Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 7 Series / 8 Series > 7 Series - E38 (1995 - 2001)

7 Series - E38 (1995 - 2001)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-02-2013, 01:11 PM
bridey bridey is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Mein Auto: 2007 530xi
vibration help!!

I have a 2001 740il that developed a vibration in what seems to be the driveshaft. It is most noticeable when going from 1st to 2nd. If you start from a stop and accelerate hard, there is a BIG vibration that seems to come form the middle of the car. Any ideas? Is this a DIY project?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 11-02-2013, 05:02 PM
Podmore Podmore is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Adelaide South Australia
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 150
Mein Auto: 2001 BMW 735i
Tailshaft centre support bearing (CSB). This bearing is supported inside a flexible rubber diaphragm which becomes brittle over time and eventually disintegrates and allows the tailshaft to slap around inside the bearing carrier. Symptoms you describe are classic - the vibration is worst when the torque loading is greatest (i.s. when getting the car rolling). Probably only part of the diaphragm has torn at this stage, allowing excessive play, otherwise you tend to get a real thumping noise when the diaphragm is completely shot.

Removing the tailshaft is a DYI job (although access to a hoist will make the job a lot easier) but you may wish to get a shop to do the actual work of separating the two halves of the tailshaft to replace the CSB (you'll need a bearing press). The exhaust system and heat shield have to come off; the removal of the tailshaft itself is straightforward nuts & bolts stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-02-2013, 05:33 PM
ou18 ou18 is offline
Playing Mechanic At Home
Location: Boca Raton FL
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 804
Send a message via AIM to ou18 Send a message via Yahoo to ou18
Mein Auto: 1997 740 IL
+1 for DIY... Just be sure if you DIY, when you put it back in, you load the the center support bearing approx 4-6 mm toward front of the car...Otherwise you'll be replacing it again in a matter of months...
__________________

1997 Black 740IL (w\ badass Phone in console)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-02-2013, 09:57 PM
bridey bridey is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Mein Auto: 2007 530xi
Thankful for the input. It sounds like there might be a lot of shop labor needed? I do have a press. Do you know a ballpark on cost of repair or a link describing in detail what needs to be done? I am also not sure what you mean by load the bearing

Last edited by bridey; 11-02-2013 at 09:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-02-2013, 11:45 PM
ebida3's Avatar
ebida3 ebida3 is online now
Society of the 7's East
Location: High Point, NC
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 551
Mein Auto: 2001 740iL
The ol' Guilbo bearing. Very common.

Last edited by ebida3; 11-02-2013 at 11:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-03-2013, 03:33 AM
Podmore Podmore is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Adelaide South Australia
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 150
Mein Auto: 2001 BMW 735i
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridey View Post
Thankful for the input. It sounds like there might be a lot of shop labor needed? I do have a press. Do you know a ballpark on cost of repair or a link describing in detail what needs to be done? I am also not sure what you mean by load the bearing
No, not a lot of shop labour needed at all. If you have a bearing press, it is all DYI-able. Just make sure you mark the relative positions of the tailshaft components before disassembly, otherwise you may be up for re-balancing.

The CSB carrier has elongated mounting holes, which enable you to push the bearing towards the front of the car from its natural unloaded position when re-installing it. Apparently this is important - not sure why.

BTW ebida3, the 'guibo' is the term given to the rubber flex disc which joins the front of the tailshaft to the gearbox output shaft - quite a different animal to the CSB, although a failing / cracked guibo can also cause vibration under load.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-03-2013, 05:00 AM
ou18 ou18 is offline
Playing Mechanic At Home
Location: Boca Raton FL
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 804
Send a message via AIM to ou18 Send a message via Yahoo to ou18
Mein Auto: 1997 740 IL
I would say, if you're pulling the driveshaft out, have the csb , centering sleeve and guibo replaced all at once. The centering sleeve is at the end where the output shaft from the tranny goes into the driveshaft. I did mine this time around, just as a maintenance point.

none of the parts are expensive, the most expensive part is the cv joint that attaches to your final drive. If when you take off the driveshaft, the cv joint flops around like a fish out of water, replace that as well.

When i did mine a year ago, i took to the local indy shop to let them do the work. My cv joint needed replaced as it was loose and useless. The end was easily moved with no effort. The new one is tight and the joint needs some force to move it. Apparently that is the way it should be.

The reason i say replace the guibo and the centering sleeve as well is, you'll have it off. Just good maintenance and will provide peace of mind knowing all of it is replaced with new parts...

Another thing,,, BUY OEM...Ive read bad things about after market parts in this area. The little bit extra it might cost apparently is worth the longevity the OEM part will have over non OEM.

Hope this helps...

here is a video link to the center support bearing. This was off an e36, but method is similar. So you can see what you're dealing with

__________________

1997 Black 740IL (w\ badass Phone in console)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-03-2013, 06:06 AM
ou18 ou18 is offline
Playing Mechanic At Home
Location: Boca Raton FL
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 804
Send a message via AIM to ou18 Send a message via Yahoo to ou18
Mein Auto: 1997 740 IL
Re: vibration help!!

Podmore...ive read posts that say the reason for preloading is at rest the shaft is in a different position then when under load..if its not preloaded it will push the center support past where it shld be and cause premature failure of the bearing..i made the mistake last time of nkt preloading the bearing..mine last for 4 months then thumped again...wont make that mistake again..

Sent from my SGH-I777 using BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

1997 Black 740IL (w\ badass Phone in console)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-03-2013, 08:02 AM
ebida3's Avatar
ebida3 ebida3 is online now
Society of the 7's East
Location: High Point, NC
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 551
Mein Auto: 2001 740iL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Podmore View Post
No, not a lot of shop labour needed at all. If you have a bearing press, it is all DYI-able. Just make sure you mark the relative positions of the tailshaft components before disassembly, otherwise you may be up for re-balancing.

The CSB carrier has elongated mounting holes, which enable you to push the bearing towards the front of the car from its natural unloaded position when re-installing it. Apparently this is important - not sure why.

BTW ebida3, the 'guibo' is the term given to the rubber flex disc which joins the front of the tailshaft to the gearbox output shaft - quite a different animal to the CSB, although a failing / cracked guibo can also cause vibration under load.
That's what I meant check the Guilbo/flex disc also.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-04-2013, 04:20 AM
bridey bridey is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Mein Auto: 2007 530xi
You guys are the best! Have any of you done this repair without removing the entire exhaust? I'm also wondering if I have to remove the entire drive shaft or I can separate the halves without pulling the shaft. Last thing, It sounds like I have to also replace a differential seal if I pull the whole shaft?

Thank guys
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-04-2013, 05:24 AM
ou18 ou18 is offline
Playing Mechanic At Home
Location: Boca Raton FL
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 804
Send a message via AIM to ou18 Send a message via Yahoo to ou18
Mein Auto: 1997 740 IL
you cant do it without removing the exhaust.
The driveshaft is up under the heat shield which the exhaust makes prohibitive from removing. Pulling the exhaust out isnt tough. Its really only held in by the hangers in the back, a center support bracket , and the bolts that hold it to the headers. Its heavy though. Its not hard to get out. once you have the car jacked up in all four corners. If you have an extra set of hands, i would employ them for the day.

To the second part of your question. Pull the entire shaft out. It will be much easier to do any work on it... I would suggest, just taking the entire shaft to a trusty indy shop or dealer. But that is your choic... I just completed an entire engine rebuild on my M62. and one thing i let the shop do, was replace the center bearing and center sleeve. I didnt want to mess with it. I got lucky they gave me a freebie on it. Since i supplied the parts. Our company has been good to the owner of the indy shop, so he returned the favor. Floated the tech 40 bucks and called it a day...

Not sure about a differential seal. On mine, the first time they replaced the cv joint at the back, there was no seal around it when it coupled to the final drive. Just held in with 6 bolts and alot of grease in the cv joint...

here is a link to the pic of your driveshaft

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...25&hg=26&fg=10

parts 7 and 1 are the ones i replaced recently. Part 16 and related parts were replaced a year ago...part 17 and 18 are part of the cv joint....

This should be at most, an hour job for a good indy tech.. AT MOST.....


hope this helps. Like one of the other posters mentioned, if you decided to do this yourself, BE SURE to mark both halves of the shaft at the u-joint where they mate up. These shafts are balanced and if you dont put it back together at the same points, it will be out of balance and you will find yourself with another busted up center bearing and maybe some other issues down the road...
__________________

1997 Black 740IL (w\ badass Phone in console)

Last edited by ou18; 11-04-2013 at 05:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:06 AM
ou18 ou18 is offline
Playing Mechanic At Home
Location: Boca Raton FL
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 804
Send a message via AIM to ou18 Send a message via Yahoo to ou18
Mein Auto: 1997 740 IL
By the way, here is a link to the workshop manual describing how to get the driveshaft out as well as reinstalling it...

http://bmw.workshop-manuals.com/7_Se...ex.php?id=1256
__________________

1997 Black 740IL (w\ badass Phone in console)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:29 AM
bridey bridey is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Mein Auto: 2007 530xi
Thanks so much!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-04-2013, 05:40 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orlando, FL
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 953
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 740i
I just changed the center bearing on my 740i; here are some tips...

- The exhaust and the heat shield must come out, no way to go around them.
- You don't need to take out the complete driveshaft. Disconnect it from the transmission, take it apart in the middle, and remove just the front half. That way you don't have to mess with the CV joint (unless it needs replacement too).
- Mark the two halves of the driveshaft and put it together the same way it was before (to keep it balanced).
- The bearing comes off fairly easy with a bearing puller.
- If you don't have a press, no big deal. You can install the bearing with a small hammer and a punch. Just do it slowly and very gently. Tap the inner race only! Go around in circles until the bearing is fully seated (you will hear it).
- Don't forget to preload the bearing.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:02 AM
Vitaliy273473 Vitaliy273473 is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle wa
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 21
Mein Auto: 1998 740il
vibration help!!

My 740il has the same problem and it doesn't seem to be getting worse but my question is, is it okay to keep driving the car? Is there any other problems this may cause like transmission or driveshaft problems or when the bearing gives out completely if I don't get it fixed soon? Thanks for your help.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-06-2013, 03:25 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orlando, FL
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 953
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 740i
Eventually the problem will get so bad that the bearing holder will fall apart completely (at least that's what happened to me). Then the driveshaft will flop around and bang like a hammer when you take off from a stop. At that point the car will be pretty much undriveable.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:41 PM
Vitaliy273473 Vitaliy273473 is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle wa
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 21
Mein Auto: 1998 740il
vibration help!!

Thanks for the advice! Mine isn't to bad yet so il take care of my other problems first:/


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:35 PM
Podmore Podmore is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Adelaide South Australia
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 150
Mein Auto: 2001 BMW 735i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitaliy273473 View Post
Thanks for the advice! Mine isn't to bad yet so il take care of my other problems first:/


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
If you are getting vibration or thumping now, it means the bearing support diaphragm (or possibly the guibo / flex disc) is already torn and there is no predicting how long it might last before letting go completely. If your 'other problems' don't actually prevent you from driving the car safely, my recommendation would be to attend to the one that probably will!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-06-2013, 08:33 PM
Vitaliy273473 Vitaliy273473 is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle wa
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 21
Mein Auto: 1998 740il
vibration help!!

That's a good point! But my radiator fan bearing is shot and my fan is wobbling pretty bad. So I'm gonna change that in a couple days and then onto changing my bearing.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 7 Series / 8 Series > 7 Series - E38 (1995 - 2001)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms