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E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:50 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Angry Failed smog!!!

I just cant drive this car without spending more money!! so heres the deal my car failed smog bad!!

Iive just rebuilt the whole top end... replaced my cam sensor, crank sensor , o2 sensor, both knock sensors, airfilter, oil, coolant, new vanos and sparkplugs are only 6 months old.... whats the deal?? only upgrade to my motor is M3 cams... and i have a catback exhaust system

I just replaced my DME with a red label two days ago cause my silver label fried and ive only driven about 50miles with the new computer.... could that make a difference?? My cats are only about 2yrs old and my car passed with flying colors last time i smogged it.. what could possibly be bad??

side note... my car seems to have more power when its cold, after its warmed up first gear feels extremely sluggish(i could pull out in 2nd gear and it feels the same as first) and it doesnt seem to pull until after 4krpms(it ran like this before the M3 cams too)

Jason
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:54 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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these are my smog numbers... would new cats change it that much?? i dont wanna spend $300 on new cats if they wont bring my numbers down that much....
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  #3  
Old 09-27-2013, 03:41 PM
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drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
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well, hc indicates a misfire (not running rich....that's co)

to have high hc and high nox with little to no free o2 and 'meh' co2 (kinda low-ish...) is quite a feat.

first things first.

how many miles since your top end rebuild??

oe cats or aftermarket?? direct fit or welded in 'universal' if aftermarket??

if your car ran like poop when warm with the oe cams, it will not run much better with the //M3 cams....

sounds like this could be the actual source of your problem, but i cannot confirm that from here.

engine vacuum??

the 'fired' dme gives me pause as well, since these things don't generally do this on their own, something causes it....and you're not in the water intrusion prone years for that to be of a priary cause.

simple things first, like make sure that you have the proper grade fuel in this thing, and your injectors are not flwing poorly. that could cause a lean misfire and potential high nox and *maybe* be the cause of the warm running issue.

when warmed up, the dme runs in closed loop, meaning the dme takes full control over the fuel trim and not factory presets.

make certain the cooling system is not restricted as well, and that the chassis to engine block grounding is solid.





df
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:56 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
well, hc indicates a misfire (not running rich....that's co)

to have high hc and high nox with little to no free o2 and 'meh' co2 (kinda low-ish...) is quite a feat.

first things first.

how many miles since your top end rebuild??

oe cats or aftermarket?? direct fit or welded in 'universal' if aftermarket??

if your car ran like poop when warm with the oe cams, it will not run much better with the //M3 cams....

sounds like this could be the actual source of your problem, but i cannot confirm that from here.

engine vacuum??

the 'fired' dme gives me pause as well, since these things don't generally do this on their own, something causes it....and you're not in the water intrusion prone years for that to be of a priary cause.

simple things first, like make sure that you have the proper grade fuel in this thing, and your injectors are not flwing poorly. that could cause a lean misfire and potential high nox and *maybe* be the cause of the warm running issue.

when warmed up, the dme runs in closed loop, meaning the dme takes full control over the fuel trim and not factory presets.

make certain the cooling system is not restricted as well, and that the chassis to engine block grounding is solid.





df

Ive only put about 60 miles on the rebuild(i had to do my top end again... long story)
the cats are a single unit aftermarket weld in(the muffler shop that did it did a cruddy job imo) it looks restrictive and no smooth bends, plus the exhaust pipe used on the cats seems to small...

Well i would say the car runs bad.. just first gear feels dead.. considering its the lowest i shouldnt have so much lag.. maybe its cause of my gearing and my 18in rims??

I always run premium fuel and even had an octane booster in my tank(never had a problem smogging cars before with the booster in it)

also banging on the cat reveals some light rattling... and i just checked the out put of exhaust pressure from my car at idle and it feels kinda weak

Jason
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  #5  
Old 09-27-2013, 05:49 PM
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dc_wright dc_wright is offline
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Since you replaced the DME you may not have driven enough miles or through enough run cycles for all of the sensor settings to have settled in. Dino had a similar issue on his car and he found that there's a specific driving cycle you can do to reduce the amount of time it takes to get everything dialed in.
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2013, 06:23 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Re: Failed smog!!!

Well I ordered new cats, I was checking out my buddies 93 bmw and with his stock exhaust system he had 3 times the exhaust flow coming out of his tail pipe at idle than I did, so I know my cats are clogged. but I believe your right, I needed more miles on the car for the computer to learn


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  #7  
Old 09-27-2013, 07:21 PM
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if the cats are rattling then they're not functioning...replace them.

that my or may not affect the driveability concern, but should help greatly with emissions.




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  #8  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:46 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Re: Failed smog!!!

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Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
if the cats are rattling then they're not functioning...replace them.

that my or may not affect the driveability concern, but should help greatly with emissions.




df
Definitely replacing the cats, even just for the fact that my car is not breathing good at all!!

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  #9  
Old 09-28-2013, 12:30 AM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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Just wanted to say thanks for this...
your posts always contain a nugget of gold, DF..

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  #10  
Old 09-29-2013, 02:14 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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Okay kids..
Im having a real pain smogging my E36 this year..
Last time it passed fine.

Running super clean at 25..
Running like a gross polluter at 15..

Installed stock exhaust, intake, & MAF.. to "un-modify" before smog test.

Would a Turner euro HFM chip throw it off that badly..?
I called Turner for some technical information and that failed..
I asked for their DME specialist and all he could tell me is "it dumps more fuel in there at idle".
Apparently "it dumps more fuel in there at idle" is as technical as the monkey at Turner could get.
I didnt know "dumps" was a standard unit for measurement.




Anyone have a STOCK chip for a Silver Label 413 ewsII DME?



Is it really time for a new CAT?

Im going to blow a can of sleaze-foam through the intake..
Im stumped fellas..
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  #11  
Old 09-29-2013, 04:34 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
Okay kids..
Im having a real pain smogging my E36 this year..
Last time it passed fine.

Running super clean at 25..
Running like a gross polluter at 15..

Installed stock exhaust, intake, & MAF.. to "un-modify" before smog test.

Would a Turner euro HFM chip throw it off that badly..?
I called Turner for some technical information and that failed..
I asked for their DME specialist and all he could tell me is "it dumps more fuel in there at idle".
Apparently "it dumps more fuel in there at idle" is as technical as the monkey at Turner could get.
I didnt know "dumps" was a standard unit for measurement.




Anyone have a STOCK chip for a Silver Label 413 ewsII DME?



Is it really time for a new CAT?

Im going to blow a can of sleaze-foam through the intake..
Im stumped fellas..
I do have an extra silver label chip you could try if you like. My buddy did the seafoam thing on his 325i and after he did it his car passed! might work for you too.

btw i found magnaflow cats that will work on our car on amazon for REALLY cheap. havnt gotten them yet but after i get them installed and resmog ill let everyone know how they work.

I got the info from a guy that posted on bimmerforums about his smog problem, he actually had almost the same smog numbers i did and he installed these http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001P9RUU8/..._26725410_item

on his car and passed

Jason
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2013, 07:04 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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Jason,
Glad to hear it worked for your buddys e36.
Im hoping it helps with mine too.. *crossfingerslikeabigsissy*

That IS a PHENOMENAL PRICE for a new cat.. If I have to get new ones, I will be taking these into consideration.

Its looking like a new cat may be in my future.. drag
In my searches, the similar issues that others have experienced all point to a new cat. drag.
I would be interested in the chip as well.. If you are willing to part with it.
THNX & Cheers!
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2013, 04:22 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Finally!!! new magnaflow cats installed and it passed smog!! i got a smoking deal on these magnaflow on amazon.com too! $70 a piece!! 2-1/2inch inlet and outlet and they are CARB approved. So apparently new cats was the problem.

I still feel like my idle to 4k rpm is absolutely gutless but it might just be me with the new cats the muffler shop redid the exhaust from where the exhaust manifolds piping comes together all the way to my umnitza cat bac system. they opened the exhaust piping up to 2-1/2inch so it breathes better. I was expecting a little better bottom end with some better flowing cats and exhaust... but instead it still feels gutless

Jason
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:11 PM
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It passed even with the rattling VANOS? And don't you suppose the performance will get better when the new VANOS is installed?
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:29 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Re: Failed smog!!!

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Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
It passed even with the rattling VANOS? And don't you suppose the performance will get better when the new VANOS is installed?
Haha yeah the rattle isnt very noisey at idle and my exhaust almost over powers the vanos rattle at 2500rpms ..... If your in the car atleast lol

Well I'm not sure, the power loss I feel is from idle too 4k, and the vanos doesn't come into play until after 3500rpms right?

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Old 10-09-2013, 07:35 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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Re: Failed smog!!!

If it's rattling at idle it's affecting it over the whole power band.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:20 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Re: Failed smog!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
If it's rattling at idle it's affecting it over the whole power band.
Well then, I guess I'll find out how much a difference the new vanos will be lol

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Old 10-10-2013, 09:13 AM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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Glad to hear it..

If I cant get her to smog today.. Ill be looking at a new cat.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:12 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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.. DAMMIT

Well...
I went to check my car again at the smog shop.. :angry:
my hc(ppm) is 675 at idle... max is 85 which would make my baby a gross polluter.
my hc(ppm) is 140 at rpm .. max is 50 " " "

C02% is 13.5% .. should be above 14.5%
C0% is .69

I seafoamed the intake this morning..
I did all the normal jaw flapping items.. good fuel, fuel filter, spark plugs, oil change (oil has 300mi now), fresh filter..
I even used a ahem.. Alternative Fuel additive..

smog guy says "buy a new cat"..
I guess its time... Is it time?

Any smog guys out there?
Cheers!
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  #20  
Old 10-10-2013, 06:54 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw-mania View Post
.. DAMMIT

Well...
I went to check my car again at the smog shop.. :angry:
my hc(ppm) is 675 at idle... max is 85 which would make my baby a gross polluter.
my hc(ppm) is 140 at rpm .. max is 50 " " "

C02% is 13.5% .. should be above 14.5%
C0% is .69

I seafoamed the intake this morning..
I did all the normal jaw flapping items.. good fuel, fuel filter, spark plugs, oil change (oil has 300mi now), fresh filter..
I even used a ahem.. Alternative Fuel additive..

smog guy says "buy a new cat"..
I guess its time... Is it time?

Any smog guys out there?
Cheers!

Im no smog tech but i spoke to quite a few about my issue and showed them my smog numbers. They all said new cats would fix it... and they did!

I had horrible numbers just like you! My ppm was so far off i didnt think new cats could possibly change it but they did

Check out amazon for those magnaflow cats
http://www.amazon.com/Magnaflow-3400...ytic+converter

only 4 left!! and at that price i felt like it was worth it.... hell new bmw cats are $500++
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:07 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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I still got that link from last time vmax.. thanks

So you were suffering from similar numbers.. ?
Ok.. thats good to know.
The only searches i found that fit my case are from saab forums.. :ohno:
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  #22  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:15 PM
vmaxman vmaxman is offline
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I still got that link from last time vmax.. thanks

So you were suffering from similar numbers.. ?
Ok.. thats good to know.
The only searches i found that fit my case are from saab forums.. :ohno:
Yes, my ppm and my nox were off the charts high... i may as well have bolted a 800cc holley carb onto my intake

My money is on the cats being bad... pretty much the only thing i hadnt replaced when when i got it smogged and it made all the difference
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:11 PM
bmw-mania bmw-mania is offline
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pretty much the only thing i hadnt replaced when when i got it smogged and it made all the difference
Ditto..
at least there is piece of mind knowing that everything else is up to snuff.

Cats it is.. FCK.
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