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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 10-28-2013, 08:03 PM
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1HOT BMR 1HOT BMR is offline
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Beware of Consequences

If you do your oil changes yourself or somewhere else other than the dealer you might be denied services later - it just happened to me: I did 3 oil changes, one every 7.5K miles before I took the car to the dealer for the 4th just before I was going to drive up to Alaska. I knew that the fuel filter is replaced at 30K (2012 X5d) so I asked for that. I got a story about how the car would be telling me when to change the fuel filter - yeah right. I said nothing and went to Alaska anyway because I have been using the best fuel and another 8K miles or so would not make a difference. It didn't.

When I got back the car was asking for a service again so I took it to the dealer and I reminded my SA that it was due for an air and fuel filter change. He told me no because the fuel and air filters are replaced at the 3rd oil change and they have only done two I showed him receipts for my purchases of BMW oil and filter from a BMW dealer and a receipt from the local mechanic that did the work - but all to no avail, he told me the shop foreman and the area BMW rep had said no.

Why did I choose to do it locally? Because I wanted to avoid the pain of having to schedule an appointment, drive the 60 miles and waste a whole day just to get and oil change. Would I do it again knowing what I know now? Probably. All that is really going to happen is that these services will be delayed until the next oil change . . but still My 2011 550i is in the same situation now. Should I change dealers? Move to another brand? I'm not a BMW long time fan, I just bought these two cars because I like them and there was nothing comparable but I can move on to another brand very easily. It is so easy to get upset to the point of making an irrational decision like "I'll get rid of these car and never buy a BMW again"

I'm going to write a letter complaining to BMW of N.A. Who do you guys suggest I should be addressing this letter to?

Phew! I needed to vent.

Last edited by 1HOT BMR; 10-28-2013 at 09:18 PM. Reason: oil to fuel filter change
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  #2  
Old 10-28-2013, 08:43 PM
pixma pixma is offline
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Yes this BMW free service crap is really driving me crazy. if they are only going to do 2 oil changes during 50000 miles (with 17000 miles each which is the schedule for me) and don't allow their customers do their own change in between, they really shouldn't market it as if it is a big deal.

The condition based schedule is also crap. They can program it to be whatever schedule they like. If it is really condition based, it should auto adjust after I did an oil change and shouldn't need manual reset.

Marketing the free service as if it is a great deal, price it into the vehicle, but then program a crappy schedule. Come up with misleading name for the diesel version in the US. They make great vehicles and I like my X5, but their business practice makes me sick and just goes to show that BMW as a company is no different than its dealers. Full of trap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
If you do your oil changes yourself or somewhere else other than the dealer you might be denied services later - it just happened to me: I did 3 oil changes, one every 7.5K miles before I took the car to the dealer for the 4th just before I was going to drive up to Alaska. I knew that the fuel filter is replaced at 30K (2012 X5d) so I asked for that. I got a story about how the car would be telling me when to change the fuel filter - yeah right. I said nothing and went to Alaska anyway because I have been using the best fuel and another 8K miles or so would not make a difference. It didn't.

When I got back the car was asking for a service again so I took it to the dealer and I reminded my SA that it was due for an air and oil filter change. He told me no because the fuel and air filters are replaced at the 3rd oil change and they have only done two I showed him receipts for my purchases of BMW oil and filter from a BMW dealer and a receipt from the local mechanic that did the work - but all to no avail, he told me the shop foreman and the area BMW rep had said no.

Why did I choose to do it locally? Because I wanted to avoid the pain of having to schedule an appointment, drive the 60 miles and waste a whole day just to get and oil change. Would I do it again knowing what I know now? Probably. All that is really going to happen is that these services will be delayed until the next oil change . . but still My 2011 550i is in the same situation now. Should I change dealers? Move to another brand? I'm not a BMW long time fan, I just bought these two cars because I like them and there was nothing comparable but I can move on to another brand very easily. It is so easy to get upset to the point of making an irrational decision like "I'll get rid of these car and never buy a BMW again"

I'm going to write a letter complaining to BMW of N.A. Who do you guys suggest I should be addressing this letter to?

Phew! I needed to vent.

Last edited by pixma; 10-28-2013 at 08:58 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:24 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Beware of Consequences

It's not free. You prepaid for it when you bought the car.

The fuel filter on the 2012 X5 35d is to be changed at every other oil change according to my service manual. I would use that as leverage. The dealer can't penalize you for doing in between oil changes yourself, they don't even have to know about it. Just don't use cheap materials.


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  #4  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:33 PM
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BMW North America... 1 800 300 0269. Save this number on your cell phone so that you know who's calling (not spam/telemarketer). Any representative there can help - they'll log everything into the database. Call to describe/complain/discuss. Somewhere in the conversation they may ask what they can do to help or what you would like them to do... so ... name what you like them to do, or have a dealer (or another dealer) do for you. Good luck.
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:52 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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I agree with FredoinSF . . . you have pre-paid for a certain maintenance schedule offered by BMW. If you feel some items need to be changed more often (many folks here do feel that way) you are free to do it - just use the right material. This applies to engine oil/filter and/or any other filters you deem necessary.

*IMO* BMW's schedule is adequate - for me iDrive goes amber around 10,000 miles for oil change and I am fine with it. About the only thing I would do different next time around is do a paid oil service at 5,000 miles and then go with the BMW schedule.

I plan to keep this X5 for ~200,000+ miles . . . let us see how the BMW recommended schedule holds up!
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  #6  
Old 10-28-2013, 10:10 PM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
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Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
*IMO* BMW's schedule is adequate - for me iDrive goes amber around 10,000 miles for oil change and I am fine with it. About the only thing I would do different next time around is do a paid oil service at 5,000 miles and then go with the BMW schedule.

I plan to keep this X5 for ~200,000+ miles . . . let us see how the BMW recommended schedule holds up!
I don't trust their transmission oil change interval at all. It seem to be me fuzzy word like life time is a disaster waiting to happen. I personally plan to change roughly at around 5 years or 50k miles mark.
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  #7  
Old 10-29-2013, 03:44 AM
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dcharnet dcharnet is offline
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For all service needs my BMW dealer will drive 55 miles to my house, pick up my X5, leave a new loaner for as long as the service takes, and then return the car ready and washed. There is no specific charge to me for this, although of course all customers "pay" by sharing this cost of doing business as it is manifested in service and parts costs.

I have this dealer change oil at 7500 mile intervals. I calculate the extra labor cost of this at about $25 compared to a local repair shop using BMW oil and filter I bring to them, but the value on so many levels of not having to fuss with this at all---the monetary value of my time, the boredom of waiting around for the work to get done--- far far outweighs the small extra cost. Plus, I get a free car cleaning.

This is a huge part of why I have purchased 4 X5's from the same dealer.

Say what you will about the upper echelons of BMW, for the record there are local dealers like mine who run customer-oriented businesses and earn loyalty, not enmity.
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  #8  
Old 10-29-2013, 05:33 AM
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SteveinBelAir SteveinBelAir is offline
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There are great dealers and crappy ones. Luckily my local dealership is a great one and is literally 300 yards from my place of work.

You are nuts having them wash your car though. Good or bad dealership, the lowest guy on the totem pole washes your car. I specifically tell them not to wash it.
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  #9  
Old 10-29-2013, 06:18 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Wow, the dealer where I bought the X5 has very few loaners and they are very stingy with them. Most of he time I ride their Honda Odyssey shuttle but it turns into a pumpkin at 4pm so you're pretty much on your own for the pickup.



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  #10  
Old 10-29-2013, 06:26 AM
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[QUOTE=SteveinBelAir;792462

You are nuts having them wash your car though. Good or bad dealership, the lowest guy on the totem pole washes your car. I specifically tell them not to wash it.[/QUOTE]

Really? Nuts? Better to let winter crud work its evil? Is the other winter alternative, an automatic or manual car wash, better? Be specific, and be real.
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  #11  
Old 10-29-2013, 07:39 AM
PAX5 PAX5 is online now
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This is what it says in your manual:

Oil change
Only have an oil change carried out by a BMW
Sports Activity Vehicle Center or a workshop
that works in accordance with BMW guidelines
and uses appropriately trained personnel.
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  #12  
Old 10-29-2013, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
Wow, the dealer where I bought the X5 has very few loaners and they are very stingy with them. Most of he time I ride their Honda Odyssey shuttle but it turns into a pumpkin at 4pm so you're pretty much on your own for the pickup.



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I guess I'm lucky to receive a 2013 BMW ( 5 series, 7 series, X5, X3, 3 series, 1 series ) every time I go in for service Depends on your dealer I guess
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  #13  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:39 AM
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Your post isn't really clear, but there's a few things to keep in mind. The most important is that the dealer will not provide the standard maintenance until the OBC says it's due. The OBC has a fixed service list that it works through, typically: oil service, inspection 1, oil service, inspection 2, oil service, inspection 1, etc.

Now let's say oil service/inspections typically come up at 15k. You do your own oil change at 7.5k, no harm no foul. You do your own oil change again at 15k without telling the OBC - big problem. You do another oil change at 22.5k, but the OBC still thinks the 15k service wasn't done. You finally go to the dealer at 30k and ask for inspection 1, but the OBC thinks the 15k oil service still wasn't done. That's the problem. You should always have the dealer perform the scheduled change when the OBC calls for it so they can reset it. Or do the service yourself and swing by the dealer and ask them to reset it. Once you get out of the sync with the OBC agenda you're off the res and really have no one to blame but yourself.

Could the dealer and BMW be smart and figure it out? Yes, absolutely. But smart people know that corporations love their policies and procedures and deviations are frowned upon and resisted with great might. It's best to be assimilated and go with the program to keep your cortisol levels down.

Incidentally, this is also why "low mileage annual oil changes" are performed without resetting the OBC, so you might literally have the low mileage change in January, then in February the OBC tells you to get another one done.
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  #14  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:53 AM
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OP-

You need to do a very careful job of putting together a precise and cogent PAPER letter to BMWNA. You want to clearly state what services were performed and when they were done, and reference the evidnence you have (you dont need to send them the receipts, just itemize these in an attachment or footnote). What was done, who did it, date, mileage and parts.

Then cite the terms in the warranty/maintenance. THEN pull in Moss Magnussen and the fact that denying warranty for failing to use a mfg for maintenance is illegal in the USA.

If the BMW dealer failed to perform the service back at the 3rd visit (or whenever) make sure you describe that.

I suspect the issue is the BMW computer system is denying it and they are too lazy to go around that.

One caution: if you call, they will be real helpful- "oh sir that is hiorrible, we want to get to the bottom of this and get you what you want"..they are TRAINED to sound cooperatve and positive, but they are not committing to a thing- they are busying typing notes of what you say so they can go back to hte daler and circle wagons. MAKE SURE you are clear and precise with them from the get go. If the dealer has documented something adverse under your VIN in the dealer records, this will be used agaisnt you. You need to get your evidnce and argument to BMWNA in a way that they can see they are wrong. If you just call and complain, they'll promise to look into it- call the dealer- then say 'sorry dealer is right'. Just FYI

GL

A
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  #15  
Old 10-29-2013, 09:27 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrycyao View Post
I don't trust their transmission oil change interval at all. It seem to be me fuzzy word like life time is a disaster waiting to happen. I personally plan to change roughly at around 5 years or 50k miles mark.
Good point! Agree transmission fluid is not going to last forever. That said, looking at it from BMW's perspective why would they not suggest a transmission flush at an interval beyond the 50K/4 year window? It doesn't cost BMW anything, if anything more revenue for the dealer. Given we hardly ever tow anything and only occasionally do sustained mountain climbs, I am comfortable with doing the transmission service at 100,000 miles. Even a longer interval (150,000 miles?) for the front/back differential and transfer case. Has anyone checked with their service adviser about getting this done at any interval - or is it a case where nothing is recommended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcharnet View Post
Really? Nuts? Better to let winter crud work its evil? Is the other winter alternative, an automatic or manual car wash, better? Be specific, and be real.
*IMO* letting the dealer (or anyone else) wash the car depends on one's tolerance for swirl marks! I NEVER let others wash my black sapphire car - I have a very specific way to do it - full wash every three weeks or so and a water-less wash every week (takes about 20 minutes to do and done right does not cause swirl marks). Fortunately Bay Area winters are mild so full wash can be done year round. For harsh winters I suggest a touch-less drive-through wash to get the crud off . . . a complete clay/polish/wax in early Spring and a second one just before winter sets in. Again just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
Your post isn't really clear, . . . Now let's say oil service/inspections typically come up at 15k. You do your own oil change at 7.5k, no harm no foul. You do your own oil change again at 15k without telling the OBC - big problem. You do another oil change at 22.5k, but the OBC still thinks the 15k service wasn't done. You finally go to the dealer at 30k and ask for inspection 1, but the OBC thinks the 15k oil service still wasn't done. That's the problem. . . .
This is also my understanding of how the OBC works. Additionally - my understanding - dealer cannot adjust the interval - it is determined by the vehicle's on-board systems that take into account the mileage, fuel consumed (e.g. city schedule will show low mileage but high fuel usage) and time elapsed. Second, only when the iDrive warning lights up (the amber alert) the dealer gets the accounting code he needs to get paid by BMW. i.e. without that code the dealer pays or the customer pays, not BMW.

Last edited by RPsX5d; 10-29-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-29-2013, 09:50 AM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
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Re: Beware of Consequences

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
Good point! Agree transmission fluid is not going to last forever. That said, looking at it from BMW's perspective why would they not suggest a transmission flush at an interval beyond the 50K/4 year window? It doesn't cost BMW anything, if anything more revenue for the dealer.
Actually, BMW does off extended maintenance plan for $$. So it is their interest not to add more cost. I have a feeling that their life time ends around 7 years or 100k miles for power trans. Otherwise, they would spend a lot of warranty repair for cpo. That is not to say you won't have a transmission problem. It's just won't cost BMW that much to cover it to that time frame.

The reason why I changed it earlier is because my coworker had a problem when he changed his transmission oil too late. The residual mental flakes got recirculated and broke his transmission when he changed the transmission oil. His advice was to change transmission oil before too many metal flakes in the pan such that transmission oil change does not cause more problems.

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  #17  
Old 10-29-2013, 10:26 AM
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SteveinBelAir SteveinBelAir is offline
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Originally Posted by dcharnet View Post
Really? Nuts? Better to let winter crud work its evil? Is the other winter alternative, an automatic or manual car wash, better? Be specific, and be real.
If you want to let some $8 an hour oink wash your $75K car's paint with the same cloth, water, bucket he just used on the previous car's wheels, you go for it.

My new Bimmer is white so it isn't such an issue but this one and my darker cars are washed by one person - me, using my soap, my buckets, my cloths and they never see an automated car wash unless it is touchless and then only in a dire emergency when my OCD is kiciking in and it's too cold outside

Sorry for the hijack OP.
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Last edited by SteveinBelAir; 10-29-2013 at 10:30 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-29-2013, 10:27 AM
ard ard is offline
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OP-

Did the servicing mechanic reset your CBS?

Please clarify some of the details in your post as chiefneil suggests... or PM
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  #19  
Old 10-29-2013, 04:23 PM
boostedX5SAV boostedX5SAV is offline
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Originally Posted by Kzang View Post
I guess I'm lucky to receive a 2013 BMW ( 5 series, 7 series, X5, X3, 3 series, 1 series ) every time I go in for service Depends on your dealer I guess
Which dealer you use?
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinBelAir View Post
If you want to let some $8 an hour oink wash your $75K car's paint with the same cloth, water, bucket he just used on the previous car's wheels, you go for it.

My new Bimmer is white so it isn't such an issue but this one and my darker cars are washed by one person - me, using my soap, my buckets, my cloths and they never see an automated car wash unless it is touchless and then only in a dire emergency when my OCD is kiciking in and it's too cold outside
P.
Sounds more like undifferentiated paranoia than OCD. No, both.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:12 PM
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SteveinBelAir SteveinBelAir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcharnet View Post
Sounds more like undifferentiated paranoia than OCD. No, both.
I have to say that my dealership actually has a reverse osmosis system for their water but I still won't let them wash my car.
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  #22  
Old 10-29-2013, 05:33 PM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinBelAir View Post
If you want to let some $8 an hour oink wash your $75K car's paint with the same cloth, water, bucket he just used on the previous car's wheels, you go for it.

My new Bimmer is white so it isn't such an issue but this one and my darker cars are washed by one person - me, using my soap, my buckets, my cloths and they never see an automated car wash unless it is touchless and then only in a dire emergency when my OCD is kiciking in and it's too cold outside

Sorry for the hijack OP.

Yup it all depends on the color.

Silver is the easiest to maintain.

Black nonmetallic is impossible to maintain without DA buffers etc.
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  #23  
Old 10-29-2013, 05:35 PM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Originally Posted by dcharnet View Post
Sounds more like undifferentiated paranoia than OCD. No, both.
There are so many horror stories, including my own, of how dealers ruin a car upon delivery by "prepping" it.
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  #24  
Old 10-29-2013, 10:12 PM
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Beware of Consequences

Is there not a way to reset the oil change interval on the turn signal stick?


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Old 10-30-2013, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by boostedX5SAV View Post
Which dealer you use?
I use BMW of Tenafly in NJ
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