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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #126  
Old 05-22-2013, 05:33 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Finally Done!

Finished the coolant pipe, water pump, thermostat, alternator, new hoses, RH cylinder cover gasket (valve cover), new NGK platinum plugs today.


I did the work pretty much proactive as I have 187K on the clock and my local Indy who doesn't work on my car about passes out each time I tell him I have 187K, it blows his mind. He is from Austria and he states of I have Wednesday car. Monday the BMW folks are recovering from the weekend and by Thursday they are getting ready for the weekend.

I used the Uro Pipe. The install is straight forward however on my first attempt I cut the front pipe seal which set me back a day. I also spent about 2 hours trying to order the front seal for the Uro Pipe. ECS Tuning told me they do not stock it and stated I could just order a new Uro Kit. (No Way!).

I got the P/N for the seal only kit from Uro however they only ship to businesses. The P/N for the Seal Only kit is 11141439975-2. It has 3 pipe o'rings, rear o'ring and front seal for about 31 bucks.

I ordered from Rockauto (2 kits). I still have 1 new kit so if anyone PM's me I would be glad to sell it.

Second time is a charm. The Uro pipe install went well. While I was waiting I did all the other stuff. I should be good to go for about another 100 - 150K.

The RH head pic below to me is amazingly good for a 187K mile engine. I have used only Castrol first 100K and Mobil 1 thereafter. I have only done a couple half cycle oil changes.



I am glad to be done!
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  #127  
Old 05-22-2013, 05:35 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Good job! Told you that front seal is a %$#@!

Everything go back together ok?
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  #128  
Old 05-22-2013, 05:50 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Went back together very well and started on first attempt. Drove around the rest of the afternoon with no problems. When it cools down I will check the coolant level, but the refill process seemed straight forward.

Thanks for your posts, very helpful.
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  #129  
Old 05-22-2013, 05:51 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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How was that valve cover gasket to change vs. the coolant pipe? I am going to need to change my passenger side + timing cover at some point
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  #130  
Old 05-22-2013, 05:59 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Schpenxel,


I am still baffled on the relation of the weep hole and the coolant pipe. I know I had a senior moment on the valley pan filled with coolant.

I had the water pump off for replacement as well. The coolant pipe butts right to the pipe (insert) that is on the fron-side block where you mount the water pump. I saw no other passage or hole that leads from the coolant pipe that could possibly get to the weep hole. And if the coolant pipe seal leaked wouldn't it just go back in to the valley pan?

Any insight on this?
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  #131  
Old 05-22-2013, 06:06 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
Schpenxel,


I am still baffled on the relation of the weep hole and the coolant pipe. I know I had a senior moment on the valley pan filled with coolant.

I had the water pump off for replacement as well. The coolant pipe butts right to the pipe (insert) that is on the fron-side block where you mount the water pump. I saw no other passage or hole that leads from the coolant pipe that could possibly get to the weep hole. And if the coolant pipe seal leaked wouldn't it just go back in to the valley pan?

Any insight on this?
It's basically between the timing cover/block that it leaks. The only seal there to keep water in is the coolant pipe seal--there's no other gasket (is my understanding anyways..)

Here's a look at the back of the timing cover.. you can see how the circle where the coolant pipe goes has a path over to the weep hole.

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  #132  
Old 05-22-2013, 06:24 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
How was that valve cover gasket to change vs. the coolant pipe? I am going to need to change my passenger side + timing cover at some point
With the intake and fuel rail out for the coolant pipe it was a little faster. The main issue is clearance to get the cover off and over the cam position sensor connector. The easiest way (I have done both LH and RH now) Is remove fuel rail ( or take out entire intake) take out the back air intake ducts ( I mean the intake ducts bolted to the firewall not all the cosmetic stuff. Its the back piece that sits under the cross member brace. Its a real tight fit ou just have to keep your cam connector safe and work your cover out. I have heard of guys lowering the motor to get the clearance. If you take out that ducting you will have the clearance. I spent about 4 hours just on the RH cover.

Loosen the air conditioning lines that come out from the DME area. make clearance by moving as much wiring out of the way.

The tricky part is not breaking the composite cover and get new spark plug tubes. You can see at realoem.

Putting back together and getting spark plug tubes aligned with cover was a challenge but just takes patience. You pretty much have to get everything seated and try not to rely on using the cover bolts to seat the cover. My Indy back in Jax recommended high heat and oil resistant gasket sealer on the front corners where the cover gasket will lay over the top of the timing gasket (birds-eye view). Also there are two lobes at the rear and place a very small amount of sealant in each crook.

Get new o'rings for your intake and exhaust sensors.
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  #133  
Old 05-23-2013, 12:04 PM
racooper3 racooper3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
How was that valve cover gasket to change vs. the coolant pipe? I am going to need to change my passenger side + timing cover at some point
I changed mine back in Nov. I replaced all o-rings and gaskets above the valve cover. PM me and I'll send you my PDF that has all the part numbers and TIS guide for doing this job. You'll need to remove the vacuum pump too. There is an o-ring there too. I ended up reusing mine, but used a bit of grease to hold it in when putting it back on. No leaks so far. Follow advise by not using the bolts on VC to align the cover. You need to make sure it is on snug before you start tightening all the bolts or risk cracking the plastic cover.
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  #134  
Old 05-24-2013, 02:32 AM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
It's basically between the timing cover/block that it leaks. The only seal there to keep water in is the coolant pipe seal--there's no other gasket (is my understanding anyways..)

Here's a look at the back of the timing cover.. you can see how the circle where the coolant pipe goes has a path over to the weep hole.

Ok now I see the relation to the leak and weep hole. Is there a gasket that fails also on the flat surface?


I drive around quite a bit yesterday and all is still well. The coolant level was good when I checked cold in the morning.
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  #135  
Old 05-24-2013, 05:16 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
Ok now I see the relation to the leak and weep hole. Is there a gasket that fails also on the flat surface?


I drive around quite a bit yesterday and all is still well. The coolant level was good when I checked cold in the morning.
I don't think there is a gasket at all in the area where the coolant pipe goes. I'm almost certain it's just the plastic'ish seal on the coolant pipe that does the sealing in that area

Of course other areas of the cover have a gasket to keep oil in (well, supposedly. They aren't very good at that either..)

edit: here's a picture of the gaskets. it looks like it has one that goes around the outside perimeter of that area, but not one for the hole where the coolant pipe goes


Last edited by schpenxel; 05-24-2013 at 05:17 AM.
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  #136  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:48 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Here is an interesting picture I found that shows how the coolant flows through the block.. and clearly shows coolant in the "valley"
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  #137  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:32 AM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Thanks for posting. BTW Mine is still doing great. I have just over 192K and a good ( I think) 4K miles since my repair.
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  #138  
Old 07-29-2013, 06:48 AM
micosan micosan is offline
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Hogie and Schpenxel or Anyone Else,

1. What's the trick to installing the URO pipe into the front of the engine without damaging the seal? The URO video showed to place a wrench handle at the back end of the pipe to leverage the pipe into the front seal. about 3:20 time mark. Leverage tool was also mentioned on page 9 of the URO instructions. http://www.oembimmerparts.com/v/vspf...75RINSTALL.pdf
a. I don't recall anyone using the AGA pipe mentioning this issue but it may be they had the same concerns but just haven't stated anything.
2. Did either of you use the 0.020" shims at the rear of the pipe?
3. Was there any forward or aft play in the pipe after locking the pipe into place with the Spirolux Lock ring?
a. Do you see anyway the Spirolux Locking ring could slip or unlock?
4. Was the pipe metal thickness or pipe gauge the same size as the OEM pipe?
5. Could you determine why the rear nylon packing piece is angled and why it had to be placed facing upward?
6. What do you like about the URO over the AGA pipe?
a. Obviously the URO cost much less than the AGA pipe.
b. I like that the URO pipe does not have the big tightening wheels in the middle which can cause some water flow disturbance.
c. I believe the URO pipe rear packing nylon allows the pipe to expand and contract easier than the AGA pipe but I haven't review many AGA configurations. I think the URO has only one configuration that is use for all applications. I've seen two configurations for AGA.
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Last edited by micosan; 07-29-2013 at 07:10 AM. Reason: punctuation
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  #139  
Old 07-29-2013, 06:54 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micosan View Post
Hogie and Schpenxel or Anyone Else,

1. What's the trick to installing the URO pipe into the front of the engine without damaging the seal? The URO video showed to place a wrench handle at the back end of the pipe to leverage the pipe into the front seal. about 3:20 time mark. Leverage tool was also mentioned on page 9 of the URO instructions. http://www.oembimmerparts.com/v/vspf...75RINSTALL.pdf
a. I don't recall anyone using the AGA pipe mentioning this issue but it may be they had the same concerns but just haven't stated anything.
2. Did either of you use the 0.020" shims at the rear of the pipe?
3. Was there any forward or aft play in the pipe after locking the pipe into place with the Spirolux Lock ring?
a. Do you see anyway the Spirolux Locking ring could slip or unlock?
4. Was the pipe metal thickness or pipe gauge the same size as the OEM pipe?
5. Could you determine why the rear nylon packing piece is angled and why it had to be placed facing upward?
6. What do you like about the URO over the AGA pipe?
a. Obviously the URO cost much less than the AGA pipe?
b. I like that the URO pipe does not have the big tightening wheels in the middle which can cause some water flow disturbance.
c. I believe the URO pipe rear packing nylon allows the pipe to expand and contract easier than the AGA pipe but I haven't review many AGA configurations. I think the URO has only one configuration that is use for all applications. I've seen two configurations for AGA.
1 - it is a PAIN. I would order an extra seal or two if possible. The trick is just sheer force, without being so rough on the seal that it messes it up. You have to get the seal pushed down into the groove far enough all the way around, so that you can get the rest of the seal in.. if one section isn't quite in far enough, the last bit of the seal won't be able to seat down.. I used a 3/8" extension (the round part of the big end that connects to a ratchet) to push it in if I remember correctly. It took me a solid hour to get that thing in and I was lucky the seal didn't leak. I used a pick to get it out at least 7 or 8 times before I finally got it right.

a. Leveraging the pipe into the seal and getting the seal into the groove are two different things. Getting the seal in is the hard part. Leveraging the pipe into the seal after that isn't hard.. they will slide in relatively easy if everything is right. I held the pipes in the finished position pretty easily while sliding the locking ring into place without any issues.

2. I had one shim leftover--I think I used 2, maybe 3?

3. Very minimal if any. Certainly not enough to matter. It doesn't really need any pressure holding it fore and aft.. it goes through the seals so as long as it stays in them it's fine.

a. Not a chance. I could barely get the thing on it was so tight and think I would have to cut the pipe off if I ever needed to get it off. It's not going anywhere

4. It was plenty thick.

5. The block is angled there, it's just part of the design and in all the castings.. the plastic piece is just designed to mate up with the block solidly

6. the price.

b. I doubt it would make any real difference

c. I'm not sure what different configurations there are? I just know it worked for me

Last edited by schpenxel; 07-29-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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  #140  
Old 08-04-2013, 07:10 AM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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"
a. I don't recall anyone using the AGA pipe mentioning this issue but it may be they had the same concerns but just haven't stated anything. I used a piece of wood instead of a wrench handle.
2. Did either of you use the 0.020" shims at the rear of the pipe? I did not have to use any of the shims. Ring spacer yes, but no shims. I dry fitted the piece and it measured out well.
3. Was there any forward or aft play in the pipe after locking the pipe into place with the Spirolux Lock ring? No, none. Quite a precise fit.
a. Do you see anyway the Spirolux Locking ring could slip or unlock? I was concerned about this but the Spirolux snaps into the groove. I imagine it would take a lot of force beyond coolant pressure or vibrations to dislodge it.
4. Was the pipe metal thickness or pipe gauge the same size as the OEM pipe? I think it was equivalent.
5. Could you determine why the rear nylon packing piece is angled and why it had to be placed facing upward? As posted, there is a slight angle at the rear. This keeps the pipe in perfect alignment.
6. What do you like about the URO over the AGA pipe? Well I don't have much experience on the difference. But what I did not like about the AGA was the twisting nut and O'ring that was just pressed with the nut. I have a lot of hydraulic experience and the 3 O'rings could easily hold 3,000 PSI. (In hydraulic terms).
a. Obviously the URO cost much less than the AGA pipe.
b. I like that the URO pipe does not have the big tightening wheels in the middle which can cause some water flow disturbance.
c. I believe the URO pipe rear packing nylon allows the pipe to expand and contract easier than the AGA pipe but I haven't review many AGA configurations. I think the URO has only one configuration that is use for all applications. I've seen two configurations for AGA. "


Mine is doing fine since the repair. If you are going to do the water pipe, do consider changing items that you must have the intake off for. SAS "Y" pipe, coolant hoses, SAS air valves, Clean SAS air tubes, etc.

I also changed my water pump at the same time when doing so you also gain access to the coolant pipe from the front of the engine meaning you can monitor your o'ring for proper seat.

I clipped the first o'ring and I bet I would not have known unless I had that water pump off. Buy an extra o'ring kit. ( rockauto)

If you want genuine BMW hoses and other stuff I recommend tomkinsonbmwparts.com . Online orders will get you a 30% of of list. I ordered all my coolant hoses, radiator hoses and vent tube from them.
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  #141  
Old 09-13-2013, 05:52 PM
jdub4051 jdub4051 is offline
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Okay. So I did it. I purchased the URO pipe for 199.00 on ebay (Coolant Water Transfer Pipe Tube Replacement Kit Collapsible 11141439975) and a local third party BMW shop did the install for $960. Total price: 199.00 + $74 for coolant + $960 for labor. Grand total = 1233.00. I asked the BMW tech about the AllGermanAuto one and he said that the URO pipe is just as effective if not better due to the 3 rubber rings. Not to mention that it has a locking mechanism once you fit the pipe in.

Its been several months and all I can say is...dam i saved alot of money. Stupid BMW dealership wanted $4000. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. whatever.
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  #142  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:25 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Awesome!

One thing--the 3 o-rings that seal the two halves of the pipe matter very very little. The leak is with the front seal. If one of the aftermarket pipes were to leak in the middle, it's doubtful anyone would even notice. I would wager that you could drill a hole in the thing and still be fine honestly
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  #143  
Old 09-13-2013, 08:07 PM
Cre8 Cre8 is offline
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Great read, now I know what I am doing once I replace my water pump!! Thank you schpenxel and all who chimed in, amazing what I have learned in the few weeks I have been here.
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  #144  
Old 09-14-2013, 07:58 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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I have a feeling the coolant pipe install (specifically the front seal) goes easier with the water pump off, so may be easiest to do it all at once
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  #145  
Old 09-15-2013, 12:43 PM
ronvf ronvf is offline
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Front o-ring secret?

Hello, just following your thread and your detailed instructions, thank you. I know you mentioned the front o-ring being a challenge,and I can attest to that now as well. So what was the secret? I have been trying and trying, I have taken the o-ring out multiple time, triple checked that there is no remaining old gasket but still I cannot get the pipe past the lip of the oring.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
P.s., just read your detailed post about the front seal above.i have done all of what you mentioned doing, still no luck. I also have not removed the water pump. I guess that will be next if the next attempt doesn't work...

Last edited by ronvf; 09-15-2013 at 01:15 PM.
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  #146  
Old 09-16-2013, 10:16 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronvf View Post
Hello, just following your thread and your detailed instructions, thank you. I know you mentioned the front o-ring being a challenge,and I can attest to that now as well. So what was the secret? I have been trying and trying, I have taken the o-ring out multiple time, triple checked that there is no remaining old gasket but still I cannot get the pipe past the lip of the oring.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
P.s., just read your detailed post about the front seal above.i have done all of what you mentioned doing, still no luck. I also have not removed the water pump. I guess that will be next if the next attempt doesn't work...
Sorry for the slow response--I am almost sure the o-ring isn't seated deep enough in your case. It will be almost flush with the surrounding material when it's in right. It is very tough to get it to seat. Once it's in correctly putting the pipe in will be no trouble at all. Forcing it will just mess up the seal

Pulling the water pump may be the better/easier way to do it honestly--at worst it should give a lot more visibility. I was basically laying inside the engine to try to get a decent look at where the seal goes when I did mine, lol
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  #147  
Old 09-16-2013, 10:24 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Here are some pics I don't think I got around to posting before. I THINK this is when I finally got it in right..





Mine looked like this before cleaning and everything--the seal has to fill in that entire gap between the timing cover and block basically, and to do that it has to be seated way down in there
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  #148  
Old 09-19-2013, 03:52 PM
ronvf ronvf is offline
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Schpenxel, thanks for the info. I did take the water pump off and then by carefully using a small flat head screw driver used it to push down the few places that were hanging up. Wow! What a bitch of a time that whole thing was. After doing that, my secondary air issue, my valve cover gaskets, vacuum pump seal and oil sending unit, getting that tube in was the worst! I used a drumel tool to clean the seat and there wasn't anything else I could have done to get that gasket falter in the seat.
I'll be posting in the other thread my update on the secondary air issues. In short, she passed NY state emissions today!

Thanks again.
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  #149  
Old 04-15-2014, 05:45 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Get that crap out of my thread.

Why don't we just JB weld it while we're at it?
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  #150  
Old 05-31-2014, 06:11 AM
eazye757 eazye757 is offline
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hate to bump such an old thread but I'm in the process of replacing my coolant pipe now with the URO pipe. I'm ready to remove my intake but can't figure out how to disconnect the fuel line. the little black plastic clip on the line feels flimsy and I fear I'll break it.

Can anyone provide any pointers??

Thanks
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