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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)

E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 08-02-2013, 12:41 AM
wrbird wrbird is offline
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Buying my first BMW?

I'm thinking of buying my first BMW, used of course, that's all I can afford. 2005 330xi with 85k mi for $11k in mint condition, looks wise, I haven't test driven it yet. But after reading so many post on this forum it sounds like BMW's are crap in the sense of quality. Please don't get upset, I'm not here to pick a fight, but learn if they are really worth the price and the dollar amount for the repairs. I'm reading that it's recommended to replace water pumps every 60K mi and control arm bushings about the same, sub-frame cracking, $900 brake jobs, etc. I even read all the posts of VANOS o-rings needing to be replaced even after the first 25k mi. Wow, I'm not use to that kind of service on a vehicle. I spend more time driving them than working on them. Can anyone convince me that BMWs are really the Ultimate Driving Machine and not the Ultimate DIY Machine? Or are they more for the enthusiast mechanic that likes to tinker with his vehicle? I'm in the stage of life where I would rather pay someone to work on my car because I would rather be doing something else. Should I be looking at another manufacturer? Again, please don't take what I said negatively, I would like to know what the benefits are of owning a BMW rather than forking out all the money for repairs. The Wiki stated that the DIY should expect to spend at least $1000/year in repairs and those who go to a shop will spend 2x-3x that much per year. Is this really true? I don't spend nearly that much on the three vehicles I own now, and they're older than the BMW I want to buy. I know I sound like I have an attitude, I just want to be convinced that spending $11k for this car is going to be worth it. Any comments? And thanks for your help!
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:30 AM
lgr122 lgr122 is offline
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If you enjoy driving good car and valuate handling high, then you can feel BMW is worth it still after all maintenance.

If you don't know enough about cars to feel the difference, then you will be disappointed with BMW.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:28 AM
r0gue r0gue is offline
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Go to any car forum and you'll hear of maintenance and problems. The Internet tends to amplify things.

If that guy has done the maintenance and care that we do on his E46, it's worth the price and then some. If not, it's probably an ok deal.

That said - Buy a Honda.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:49 AM
Zochin60 Zochin60 is offline
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BMWs are great cars to drive, but yes you have to budget at least $1,000 to
$2,000 per year for maintenance once they are out of warranty. Some years
you will spend less and some years more. If you can live with that, go for it.
Make sure you get a pre-purchase inspection from an authorized BMW center.

The benefits of owning a BMW are in the driving. If that isn't your reason for
buying one, yes get a Honda.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:31 AM
GLOK1132 GLOK1132 is offline
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Yes BMWs are relatively high on maintenance, but I love my car and to be completely honest, there is not another new or used car that I would rather have than an E46. And many others on this site know exactly what I am talking about.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:35 AM
bjbolduc bjbolduc is offline
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Buying my first BMW?

What you have to remember is that maintenance costs are a function of original price and bmw's aren't cheap. My wife has an x3 and the frequency of issues isn't much different from other cars. Be sure you find a local non-dealer mechanic who specializes in bmw
Dealer service for my and wife's bmw is great but $$$



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Old 08-02-2013, 06:09 AM
wrbird wrbird is offline
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Thanks guys for the response. I'm looking forward to the test drive and will definitely look into the pre-purchase inspection, that sounds like a very wise idea. The car looks like it's been well maintained. I was wondering about the idea of "any car forum and you'll hear of maintenance and problems. The Internet tends to amplify things." That's what I was kinda thinking also.

Any other suggestions of what I should like for before I buy would be greatly appreciated. I did completely read the Wiki so that was very helpful, but again it highlighted ALL the problems so I was left kinda scared. If you know what I mean I can really tell you guys like to help each other out, that's great!

Last edited by wrbird; 08-02-2013 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:54 AM
Cavi Mike Cavi Mike is offline
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People who buy BMW's tend to think it's supposed to be some perfect vehicle that couldn't ever possibly have anything ever go wrong with it. And god forbid if it ever does. Normal people realize that all cars are full of regular maintenance items and things need to be replaced as they wear and degrade. People need to stop holding BMW to some high regard. They may be a bit more luxurious than a Honda but it's still a fairly economical car and these things are a dime a dozen in Europe.

And parts for these things are NOT more expensive than other cars. Nissan, Toyota, Honda, anything imported costs just as much to maintain.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:55 AM
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OfTheLost OfTheLost is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrbird View Post
I'm looking forward to the test drive and will definitely look into the pre-purchase inspection, that sounds like a very wise idea. The car looks like it's been well maintained.
Just remember, looks can be deceiving. The fact that the original owner may have hand waxed the car every month wont mean squat if the cooling system fails or the entire suspension needs to be replaced right after you happen to purchase the car. I would try to find out as much as possible about any maintenance that has been addressed and what needs to be done so you can use this to your advantage when negotiating a price.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:59 AM
wrbird wrbird is offline
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Originally Posted by OfTheLost View Post
Just remember, looks can be deceiving. The fact that the original owner may have hand waxed the car every month wont mean squat if the cooling system fails or the entire suspension needs to be replaced right after you happen to purchase the car. I would try to find out as much as possible about any maintenance that has been addressed and what needs to be done so you can use this to your advantage when negotiating a price.
You are absolutely right, thanks for the input. I plan on getting a pre-purchase inspection so maybe that will tell me more.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:12 AM
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OfTheLost OfTheLost is online now
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Originally Posted by wrbird View Post
You are absolutely right, thanks for the input. I plan on getting a pre-purchase inspection so maybe that will tell me more.
This is good, but it is only going to tell you so much. If all the parts under the hood are original, a PPI is not going to tell you if an expansion tank is ABOUT to crack or a CVV system is ABOUT to fail, just that what is in the car right now seems okay. You really need to try to find out what all has been done to it already, otherwise you could be in for an expensive list of mnaintenance coming up when approaching the 100,000 mi landmark. (I bought my car with 85k, so ask me how I know )
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:40 AM
wrbird wrbird is offline
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Ouch! It sounds like you had some expensive repairs. What should I be looking to see what was repaired? What are the common items that should've been replaced before 85k and what are things I should expect to replace around 100K mi? If I don't have all the maintenance records on the vehicle to know what has been replaced, it sounds like a real crap shoot to know what I'm getting into.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by wrbird View Post
Ouch! It sounds like you had some expensive repairs. What should I be looking to see what was repaired? What are the common items that should've been replaced before 85k and what are things I should expect to replace around 100K mi? If I don't have all the maintenance records on the vehicle to know what has been replaced, it sounds like a real crap shoot to know what I'm getting into.
I'm not trying to scare you, but I will give you my BMW history. First, I want to say that you are smart for seeking advice before purchase, because I did not. Two weeks after I bought my car I developed a crack in the radiator, so I had to do a cooling system overhaul. Then I developed a rear end clunk which turned out to be a bad differential bushing (common issue). This cost me ~$500 at my indy shop because you have to drop the diff and need a bushing press, so I didnt feel comfortable doing the job. Ive had to replace control arms/bushings, valve cover gasket and oil filter housing gasket due to oil leaks, transmission and differential drain/fill, alternator, upper and lower intake boots, engine/transmission mounts, guibo and center support bearing for my driveshaft, and I am in the middle of a suspension replacement right now. Most everything I just listed is going to fail at some point, there is no way around it. I still have yet to address my CCV or my Vanos seals yet, and I am due for a fuel pump/filter job as well. The brakes were about the only thing that had been done, so I'm lucky I dont have that on my list as well.

I hope this gives you an idea of what to be aware of, I'm sure I'm even leaving a few smaller things out. Hopefully some of these things have been addressed.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrbird View Post
Ouch! It sounds like you had some expensive repairs. What should I be looking to see what was repaired? What are the common items that should've been replaced before 85k and what are things I should expect to replace around 100K mi? If I don't have all the maintenance records on the vehicle to know what has been replaced, it sounds like a real crap shoot to know what I'm getting into.
You hit the nail on the head in your first post, where you mentioned that these cars might be best for the "enthusiast tinker type"....that is true wisdom right there

If you`re the type who doesn`t mind spending a weekend and a few hundred bucks working on the car several times a year, then you will probably have a survivable (if not perfect) BMW relationship.

We put up with all this crap mainly because the E46 (in good condition) provides a superb driving experience that is pretty much unmatched by other brands within this price range. It offers a "complete package"....well-balanced, with equal measures of speed, handling, braking, comfort, ergonomics.

There`s a damn good reason why the 3-Series is the target benchmark that every other manufacturer has been striving to match for the last 30 years....

The best advice I can give you is to go and test-drive one (preferably with manual trans and Sport Package) to see what all the hoopla is about, and whether the car meets your wants & needs as a driver....

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Old 08-02-2013, 10:09 AM
wrbird wrbird is offline
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Thanks guys this is great help. A coworker just bought a 2004 330Ci with manual trans and he just let me test drive it. Yea, it put a smile on my face, especially after driving my Dodge Colt The one I'm looking at is an Xi and automatic so I'm looking forward to feeling the difference. So all said and done, I just have to be prepared to drop some more money to play, I mean drive
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:31 PM
sunsetcoast sunsetcoast is offline
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I've lurked a long time, so my first post is a bit long...

Let's not get too carried away here with the negativity. Yes, owners post problems in the forums. People don't log in to say "another 2 months and nothing happened with my car".

Here is my boring story from nearly 9 years combined ownership experience with used e46s. Total repairs needed (aside from regular scheduled maintenance):
  • battery replacement (after 13 years)
  • cooling system (as PM)

No, we didn't buy the first e46 we saw. It took 3+m months to find a sedan that we liked (and paid a premium for it). The wagon required over 9 months of searching. Pre Purchase Inspections were our friends. We knew what did/didn't need to be fixed (and how much it should cost).

Is an e46 a "set it an forget it" kind of vehicle that you send off to school with your mechanically disinclined child, knowing that all that it will need to make it through the semester is gas (and an oil check now and then)? No. There are Toyotas and Hondas a-plenty for that. But neither are all e46s time bombs waiting to explode.

You've driven one. Get behind the wheel of a couple more well-maintained examples and you can decide whether the experience is worth the likelihood of a couple of small "headaches" over its lifespan.

With *any* used car, I anticipate having to make at least $500 of "improvements" right off the bat. They are often sold when the owner doesn't want to fix something, especially on vehicles 8+ years old. It makes sense to set aside $100~$200 a month to take care of an e46. If you get a good copy (as we did), that $200/mo will be enough to buy another used car in 4 yrs! Perhaps more than with a typical used car, the history of the car, how it was driven and maintained, plays a huge role in how is its likely to perform for you.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:34 PM
wrbird wrbird is offline
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Thanks for the input. Well, I test drove the one I was interested in, but I wasn't impressed enough to spend that kind of money. I also found out that the car was in an accident, but whoever did the work did a very impressive job. One would never know unless they intentional looked for the evidence. Like you said it took you several months so I will just patiently wait.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:07 PM
drzoom drzoom is offline
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Right on! I have a 2001 330i 5sp SP with 75000 original miles and even though I've recently bought a 650i, I'm keeping my e46. They are awesome cars. Yes, I've done my share of usual repairs, like valve cover leaks, oil housing leak, crankshaft position sensors, and control arms etc. In 13 years of ownership, it has never failed me, knock on wood. You should also keep in mind that many of us here are car enthusiasts who want their cars in perfect shape, always! My total repair bill is probably less than 3k so far (knock on wood). But, I've done almost all the wrenching myself. Take your time and you'll find a good one.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:23 AM
Cavi Mike Cavi Mike is offline
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The cooling system on a BMW has to be one of the easiest "major" overhauls I've ever done to a car. Since the engine faces the right way, you don't have to be a contortionist to access anything. And my favorite part is the cartridge style water pump. No gasket, no RTV, just a nice O-ring. Now THAT'S why people say BMW's are "refined." Everything is so easy to work on, it's wonderful. If there ever was a car to learn the ropes on, a straight-six BMW is it. Ever tried changing the spark-plugs on a FWD(front-wheel-drive) V6? Yeah, good luck with that if you're a n00b. Good luck with that anyways. FWD cars are the bane of existence. Thank God, Allah, the bloody Spaghetti Monster, that BMW still puts a proper drivetrain in their cars.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:39 AM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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Buying my first BMW?

OP - FYI the advice in this thread is spot on. Good luck with your search, but bear in mind the words here when you do so your expectations of E46 ownership are managed. Out of warranty, mine averaged $1,450 a year in maintenance cost over years 5 through 8, getting me to 100k before it was sold.

But bless me it was a blast to drive.


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Old 08-03-2013, 02:19 PM
Cardiac Cardiac is offline
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Thumbs up Yippy ky yea

I think I'm going to really enjoy this forum. This am we signed the papers on an `02 `vert or cabriolet as they're called. Silver with blk top and int. We looked at many, it's documented and 65K miles old. I've said before, Im a bit of a gearhead so I can't wait to get underneath and all over it.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:34 PM
latitude39 latitude39 is offline
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... I also found out that the car was in an accident, but whoever did the work did a very impressive job. ...
Good job finding that the candidate 330 had been repaired. Keep looking for that well-maintained, garaged, cream puff. You'll find one.

Everything important has been said but let me summarize my experience:
My 11-year-old 325xi-auto, 144k miles, runs perfectly. I still love driving it and have no intention of letting it go any time soon.

We got the car in like-new condition from the original owner at 17k miles, 10 years ago. We've kept it up. After the warranty ran out we kept taking the car to the downtown (Denver) BMW dealership. I started looking a receipts later and was appalled to see the astronomical charges we had paid. In 2010 I learned how to work on this simple inline 6-cylinder, which has 1 cylinder head, 6 easily-accessible spark plugs, and is very thoughtfully designed and assembled. For me, it's a joy to work on. Everything about the car is solidly built and logical. It even has a full-sized spare! And it's not lightweight--my xi is around 3600 lbs, IIRC. I like that.

The maintenance on the xi (you'll appreciate AWD in Colorado) for me has been typical of those others who have chimed in. For me, the key maintenance issues are:
  • Cooling system maintenance, especially water pump and expansion tank
  • Front control arms (bushings and ball joints) wear out at highly variable mileage, usually before 100k.
  • Oil filter housing gasket -- a $5 gasket and fairly straightword DIY
  • Valve cover gasket at 110k (for me) - that happens on other cars too -- simple DIY
  • VANOS seals (piston rings, really) - I replaced them at 110k. My car ran fine before….and after.
  • Automatic transmission oil and filter -- straightforward and similar to domestic vehicles
  • Rear subframe cracking? Not a problem on "xi" versions. I had mine inspected anyway--no problem.
  • Taillight grounding recall -- BMW will fix this for you. I did it as a DIY….simple.
  • Window regulators -- $120 for the driver's regulator and simple DIY.
  • $1200 brake job! #$! Even the local tire store charged me $650 for rear brakes. And they didn't even flush the brake fluid! Disc brakes are simple and E46 brakes look like any other disc brake I've worked on. I stay with OEM, which is very reasonable. I avoid paying extra for "dustless" brakes, drilled rotors, etcs. The OEM brakes are very good brakes. The 330 disc rotors are 1" in diameter larger and must really be terrific.
  • Crankcase Ventilation, aka CCV, PCV, etc. The valve sometimes clogs and the 5 pipes become very brittle or leak. Parts are < $200 but the DIY is a challenge because most of us don't remove the intake manifold and have do contortions to get it assembled.
  • Intake camshaft position sensor ($125 for OEM) is a simple DIY. However, a failed intake CPS will leave your car inoperable one day and running fine the next. The part number has been superseded, making me believe that BMW resolved the issue. Mine failed at 125k miles but runs like new with the new one.
  • Motor mounts. $150 in parts. 133k miles for me. I could feel the engine idling through the steering wheel. A moderate DIY. Nice idle now.

I'm sure I missed a thing or two but nothing about the BMW E46 has ever made me feel like it was shoddily built or shortcuts were taken. I never curse the German engineers when working on this delightful machine. Still, if you're not mechanically inclined I won't try to encourage you to become a DIY'er. Instead, since you're in Colorado and maybe near Littleton, I'll recommend Autoworks Colorado. They know German cars.

Good luck and keep us posted!
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:52 PM
TannerT TannerT is offline
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Re: Buying my first BMW?

As far as quality goes BMW is up there with MERC at the top. That's not to say you won't be replacing things but you have to do that on every vehicle. Interior and paint are great.

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Old 08-04-2013, 08:21 PM
deccody deccody is offline
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Re: Buying my first BMW?

My car never fails to put a smile on my face lol and honestly I can't believe how easy these cars are to work on like everything is so well thought out ...like the fuel pump....had my 04 330i for a year now about 3000k I'd say but that's not always the case. My cooling system went out on me well the fan apparently broke apart ...took everything out around it 1000k ...but they are great cars no lie I'll be in a BMW till I die lol

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Old 08-05-2013, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavi Mike View Post
The cooling system on a BMW has to be one of the easiest "major" overhauls I've ever done to a car. Since the engine faces the right way, you don't have to be a contortionist to access anything. And my favorite part is the cartridge style water pump. No gasket, no RTV, just a nice O-ring. Now THAT'S why people say BMW's are "refined." Everything is so easy to work on, it's wonderful. If there ever was a car to learn the ropes on, a straight-six BMW is it. Ever tried changing the spark-plugs on a FWD(front-wheel-drive) V6? Yeah, good luck with that if you're a n00b. Good luck with that anyways. FWD cars are the bane of existence. Thank God, Allah, the bloody Spaghetti Monster, that BMW still puts a proper drivetrain in their cars.
How much did it cost you to rebuild the cooling system? Total cost?
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