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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 04-30-2013, 05:43 PM
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Edgy36-39 Edgy36-39 is offline
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Wow, what a gold mine to go through. Thanks cn90. I'm on the trail of code P 0492, SAS bank 2.

Hoping its valve and maybe small hoses going in. I should be able to tell on cold start up whether the pump is still working, correct?
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  #77  
Old 05-01-2013, 07:53 AM
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Since you don't have both banks failing, suggests carbon build up in one head, bad O2 sensor (1) on bank 2 side, possibly it is a very small but plausible to DME low flow rate just to one side due to a loss of total air volume which could include valve, plumbing, and or weak pump. However, if I look at error code literally, it appears to be not enough air flow making it through just one head which could be CBU issue or piping from valve to heads leaking or just one oxygen sensor which is greedy and wants even more exhaust dilution. Would be interesting to know if it were possible to send the output of bank one O2 sensor only to both inputs of O2 sensors at DME. Could cause drivability issues worse than stupid SES light due to emission issue. There are software solution from PowerChips, but expensive. You might try swapping O2 sensors first from side to side and see if error follows O2 sensor or stays with bank #2.
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  #78  
Old 05-01-2013, 01:56 PM
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Edgy36-39 Edgy36-39 is offline
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Thanks for thoughts. The O2 sensors are pretty new, pre cats changed 1.5 years ago. If sensor was bad that would be a different code wouldn't it?

Tried to listen this AM closely to cold start, couldn't really tell if pump was working.

Doru, how difficult was access to the valve?
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  #79  
Old 05-01-2013, 02:06 PM
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SAP system sends injected air from the pump, through the valve, air into both heads (on a 540). O2 must see an appropriate swing to a leaner condition when pump is running. I did not mean to suggest that the bank that is not working has a bad 02 sensor, but if the pump were not running at all, you usually get an error on both banks. Swapping O2 from side to other side would just rule out sensor that does not need to be bad as in "not functioning", but may just not send a signal to the DME that it is seeing a proper lean swing while pump is running.
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  #80  
Old 05-11-2013, 11:27 AM
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Hey all. Reread this thread again, but I'm a Noob when it comes to electrical.

What I'm searching for is a clear, "talking to a 6 year old" type description of how to confirm the problem is NOT electrical, prior to replacing the secondary air check valve. And if possible, confirmation the valve can be reached via the pass wheel well, with car on lift.

This thread is a godsend -- the threads on M5Forum all go down the winding road of carbon buildup, not helpful.

Thanks in advance.
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  #81  
Old 05-11-2013, 04:51 PM
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EXACTLY what error are you getting? Do you have a multi-meter? The car in question is the M5, correct? Do you want to walk your way through it and I will take you under my wing such that you understand 100% how the sap works and maybe a little bit about electronics. If the answer to all these questions is "yes", then go to one of the big box hardware stores and tell the people in the electrical department that you want a digital multi-meter capable of reading up to 10 amps. If you are in luck, you should find one for under $30. You don't sweat it as you will likely have two and your second one can be a "Fluke" brand bought on Ebay. You will use it a thousand times over the course of your lifetime. Might as well get handy-now.
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  #82  
Old 05-11-2013, 08:30 PM
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Thanks.

Quote:
I'm on the trail of code P 0492, SAS bank 2.
I have a multimeter, never cracked the plastic.
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  #83  
Old 05-12-2013, 07:37 AM
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Just for kicks (I'm an electronics tech) I removed relay completely on my 2002 and 2000 540s. As anyone can see, the wire from fuse #107 is solid red-not red with black or yellow or anything but SOLID RED. It leads from fuse #107 to terminal 30 on the socket and terminal 30 on the relay, btw. Terminal #30 has a large red wire leading to it and has 12VDC with lots of current handling capacity. Cn90s schematic and my car are exactly alike. Terminal 30 of the relay is not the center of the SPDT relay, but nonetheless has 12 VDC at ALL times. Terminal 87 is the lead to the pump and when 12 volts is applied to the relay coil through terminals 85 and 86, the relay energizes which puts terminal 87 to terminal 30 and energizes the pump. When the DME says "enough" the coil drops out and terminal 87a is the NC contact and grounds the pump. Terminal 87 in the NO contact and gets 12 volts from terminal 30 which is always hot because it is fed from fuse 107. My relay and my relay base and the schematic CN posted all agree on my cars. Do not run a jumper between terminal 30 and terminal 87 as you will blow fuse #107 as the pump power lead is grounded because it is still connected to ground through pin 87a. If you want to force the pump to run, take the connector off the pump. then ground the appropriate terminal of pump and run a lead from pin 30 to the pump. My cars agree entirely in all respects to the relay, the relay base, and the schematic. I would let car sit in garage overnight and then have multimeter connected to pump connector and see if pump is getting 12 volts. I would then go from there.

I have had to replace 2 saps, valves, hoses, fuse and relay and one car took PowerChips software to over-ride CBU issue in M5 heads.

Last edited by 540iman; 05-12-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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  #84  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:08 AM
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Will I be able to find a new relay at NAPA or autozone? I replaced SAP, valve, hose and fuse 107 and my pump wont kick on. Thanks cn90 this thread was a huge help!
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Last edited by 1BADBM; 08-19-2013 at 10:10 AM.
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  #85  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:11 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Did you jump the relay to see if the air pump kicks in?
If jumping works, then relay is bad.
A new relay is only $10 at dealer.

PS: Go to dealer and ask for PN 12631742690. Bring in the old relay to verify.

Last edited by cn90; 08-19-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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  #86  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Did you jump the relay to see if the air pump kicks in?
If jumping works, then relay is bad.
A new relay is only $10 at dealer.

PS: Go to dealer and ask for PN 12631742690. Bring in the old relay to verify.
Should I disconnect the battery first? Ill try it now and report back. Also just pulled this hose, looks like oil and smells like oil, am I in trouble here?
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Last edited by 1BADBM; 08-19-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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  #87  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:43 AM
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Sorry heres the picture
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  #88  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:53 AM
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Sorry heres the picture
It is the PCV system, reconnect it for now.
If you have not done the PCV then time to consider PCV overhaul.
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  #89  
Old 08-19-2013, 10:57 AM
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It is the PCV system, reconnect it for now.
If you have not done the PCV then time to consider PCV overhaul.
Thanks I'll research to see what it entails.
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  #90  
Old 08-20-2013, 07:26 AM
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Jumped the relay pump kicked on. Relay is 16.99 at local dealer FTL picking up today. Thanks again cn90
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  #91  
Old 08-20-2013, 11:28 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Now, go to your local junkyard and get some odds/ends.

Ebay is another good source.
Some people part their E39 and sell the whole package (fuses, relays) on ebay for cheap.

I pulled a whole of stuff from an E39 from my local junkyard:
- bulbs
- relays
- fuses

This way in a pinch, I can fix things instantly w/o going to dealer for mundane stuff like relays.
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  #92  
Old 08-21-2013, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Now, go to your local junkyard and get some odds/ends.

Ebay is another good source.
Some people part their E39 and sell the whole package (fuses, relays) on ebay for cheap.

I pulled a whole of stuff from an E39 from my local junkyard:
- bulbs
- relays
- fuses

This way in a pinch, I can fix things instantly w/o going to dealer for mundane stuff like relays.
Will do ill stock up on some misc things.

Ran I jumped the relay yesterday pump kicked on, replaced the relay and it wont turn on. Could jumping the fuse mess anything up. I checked the fuse and its good. I plugged the relay in without disconnecting the battery.
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  #93  
Old 08-21-2013, 08:12 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1BADBM View Post
...I jumped the relay yesterday pump kicked on, replaced the relay and it wont turn on. Could jumping the fuse mess anything up. I checked the fuse and its good. I plugged the relay in without disconnecting the battery.
Review the circuit again:

1- The fact that you jump 30 and 87 and the Air Pump runs proves that:
* Fuse 107 is OK and Air Pump is OK.

2- The "control circuit": is fuse 31 OK?

3- Lastly, does the DME send out signal via pin labeled "X60004".

4- Also check the fuse for the "Secondary air pump valve" too.

5- Is the Secondary air pump valve working?


PS: Maybe you should try the SAS Delete and forget about this whole SAS thingy (see my other thread on ideas how to do a SAS Delete!):



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  #94  
Old 08-21-2013, 08:28 AM
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Thanks for the response, I will consider the delete because this system is annoying! I did get the parts for a good price so I'll try to make it work. Is fuse 31 located in the e box as well? I'll check it once I get home from work. I also did confirm that the valve is working.
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Last edited by 1BADBM; 08-21-2013 at 08:36 AM.
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  #95  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:08 AM
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Wow double checked the fuse this morning and it was blown again...Going to disconnect battery replace and see if it blows again. What would cause this?
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  #96  
Old 08-22-2013, 09:28 AM
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Jason5driver Jason5driver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BADBM View Post
Wow double checked the fuse this morning and it was blown again...Going to disconnect battery replace and see if it blows again. What would cause this?
Sounds like you have a short some where...
I would check for any metal contact, grounding any wire connections...
FYI, I am by no means electrical savvy.
Nothing like Cnn/ Cn90...!
LOL!


Thanks!
Jason
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Last edited by Jason5driver; 08-22-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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  #97  
Old 08-22-2013, 09:33 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1BADBM View Post
Wow double checked the fuse this morning and it was blown again...Going to disconnect battery replace and see if it blows again. What would cause this?
Which fuse is blown?
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  #98  
Old 08-22-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
which fuse is blown?
#107
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  #99  
Old 08-22-2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Sounds like you have a short some where...
I would check for any metal contact, grounding any wire connections...
FYI, I am by no means electrical savvy.
Nothing like Cnn/ Cn90...!
LOL!


Thanks!
Jason
I was thinking the same but i double checked anything that I touched. Im not as savvy as cn90 either which is probably why im frustrated lol
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  #100  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:07 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Fuse 107 controls only the Air Pump. So there is a short in your new Air Pump!
Is the Air Pump OEM Pierburg?

Frustrated, no problemoooooo, you are a candidate for SAS Delete using Radio Shack 90-cent diode.
We need a guinea pig, can I nominate you as the 1st to try the diode trick?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=716325
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