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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 07-18-2013, 06:53 PM
BMR_LVR's Avatar
BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Reminder on watching the coolant temp

Hey guys. Just a friendly reminder to keep an eye on your cooling system even if it is properly maintained. I did a complete coolant system overhaul exactly 75K ago. My hope was to make it to 100K and then repeat the overhaul.

Yesterday I was driving in the city with the A/C on with the outside temp at about 95 degrees. I glanced down and saw the coolant temp gauge start to creep up between ½ and ¾. I turned the A/C off and kept a close eye on it. I had to stop for a few minutes. I quickly confirmed that the aux fan was operating. After cutting it off, I spun the fan. It spun too freely. When I cranked it back up; it was just below ¾ from heat soak. I suspected it would drop once back at speed. Got back on the highway and it dropped back down to ½. Turned the A/C on and it still held ½. Prime suspect: the fan clutch.

Got home and popped the hood with A/C on. The fan was turning too slowly for my liking. For the first time ever, I did the newspaper trick. I loosely rolled 2 sections of the newspaper up and gently stuck it in the fan. Obviously, it should have shredded the newspaper, but instead, it easily stopped the fan. Bad fan clutch confirmed.

Went to RMeuropean.com and ordered a Behr (oem) fan clutch for $111.89. I sprang for the $22.00 extra for overnight PM service because I didn’t want to keep driving the wife’s Kia and her have to drive the gas sucking Suburban. Fan clutch arrived at 6:00 p.m. I put it in in 20 minutes at a relaxed pace.

No more temps above ½, even sitting at idle with the A/C on
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Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2013, 11:26 PM
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_Ethrty-Andy_ _Ethrty-Andy_ is offline
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good stuff, i must remember to order one for the V12, i wonder if its the same as M20/M50 etc
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2013, 08:08 AM
upallnight upallnight is offline
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I need to get one for my Ford Ranger. When I'm towing the boat with the AC on during a hot day, the temp creeps pass the normal position.
  #4  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:21 AM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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A busted fan clutch that "causes" overheating, which is solved upon changing it, is a known false positive for the E34's cooling system. You most certainly still have a problem.

With the auxiliary electric fan working, and even with the car at neutral with the engine held at high idle rpm, with the a/c on, even after a hard drive, and with the fan clutch removed, yes removed, at during a hot day, you should not be running to 3/4. Your temp gauge should stop at a needle's width past 12 oclock, which is fine for the engine continuously. With the clutch fan installed and working as advertised, you would be at 12 oclock or a needle's width below that, in the above scenario.

BMW designed the secondary cooling system very well. It is a backup that works as well as the primary cooling system. This is even with the fan clutch removed or fully busted, and the ac working at full speed.

There is most likely something wrong with your aux fan and/or the aux fan's coolant temperature sensor. That is usually the case. Seeing if it runs by switching on your ac is not the way to test it - the ac runs the fan at low speed alone and is not temperature dependant. The auxiliary electric fan works for both the air conditioning system AND the engine's cooling system.

Your formerly fine running fan clutch was compensating for this problem. When it failed, you began to overheat. Your new fan clutch is still compensating for it. You still have an issue and you should track it down.

Aux fan's coolant temperature sensor (90% probability)

Do the jump test over here to see if it runs at both low and high speeds.

http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/page_20.htm

If it doesn't, then the aux fan, its 2 fuses and its relay all need to be individually tested (the problem is usually the relay). Follow the advice on the page to test the sub components.

If the jump test is successful at both speeds, then you'll need to test the aux fan's coolant temperature sensor. It is part #10 in this diagram :

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=17&fg=05

If you have never replaced this sensor, considering its importance to the engine's cooling system, that you've got a high mileage car, that a new oem one only costs under $30 shipped and that its real simple to replace it, and that this is your daily driver that you need to count on implicitly 24/7, I would recommend that you change it even if it ultimately tests fine. Staying ahead of the breakdown curve is the name of the game for E34s and other old BMWs.

Several months back, there was a lass who showed up here with a transmission problem. In the course of discussing it, she mentioned that she had previously had a constantly overheating engine, which many mechs failed to fix at great expense, until she paid an online mechanic $20 who told her to change the fan clutch and it solved the problem immediately.

The thing is, the car is NOT supposed to overheat if the fan clutch is busted, if everything else works fine. If the fan clutch solves your overheating problem, your aux fan's cooling system almost certainly needs to be looked at for sure.

Not the aux fan (10% probability)

If you've tested the aux fan and it's cooling sensor, and all is in order, then something else is wrong. Its probably a coolant flow problem, caused by clogged hoses, a clogged radiator, a busted water pump or a tricky thermostat, or low coolant levels.

If I had to bet on something in this low probability box, I would probably bet on the thermostat. Next in line would be the water pump. Finally would be rust buildup in the coolant passages of the engine, which can only be easily removed with a coolant flush that has chelating agents in it, most cheaply done with Prestone's super flush or more expensively done with Cummin's Restore Plus (good for 2 applications but costs 2.5 times more at $45).



Mario

p.s Holding the car at high idle rpm in neutral for as long as you like, with the a/c system on, and the car not running higher than 1 needle's width above 12oclock if it the gauge moves at all, all this done at while at high noon on a hot day, is the best way to test if your cooling system is bulletproof.
  #5  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:27 AM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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Andy, the M20 and M50 engines have different fan clutches. The M20's fan clutch is slightly smaller - the blades would hit the shroud if you use an M50 fan clutch. The E32's fan clutch (or was it E38? do double check elsewhere) is a tested upgrade for the M20 engine's fan clutch, sized in between the M20 and the M50. Pushes more air than the stock M20 clutch and the fan's blades are compatible.
  #6  
Old 07-21-2013, 09:10 AM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamij View Post
A busted fan clutch that "causes" overheating, which is solved upon changing it, is a known false positive for the E34's cooling system. You most certainly still have a problem.

With the auxiliary electric fan working, and even with the car at neutral with the engine held at high idle rpm, with the a/c on, even after a hard drive, and with the fan clutch removed, yes removed, at during a hot day, you should not be running to 3/4. Your temp gauge should stop at a needle's width past 12 oclock, which is fine for the engine continuously. With the clutch fan installed and working as advertised, you would be at 12 oclock or a needle's width below that, in the above scenario.


p.s Holding the car at high idle rpm in neutral for as long as you like, with the a/c system on, and the car not running higher than 1 needle's width above 12oclock if it the gauge moves at all, all this done at while at high noon on a hot day, is the best way to test if your cooling system is bulletproof.


You have posted a couple of false notions there...

The cooling system absolutely was not designed to run without the fan clutch. This is another bobbybagodonuts experiment The aux fan is simply not capable of keeping the car cool with the AC on it hot weather. There is a reason the engine fan is there. The aux fan is just that auxilliary, and will help but the car was not designed to be cooled soley by this method regardless what worked in your back yard.

Running at an elevated idle is a good way to cool the engine. It spins the fan and waterpump at higher rpm providing better circulation of both air and water through and engine under the lightest possible load. Your test procedure, even with the engine fan disabled, is flawed at best, as are some of your conclusions.

My car is currently doing some overheating. The fan clutch is new, and I can hear it working. The aux fan runs on low when the AC is switched on. On your 90% certainty I have ordered a new fan switch.
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  #7  
Old 07-21-2013, 09:33 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamij View Post
A busted fan clutch that "causes" overheating, which is solved upon changing it, is a known false positive for the E34's cooling system. You most certainly still have a problem.

With the auxiliary electric fan working, and even with the car at neutral with the engine held at high idle rpm, with the a/c on, even after a hard drive, and with the fan clutch removed, yes removed, at during a hot day, you should not be running to 3/4. Your temp gauge should stop at a needle's width past 12 oclock, which is fine for the engine continuously. With the clutch fan installed and working as advertised, you would be at 12 oclock or a needle's width below that, in the above scenario.

BMW designed the secondary cooling system very well. It is a backup that works as well as the primary cooling system. This is even with the fan clutch removed or fully busted, and the ac working at full speed.

There is most likely something wrong with your aux fan and/or the aux fan's coolant temperature sensor. That is usually the case. Seeing if it runs by switching on your ac is not the way to test it - the ac runs the fan at low speed alone and is not temperature dependant. The auxiliary electric fan works for both the air conditioning system AND the engine's cooling system.

Your formerly fine running fan clutch was compensating for this problem. When it failed, you began to overheat. Your new fan clutch is still compensating for it. You still have an issue and you should track it down.

Aux fan's coolant temperature sensor (90% probability)

Do the jump test over here to see if it runs at both low and high speeds.

http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/page_20.htm

If it doesn't, then the aux fan, its 2 fuses and its relay all need to be individually tested (the problem is usually the relay). Follow the advice on the page to test the sub components.

If the jump test is successful at both speeds, then you'll need to test the aux fan's coolant temperature sensor. It is part #10 in this diagram :

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=17&fg=05

If you have never replaced this sensor, considering its importance to the engine's cooling system, that you've got a high mileage car, that a new oem one only costs under $30 shipped and that its real simple to replace it, and that this is your daily driver that you need to count on implicitly 24/7, I would recommend that you change it even if it ultimately tests fine. Staying ahead of the breakdown curve is the name of the game for E34s and other old BMWs.

Several months back, there was a lass who showed up here with a transmission problem. In the course of discussing it, she mentioned that she had previously had a constantly overheating engine, which many mechs failed to fix at great expense, until she paid an online mechanic $20 who told her to change the fan clutch and it solved the problem immediately.

The thing is, the car is NOT supposed to overheat if the fan clutch is busted, if everything else works fine. If the fan clutch solves your overheating problem, your aux fan's cooling system almost certainly needs to be looked at for sure.

Not the aux fan (10% probability)

If you've tested the aux fan and it's cooling sensor, and all is in order, then something else is wrong. Its probably a coolant flow problem, caused by clogged hoses, a clogged radiator, a busted water pump or a tricky thermostat, or low coolant levels.

If I had to bet on something in this low probability box, I would probably bet on the thermostat. Next in line would be the water pump. Finally would be rust buildup in the coolant passages of the engine, which can only be easily removed with a coolant flush that has chelating agents in it, most cheaply done with Prestone's super flush or more expensively done with Cummin's Restore Plus (good for 2 applications but costs 2.5 times more at $45).



Mario

p.s Holding the car at high idle rpm in neutral for as long as you like, with the a/c system on, and the car not running higher than 1 needle's width above 12oclock if it the gauge moves at all, all this done at while at high noon on a hot day, is the best way to test if your cooling system is bulletproof.
Wow Mamij ….. what ever would I do without you

Hmmmm ….. let’s see. I replaced the fan clutch and now have an engine that runs the correct temp in all conditions …. Hmmmmm …. yep, sounds like I have a serious problem here

Don’t you get it? I don’t need, nor do I want your input. My thread had no questions in it.

I normally would just not even respond, but you seem to have thrown down the gauntlet in an effort to paint me as one who doesn’t know what they are doing and who is driving a time bomb around just waiting to blow up.

First things first. 75K miles ago, I did a complete, yes, complete coolant system overhaul; including the aux fan coolant temp switch. The temp switch is operating properly. The overhaul included the radiator, metal impeller WP, t-stat, t-stat housing, belts, hoses, pulleys and probably a couple of more things that I’m forgetting, but it was complete.

I know that I don’t have a problem with the aux fan because I replaced it with a brand new one (that includes the resistor) 34K miles ago. It didn’t fail due to age. It failed due to a mechanical obstruction when a piece of mulch flew up and lodged between the blade and bracket which burned the motor out. Of course, this is something I think you would have already known given your belief of your omniscience.

I realize that you, Baggio, BurbankE34, Spirit of Bavaria, etc. etc. (which are all probably just aliases of yours anyway) feel that the fan and fan clutch are not needed and that one can run the car on the aux fan only with no problems. You are entitled to your opinion. However, I do not subscribe to this theory. I believe that the engineers at BMW were/are much smarter than you, despite your belief to the contrary.

Now, I am going to ask that you not respond to any of my future threads. I do not want or need your input. I am going to add you to my “ignore” list.

In fact, I am going to ask our moderator to lock this thread because of your history of high jacking threads and creating drama and turmoil.

Andy, please lock this thread as soon as possible.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

  #8  
Old 07-21-2013, 11:44 AM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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The post that I sent was for the general consideration of all. Your car situation merely provided the context. There is no love lost between us so I expected you to understand that intuitively. I couldn't care less if you ran into further trouble with your car. As far as I can see, you have enough money and time to fix it when it runs into trouble, so you don't need to stay ahead of the breakdown curve and don't like to think ahead, so one way or the other, your E34 will stay on the road which is what really matters to me.

You are right that the engineers are smarter than the both of us, which is why the secondary cooling system is that solid. Clearly you have not tested your auxiliary system following my post. You have also proven resistant to facts and real cross situational learning, observable over the years. Others I'm sure will hesitate to make that mistake.

I'm sure you're experienced enough to know that more than one thing can go wrong on the car at the same time. Your working fan clutch compensates for another problem that is still there. That's why I called it a false positive.....it looks like the solution, but it is not.

Your temps should not rise especially since you were moving and if the aux fan automatically ran at high speed like it should. If you feel like leaving the problem there and running the risk of something worse happening down the line at an inconvenient time, that's your choice. Just keep your eye on the temp gauge or install a digital dash temp alarm hidden in the panel under your steering wheel and you should be better prepared to react.

Again, your car is a context. Nobody cares about your hypocritical personal comments and judgments. You could have wrote in just to disagree but you chose to get personal. I was not rude to you in my post which is more than you deserve. I backed up everything I said with detailed links. If Andy locks this thread on your instructions, he will prove that the tail wags the dog, which will have consequences. This is not Chicago anymore. Considering that he runs his own company, I doubt he is that dumb.

Anyone can disagree as they wish. Its your car, drive it into the ground or dress it up all the way as you wish. But facts are facts and snide remarks and personal attacks won't change that.
  #9  
Old 07-21-2013, 12:04 PM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
You have posted a couple of false notions there...

The cooling system absolutely was not designed to run without the fan clutch. This is another bobbybagodonuts experiment The aux fan is simply not capable of keeping the car cool with the AC on it hot weather. There is a reason the engine fan is there. The aux fan is just that auxilliary, and will help but the car was not designed to be cooled soley by this method regardless what worked in your back yard.

Running at an elevated idle is a good way to cool the engine. It spins the fan and waterpump at higher rpm providing better circulation of both air and water through and engine under the lightest possible load. Your test procedure, even with the engine fan disabled, is flawed at best, as are some of your conclusions.

My car is currently doing some overheating. The fan clutch is new, and I can hear it working. The aux fan runs on low when the AC is switched on. On your 90% certainty I have ordered a new fan switch.
Hi Sled,

Please test your aux fan's coolant switch and relay in accordance with the link I've posted above. In addition to the switch, you may need to purchase a relay (which is the next thing that is wrong if the switch is fine). The switch should be purchased because its too cheap for an OEM product and too easy to change out.

There's another thing that can be done. A live wire can be spliced from the car body into the aux fan switch's high speed wire. This will cause the fan to keep spinning even after the car is shut down, which reduces heat soak. I don't think heat soak is a big deal but its such a simple and potentially useful mod so why not. The fan only runs for about 5 minutes before the system is cool enough to stop - your battery will not get drained. Most newer cars work this way anyway.

And yes, revving the engine causes the clutch fan to spin faster which cools the engine down. However, the test I mentioned above for the aux fan system is for a car *without* the clutch fan installed at all. The secondary electrical auxiliary fan's cooling system is well up to the mark of keeping the car within limits. At worst, your temp will climb to a needle's width above 12 oclock, which is still fine.

I maintain my position that you can run the car at high rev, at idle, after a very hard drive, on a hot summer's day, with the ac running fine, if your aux fan and the secondary cooling circuits are working fine. Without the fan clutch installed. It is that well designed.

This applies to both the 7 or 11 blade curved auxiliary electric fan that came with the M50 E34s as well as the 5 blade straight blade type that came with the m20 cars. The curved blades are quieter though.

My recommendations for a cooling system upgrade, done during an overhaul :

1. Bmw composite impeller water pump. $120 at turner motosports.
2. 72 degree thermostat. Warm up time from cold is practically the same as stock thermostats. $10-$15.
3. 1.4 bar radiator cap, which came on the M20 cars but which fit the M50. This is lower than the 2.0 bar cap on the M50 engines. Boilover protection happens at lower pressures but well within specs, and places less stress on the cooling system during overheats. New bmws have a similar bar or lower rad cap as well. $10.
4. New auxiliary fan coolant temperature sensor. $30
5. New bleed screw.
6. Radiator does not need to be changed if it passes a pressure test successfully.
7. Engine should be flushed with chelating agent compounds during a cooling system overhaul. $15-$20 for Prestone's super flush.
8. A **coolant friendly** no-slicate HG in a bottle product such as K-seal should be added to the system during an overhaul, for that added little bit of protection for minor cracks or tears in the HG or block. Nice bit of insurance for just $20.
9. New bleed screw. $5.

All the stuff listed above should be purchased oem or bmw or specified brands.

Last edited by Mamij; 07-21-2013 at 12:07 PM.
  #10  
Old 07-21-2013, 12:14 PM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
You have posted a couple of false notions there...

The cooling system absolutely was not designed to run without the fan clutch. This is another bobbybagodonuts experiment The aux fan is simply not capable of keeping the car cool with the AC on it hot weather. There is a reason the engine fan is there. The aux fan is just that auxilliary, and will help but the car was not designed to be cooled soley by this method regardless what worked in your back yard.

Running at an elevated idle is a good way to cool the engine. It spins the fan and waterpump at higher rpm providing better circulation of both air and water through and engine under the lightest possible load. Your test procedure, even with the engine fan disabled, is flawed at best, as are some of your conclusions.

My car is currently doing some overheating. The fan clutch is new, and I can hear it working. The aux fan runs on low when the AC is switched on. On your 90% certainty I have ordered a new fan switch.
If you have a working fan clutch, you should not overheat under any circumstances. I doubt your issue is the auxiliary fan, its coolant sensor or its relay. I still recommend that you change the sensor out as a preventative maintenance thing. But I think you need to check further. We don't want a situation where an aux fan working at high speed compensates for a different latent problem in your system.

Why should we bother if one or both the fans keep the car cool when it was running hot earlier? Because if the car runs hot, its because something is damaged in there, and whatever is currently damaged there could get worse somewhere down the line, and it could get worse uncontrollably, and inconveniently, and rapidly. The engine can handle overheats well but why take the risk and the stress when we are blessed with warning signs ahead of time?

Please note that the aux fan's high speed and its coolant sensor cannot be tested by switching the ac on.

Last edited by Mamij; 07-21-2013 at 12:23 PM.
  #11  
Old 07-21-2013, 12:32 PM
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supertech777 supertech777 is offline
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Re: Reminder on watching the coolant temp

I think o smell the rat is back , hmmm stinks all the way here in the mid-west

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  #12  
Old 07-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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supertech777 supertech777 is offline
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Re: Reminder on watching the coolant temp

[QUOTE=Mamij;772345
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Last edited by supertech777; 07-21-2013 at 12:45 PM.
  #13  
Old 07-21-2013, 05:45 PM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamij View Post
If you have a working fan clutch, you should not overheat under any circumstances.

Simply not true. With the AC on, in high ambient temps, sitting at a stop will definately cause the temp to climb. At idle the fan is spinning too slowly, as is the w/p to effectively cool the engine.

I read the rest, I have the manual. My rad, w/p and clutch are all new. My symptoms suggest that the aux fan is not switching to high speed. Could be the switch, could be the relay. You stated 90% chance it is the switch. I am testing your advice.

PLEASE try to refrain from needlessly verbose threads. What I quoted was the ONLY pertainent part of your two multi paragraph posts No matter how authoritative you try to be, there are big holes in your theories. I understand, with much dismay, that you really seem to have zero control over yourself when it comes to these issues that bother many of us on the forum.

I really truely wish you would just post elsewhere... of course, if I had to guess, they are probably trying to run you out on the other forums as well
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2013, 01:57 PM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
Simply not true. With the AC on, in high ambient temps, sitting at a stop will definately cause the temp to climb. At idle the fan is spinning too slowly, as is the w/p to effectively cool the engine.

I read the rest, I have the manual. My rad, w/p and clutch are all new. My symptoms suggest that the aux fan is not switching to high speed. Could be the switch, could be the relay. You stated 90% chance it is the switch. I am testing your advice.

PLEASE try to refrain from needlessly verbose threads. What I quoted was the ONLY pertainent part of your two multi paragraph posts No matter how authoritative you try to be, there are big holes in your theories. I understand, with much dismay, that you really seem to have zero control over yourself when it comes to these issues that bother many of us on the forum.

I really truely wish you would just post elsewhere... of course, if I had to guess, they are probably trying to run you out on the other forums as well
Since you've morphed into Mr Hyde,

1. You were not there when the car was designed, and you are not an educated automotive engineer to make authoritative pronouncements on their intentions. And last I checked BMW was not one of your 'PR' firms' clients. You use your observations and knowledge to make educated guesses.

2. As do others. That's how it was highlighted that the car works fine on the aux fan alone, with the clutch fan deleted. And this is also while stuck in a long jam with the ac on, during a hot day. And at high revs at idle, after a hard drive, also on a hot day. There is no need for a new backup electric fan in place of the clutch fan. DIRECT OBSERVATIONS - a concept you would do well to reacquaint yourself with. Check the archives for more details.

2. The fan delete mod was NOT introduced by Roberto. Wouldn't it be interesting to know who brought it up first ?

3. Roberto queried, then trusted the forum member who brought it up and gave it a shot. He found it worked, and ironed out all the potential kinks involved over time. You lampooning it as nonsense is just you classically shooting down anything you don't instinctively agree with, regardless of the logic involved, as we have all seen umpteen times before. You cannot tolerate being proven wrong, although nobody really cares one way or the other. The proof is in the archives.

3. I stand corrected about the working fan clutch being able to cool the car while at idle on a hot day while stuck in a 2 hour traffic jam with the ac on. In that situation, the temperature will very slowly climb and may well eventually reach red given sufficient time. The aux fan should automatically run at high speed to bring it back to normal or stable at very slightly above 12oclock.

4. Perhaps that was indeed the intended purpose of the aux fan - to supplement a fan clutch running at idle on a hot day while stuck in a jam with the ac on. Regardless, it has been engineered to compensate for the fan clutch 100% under practically all circumstances. People have been driving without the fan clutch without molest due to the delete itself for nearly a year now. Of course, there is no backup, but you rarely need one if your car is well maintained.

5. Verbose posts in response to you and your brood come about when the *obvious* needs to be explained in simple terms. At other times, I prefer to be comprehensive, as was the case with my first post in this thread. Noobs learn more that way (I certainly did), and the likes of you have more meat to pick at, disagree and discuss if you're so inclined, which ultimately enhances tribal knowledge. Everybody wins. See? Entire waste of the last 3 sentences and this one, when the obvious needs to be pointed out.

p.s. The fan delete mod here has been tested and found to work fine on both M20 and M50 E34s. It has not been done on other engines, although there is no reason to believe it won't work due to BMW's obvious overengineering when it comes to the aux cooling system. I will be trying it on my M52 pretty soon as well.
  #15  
Old 07-22-2013, 01:59 PM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
Simply not true. With the AC on, in high ambient temps, sitting at a stop will definately cause the temp to climb. At idle the fan is spinning too slowly, as is the w/p to effectively cool the engine.

I read the rest, I have the manual. My rad, w/p and clutch are all new. My symptoms suggest that the aux fan is not switching to high speed. Could be the switch, could be the relay. You stated 90% chance it is the switch. I am testing your advice.

PLEASE try to refrain from needlessly verbose threads. What I quoted was the ONLY pertainent part of your two multi paragraph posts No matter how authoritative you try to be, there are big holes in your theories. I understand, with much dismay, that you really seem to have zero control over yourself when it comes to these issues that bother many of us on the forum.

I really truely wish you would just post elsewhere... of course, if I had to guess, they are probably trying to run you out on the other forums as well
There is another potential problem with the aux fan that is also in the low probability box. That would be its main resistor failing, although that would only leave the fan running at high speed not low. So resistor, relay, the aux fan's motor itself, a blown fuse - 10%. Coolant temperature sensor - 90%.

If you find your relay is the problem, check first to see if the relay socket's wiring is sound. Many a relay problem has been fixed in 10 minutes on the spot by manually pushing the relay socket's wires up into the socket further, by cleaning the socket's spades with contact cleaner and a toothbrush, and by securing the relay and its socket together with a cable tie or a rubber band. The socket itself can be pulled off its holder if there is enough slack from its wires below. Perhaps Sled you could check that on your end, since you seem to be in a mood to follow my recommendations. It would take you only 3 minutes, considering that you have seasoned hands.

Following that, key2 your ignition and jump the aux fan's coolant sensor connectors internally to see if your fan spins at both speeds. If it does not spin at high speed, jump the high speed socket directly to body ground. If it still does not spin at high speed, then your resistor is probably out. If it does, however, then its the relay for sure. This test does not check out the coolant sensor in any way, but that should be replaced as a matter of course at 100k intervals.
  #16  
Old 07-22-2013, 05:48 PM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Have you stopped for one second to consider that I do not desire your help?

So I catch you posting garbage, call you out on it, you acknowledge and then think that maybe I still want your help?

You and bobby are a couple of seriously misguided youth IMO.

It would probably be best if I were to ad you to my ignore list but my fear is the bad information you spread will cause people to try some of your risky schemes, ultimately damaging their cars. You have another foolish car damaging experiment planned.... running a car with portions of the cooling system disabled. Brilliant Bobby and Mamij cook BMW headgaskets because they are the enlightened ones.

So lastly, since I think we are clear on my opinion of your advice and methods, let me say that I will only stop to make corrections, if I can find the time to wade through your ludicrously verbose ramblings PLEASE stop spreading falsehoods based on your foolish observations, PLEASE.
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  #17  
Old 07-22-2013, 08:56 PM
AlvinM74 AlvinM74 is offline
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Steve,

I did the exact same thing today. My engine has been running hot during idle. I recently replaced my readiator and water pump and thermostat (recomended by my local mechanic) which I thought looked fine when I took em out except the radiator which was leaking.

So I thought I would take a video of the test using the newspaper trick...wallaaa!!!



Shold be getting my new fan clutch in a fee days.

Another question about coolant capacity....

I flushed the coolant out to replace the water pump and the thermostat. The specs says it should take 11 quarts of coolant. I only put about less than 8 quarts so far (2 gallon jugs). I bought 3 so I'm wondering if I did not bleed it properly or 8 quarts of coolant is normal? I thought I bled it properly run at operting temperature turn on full heating and open bleed valve until coolant comes out.

I am not oveheating except during idle as I explained above. Thoughts anyone??

Alvin
  #18  
Old 07-23-2013, 04:15 AM
BMR_LVR's Avatar
BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Hey Alvin. Did you drain the block as well? If not, that is likely where the coolant amount difference is. There is a drain under the exhaust manifold that you remove in order to drain the block.

Glad you're getting a new fan clutch, but do make sure to check your auxiliary fan to make sure it is working properly. I'm one that does NOT subscribe to the theory that it is fine to remove the fan clutch and rely only on the aux fan. My previous E34 aux fan failed at around 255K miles and I would get some slight heating at idle as you are now. The aux fan on my current one failed due to a mechanical obstruction with similar results. So, make sure your aux fan is in good shape as well because, IMHO (and apparently BMWs as well), the aux fan is a necessary component to the cooling system that augments the fan clutch.

Good luck,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold


Last edited by BMR_LVR; 07-23-2013 at 04:17 AM.
  #19  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:47 AM
AlvinM74 AlvinM74 is offline
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Reminder on watching the coolant temp

ThAnks for the info Steve. I did not drain the engine block. I thought the block got drained when i took out the water pump lots of coolant came out.

Again thank you. I get much good info from the forums than my local mechanic.

Alvin


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  #20  
Old 07-23-2013, 08:22 AM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 320i M52 1996
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR_LVR View Post
Hey Alvin. Did you drain the block as well? If not, that is likely where the coolant amount difference is. There is a drain under the exhaust manifold that you remove in order to drain the block.

Glad you're getting a new fan clutch, but do make sure to check your auxiliary fan to make sure it is working properly. I'm one that does NOT subscribe to the theory that it is fine to remove the fan clutch and rely only on the aux fan. My previous E34 aux fan failed at around 255K miles and I would get some slight heating at idle as you are now. The aux fan on my current one failed due to a mechanical obstruction with similar results. So, make sure your aux fan is in good shape as well because, IMHO (and apparently BMWs as well), the aux fan is a necessary component to the cooling system that augments the fan clutch.

Good luck,

Steve - glad that you found that problem and was honest enough to report it.

Alvin - No need to drain your block, just a thorough flush with Prestone's Super flush (with rust binding chelating agents, anything else on the market with that is a waste of time and coolant) is all you need. Anyway, since you've just refreshed your coolant, don't bother with the trouble and expense of this until next time.

And ignore the provocative language used by people and focus on the facts on the forums. That way, you would have zoomed in on your auxiliary fan by now. Check out the links in my first post in this thread for the troubleshooting guide to it. Google has lots of other illustrated DIYs as well on this subject.

Sled - Since you like to post in response to me and others who care not for what you say, I'll just follow your example and do the same. And please do keep up the holier than thou falsehood neighbourhood watch spiel, it makes my ass laugh. The fact is that you've been handily proven wrong time and again and unlike Steve you don't have the guts to begin to admit your errors even sideways. You are good with your hands but less so with your head. The archive is littered with the proof of this.

Steve - If your aux fan fails at 255k, you've had a good run indeed. Everything in the car will fail eventually once it exceeds its service life so citing that as the sole reason not to do away with the clutch fan is bad logic imo. The key is to replace components in advance of that point.

I would put in a new fan every 200k if I intend to keep the car, even if my old fan is working fine. Why not? A new fan with a new resistor is $200, labour would be $200 max if you don't DIY (its a 1.5 hour job if you are familiar with the process, 3 hours if you're not), $400 for a further 200k is what *** $0.002 cents *** per mile ?

Compare that against no longer changing the fan clutch at 100k, the reduced load on your water pump's bearings which can only increase its life/reduce the risk of its premature failure, the far greater visibility and ease of access to the pulleys and belts in front of the engine, and of course, the slightly better oomph when you put pedal to the metal due to reduced drag, the excellent cooling provided by the curve bladed Bosch fan, and the case for the clutch fan delete becomes far more interesting.

Last edited by Mamij; 07-23-2013 at 10:06 AM.
  #21  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:15 AM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Location: SW Mountains
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamij View Post
Steve - glad that you found that problem and was honest enough to report it.
You are such a clown Go ahead stick your nose right up his behind, I doubt Steve has any love for you either.

I also posted my condition, and I will report the results when the part for my car arrives. Do you intend on congratulating me as well when I post the solution?

Quote:
Sled - Since you like to post in response to me and others who care not for what you say, I'll just follow your example and do the same. And please do keep up the holier than thou falsehood neighbourhood watch spiel, it makes my ass laugh. The fact is that you've been handily proven wrong time and again and unlike Steve you don't have the guts to begin to admit your errors even sideways. You are good with your hands but less so with your head. The archive is littered with the proof of this.
As mentioned, I am calling you out on yet more false posting. I think maybe the best thing to do is post up your list, as bobby baghead, that includes all your fixes, not limited to, the italian tune up, diesel in the gas and oil, fixing the abs and radiatior with bathroom sealant... the list goes on and on. You are once again quite wrong about relying on the aux cooling system to cool your car. Wrong, wrong and more wrong, it never seems to end

I doubt you can find any proof of what you suggest in the archives. Easy to say that in a slanderous way, likely impossible to substantiate. On the contrary, your mistakes are right here in this thread, and pretty much every response you post. That can be easily substantiated

Quote:
Compare that against no longer changing the fan clutch at 100k, the reduced load on your water pump's bearings which can only increase its life/reduce the risk of its premature failure, the far greater visibility and ease of access to the pulleys and belts in front of the engine, and of course, the slightly better oomph when you put pedal to the metal due to reduced drag, the excellent cooling provided by the curve bladed Bosch fan, and the case for the clutch fan delete becomes far more interesting.

The only way you can safely removed and discard the clutched fan assembly is to replace it with an additional electric fan. Regardless of what your short term "observations" are, the car was not designed to operate without a primary cooling fan. The mere fact that you suggest this is a good idea, makes my case beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Last edited by snowsled7; 07-24-2013 at 05:18 AM.
  #22  
Old 07-24-2013, 09:07 AM
Mamij Mamij is offline
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1. Steve has tacitly acknowledged the error of his earlier recommendation that the fan clutch was sole problem in his car, and is educating others accordingly. That is the mark of a true bmw lover. I respect him for that.

2. If I didn't know you better, I would find it laughable for you to imagine that BMW just could not have OVER ENGINEERED something like the auxiliary cooling system on their cars, to the point where it handles the engine quite well in place of the fan clutch. That's earth shattering stuff for you. Of course, your cognitive shortfalls covered up by desperate attempts to ignore or miscast other people's evidence as being short term etc, is by now well known.

3. High temperature clear silicone sealant, good to 450F, that can hold radiator pressure perfectly (tested on both a bleed screw, and a leaky rubber coolant pipe ), is the same as ordinary bathroom sealant just because its costs the same $4. RIGHT.

4. The whole of Liqui Moly gmbh will be laughing at your suggestion that there's little in the archives that show the world what a genius you are. And that is just one example. Want to tell me how an alternator really works buddy ? How about if engine oil is needed to maintain compression in a combustion chamber ? Oh btw just how delicate are conrod bearings ? And can particulate filters be washed and reused if practical? What is an open and closed loop on an O2 sensor and how does that integrate with a car ? Are fuel pump pulse dampers needed in a return fuel systems with a separate regulator? Will 3/4 heat destroy a seasoned BMW engine (like Alvin in his post above) ? Are HGs in a bottle a form of technology or merely soap water? Why do crankshaft sensors have a resistance range and how come they fail? Hey can we ramjet an engine (oh forgive me, I blaspheme ! blaspheme !!) ? lolol

5. Newbies may believe you're hot but those around for awhile know what you're worth. Ultimately I care not. If people fail to read threads fully because you stink the place up midway, that's their loss. If they don't think critically and ask more questions to clarify and do their own research, that's their choice. Keep playing to the audience that comes and goes in 14 days. I'll keep playing to my conscience and my car. She's a keeper.

6. Congrats on taking my advice. It will lead to a better E34 experience for you. (I presume you've checked that your aux fan runs at both speeds, and that your relay is not at fault if it doesn't. )

7. Steve's post sealed it for me insofar as this thread is concerned. You can have the curtain call.

Last edited by Mamij; 07-24-2013 at 09:55 AM.
  #23  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:10 AM
BMR_LVR's Avatar
BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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After seeing all of the continued crap carried on by you in other's quotes Mamij, I took you off of my ignore list so I could respond to your pile of equine fecal matter.

Let's get something perfectly straight here. I don't need your respect. I don't want your respect. Any respect that I have on this forum has been earned by my actions. I freely admit my weak areas such as electronics, window regulators, and the list goes on and on. I see a lot of posts that I think I may know the answers to, but choose not to respond because I don't know the answer. You, on the other hand, will purport to know everything about everything about BMWs.

You are the one not reading posts fully. NOWHWERE did I acknowledge any error. I made no error. I never said that my faulty fan clutch was not the cause of my problem. I said that on my PREVIOUS E34, the aux fan went out and caused my temp to creep up when at idle. That was only with the A/C on by the way and it ran at exactly ½ when the A/C was off. If you will go back and re-read my posts, you will see where I advised Alvin to check his aux fan because it is an integral part of the coolant system that AUGMENTS the fan clutch. To augment means to assist. The aux fan's primary purpose is to cool the A/C condenser, not to cool the entire system. Thankfully BMW put the temp switch on the radiator to kick the aux fan on in the event that the engine begins to heat up, regardless of the reason. The fan clutch is the primary means of cooling the engine whether you want to admit that or not. Your opinion does not change the truth of the matter. There are so many other things I could say regarding this, but I lament that I am taking this time out of my work day to respond to such rubbish.

While I'm thinking about it, how dare you insinuate that I am one that does not believe in preventative maintenance? You have absolutely nothing to base that statement on. I did the complete coolant system overhaul 75K ago, and think I will do it again soon just for good measure since when one coolant component begins to fail, others are not far behind. Understand however that my system does not "certainly still have a problem". My car is running at the correct temperature under all conditions. I did a complete front end overhaul. I service my transmission every 25K miles instead of the 30K interval recommended. I change my oil spot on regularly. My car is maintained to the hilt.

In the past I have chosen to basically ignore your posts. However, you completed twisted this thread and maligned it and me along the way. That is what trolls do. I will not sit idly by while you do that.

Once again, you have taken over a thread with your verbose ramblings in an attempt to paint yourself as an all-knowing BMW god. You are not. You speak of your direct observations? I seem to recall you being the one telling three different forums that your M52 engine would run without the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) connected. Really? And you want those here to take anything you say as creditable? Are you kidding me ?????

What is going on in this thread is the exact reason that I requested that it be closed down by Andy much earlier. I don't know what kind of fraternity you think Andy and I are in or what kind of kindred spirit you think we have, but I can assure you that it is nothing more than the moderators seeing your posts for what they are ….. a bunch of crap.

However, the value of the reminder in this thread is now far outweighed by the absolute garbage that you are putting out there. I stand by my previously statement that you are a trouble maker and an instigator. You seem to think that all out argument with everyone defines "spirited debate", but you are completely wrong. All it is is argument. Plain and simple.

I notice that Andy has not been active much since this thread was started. I can assure you that I will again ask that he end this thread. This time I am going to communicate with him via PM. Not only am I going to ask that he close it, but I am going to ask that he delete it altogether. The point of my thread was simply a friendly reminder to my fellow Festers to keep an eye on their coolant systems, particularly the fan clutch and once again, you began to try to dominate it and turn it into your bully pulpit for your theories. If Andy grants my request and this thread is indeed locked or deleted, rest assured that it is due solely to your actions and not some kindred spirit between Andy and me.
__________________
Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold


Last edited by BMR_LVR; 07-24-2013 at 11:22 AM.
  #24  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:37 PM
_Ethrty-Andy_'s Avatar
_Ethrty-Andy_ _Ethrty-Andy_ is offline
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Sorry guys, i thought this was a harmless thread last i checked, so haent clicked on it.

Thread now locked, possibke infractions to follow when i read it
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