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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 07-03-2013, 04:20 AM
Gimrall Gimrall is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 325i
Loose Vacuum Hose & P1191/P1193

I have a 2001 325i, E46 with two seemingly related issues. In attempting to pass emissions we ran a OBD2 code scanner to determine what was wrong. The code P1191 (Pre-catalyst Fuel Trim System Bank 2) was found. Upon inspection of the air intake hose around the mass flow sensor, a loose hose was found. Shown in the image below is the hose with a blue plug in the end.



For the sake of experimentation, I plugged this hose with the blue plug and cleared the computer codes. After returning home from work, the scanner produced the code P1193 (Post-catalyst Fuel Trim System Bank 2) or (Inlet Air Temp. Circuit High). I have searched and searched for this hose's receptacle, but have not been able to locate it. In addition, I do not currently have the ability to jack up the car and follow this hose to its other end.

I will be sure to add further details as necessary.
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2013, 04:37 AM
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ahull ahull is online now
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Look closely at the little shunt just above your plugged hose in the picture, just below that big hose in the 90 degree bend plug to the intake tube. If I'm not mistaken, it goes on that shunt...... looks like either someone capped it off, or the end of the rubber piece of that hose broke off and was left on the shunt. New rubber hose there may be in order.
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2003 330i TiAg Sport Pkg ~90k miles
DIY MODS: AA Stage I supercharger, Meyle HD FCAs w Powerflex CABs, Bilstein shocks, Meyle HD Rtabs, Angel Eyes, Clear Corners/Markers w/ LEDs, LED tails, ZHP rims, Akebono pads, AUX input
DIY E46 Merit Badges: Sunroof resurrection, CCV, OFHG, VCG w/ VANOS seals, DISA, Cooling Refresh I, steering giubo, window regs, Magnetic Infandibulator (see wiki)
DIY On deck: Rear Diff bushing. UUC SSK, clutch job eventually, Wavetrac LSD

Last edited by ahull; 07-03-2013 at 04:39 AM.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2013, 06:32 AM
fdriller9 fdriller9 is online now
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Mein Auto: '06 AW 330xi
That looks like the vacuum line for the SAP system solenoid. Not 100% though
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 AM
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ahull ahull is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdriller9 View Post
That looks like the vacuum line for the SAP system solenoid. Not 100% though
I was thinking that too. But would think there'd also be an SAP system code thrown. If it is that, OP it's on the back side of the intake manifold and the other end of it goes to the SAP valve on the exhaust side of the engine near the front. Rubber, plastic, rubber end to end. Look in the e46 wiki (link above your post above) for secondary air system and check out the thread linked from there for the schematic.

Although, as I posted I think there's supposed to be a line on that capped shunt, but could just be it has a line on the 330 and not the 325. My intake is totally different now so can't recall clearly.
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2003 330i TiAg Sport Pkg ~90k miles
DIY MODS: AA Stage I supercharger, Meyle HD FCAs w Powerflex CABs, Bilstein shocks, Meyle HD Rtabs, Angel Eyes, Clear Corners/Markers w/ LEDs, LED tails, ZHP rims, Akebono pads, AUX input
DIY E46 Merit Badges: Sunroof resurrection, CCV, OFHG, VCG w/ VANOS seals, DISA, Cooling Refresh I, steering giubo, window regs, Magnetic Infandibulator (see wiki)
DIY On deck: Rear Diff bushing. UUC SSK, clutch job eventually, Wavetrac LSD

Last edited by ahull; 07-03-2013 at 07:13 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2013, 12:50 AM
Gimrall Gimrall is offline
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Re: Loose Vacuum Hose & P1191/P1193

I also had that idea about the SAP system. I have double checked that the vacuum hose connected to the SAP valve is properly seated at both ends.

This random hose starts at the location in the picture, goes straight towards the pavement, turns near the lower control arm, and goes towards the rear of the car. This is where I lose sight of the hose.
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2013, 07:46 AM
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ahull ahull is online now
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Mein Auto: ist schnell! (03 330i SC)
Check out realoem for your car. Plugging in a 2002 325 I pulled up this as a possibility:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...71&hg=16&fg=15

Hose #5? Still doesn't answer where it connects under the hood. It also looks like it could be part of the fuel pressure purge valve. That valve sits just under the front of the intake manifold.

Just recalling this stuff from when I did the supercharger install years ago - I had to modify a hose that looked like that, I think.
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2003 330i TiAg Sport Pkg ~90k miles
DIY MODS: AA Stage I supercharger, Meyle HD FCAs w Powerflex CABs, Bilstein shocks, Meyle HD Rtabs, Angel Eyes, Clear Corners/Markers w/ LEDs, LED tails, ZHP rims, Akebono pads, AUX input
DIY E46 Merit Badges: Sunroof resurrection, CCV, OFHG, VCG w/ VANOS seals, DISA, Cooling Refresh I, steering giubo, window regs, Magnetic Infandibulator (see wiki)
DIY On deck: Rear Diff bushing. UUC SSK, clutch job eventually, Wavetrac LSD
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2013, 07:49 AM
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ahull ahull is online now
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Hold on this may be it:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...04&hg=13&fg=10

Hose 4, with black rubber #5 on each end. Again, need to figure out where it plugs under the hood. Still thinking fuel pressure purge valve.
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2003 330i TiAg Sport Pkg ~90k miles
DIY MODS: AA Stage I supercharger, Meyle HD FCAs w Powerflex CABs, Bilstein shocks, Meyle HD Rtabs, Angel Eyes, Clear Corners/Markers w/ LEDs, LED tails, ZHP rims, Akebono pads, AUX input
DIY E46 Merit Badges: Sunroof resurrection, CCV, OFHG, VCG w/ VANOS seals, DISA, Cooling Refresh I, steering giubo, window regs, Magnetic Infandibulator (see wiki)
DIY On deck: Rear Diff bushing. UUC SSK, clutch job eventually, Wavetrac LSD
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:26 AM
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tcphoto tcphoto is offline
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I can tell you that hose with the blue plug runs from the fuel filter to the bottom connection of the F on the intake boot. I just replaced my fuel filter and the vacuum hose was not even connected to the filter.
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:44 AM
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ahull ahull is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcphoto View Post
I can tell you that hose with the blue plug runs from the fuel filter to the bottom connection of the F on the intake boot. I just replaced my fuel filter and the vacuum hose was not even connected to the filter.
So basically what I said in my first reply. I knew something plugged into the little shunt. And post #7 shows it plugging into the fuel filter regulator.
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2003 330i TiAg Sport Pkg ~90k miles
DIY MODS: AA Stage I supercharger, Meyle HD FCAs w Powerflex CABs, Bilstein shocks, Meyle HD Rtabs, Angel Eyes, Clear Corners/Markers w/ LEDs, LED tails, ZHP rims, Akebono pads, AUX input
DIY E46 Merit Badges: Sunroof resurrection, CCV, OFHG, VCG w/ VANOS seals, DISA, Cooling Refresh I, steering giubo, window regs, Magnetic Infandibulator (see wiki)
DIY On deck: Rear Diff bushing. UUC SSK, clutch job eventually, Wavetrac LSD

Last edited by ahull; 07-04-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2013, 06:21 PM
Gimrall Gimrall is offline
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After watching the embeded video (@ 2 minutes and 26 seconds), I am fairly certain that half of you are right. The hose does seem to belong to the F shaped wall tap of the air intake boot after the mass flow sensor. I went to Autozone and bought some new vacuum hose to replace the dried portion. I just reset the codes and will perform a diagnostic drive tonight after all of the fireworks traffic is gone (or maybe during the fireworks shows...)



btw: Thank you all for helping with this problem. Hopefully this clears the P1191 & P1193 codes.

Last edited by Gimrall; 07-04-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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  #11  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:34 AM
Megasquirter Megasquirter is offline
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Mein Auto: 01 e46 330i
I have the same codes, did the vaccuum line clear your codes?
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:15 AM
Gimrall Gimrall is offline
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Re: Loose Vacuum Hose & P1191/P1193

Thank you Megasquirter for reminding me to finish my post. Plugging this vacuum house into the second port on the F shaped wall tap stopped the codes from occurring.

WARNING! Depending on how long this code has been active, your car may have been adjusting the fuel trim very rich. Rich fuel conditions for a long period of time (months) can destroy your catalytic converter.

This was discovered through research and my latest code; P0430. We replaced both post cat O2 sensors and one of them (bank 2) had serious corrosion problems. We strongly believe that the bank 2 cat is also corroded and dead, but are in the process of trying to foul the sensor reading in order to pass emissions.
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:14 PM
latitude39 latitude39 is online now
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Mein Auto: E46-325xi; F34-328GT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimrall View Post
... replaced both post cat O2 sensors and one of them (bank 2) had serious corrosion problems. We strongly believe that the bank 2 cat is also corroded and dead...
"... the bank 2 cat" may be dead. Do you really mean the two pre-cat sensors?

Hopefully your cats didn't get toasted.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2013, 02:34 PM
Gimrall Gimrall is offline
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Re: Loose Vacuum Hose & P1191/P1193

@Latitude39 The P0430 indicates a problem with the signal from the post-cat sensor in bank 2. Without being able to monitor the O2 voltages in real time, we decided to forge ahead by replacing BOTH post-cat sensors (bank 1 and bank 2). We figured that since the car is at 135,000 miles and the replacement interval is 100,000 miles, we might as well replace both. We have not examined or replaced the pre-cat sensors or the cats themselves.

From what we can tell, the bank 2 cat is toasted. Without the fouler bolts installed, we are still getting the P0430 code.

Last edited by Gimrall; 08-03-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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