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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:46 AM
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My 528xi vs. 428xi reflections...

Have just had an opportunity to test-drive the 428xi. At first I didn't think of it seriously; my 528xi being a compromise of performance (vs. I6 models) towards comfort and prestige the 5-series offers, I could only imagine going "down" one class (i.e. from 5 down to 4) if the latter was equipped with the larger engine (i.e. 435xi)...

BUT, while actually driving it, I found the 428xi absolutely wonderful when compared to my F10 with the same engine! Not only the handling (M-sport suspension, low CoG), but - above all - the drivetrain's responsiveness have left me a very frustrated 528xi owner. Only today did I witness the true potential of BMW's 4-banger, and understood all the hype around it (and the 4-cylinder Engine of the Year Award).

Of course I realize it's exactly the same engine I have, simply implemented much wiser due to:

- the SAT's gearing ratios designed with sportiness in mind from the very beginning
- the throttle response being day and night difference to my laggy 528xi implementation (in fact, in the 428xi's Comfort mode it's more direct than mine in Sport+ mode!!!)
- the chassis, lower and lighter, also having been designed with sporty rather than comfy virtues in mind (why can't BMW combine the sport suspension with xDrive on F10 beats me; the 4-er has it and now the 2-er does, too)...

Even the interior - so highly appraised in the F10 - has nothing left to be desired in the 428xi. Smaller, yes - but otherwise the same feeling of quality. Even the same BMW smell

All in all - in spite of my 59 years of age and serious spine condition - I'm determined to do all I only can in order to "downgrade" from the prestigious F10 to the 4-series. Of course, a 435xi would be even better, but due to the crazy "luxury tax" we have here on anything larger than 2.0l displacement - it's unfortunately above my financial means.
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Last edited by MoldCAD; 11-07-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:59 AM
kk22 kk22 is offline
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Life's too short, trade in the F10 for the 428. Somehow I still find the F10 in another league for luxury. Maybe at 38 I'm an older man inside than you :-)
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:29 AM
grover432 grover432 is offline
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My colleague had a 528X Drive for 2 weeks while his 2010 335 X Drive was getting a new engine. While I didn't care for the spaghetti steering wheel or the overly soft suspension (in the base car configuration), I loved the 4 cylinder engine. It was a little rough at idle, but I was amazed at the power from such a diminutive power-plant. I know its been 35 years, but compared to what 4 cylinders used to produce (my 1979 320i) and even the mid 80's 6 cylinders, this engine blew me away. I also drove a 2013 3 series and really liked it but I found it a bit rougher in that car. I guess you are less isolated from the engine compartment in the 3 (as compared to the F10).

My sister is currently driving a 2011 328 Cab and is taking a 428i for a test drive this weekend. She is tired of the manual trans in her current car and will be trading for a cab with an automatic. My brother is panning the 428 (in favour of the 435), but I think it is a great choice, even though it isn't as smooth as the 6 is at the bottom end.

I guess you have to decide what kind of "drive" you want when comparing the 528 to the 428. In the 5, you are more isolated and the handling is much softer compared to the 4. But, I've driven my colleagues 335 (2013) and while it handles better than an F10, it is also noisier and rougher riding. I chose the 535 X Drive for that reason. I'll get my handling thrills from a used Boxster.
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Last edited by grover432; 11-07-2013 at 08:37 AM. Reason: handling comment 528 updated - base suspension added
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grover432 View Post
. I chose the 535 X Drive for that reason. I'll get my handling thrills from a used Boxster.
Yeah - if I only could, I'd have two:

- the F10 (but at least the "true" 535xd model) for torque, efficiency and comfort
- a Boxter (or for that matter, an STI or just the M235i) for the thrill

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  #5  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:36 AM
grover432 grover432 is offline
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Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Yeah - if I only could, I'd have two:

- the F10 (but at least the "true" 535xd model) for torque, efficiency and comfort
- a Boxter (or for that matter, an STI or just the M235i) for the thrill

I can't, but maybe when my wife is over the fact I bought this car?? Summer driving doesn't come until May around here.

PS I've ordered the same colour you have - can't wait (but have to - car is slow getting here)
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Last edited by grover432; 11-07-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:55 AM
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I just leased an F10 535. Great car, love it, it's a little big and soft coming from the E60 545 I had before. Also I got crushed by a $1255 license registration fee yesterday and I'd be happy to drive a less expensive car. The F10 feels larger, more opulent, and more luxurious than I need for what I use the car for. I can see myself looking hard at a 4 series the next time around.
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  #7  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:11 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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I wouldnt mind having Grover432 x drive when he gets tired of it. As I noted elsewhere a 535xi is my next vehicle.
AL

PS Plus I need a 4 seater and it must have fold down seats for hauling my wifes boxes of charity stuff
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  #8  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:25 PM
grover432 grover432 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fastpaddler View Post
I wouldnt mind having Grover432 x drive when he gets tired of it. As I noted elsewhere a 535xi is my next vehicle.
AL

PS Plus I need a 4 seater and it must have fold down seats for hauling my wifes boxes of charity stuff
I'll keep you in mind. I got such a killer deal on my car. With the bit I put down, BMW cash and a hefty dealer discount , it will lease under $800/month plus taxes. I can't lose if I decide on a different car in the next year and a bit.
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Last edited by grover432; 11-07-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:43 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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59 is nothing. Get a 4-series and have some fun. Last time we were in Italy we dined next to a gentleman and his grand son. After the meal they took off in his 599 GTB. My guess is that he was 80+. Motoring doesn't have to be a rolling couch just because of a number. I hope to drive ever more hard core cars as I age and my kids move out.

Last edited by solstice; 11-07-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:52 PM
nirvana19 nirvana19 is offline
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Many have been saying favorable things about the 4...I think I need to drive one. I'm not in love with the profile though the front and rear are quite appealing. Interesting, MT mentioned that the 4 series interior was a big improvement over the 3 - the basic layout is almost identical but I'll have to look more closely as numerous reviewers have alluded to the superior interior. Perhaps materials? I know the red interior includes a colored lower dash (3-series does not).

The interior and overall styling was what pushed me to the F10 vs. the F30 - while I preferred the driving dynamics of the F30 paying 55k for a car that didn't feel particularly premium (on the inside) wasn't of interest.
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:08 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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I see the 4 series as an upgrade to the 3 series NOT a logical replacement for an F10(5 of any type). Unless you dont want the quiet, isolated, relaxing ride--a vehicle that does everything effortlessly and can move it's butt when necessary.
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2013, 06:29 PM
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I just sat in the 4 and think the interior and overall presentation is VERY downmarket from the 5. The interior being the biggest upset of all, considering how it's a carbon copy of the very underwhelming F30-interior.

It's a cool and funky looking car and I'm sure it drives great and sportily, but the interior and overall refinement is eons away from the F10 interior, etc.
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2013, 07:27 PM
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Mr. Grumpy Mr. Grumpy is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I just sat in the 4 and think the interior and overall presentation is VERY downmarket from the 5. The interior being the biggest upset of all, considering how it's a carbon copy of the very underwhelming F30-interior.

It's a cool and funky looking car and I'm sure it drives great and sportily, but the interior and overall refinement is eons away from the F10 interior, etc.
My thoughts exactly. I've been tinkering with the idea of buying the new M4 when it comes out but every time I see the 4 series interior I feel more incline to keep my car or to buy a LCI 550i.

Maybe if I would have come straight from my E90 to the M4 I would have pull the trigger but after driving my car for 2 years now I still love the interiors of this car, after all we spend more time inside the car than admiring the outside.
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Last edited by Mr. Grumpy; 11-14-2013 at 07:30 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2013, 07:46 PM
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My 528xi vs. 428xi reflections...

This is not surprising given that you bought an underpowered 5 series. BMW should scrap the 528.

Raising the price of entry and the minimum product level is key. Right now they are chasing too much share with economy products.


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  #15  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:30 PM
grover432 grover432 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
This is not surprising given that you bought an underpowered 5 series. BMW should scrap the 528.

Raising the price of entry and the minimum product level is key. Right now they are chasing too much share with economy products.


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If the southern Ontario (Canada) dealer I spoke with is representative, I doubt BMW will be scrapping the 528. The dealer said the price point makes it their volume seller.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:46 PM
neilsarkar neilsarkar is offline
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My 528xi vs. 428xi reflections...

Quote:
Originally Posted by grover432 View Post
If the southern Ontario (Canada) dealer I spoke with is representative, I doubt BMW will be scrapping the 528. The dealer said the price point makes it their volume seller.
It's same in the SF Bay area - 75% of the F10s I see is 528i. I personally believe N20/N26, as great an engine that is, was never designed to haul a 4000-pound chassis. N55 seems to be a perfect match for F10 - adequate power which is usable on everyday driving.


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  #17  
Old 11-14-2013, 11:34 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
This is not surprising given that you bought an underpowered 5 series. BMW should scrap the 528.

Raising the price of entry and the minimum product level is key. Right now they are chasing too much share with economy products.


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That niche of the German car brands is allready taken by Porsche.
Probably the brand you'll be driving in a couple of ....
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2013, 11:34 PM
Dr.Phil123 Dr.Phil123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
This is not surprising given that you bought an underpowered 5 series. BMW should scrap the 528.

Raising the price of entry and the minimum product level is key. Right now they are chasing too much share with economy products.


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Originally Posted by neilsarkar View Post
It's same in the SF Bay area - 75% of the F10s I see is 528i. I personally believe N20/N26, as great an engine that is, was never designed to haul a 4000-pound chassis. N55 seems to be a perfect match for F10 - adequate power which is usable on everyday driving.


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You should travel and become more cultured. I'm living in Holland with my American spec E60 535i. While F10's are very common here, anything over the 528i/530d is a rare sight. BMW even offers the 520i and 518d here and they are quite common. The broad assumption that the 528i is underpowered or not designed properly is a bit overstated.

Europe Engine choices
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:44 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is online now
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Originally Posted by Dr.Phil123 View Post
You should travel and become more cultured. I'm living in Holland with my American spec E60 535i. While F10's are very common here, anything over the 528i/530d is a rare sight. BMW even offers the 520i and 518d here and they are quite common. The broad assumption that the 528i is underpowered or not designed properly is a bit overstated.

Europe Engine choices
Remember it is a vast country, the States is, the dwellers need big engines for doing their slaloms through the 55 mph traffic. And big really is better, isn't it?
And than Stealth is one of the really low flying posters throwing money at BMW's as if it is some sort of religion, I am sure he would not mind owning a 12 cilinder BMW.
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:15 AM
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MoldCAD MoldCAD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
This is not surprising given that you bought an underpowered 5 series. BMW should scrap the 528.
And that's the best summary of the OP's (mine) reason to think of the 435i(d)x. Could I afford and I6 in the F10 body, I wouldn't think of replacement - ever.

But again - would I be 10-20 years younger, I would never buy an F10... The M4 (or even M235i), depending on my financial abilities) would be my car!
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Last edited by MoldCAD; 11-16-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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  #21  
Old 11-15-2013, 05:08 AM
grover432 grover432 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Phil123 View Post
You should travel and become more cultured. I'm living in Holland with my American spec E60 535i. While F10's are very common here, anything over the 528i/530d is a rare sight. BMW even offers the 520i and 518d here and they are quite common. The broad assumption that the 528i is underpowered or not designed properly is a bit overstated.

Europe Engine choices
We have to travel to the Netherlands to become cultured? I thought we had quite a bit of culture in NA. Especially non pop culture like cars.
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2013, 07:14 AM
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WJGreer WJGreer is online now
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Originally Posted by grover432 View Post
We have to travel to the Netherlands to become cultured? I thought we had quite a bit of culture in NA. Especially non pop culture like cars.
A few things, from the depths of my own opinion:
  • BMW isn't going to discontinue the 528. It may be heresy to many of us on this board to put a 4 cylinder engine in a car the size of an F10, but it's working for BMW, reviews are actually quite good, and I think BMW is moving a buttload of 528 cars.
  • It's not very nice to tell someone which car they should or should not buy, unless they ask. Telling them after they have already bought their car is right out. Also, I don't want to hear from anyone in Europe what the US is like. There is no "what the US is like," you need only spend one day in New York and a second day in Colorado to realize that. If you haven't done that, you might not be in a position to comment.
  • On the culture thing in the US. Here's what it is - we have everything here. You can get get great Italian espresso, an awesome French Bordeaux, fantastic vodka, great seafood, and a cold craft beer, all on the same night if you want. Since there are so many options, we also end up with a lowest common denominatror version of whatever you ask for, designed carefully to be of reasonable quality and to offend nobody. Bud Light. So we have culture here, but you have to be aware of what you want and ask for it.

/soapbox
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Last edited by WJGreer; 11-15-2013 at 07:24 AM.
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2013, 07:33 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Fact of the matter is that we'll see a 520i in the States before a discontinuation of the 528i.

Fact is, the smaller the engine, the less the HP, the higher the efficiency, the lower the price, the more Joe and Janes will buy these cars, until BMW cross the fine line of diluting out the essence of "Premium" from their brand. This goes for any Luxury manufacturer, Mercedes especially with their cheesy little FWD 4 banger, are embarking onto dangerous territory (higher the risk, higher the reward I guess) as we speak, heavily.

The good news is, BMW's 4 cylinder is one of the only actual well-performing 4 cylinders, the best in its segments really. It's no I6 and frankly even the great BMW Turbo 4 to ME makes the 5 Series feel/sound "cheap"-ish (relative to the I6/V8's) and not as effortless as a Luxury chassis like an F10 should feel, but it's certainly here to stay.

I'm more concerned about the future of the I6. BMW used to have a plethora of I6's in stock and it was one of the big reasons as to why the brand became so distinct, revered and sought after. That sound, the characteristics, you simply couldn't experience that engine style anywhere else. Now they're talking about 3 cylinders, expanding the 4 cylinders, etc. I love V8's but I could somehow perhaps convince myself to live without that from BMW, however IMO if BMW eventually dumped the I6's, I'd mourn the loss of the brands core identity.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2013, 08:07 AM
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WJGreer WJGreer is online now
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I'm more concerned about the future of the I6. BMW used to have a plethora of I6's in stock and it was one of the big reasons as to why the brand became so distinct, revered and sought after. That sound, the characteristics, you simply couldn't experience that engine style anywhere else. Now they're talking about 3 cylinders, expanding the 4 cylinders, etc. I love V8's but I could somehow perhaps convince myself to live without that from BMW, however IMO if BMW eventually dumped the I6's, I'd mourn the loss of the brands core identity.
That's a good point. Thankfully, I've heard that the 3 cylinder sounds and feels much more like the I6 than it does the N20. So, and to your point, if the market must move in this direction, at least BMW is doing a good job in the transformation.

I predict that the V8 5 series, apart from the M5, will be gone within 10 years. While the 550's performance is marvelous, the 535's ain't bad and there's room for improvement there.

Figure BMW to wring 400 horsepower out of the turbo I6 (Cadillac already has) with existing or better fuel economy and there will be no need for the 550. It's already a low volume car.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:16 AM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
This is not surprising given that you bought an underpowered 5 series. BMW should scrap the 528.

Raising the price of entry and the minimum product level is key. Right now they are chasing too much share with economy products.


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This is such rot. The 528i outperforms the E30 M3.
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