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X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
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  #26  
Old 06-14-2013, 04:29 PM
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**The valve stem diameter was increase at a production point to remedy the guide problem. I can not believe BMW would continue to use inferior stem seals after this change. I have attached my post related to this carbon buildup issue. My vehicle has passed smog test & no longer smokes. I did have to run the proceedure twice before it lowerd the HC levels within specs. And I will probably do it 1 more time for good measure. It cost me $200 to fix compared to the $4000 > $5000 I was told it would take for a guide/seal replacement **

2006 BMW 550I 92,000 miles V8 (N62TU)
Smokes (white/gray ) failed visual Smog Report (15 mph HC ppm Measured 91 Max. 49)

It used oil (approx. 1 qt. per 2-3 tanks) and I read the history of V8 valve stem problems (internet & local shop research), I was about to have the valve guide/stem seals replaced or drive the car off a cliff. But it didn't have the classic symptoms of defective valve stem seals/guides. It also ran like a rapped ape (old school for ran great). I'm a heavy truck mechanic with old school car experience (35 years). The plugs were clean and the exhaust smelled funny, also the exhaust dripped clean water no matter how hot or long it ran. I pulled the intake throttle housing and noticed excessive oil. Replaced the (ccv) diaphragms in the valve covers (torn) & read up on the cyclone oil separator (like a Dyson vacuum). Because I wasn't happy with the oil consumption & residue in the intake, I fabricated a sponge with screen for each valve cover vent outlet. This cleaned out the oil residue and I assume it will reduce oil consumption while allowing crankcase recirculation, but it did not solve the smoke problem. I pulled the spark plugs and stuck a camera down a couple plug holes. Yes, the top of the pistons were loaded with carbon. So I sprayed Sea Foam in each plug hole, followed by a shot of low pressure shop air to help spread it around the piston. I let it sit for an hour or so, then reinstalled the plugs. I topped off the fuel tank with high octane and added 12 oz. of CRC Fuel System Cleaner (part #05063) to the tank. 100 miles later and what a difference no smoke or water dipping out the exhaust after warm up. I'm in love with the car again
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  #27  
Old 06-26-2013, 09:18 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

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  #28  
Old 07-08-2013, 10:05 AM
jlb500 jlb500 is offline
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Hi..

I live in Westchester, NY and would like to learn more about your valve stem service.

It's a 2006 x5 4.4i with ~86K miles. I've owned the car approximately 10 months. A few months ago, the smoking problem appeared. The crank case ventilators were replaced last week, but the smoking persists.

Blueish smoke, only after idling (i.e. pulling away from a stop sign, stop-go traffic, etc.)

Can you please PM me if you are interested?
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:33 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

Done, thanks for your interest!


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  #30  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:22 AM
jddny jddny is offline
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I drove a 2001 X5 4.4 last night for sale by a private party. It felt sluggish off a dead start when I floored it. He said he had no idea what I meant. He's a friend so I sort of believe him. Before I go to the expense of a $330 pre purchase inspection at the dealr, can someone tell me if the slow acceleration is likely due to valve stem seal issues? Car was tight and nice, I just dont want an expensive repair right away. Car has 134K miles
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  #31  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jddny View Post
I drove a 2001 X5 4.4 last night for sale by a private party. It felt sluggish off a dead start when I floored it. He said he had no idea what I meant. He's a friend so I sort of believe him. Before I go to the expense of a $330 pre purchase inspection at the dealr, can someone tell me if the slow acceleration is likely due to valve stem seal issues? Car was tight and nice, I just dont want an expensive repair right away. Car has 134K miles
Autospeed published 8/18/2009 Issue 554

Almost without exception, commercial petrols would build up deposits on the components of an engine's intake system over time if they weren't additized. A number of additives have been developed which prevent and/or remove intake system deposits. Unfortunately, some of them increase combustion chamber deposits, solving one problem, but creating another. Since all base petrols are formulated to the same regulated specifications, the performance of the deposit control additive is one of the few features that differentiates one brand of petrol from another.

* Fuel Injectors and Carburetors
Fuel injectors are designed to accurately meter fuel to the engine and to deliver it in a precise pattern of fine droplets. Because the fuel passages are small, injectors are highly sensitive to small amounts of deposits in the critical regions where the fuel is metered and atomized. These deposits can reduce fuel flow and alter the spray pattern, degrading drivability, decreasing power and fuel economy and increasing emissions. Deposits cause similar problems for carbureted engines because carburetors also use a number of small channels and orifices to meter fuel. Port fuel injector (PFI) deposits are believed to form during the hot soak period after the engine has been turned off. The stationary petrol trapped in the injector is exposed to a higher temperature for a longer time than the petrol which flowed through the injector when the engine was running. The heat degrades the petrol, initiating deposit formation.

* Intake Valves and Ports
Intake valves and ports are subject to more deposit build up than fuel injectors because they operate at higher temperatures. Heavy valve and port deposits reduce maximum engine power because they restrict airflow. Intake valve deposits also have been shown to affect exhaust emissions. In some very sensitive modern fuel-injected engines, low levels of intake valve deposits can degrade cold start and warm-up driveability. Other valve deposit problems include valve sticking in very cold weather - because deposits interfere with the valve stem sliding in its guide, and burned valves - because severe deposits prevent the valve from seating properly.


* Combustion Chamber
When an engine is brand new, its octane number requirement is determined by its design and the quality of its manufacture. Generally, it will not knock when operated on petrol with the antiknock quality prescribed by the manufacturer. However, the engine's octane requirement increases as combustion chamber deposits form during the first several thousand kilometers of operation. If the increase is large enough, the recommended petrol octane rating may not prevent knocking or, if the vehicle is equipped with a knock sensor, the loss of power which accompanies knock suppression may occur.

Combustion chamber deposit interference (CCDI) is a new problem that has occurred in a few modern engines. It is the result of physical contact between deposits located on the piston top and cylinder head and is manifested as a very loud banging sound when the engine is cold. CCDI is limited to the engines which have been designed, primarily to reduce emissions, to have minimal clearance -1 millimetre or less - between some areas of the piston top and the cylinder head (squish areas) when the piston is at top dead centre. Deposits contribute to CCDI, but poor control of manufacturing tolerances in the susceptible engines also can be a factor. CCDI occurs primarily at cold-start. The interference and the telltale sound disappear as the engine warms up and the thermal expansion of the various engine components increases the clearance between the piston top and head at top dead centre.

Historical Development of Deposit Control Additives

* Carburetor Detergent
This class of additives consists of relatively inexpensive low-molecular-weight surfactants used at low concentrations. When introduced in 1954, they were effective in preventing and, in many cases, removing deposits from carburetor throttle bodies. However, they could not handle deposits in other parts of the carburetor, like the air bleeds, or in the rest of the engine intake system. The introduction of PCV and EGR emission control systems in the 1960s and 1970s increased deposit levels in the whole intake system. As a result, carburetor detergents were not as effective as they were in the simpler 1950s vehicles.

* Detergent-Dispersants
This class of additives consists of polybutene succinimides. Additives with similar chemistry had been used widely as engine oil dispersants before the chemistry was applied to petrol in 1968. Detergent-dispersants are used at concentrations three to five times higher than carburetor detergents. Their performance is sometimes improved by using them in combination with a petroleum carrier oil. They provide keep-clean performance for the intake manifold and intake ports. But they don't control intake valve deposits and have poor carburetor and fuel injector clean-up performance.


* Deposit Control (DC) Additives
The first additive of this class was introduced in 1970. It was based on polybutene amine chemistry and was used in combination with a carrier oil. While they have to be used at higher concentrations than detergent-dispersants, DC additives provide benefits throughout the engine intake system. They clean-up - and keep-clean - the throttle body and upper areas of the carburetor, fuel injectors, intake manifold, intake ports, and intake valves.

Lead salts are a combustion catalyst for carbon, so the shift to unleaded petrol changed the nature of combustion chamber deposits. When the first generation DC additives were used in unleaded petrol, they continued to control intake system deposits, but increased combustion chamber deposits. In response, a second generation DC additive designed specifically for use with unleaded petrol was developed and introduced in 1980. It was based on new polyether amine chemistry, which provides excellent deposit control performance throughout the intake system without contributing to combustion chamber deposits or causing any other adverse side effects.

* No Harm and Compatibility
DC additives are used at concentrations which are twenty to fifty times higher than the concentrations of other petrol additives. At these higher concentrations, they have the potential to affect petrol properties, fuel system materials and engine oils. So DC additives are tested for the absence of negative attributes (no harm) as well as for the positive attribute of controlling deposits. The additized fuel must be fully compatible with the elastomers and metals it will contact. Also it must have good water tolerance and not contribute to spark plug fouling or crankcase sludge formation.

* Required Additive Use
Because of the relationship between decreased deposits and decreased emissions, all motor petrol sold in the United States must contain an additive which provides a minimum level of deposit control performance. This requirement was established by the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 and became effective in January 1995. A similar requirement has been in effect in California since January 1992. Additive manufacturers are required to obtain EPA certification for their additives. The certification request must include documentation of the additive's effectiveness in specified fuel injector keep-clean and intake valve keep-clean tests and the additive concentration at which this performance is achieved. Certification may be obtained for use nationwide, for use in specific areas of the United States, or for use with particular types of petrol. Nationwide certification requires using a test petrol which meets ASTM D 4814, but has a greater tendency to form deposits than the average petrol.

Petrol formulators must add a certified deposit control additive to their petrol at the certification concentration level or higher. Over some range, higher concentrations often provide improved performance; for instance, changing keep-clean performance to clean-up performance. Historically, some petrol brands have provided much higher deposit control performance than the certification performance required by the EPA. For competitive reasons, they probably will continue to do so.

* Aftermarket Additives
Aftermarket additives are additives intended to be added by the customer to a petrol (or oil) which is already in the customer's vehicle. Engine deposits are affected by engine design, driving conditions, petrol base fuel quality, and petrol additives. While all petrol must contain a deposit control additive, some additives are less effective than others or are used at concentrations which are less effective. In addition, some vehicle designs form heavier deposits than others, and some vehicle designs are extremely sensitive to deposits which do form. Aftermarket deposit control additives are available which can clean-up deposits which have formed due to these circumstances. Treating one tankful of petrol with the aftermarket additive is often sufficient. However, additive chemistry and dosage play large roles in determining the effectiveness of the product. Polyetheramine-based aftermarket additives have been shown to be particularly effective at providing excellent intake system and combustion chamber deposit clean-up.
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  #32  
Old 07-10-2013, 12:33 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

Hey jddny, I just you a PM.


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  #33  
Old 07-14-2013, 04:31 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

Here's a couple pics of the latest valve stem seal job. It's 2004 545i w/ 162k miles. In the second pic you can see the obvious difference between the old and new seal.

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  #34  
Old 07-29-2013, 02:36 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

Here are some pics of the latest job, 2006 750li with approx 100k miles. This engine was in pretty good shape, except for the valve stem seals of course













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  #35  
Old 08-28-2013, 05:52 AM
jlb500 jlb500 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

BMWOEM1 did a great job on my '06 x5 this past weekend. He replaced the valve stem seals among other gaskets and seals.

He was honest, professional, and transparent.

The smoke is gone. Car doesn't feel more powerful or anything, but it is getting improved MPG.

I did a 160 mile highway run (to/from work) before the job and averaged 16.4 MPG. After the job on the same drive I averaged 19.2.

Great job by BMWOEM1. I highly recommend.


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  #36  
Old 08-28-2013, 07:39 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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FWIW, The Honda people have been doing this using compressed air and the piston (of the cylinder you work on) at TDC:
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...hp?f=1&t=50752

In the Honda, there is no need to remove the cam b/c Honda engines uses a single camshaft + rocker arm design.
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  #37  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlb500 View Post
BMWOEM1 did a great job on my '06 x5 this past weekend. He replaced the valve stem seals among other gaskets and seals.
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That's Great - Sounds like a good deal as long as it wasn't the "other gaskets and seals" replaced that were causing your initial smoke problem. It would be interesting if you kept us updated on your oil consumption.
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  #38  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:22 AM
jlb500 jlb500 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

The other gaskets and seals were fine, but given the fact they needed to be removed to perform the repair it was wise to replace them - as well as the spark plugs.

BMWOEM1 showed me the old valve stem seals...and they were visually finished - even to my untrained eye.


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  #39  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jlb500 View Post
The other gaskets and seals were fine, but given the fact they needed to be removed to perform the repair it was wise to replace them - as well as the spark plugs.

BMWOEM1 showed me the old valve stem seals...and they were visually finished - even to my untrained eye.
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Please keep us informed on oil consumption
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  #40  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:50 AM
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dolfan13 dolfan13 is offline
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Bmwoem1 sounds like your doing a great service.I wanted to ask you if BMW used viton seals.Would it make any difference.
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  #41  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:38 PM
dmask0 dmask0 is offline
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How long does the valve seal job last? Do the new seals last for the remaining life of the engine like other vehicles? What about the other associated gaskets, vanos seals, etc? After a valve seal job at ~80-100k miles, should we expect another round of upper engine seal/gasket replacement at 150k miles (the work that A B Able Truck recommends)?

I am wondering whether the valve seal replacement work (and all other associated gaskets, etc) improves the reliability/maintenance of the N62 engine to a level of low worry (aside from the usual cooling system woes). And if so, for how long? I know "low worry" is a relative term, but hopefully you get the point of the question.

Maybe long enough until the transmission fails?

Thanks
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  #42  
Old 08-29-2013, 10:01 PM
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Here's interesting threads on the issue - pay attention to what 007 says about cleaning the valve covers (inners) when replacing CCVs. (Second thread has interesting photos)

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...ling-time.html

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/album.php?u=346089

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 08-30-2013 at 08:42 AM. Reason: info
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  #43  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:19 AM
bmwrider2010 bmwrider2010 is offline
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how many in total stem seals needs to be replaced only 16 exhaust valves seals or inlet valves seals as well?
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  #44  
Old 08-31-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bmwrider2010 View Post
how many in total stem seals needs to be replaced only 16 exhaust valves seals or inlet valves seals as well?
Think about your question ??

Why would you open her up and only do half the job??
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  #45  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:54 PM
Rahulk Rahulk is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

The inlets are easier then the exhausts... So might as well change them too. The seals cost like 40 for 16... But you are right you might be able to get away with just the exhausts... (Both camshafts need to come out though)


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  #46  
Old 08-31-2013, 07:29 PM
realbaishui realbaishui is offline
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bmwoem1, I also has the same question: How long will the valve stem seals replacement last? Another 100K miles or it is hard to say?
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  #47  
Old 09-01-2013, 04:27 AM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

I don't see any reason why the news seals shouldn't last another 100k miles. It's hard to say for sure because most of the cars I have done this repair on, already have 100k+ miles on them. The new seals in these heads will probably outlast the engine/ transmission.


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  #48  
Old 09-01-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by realbaishui View Post
bmwoem1, I also has the same question: How long will the valve stem seals replacement last? Another 100K miles or it is hard to say?
Posted - BMWOEM! - 05-01-2013, 06:10 AM - X3 forum - Valve Seals done for $2,500

I've done them on cars with as little as 45k miles.

Last edited by A B Able Truck; 09-01-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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  #49  
Old 09-02-2013, 04:19 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

Yes, I had a 650i with about 45k miles that needed valve stem seals. I also had a 750li with about 70k miles that needed it done


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  #50  
Old 09-25-2013, 02:39 PM
bmwoem1 bmwoem1 is offline
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Valve stem seals done for $2500!

Bump, I have a couple weekends open in October if anyone is interested





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