12.56 (almost full capacity) to 12.13 (almost half capacity) is HUGE. it mean battery lost almost half of its charge overnight.
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:44 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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half of 12vDc is 6vDC
you lost 4/tenths of a volt
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:44 AM
joylove joylove is offline
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Early cars the TCU would try to phone home in the middle of the night, connect with the BT handset in the house and hang there until morning, draining the vehicle battery. Try unplugging the TCU.
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:45 AM
alichak alichak is offline
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that's not how a battery works. an almost dead battery should, and would, show around 12 volts on open circuit.
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  #7  
Old 07-23-2013, 01:31 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alichak View Post
that's not how a battery works. an almost dead battery should, and would, show around 12 volts on open circuit.
That is right.

From a battery trade source:

Battery Voltage and State of Charge:

12.68v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%

(NOTE: these readings are at 80 degrees F. Battery voltage readings will drop with temperature roughly 0.01 volts for every 10 degrees F.)
(At 30 degrees F. a fully charged battery will measure about 12.588 volts, and at zero degrees F it will measure about 12.516 volts.)

As I understand it, battery testing is a very inexact science.
Even with the most sophisticated and expensive test equipment.
With the hand-held ones that autoparts stores use, they may accurately catch some types of battery failure, but not all.
They can also give false negatives.

It's quite possible that with your battery some plate deposits have fallen down to the bottom and caused a short.
With the battery fully charged when you drive to the autoparts store, they won't catch that.
If you have had more than a couple of jump starts on that battery because of full discharge events, it is not going to be in good shape internally.
Some plates could be twisted, or separators dissolved.

If it has removable caps, you could measure each cell with a multimeter to confirm.
(Yes, you can just stick the probes carefully in the electrolyte to see how far off one cell is from 2.1v)

A lot of people say that Johnson Controls batteries are better than Exides, but of course there are always some that swear by Exides.
When Exide lost the contract to supply Walmart a few years back, they soon after declared bankruptcy.
(I think they are still now in the process of restructuring.)
Don't know if that contract change was based on performance or just low bid.
Prior to that, at some point BMW dealers received their replacement batteries from Exide, but that didn't last long.
They went back to East Penn. Mfg. and/or JCI from what I understand.

Personally, I would always go with either a JCI or an East Penn. (Deka) battery, but also make sure that it was a fresh one (mfg. date no older that 2 mos.)
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  #8  
Old 07-23-2013, 04:11 PM
alichak alichak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
That is right.

From a battery trade source:

Battery Voltage and State of Charge:

12.68v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%

(NOTE: these readings are at 80 degrees F. Battery voltage readings will drop with temperature roughly 0.01 volts for every 10 degrees F.)
(At 30 degrees F. a fully charged battery will measure about 12.588 volts, and at zero degrees F it will measure about 12.516 volts.)

As I understand it, battery testing is a very inexact science.
Even with the most sophisticated and expensive test equipment.
With the hand-held ones that autoparts stores use, they may accurately catch some types of battery failure, but not all.
They can also give false negatives.

It's quite possible that with your battery some plate deposits have fallen down to the bottom and caused a short.
With the battery fully charged when you drive to the autoparts store, they won't catch that.
If you have had more than a couple of jump starts on that battery because of full discharge events, it is not going to be in good shape internally.
Some plates could be twisted, or separators dissolved.

If it has removable caps, you could measure each cell with a multimeter to confirm.
(Yes, you can just stick the probes carefully in the electrolyte to see how far off one cell is from 2.1v)

A lot of people say that Johnson Controls batteries are better than Exides, but of course there are always some that swear by Exides.
When Exide lost the contract to supply Walmart a few years back, they soon after declared bankruptcy.
(I think they are still now in the process of restructuring.)
Don't know if that contract change was based on performance or just low bid.
Prior to that, at some point BMW dealers received their replacement batteries from Exide, but that didn't last long.
They went back to East Penn. Mfg. and/or JCI from what I understand.

Personally, I would always go with either a JCI or an East Penn. (Deka) battery, but also make sure that it was a fresh one (mfg. date no older that 2 mos.)
thanks for the info! yeah I think car is fine and something is wrong with the battery than drains it internally. will go to Zimbrick BMW tomorrow and I'll get back to you and post the results.
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  #9  
Old 07-23-2013, 05:13 PM
joylove joylove is offline
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BMW use Bosch and GM use AC Delco Premiums. Both are very good. I got a Duracell from Batteries Plus which I'm happy with.
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  #10  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:01 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
BMW use Bosch and GM use AC Delco Premiums. Both are very good. I got a Duracell from Batteries Plus which I'm happy with.
Bosch doesn't actually make auto batteries, and nor does AC Delco. (Their battery plant was sold to Johnson Controls many years ago.)

A Bosch-branded battery could be made by Exide, or by Johnson Controls.
But the Bosch corporation acts as a distributor of the battery, in a similar way to how Interstate operates.

GM still owns the AC Delco brand name, so that name will be on any battery they stock wherever it comes from.

Don't know who manufactures Duracell auto batteries.
I see this is quite a recent change for Batteries Plus as their house-brand always seemed to be Werker.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/bat...171257601.html

The point is ..... brand allegiance has really become a bit meaningless.
You have to take a guess how good a battery is going to be based on what you can find out about who made it.
That sometimes comes down to comparing the shape and features of the case, handles and caps, etc. with an actual known brand (not just a name brand).
Don't rely on the sales clerk telling you. They either don't know, don't care or don't want to let on.

Same thing has happened with lots of other auto parts and consumer products in general.
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  #11  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:02 AM
usaret usaret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
Bosch doesn't actually make auto batteries, and nor does AC Delco. (Their battery plant was sold to Johnson Controls many years ago.)

A Bosch-branded battery could be made by Exide, or by Johnson Controls.
But the Bosch corporation acts as a distributor of the battery, in a similar way to how Interstate operates.

GM still owns the AC Delco brand name, so that name will be on any battery they stock wherever it comes from.

Don't know who manufactures Duracell auto batteries.
I see this is quite a recent change for Batteries Plus as their house-brand always seemed to be Werker.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/bat...171257601.html

The point is ..... brand allegiance has really become a bit meaningless.
You have to take a guess how good a battery is going to be based on what you can find out about who made it.
That sometimes comes down to comparing the shape and features of the case, handles and caps, etc. with an actual known brand (not just a name brand).
Don't rely on the sales clerk telling you. They either don't know, don't care or don't want to let on.

Same thing has happened with lots of other auto parts and consumer products in general.
I agree 100%. And the last time I looked all Walmart batteries were made by Johnson Controls as well. If I weren't going AGM at replacement time my new battery would be an H8 from Walmart.
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  #12  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:49 PM
jerry325 jerry325 is offline
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Posts: 57
Mein Auto: 2006 X3 Blue & silv.325ci
Had to laugh at this one since I just had my battery replaced for the third time in under four years last night. The first replaced the original battery in my 06. The next two were covered under warranty by a national auto chain. Was wondering if the battery they produce is just that poor of a quality as they bench tested today and found the second was indeed bad and covered under warranty. All of the online reviews showed that they had one of the best batteries, but am beginning to doubt. BTW, the dealer wanted over $300 to replace over the weekend since it died after ten minutes of the flashers being on. What is interesting is the dealer's pricing for replacement tires was only about $20/tire higher than buying through a board sponsor and considering freight, mounting and balancing. Shows the dealer can be a good source if you shop around.
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:33 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
Under the lift arms
Location: Under the lift arms
 
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Mein Auto: E39 540, E36 328is, E83x3
I dont mess with anything other then Interstate megatrons

80-100$ every time... Once and done though
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"Burning 2nd is a lot like vitamin tonic. Overly harsh, tastes like crap, but somewhere in all that there's good intent......just have to learn to read between the lines, actually you have to squint really hard to see the good, but its there somewhere"

15486372<-----
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:14 AM
joylove joylove is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
Bosch doesn't actually make auto batteries, and nor does AC Delco. (Their battery plant was sold to Johnson Controls many years ago.)

A Bosch-branded battery could be made by Exide, or by Johnson Controls.
But the Bosch corporation acts as a distributor of the battery, in a similar way to how Interstate operates.

GM still owns the AC Delco brand name, so that name will be on any battery they stock wherever it comes from.

Don't know who manufactures Duracell auto batteries.
I see this is quite a recent change for Batteries Plus as their house-brand always seemed to be Werker.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/bat...171257601.html

The point is ..... brand allegiance has really become a bit meaningless.
You have to take a guess how good a battery is going to be based on what you can find out about who made it.
That sometimes comes down to comparing the shape and features of the case, handles and caps, etc. with an actual known brand (not just a name brand).
Don't rely on the sales clerk telling you. They either don't know, don't care or don't want to let on.

Same thing has happened with lots of other auto parts and consumer products in general.
This is very interesting and I didn't know this. However there is more to a product than the factory it came out of. IT is quite possible to have a filter system that tests each battery and grades them for different brand names.
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:36 AM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
IT is quite possible to have a filter system that tests each battery and grades them for different brand names.
Agreed.

Even though Johnson Controls has an overall good reputation for auto. batteries, I wouldn't be surprised if the quality control on some of the brand labels varies according to the contract value.

On further googling, I see that the Duracell auto. battery is made by East Penn. Mfg.
As that is the smallest of the 3 battery producers, and P&G is not a company to be trifled with, I bet its quality is up there with East Penn's other brands.

http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=1491
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  #16  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:01 PM
usaret usaret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
Agreed.

Even though Johnson Controls has an overall good reputation for auto. batteries, I wouldn't be surprised if the quality control on some of the brand labels varies according to the contract value.

On further googling, I see that the Duracell auto. battery is made by East Penn. Mfg.
As that is the smallest of the 3 battery producers, and P&G is not a company to be trifled with, I bet its quality is up there with East Penn's other brands.

http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=1491
A Deka 9AGM49 will be my next battery.

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