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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #1  
Old 09-12-2013, 05:40 AM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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2005 X3 lowering problem-alignment

In need of some feedback from those who have used the H&R/Bilstein springs replacements.

A few months ago I had all 4 springs and struts/shocks relaced on my Wife's 2005 X3 3.0 standard model due to broken coils. I used the H&R50433 and Bilstein HD shocks 114585 and Bilstein struts 114567 and 114574 as spec'd from Tire Rack but purchased elsewhere due to 3 month backorder from TR.

After replacement the car has a very noticeable negative camber stance. I took the car to a reputable shop and the said the alignment could not be brought in to factory spec and did not charge me anything for the attempt.

I decided to leave it alone as I was told this modification does not require any additional kits with the install, and proceeded to drive it as is.

We now have extreme wear on the inside edges of all 4 tires and need to replace them. I don't want to buy tires until I solve the alignment isuue.

So my question: who has done this package and what did you have to do? Is there enough adjustment to get this right or do I need to go back to stock spring dimensions? Spending $300-$500 for correction kits is not an option I would consider. Did my alignment guy miss something?
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:23 AM
usaret usaret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Fish View Post
In need of some feedback from those who have used the H&R/Bilstein springs replacements.

A few months ago I had all 4 springs and struts/shocks relaced on my Wife's 2005 X3 3.0 standard model due to broken coils. I used the H&R50433 and Bilstein HD shocks 114585 and Bilstein struts 114567 and 114574 as spec'd from Tire Rack but purchased elsewhere due to 3 month backorder from TR.

After replacement the car has a very noticeable negative camber stance. I took the car to a reputable shop and the said the alignment could not be brought in to factory spec and did not charge me anything for the attempt.

I decided to leave it alone as I was told this modification does not require any additional kits with the install, and proceeded to drive it as is.

We now have extreme wear on the inside edges of all 4 tires and need to replace them. I don't want to buy tires until I solve the alignment isuue.

So my question: who has done this package and what did you have to do? Is there enough adjustment to get this right or do I need to go back to stock spring dimensions? Spending $300-$500 for correction kits is not an option I would consider. Did my alignment guy miss something?
My dad (who was a dealership technician for 38 years) had a couple of customers accuse him of making matters worse when he tried to be a nice guy and try to align their modified cars. As a result he took a stand and refused to work on anything that appeared to be modified in any way. Several of his fellow tech's took the same stance on the issue. So you're kit may have put the adjusters out of range or they may just be afraid of it.

Another negative of modifying is that they bury you on trade-in as the dealership normally will not take the risk of selling them so they go straight to the auction.

http://www.justice.org/cps/rde/xchg/...8070_18111.htm
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:03 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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So you lowered it with H&R's

you put the wrong spings on the truck..

you have a non sport model and you put sport aftermarket springs on it..
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:27 AM
nightmareuki nightmareuki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Fish View Post
In need of some feedback from those who have used the H&R/Bilstein springs replacements.

A few months ago I had all 4 springs and struts/shocks relaced on my Wife's 2005 X3 3.0 standard model due to broken coils. I used the H&R50433 and Bilstein HD shocks 114585 and Bilstein struts 114567 and 114574 as spec'd from Tire Rack but purchased elsewhere due to 3 month backorder from TR.

After replacement the car has a very noticeable negative camber stance. I took the car to a reputable shop and the said the alignment could not be brought in to factory spec and did not charge me anything for the attempt.

I decided to leave it alone as I was told this modification does not require any additional kits with the install, and proceeded to drive it as is.

We now have extreme wear on the inside edges of all 4 tires and need to replace them. I don't want to buy tires until I solve the alignment isuue.

So my question: who has done this package and what did you have to do? Is there enough adjustment to get this right or do I need to go back to stock spring dimensions? Spending $300-$500 for correction kits is not an option I would consider. Did my alignment guy miss something?
looks like you used the wrong springs,
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...Standard+Model
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2013, 03:54 PM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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Nightmare-I gues I am not seeing your point? The link you posted says 2005 x3 standard model and lists the spring I used.

As for the shop wanting to stay away from the alignment, it was a friend and he did attempt to do it, but at the full range of adjustment it was still out. He showed me on the alignment computer.

I would have used stock spring height, but the improved stance sounded like the way to
go as that was what everyone was offering.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:03 PM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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I think the H&R and Eibach springs are comparable in length, so I would welcome input from anyone that used the Eibachs as well.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:33 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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Ok so if you dont want to chew tires up... you have 2 options..

camber kit.
different spings


simple problem
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:46 PM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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Burning, I'm new here but...If I wanted info from a Jackass I would have said " Hey Jackasses, what do you think"

I used a kit that is proposed by Tire rack and others to be a direct replacement for defective factory springs with the added benefit of improved handling. I would like to hear from others who have used this, and don't need any feedback from guys like you. Thanks.
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:49 PM
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mlukas161 mlukas161 is offline
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Re: 2005 X3 lowering problem-alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Fish View Post
I think the H&R and Eibach springs are comparable in length, so I would welcome input from anyone that used the Eibachs as well.


I've installed eibach pro kit springs along with Bilstein hd shocks and struts. So have a few others on this forum. My advice would be to go to a BMW dealer for the alignment. Tell them what work was done to the suspension. The alignment is the only reason I will go to the dealer. It should be easy for them to get to factory specs on the alignment. As long as the vehicle hasn't been lowered more than an inch.
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2013, 05:29 PM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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Mlukas, When I orderd the springs I thought the H&R and Eibach were comparable, and according to Tire Rack they are. 1.2" front-1.2" rear for the Eibach, vs. 1.3" front 1.2" rear for the H&R. These are the springs they list for the standard model. I read your posts last night and you stated no problem with alignment, so that's why I question the alignment shop.

Not sure where to go from here. Did you take before and after measurements?

Thanks.

Last edited by K-Fish; 09-12-2013 at 05:56 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2013, 06:08 PM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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I have heard broken coils are common on this vehicle. Since there has not been much response to my aftermarket post did most people with this problem just go to the dealer and give them the $2200-$2500 for stock repairs?
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2013, 07:13 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is online now
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Lesjofors have been used by some X3 owners. Same height as O.E. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E83-X3-2...dddeac&vxp=mtr

Not sure if that is the best available price.

Kilen is another brand but don't know if they do an E83 spring.

BTW, it is just the rears than tend to break.
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  #13  
Old 09-12-2013, 07:46 PM
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mlukas161 mlukas161 is offline
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Re: 2005 X3 lowering problem-alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Fish View Post
Mlukas, When I orderd the springs I thought the H&R and Eibach were comparable, and according to Tire Rack they are. 1.2" front-1.2" rear for the Eibach, vs. 1.3" front 1.2" rear for the H&R. These are the springs they list for the standard model. I read your posts last night and you stated no problem with alignment, so that's why I question the alignment shop.

Not sure where to go from here. Did you take before and after measurements?

Thanks.
My gut feeling is that you need to take it to a different aligninment shop, preferably a bmw dealer. There is a noticeable negative camber on our X3, however alignment is within factory spec and we have no unusual tire wear after 25,000 miles. I'm thinking you need a second opinion.
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  #14  
Old 09-12-2013, 09:33 PM
leadboot leadboot is offline
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actual amount lowered

The link provided by nightmare shows the following note for the HR springs.

"Stock ride comfort is retained while a lowered ride height between 1.25 1.8 on average can be expected."

Maybe the springs installed lowered your X3 more than 1.2". Probably good idea to get measurements off another standard X3 to compare to your current ride height. BMW dealer probably could help with those measurements and let you know if they could get alignment in to spec with the HR springs.
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2013, 04:10 AM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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I did find the Lesjofors while searching for some stock height springs. Are they a quality spring? That might be my best option.

I did not want to take it to the BMW dealer here for the alignment because they were the ones who noticed the broken spring and a blown strut and wanted $2200 to do the repairs (2 rear coils and 1 front strut). That's what got me looking at aftermarket. I had all four corners done with labor for $1500.

I figured if I took it to them with the H&R's they would tell me they couldn't align it beacause it wasn't stock. My dealer is 60 miles away and I don't have another one nearby that I can go to for the alignment.

I did not notice if the car started with some negative camber to begin with. I did not take any measurements beforhand because I did not expect to have a problem.

Unless I hear from others with the same kit I will give another shop a shot at the alignment before I replace the H&Rs with the Lesjofors.
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2013, 07:45 AM
usaret usaret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Fish View Post
As for the shop wanting to stay away from the alignment, it was a friend and he did attempt to do it, but at the full range of adjustment it was still out. He showed me on the alignment computer.
OK. I was just throwing it out there as some shops would rather tell you they can't than to tell you they won't and risk pissing you off. I hope you can get it sorted out.
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  #17  
Old 09-13-2013, 09:16 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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U can get oem springs off eBay for 75$ a peice
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  #18  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:49 AM
nightmareuki nightmareuki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadboot View Post
The link provided by nightmare shows the following note for the HR springs.

"Stock ride comfort is retained while a lowered ride height between 1.25 1.8 on average can be expected."

Maybe the springs installed lowered your X3 more than 1.2". Probably good idea to get measurements off another standard X3 to compare to your current ride height. BMW dealer probably could help with those measurements and let you know if they could get alignment in to spec with the HR springs.
Quote:
Front and Rear fitment
Ride Height: Moderate Lowering
Avg low 1.3"F 1.2"R
Read the model spec not whole product range specs
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  #19  
Old 09-13-2013, 11:00 AM
nightmareuki nightmareuki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Fish View Post
Nightmare-I gues I am not seeing your point? The link you posted says 2005 x3 standard model and lists the spring I used.

As for the shop wanting to stay away from the alignment, it was a friend and he did attempt to do it, but at the full range of adjustment it was still out. He showed me on the alignment computer.

I would have used stock spring height, but the improved stance sounded like the way to
go as that was what everyone was offering.
according to amazon
Quote:
H&R 50433 Sport Spring
Sport Spring
Front lowering: 1.6 inch
Rear lowering: 1.5 inch
vs
Tirerack
Quote:
Front and Rear fitment
Ride Height: Moderate Lowering
Avg low 1.3"F 1.2"R
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  #20  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:18 PM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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Sorry Nightmare, I still don't see where you're going with this. The springs are listed for the standard model x3. This is supposed to be the part number for springs that should bolt up with no other mods according to the sales person I spoke with. It is not the kit for the sport model, which is 29378-2, according to TR.
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  #21  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:57 PM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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DUDe you bought the wrong springs...
you yelled at me cause your "new"
you didn't want any advice?

whats the problem

you have the 2 options
i tried to tell you kindly what you needed to do.. and you yelled at me... and then we are still here disusing your wrong purchase

**** or get off the pot...

new CORRECT NON sport model springs..
OR!!!
camber kit
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  #22  
Old 09-14-2013, 04:49 AM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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I asked for feedback from someone who has used these springs and your response was to say that I ordered the wrong ones. I have shown the part numbers for the standard model X3 and the sport model X3. I ordered the springs for the standard model as per the Tire Rack sales persons recommendation. I realize the springs are NOT the origional Stock length, and never thought they were.

They are NOT the springs for the Sport Model-Look it up on Tire Rack. When you can show me a link that states the 50433's are for the 2005 BMWX3 Sport Model I will apologize for yelling at you.
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  #23  
Old 09-14-2013, 09:58 AM
Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/S...=Sport+Package

there ya go boss..

you orderd those? for a 05 2.5

2nd one down..
SPORT PACKAGE

what do you have a 3.0?


http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/S...kage+Staggered
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/S...=Sport+Package

Or these...


anyway... back to the point... we should be focusing on how to fix the problem... not what caused it
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Last edited by Burning2nd; 09-14-2013 at 10:02 AM.
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  #24  
Old 09-14-2013, 10:47 AM
Supercourse Supercourse is online now
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As to the suspension components difference between the Sport and non-Sport 2005 X3:
- the part nos. for the shocks, struts, sway bar, bushings, and springs are different
- for the springs the difference is in spring rate, not length of spring (or ride height)

The 50433 Sport spring is H&R's designation for their base spring, the next level being a Super Sport spring.
The amount the 50433 will lower the 2005 X3 (whether a X3 std. or X3 Sport) is an estimate on H&R's part.

Previous posters have found this to be as much as 2" (that could be a be rounded up estimate) - see posts # 8,9,10 and 11 in:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=451386
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2013, 06:11 AM
K-Fish K-Fish is offline
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Supercourse, thanks for that link, that is the thread I wish I found when I was searching my problem last week. Madurodave is stating exactly what I suspected, you must use camber correction to use these springs. That should be known and told by Tire Rack when you order them.

I see now that they list the same spring for all the models of my X3. The number I posted above for the sport model was for an X5, a slip of my fat finger in the pulldown menu.

Since Mlukas isn't having any issues then the Eibachs must not lower the car as much as H&Rs. I debated back and forth before purchasing and bought the H&Rs in the end because the majority of the posts I read comparing both said the H&Rs would be a bit more comfortable than the Eibachs.

At this point I am not going to risk wasting more money to try to make these work. I will go back to a stock height spring.

would I be correct in assuming the Bilteins I bought will work with the stock height springs?
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