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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 09-19-2013, 06:25 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by greywolf328i View Post
Show me where you read/saw that. All I have seen has said the ATS is "almost" as good as the 3, never a mention of more fun to drive. In fact, most have said that the power delivery was unrefined and did not make a good sound. As for ride, most stated it was close, but the 3 still proved to be better in execution.

Don't get me wrong, the ATS is a serious contender for the class, but no one in the automotive press has put it over the 3.
Dynamically it is better.

"This chassis... Unbelievable. I'm just blown away by how well this car drives. Those two are luxury sport sedans. This is a luxury sports car." Indeed. When I was pushing the Caddy hard up in the mountains above Malibu, I was also overcome by the sensation that I was driving a sports car. Something very similar to a Nissan 370Z, in fact."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2fO5xQ7lT

"Our grave concern here is that, with each new car it introduces, BMW seems to wrap more padding around the sensations and feel that make them great-while its competitors only zero in more tightly on those same attributes. (We're convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against the F30.) The ATS is unquestionably the more satisfying sports sedan of these two."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-3
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  #102  
Old 09-19-2013, 07:08 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Dynamically it is better.
Have you actually driven an ATS yet? I looked through your posts just now and I couldn't find one where you give a firsthand report. I didn't read every one, so I may have missed it.
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  #103  
Old 09-20-2013, 06:11 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Have you actually driven an ATS yet? I looked through your posts just now and I couldn't find one where you give a firsthand report. I didn't read every one, so I may have missed it.
Nope. No 6 speed manuals in stock near me, but what does that have to do with my post? I will post a review as soon as I get some significant time behind the wheel of one and I don't mean a 15 minute test drive.
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  #104  
Old 09-20-2013, 08:32 AM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Have you actually driven an ATS yet?
Yes! Prior to ordering my F30 320i, I test drove an ATS 2.0T 6MT Performance Collection extensively. The ATS 2.0T Standard model is also available with a 6MT at a significantly lower price. The latter is my preferred configuration, but no such cars were available at Washington, D.C. and Baltimore area dealerships back then.

As LegendsNeverDie stated, ATS easily exceeds F30 from a driving dynamics perspective; the 2.0T, 6MT Cadillac exemplifies the sport component of "sport sedan" in high fidelity - more so than any comparable, unmodified F30 extant.

There were three factors that prompted me to choose the F30, despite the ATS' superiority in fun-to-drive characteristics:

1.) The Bimmerfest and BMW CCA communities, including driver training clinics and autocross events hosted by most CCA chapters.
2.) European Delivery.
3.) Lower purchase price due to ED discount and fewer unnecessary frills such as full power seat adjustments and satellite radio.

Here's the ATS I drove:


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Last edited by gkr778; 09-20-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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  #105  
Old 09-20-2013, 09:46 AM
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kpgray kpgray is offline
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
WOW, a $1,200 credit for the manual and only $795 for Navigation?!?
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  #106  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:44 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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WOW, a $1,200 credit for the manual and only $795 for Navigation?!?
They are a really good deal. Right now you can get $3,000 cash back and $1,200 credit if you go for the manual. In my area, you can get a very well equipped Performance pack ATS for well under $40K. It does not include the MRC but includes such goodies as the Brembo brakes, mechanical LSD, leather, HID lights and BOSE stereo system with CUE.
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  #107  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:49 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
They are a really good deal. Right now you can get $3,000 cash back and $1,200 credit if you go for the manual. In my area, you can get a very well equipped Performance pack ATS for well under $40K. It does not include the MRC but includes such goodies as the Brembo brakes, mechanical LSD, leather, HID lights and BOSE stereo system with CUE.
Had I not gotten my MSport for the price I did, I would have walked to Caddy and taken a similar car to what you describe.
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  #108  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:59 AM
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Dr. 328xi Dr. 328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Had I not gotten my MSport for the price I did, I would have walked to Caddy and taken a similar car to what you describe.
I wish I could be this open minded about Cadillac.

It's not a prestige issue, as other than the 328 and the A4/allroad, I VERY seriously considered a Ford Fusion Titanium (actually had started some paperwork on a special order with Ford before choosing the F30) when I was car shopping this spring, and no one is getting into the blue oval to impress anyone (outside of the truck world anyway).

However, I just can't get past the image of Cadillac being a retirement car. I get that the CTS-V is a performance monster, and they're trying really hard to change their image and attract younger buyers...but...I just...can't.
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  #109  
Old 09-20-2013, 11:12 AM
greywolf328i greywolf328i is offline
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Re: 328i, the every day normal car

The economy of the ats is what talked me out of it. I checked several forums and fuelly for averages. Most people were lucky to get 24 with highway driving. That an the AT did not have the same glowing reviews as the 8AT in the 3. Both were deal breakers for me. My car is a daily commuter, not a weekend cruiser.

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  #110  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:27 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I wish I could be this open minded about Cadillac.

It's not a prestige issue, as other than the 328 and the A4/allroad, I VERY seriously considered a Ford Fusion Titanium (actually had started some paperwork on a special order with Ford before choosing the F30) when I was car shopping this spring, and no one is getting into the blue oval to impress anyone (outside of the truck world anyway).

However, I just can't get past the image of Cadillac being a retirement car. I get that the CTS-V is a performance monster, and they're trying really hard to change their image and attract younger buyers...but...I just...can't.
BMW is my go to brand not only for the cars themselves but also for the entire sales, finance, and service experience. BMW feels like home while Cadillac just feels like a very strange land - dominated by a culture that is at odds with my life experience....this is probably all in my head, but despite the big bucks spent by Cadillac to lure me, I'm not going there....Furthermore, my experience - BMW does what it takes to keep its frequent flyers in the BMW fold.
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  #111  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:42 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
BMW does what it takes to keep its frequent flyers in the BMW fold.
Frequent flyer, huh? Do I need to get a BMW airborne to qualify? jk

Anyway, after my superb European Delivery experience at BMW Welt, I don't wish to acquire future automobiles any other way. Similarly, BMW is my preferred brand of motorcycle/maxi-scooter when I'm ready to purchase one of those.

And while it's true that neither Bimmerfest nor BMW CCA require members to drive or ride BMW products, I think the overall experience with both is enhanced by having one (or more).
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  #112  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:49 PM
jamesms69 jamesms69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I wish I could be this open minded about Cadillac.

It's not a prestige issue, as other than the 328 and the A4/allroad, I VERY seriously considered a Ford Fusion Titanium (actually had started some paperwork on a special order with Ford before choosing the F30) when I was car shopping this spring, and no one is getting into the blue oval to impress anyone (outside of the truck world anyway).

However, I just can't get past the image of Cadillac being a retirement car. I get that the CTS-V is a performance monster, and they're trying really hard to change their image and attract younger buyers...but...I just...can't.
I totally agree. Besides the image, I can't get passed how they actually look. The lines just do not appeal to me!
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  #113  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:17 PM
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Dr. 328xi Dr. 328xi is offline
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
BMW is my go to brand not only for the cars themselves but also for the entire sales, finance, and service experience. BMW feels like home while Cadillac just feels like a very strange land - dominated by a culture that is at odds with my life experience....this is probably all in my head, but despite the big bucks spent by Cadillac to lure me, I'm not going there....Furthermore, my experience - BMW does what it takes to keep its frequent flyers in the BMW fold.
I agree with you there - in fact, I just started a thread (mostly for my own catharsis) about my experience with BMW vs Audi in my most recent purchase, and the "BMW experience" was what sealed the deal. Prior to my experience with my BMW dealer, I was convinced I would drive Audis til I died.
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  #114  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:21 PM
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kpgray kpgray is offline
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
BMW is my go to brand not only for the cars themselves but also for the entire sales, finance, and service experience. BMW feels like home while Cadillac just feels like a very strange land - dominated by a culture that is at odds with my life experience....this is probably all in my head, but despite the big bucks spent by Cadillac to lure me, I'm not going there....Furthermore, my experience - BMW does what it takes to keep its frequent flyers in the BMW fold.
The old Cadillac image of big cars and sub-par reliability will be hard to overcome. I am from Michigan and had many relatives work in the auto industry over the decades. Back in the 60s, the motors were assembled by hand. For example, at one time, the pistons were hand fitted into bores by 0.0005 sizes to ensure as close to blueprinted assembly as possible. The Cadillac transmissions were assembled with the more expensive premium gaskets, seals vs. the other GM brands. At one time Cadillac was even offered by executives to build a mid-sized car to compete with the Chevelles and GTO's. That would have been quite the car, a mid-size Cadillac with a 472 CI motor. Sadly, that separation of quality disappeared with cost saving "Platforms" that dictated all domestic vehicles were built from the same frame, engines, etc. to save costs. The brand never even bothered with the European and Asian sport sedan segment until they were outsold a few years back by another premium brand. Arrogance can be expensive! It is completely understandable to feel at odds. But you must give credit where credit is due. Even ten years ago, the thought of a Cadillac that performs on par with a BMW, I donít think so? The attractive price of the Cadillac will keep pressure on BMW to provide a great product at a good price! We are living in interesting times!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I wish I could be this open minded about Cadillac.

It's not a prestige issue, as other than the 328 and the A4/allroad, I VERY seriously considered a Ford Fusion Titanium (actually had started some paperwork on a special order with Ford before choosing the F30) when I was car shopping this spring, and no one is getting into the blue oval to impress anyone (outside of the truck world anyway).

However, I just can't get past the image of Cadillac being a retirement car. I get that the CTS-V is a performance monster, and they're trying really hard to change their image and attract younger buyers...but...I just...can't.
I bought my Wife an SRX. She drove a X3, RX300, Q7, etc. She preferred the Cadillac look, feel, price. The vehicle has been trouble free for 4 years, she is still happy with it so I cannot complain. I drove the new ATS last fall but just liked the look and feel of the BMW better. My Daughters both drive BMWs, an X1 & X3.
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  #115  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:54 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Had I not gotten my MSport for the price I did, I would have walked to Caddy and taken a similar car to what you describe.
Yeap. IMO M sport 328/320 or turbo ATS is the best bang for the buck in this segment.
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  #116  
Old 09-20-2013, 02:03 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I wish I could be this open minded about Cadillac.

It's not a prestige issue, as other than the 328 and the A4/allroad, I VERY seriously considered a Ford Fusion Titanium (actually had started some paperwork on a special order with Ford before choosing the F30) when I was car shopping this spring, and no one is getting into the blue oval to impress anyone (outside of the truck world anyway).

However, I just can't get past the image of Cadillac being a retirement car. I get that the CTS-V is a performance monster, and they're trying really hard to change their image and attract younger buyers...but...I just...can't.
It is the opposite for me. I really enjoy BMW service experience and community but I can't get past the image of BMW brand.... I would much, much rather be associated with a retirement brand than this:
https://www.bimmerfest.com/news/7153...find-by-yahoo/

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=715251
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  #117  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:17 PM
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mdsbuc mdsbuc is offline
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When I sold my E60 5er I was ready to jump into an F10. That was until a few test drives totally turned me off the car. I never liked the E90 for a lot of reasons, so it was not a suitable replacement for me. After various test drives in a variety of cars I ended up with a Cadillac CTS equipped with the FE3 sport package, LSD, and Recaro seats. The car was the closest thing in driving feel to my E60 that I cold find. The Cadillac dealer experience was top notch too. My dealer, who also carried Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, McLaren and Land Rover, were no slackers when it came to customer service.

But, when we sold the Cadillac I was happy to find that the F30 provided everything I needed. We really wanted to do another ED, so that was a big factor in the new car decision. And although the ATS is a great handling car, it has some of the same problems for me that the E90 had. It's too small in the back seat, and the trunk is too small.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if 1) I didn't want to do an ED, and 2) the ATS had more room in the back, and 3) it had a larger trunk.....I'd have no qualms in buying the ATS. Cadillac is building really great cars these days.

I'm really interested in seeing how the new CTS will perform when it hits the market. My guess is that it will give the F10 a run for the money.
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  #118  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:58 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by mdsbuc View Post
When I sold my E60 5er I was ready to jump into an F10. That was until a few test drives totally turned me off the car. I never liked the E90 for a lot of reasons, so it was not a suitable replacement for me. After various test drives in a variety of cars I ended up with a Cadillac CTS equipped with the FE3 sport package, LSD, and Recaro seats. The car was the closest thing in driving feel to my E60 that I cold find. The Cadillac dealer experience was top notch too. My dealer, who also carried Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, McLaren and Land Rover, were no slackers when it came to customer service.

But, when we sold the Cadillac I was happy to find that the F30 provided everything I needed. We really wanted to do another ED, so that was a big factor in the new car decision. And although the ATS is a great handling car, it has some of the same problems for me that the E90 had. It's too small in the back seat, and the trunk is too small.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if 1) I didn't want to do an ED, and 2) the ATS had more room in the back, and 3) it had a larger trunk.....I'd have no qualms in buying the ATS. Cadillac is building really great cars these days.

I'm really interested in seeing how the new CTS will perform when it hits the market. My guess is that it will give the F10 a run for the money.
I completely understand. I am not a fan of the F10 . I currently drive an E90 but I find the F30 size wise to be pretty much perfect. I think it strikes a perfect balance for everyday use. Also Cadillac has been on a roll lately. The upcoming CTS V sport is nothing short of astonishing and the current ATS really leads its segment where it matters most.
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  #119  
Old 09-20-2013, 09:12 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. 328xi View Post
I wish I could be this open minded about Cadillac.

It's not a prestige issue, as other than the 328 and the A4/allroad, I VERY seriously considered a Ford Fusion Titanium (actually had started some paperwork on a special order with Ford before choosing the F30) when I was car shopping this spring, and no one is getting into the blue oval to impress anyone (outside of the truck world anyway).

However, I just can't get past the image of Cadillac being a retirement car. I get that the CTS-V is a performance monster, and they're trying really hard to change their image and attract younger buyers...but...I just...can't.
Nothing wrong with retirement cars. My "retirement" cars include a Porsche 911 GTS convertible and a BMW 335is convertible. It's called retiring in style!
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  #120  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:11 PM
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Dr. 328xi Dr. 328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Nothing wrong with retirement cars. My "retirement" cars include a Porsche 911 GTS convertible and a BMW 335is convertible. It's called retiring in style!
Agreed, that IS retiring in style. The caddie is just retiring :-)


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  #121  
Old 09-21-2013, 04:31 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I completely understand. I am not a fan of the F10 .
The key is to try the xdrive, which still has hydraulic power steering. It is a pinch tighter in the steering.
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  #122  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:00 PM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
Yes! Prior to ordering my F30 320i, I test drove an ATS 2.0T 6MT Performance Collection extensively. The ATS 2.0T Standard model is also available with a 6MT at a significantly lower price. The latter is my preferred configuration, but no such cars were available at Washington, D.C. and Baltimore area dealerships back then.

As LegendsNeverDie stated, ATS easily exceeds F30 from a driving dynamics perspective; the 2.0T, 6MT Cadillac exemplifies the sport component of "sport sedan" in high fidelity - more so than any comparable, unmodified F30 extant.

There were three factors that prompted me to choose the F30, despite the ATS' superiority in fun-to-drive characteristics:

1.) The Bimmerfest and BMW CCA communities, including driver training clinics and autocross events hosted by most CCA chapters.
2.) European Delivery.
3.) Lower purchase price due to ED discount and fewer unnecessary frills such as full power seat adjustments and satellite radio.

Here's the ATS I drove:


my loaded 320i sport, was 10k less than the sticker on this ATS...
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