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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 09-18-2013, 04:10 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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If you lease the residual is 6% less on the M5 than the 550i. I considered both but I just do not wish to pay the lease difference at this time.
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  #27  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:13 AM
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Ace535i Ace535i is offline
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Why such shi$$y residuals on the M-cars?
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  #28  
Old 09-23-2013, 02:24 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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It is market driven.
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04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
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11 550i Euro Del, Retired
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  #29  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:04 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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2014 M5 vs. 2014 550i

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace535i View Post
Why such shi$$y residuals on the M-cars?
BMW Financial Services is playing an interesting game with MSRPs and residuals in order to maximize market share.

They know that a large percentage of customers buying the mainstream models lease, so they keep the MSRPs high (thus maintaining the cache of owning a BMW) and pump up the residuals (thus making it possible for more people to put a $60,000 3 series in their garage).

I just don't think the game works on the M5. Those are ridiculously expensive on the front end, and the used market simply won't support resale values as high on a percentage basis as you see with 3s, 5s, X3s, and X5s.

By result, high-end BMWs don't get the screaming lease deals the rest of us enjoy.

That's my theory anyway.
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  #30  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
It is market driven.
Would you amplify your point?
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  #31  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:42 AM
BMWEndUser BMWEndUser is offline
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I drive a 2013 550i M-Sport, and I just performed a roadtest on a 2014 M5 following the 1500 mile "run-in" service.

In most cases, I prefer the 550i for daily driving. (Full disclosure, I ordered a 2014 550i yesterday)

The M5 is absolutely awesome. However, the 550i is 95% the car for 30% less (70k vs 100k). The M5 really shines when you kick the crap out of it in MDM mode, but the 550i M-Sport shines when you drive it daily...

In the rain, in city traffic, going over Miami's 3rd world roads, with both kids in the car, etc. The 550i is bloody fast, but never ruffles your feathers no matter how bad the road is.
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  #32  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:45 AM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWEndUser View Post
I drive a 2013 550i M-Sport, and I just performed a roadtest on a 2014 M5 following the 1500 mile "run-in" service.

In most cases, I prefer the 550i for daily driving. (Full disclosure, I ordered a 2014 550i yesterday)

The M5 is absolutely awesome. However, the 550i is 95% the car for 30% less (70k vs 100k). The M5 really shines when you kick the crap out of it in MDM mode, but the 550i M-Sport shines when you drive it daily...

In the rain, in city traffic, going over Miami's 3rd world roads, with both kids in the car, etc. The 550i is bloody fast, but never ruffles your feathers no matter how bad the road is.
Having owned both, I think the M5 has better ride quality. The 550i's ride quality is diminished by the run flat tires.

If the price was the same, I think everyone would choose the M5. However the 550i is great value. The Cadillac CTS V-Sport is even better value.
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  #33  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:53 AM
Motorboat411 Motorboat411 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Indeed. I was really bummed by that. Cheap move by BMW to call it a "4 Series" and keep a total carryover interior from the 3 Series (talk about "badge engineering"). I'm really into the prospects of a 435i M Sport in that stunning blue color, but that interior....
+1...Recently saw a 435i. Although it's a perfect car for a young guy like me, the interior just looks cheap. Everything I got from F10 to F30...I felt like I was sitting in some cheap American car. That's coming from a guy who's had a 2007 3-series before...
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  #34  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:14 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Having owned both, I think the M5 has better ride quality. The 550i's ride quality is diminished by the run flat tires.
That sounds like about a $1200 fix on the 550, then, and you're still a college education ahead of the price of an M5. More or less...
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  #35  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Indeed. I was really bummed by that. Cheap move by BMW to call it a "4 Series" and keep a total carryover interior from the 3 Series (talk about "badge engineering"). I'm really into the prospects of a 435i M Sport in that stunning blue color, but that interior....
It's really "platform engineering" where a builder uses a parts bin to supply many models rather than providing a bespoke design for each one, but I agree with you. I had reservations about the 3-series interior and had I not, I might have waited for a 435 instead of leasing my 535 a few months ago. I may still come back around to a 435 next time around, but I will have to overcome my objection to the interior.
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  #36  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:55 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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Love M3--any year. Do not love 3 series otherwise--too noisy cabin--needs 5 series insulation.5 series has best interior across the line.550 is tops but folks like me can just about afford the 535, my next one being 535xi. Did rallying in my younger years. M5 is too much car for a lot of Nascar racing aspirants. We dont have roads here but a few in the USA if you can keep the crazies out of your lane. So my answer to Op is take the 550i as it is probably a better value for what most need or the 535 for more than most of us need anyway.
Others may have loftier ambitions.
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  #37  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorboat411 View Post
+1...Recently saw a 435i. Although it's a perfect car for a young guy like me, the interior just looks cheap. Everything I got from F10 to F30...I felt like I was sitting in some cheap American car. That's coming from a guy who's had a 2007 3-series before...
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
It's really "platform engineering" where a builder uses a parts bin to supply many models rather than providing a bespoke design for each one, but I agree with you. I had reservations about the 3-series interior and had I not, I might have waited for a 435 instead of leasing my 535 a few months ago. I may still come back around to a 435 next time around, but I will have to overcome my objection to the interior.
Agreed.

I just can't believe how far below the 5 the 3/4 interiors are. I've heard that they use entirely different suppliers, save for the obvious shared bits and pieces (switches, shifter, etc.). It certainly looks and feels like it. The 3/4 interior does feel and look kind of American compared to the 5er. I love the F30 and I'm sure I'll LOVE driving the 4 but aside from obvious lack of luxury-insulation you get from the 5 (which some would prefer, less-insulated, on a sportier car anyway), and especially with M-B showing pics of what appears to be a much nicer interior than what the 3/4 offers (gonna have to touch it to make a final verdict as M-B's these days have harder/cheaper plastics than what you'd assume from pics) in the upcoming C Class, BMW needs to step it up with the 3/4 interiors.
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Last edited by K-A; 11-07-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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  #38  
Old 11-08-2013, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
If you lease the residual is 6% less on the M5 than the 550i. I considered both but I just do not wish to pay the lease difference at this time.
Best answer. and this is why I got the 2014 550i msport.

Leasing a m5 you pay most of the car off in the lease. which is NOT smart.

IF you dont plain to go to the track very often the 550i will do. And with some money invested it can make some serious power.

Best way to get a m5 is landing a good deal on a used one. at 95k + you lose alot of value buying it. And Leasing isnt practical on the car.

my .2cents.
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  #39  
Old 11-08-2013, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Too bad BMW doesn't make 4-series interior different from 3-series just like 6-series interior different from 5-series.
I test-drove the 4 recently and can assure you its interior lacks nothing in the quality department, and that's comparing to the F10. Yes, you feel it's less spacious and a tad less luxurious (which it should given it's a 4-er not a 5-er), but nothing to complain about.
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  #40  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:17 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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If the 4 Series interior is identical to the 3 Series (which is apparently is) then it's worlds apart in quality and luxury (both in tangible tactile feel and perception based refined design language) to the 5 Series interior. The F30 inside doesn't even seem like it's from the same manufacturer to me.

Aside from material quality, which I find substandard in the 3, the design looks terrible to me, not exuding a "high end" ambiance, IMO.
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  #41  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:32 AM
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If what you're saying about the 3's interior is true (I didn't seat in one for a long time), it would mean the 4-er has gotten a better treatment...
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  #42  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:35 AM
Motorboat411 Motorboat411 is offline
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I saw a 3 & 4-series last week...sat in both and they seemed pretty much the same to me. 4's exterior & stance is definitely much better than 3 though.
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  #43  
Old 11-08-2013, 05:12 AM
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ausdude ausdude is offline
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I would think ordering a 4er individual line would allow more high end materials, such as Nappa leather. The individual section of BMW can do almost anything you want.
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  #44  
Old 11-08-2013, 05:18 AM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by ausdude View Post
I would think ordering a 4er individual line would allow more high end materials, such as Nappa leather. The individual section of BMW can do almost anything you want.
bah, was thinking of the 2 series, never mind.

Last edited by bluejayfan; 11-08-2013 at 05:27 AM. Reason: brain fart
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  #45  
Old 11-08-2013, 07:07 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
If the 4 Series interior is identical to the 3 Series (which is apparently is) then it's worlds apart in quality and luxury (both in tangible tactile feel and perception based refined design language) to the 5 Series interior. The F30 inside doesn't even seem like it's from the same manufacturer to me.

Aside from material quality, which I find substandard in the 3, the design looks terrible to me, not exuding a "high end" ambiance, IMO.
For me it has more to do with the design approach - here is a cross post of something I wrote a while back on the subject:

***

...weight isn't the issue here. It's aesthetic design: I think BMW made some big mistakes with the F3x that were avoidable.

First, the flow of the dash to the center console is abrupt. It's because of the cupholders. They took the approach this time of making room for them in front of the shifter. It makes for a better cupholder, but it creates a gap between the bottom of the HVAC/audio cluster and the center console, which they covered with dashboard plastic. This presentation is typical of a small car where there isn't enough room to incorporate the storage into the flow of the dash, and we see it executed very similarly in the Civic and Focus - even in the Accord, which is as large as the F30 and where the design is also a mistake. The F10, by comparison, makes use of some added room and provides an elegant, hideable cupholder area that does not interefere with the dash-to-console flow.

The cupholders in the E90 and the E60 were stupid, for sure. But their design required no accounting in dashboard space and avoided this issue. Which is why the E90 and E60 interiors were so similar, despite size differences.

The second F30 issue is the navigation display. It simply should have been integrated more effectively into the dashboard arrangement. I think the F30 design places the HVAC/audio control cluster a little too high up (again, because of the cupholders) and forces that inconvenient Nav display placement.

Third, the whole dashboard is too upright. This was actually a slight problem with the E90 also. It makes the car feel smaller than it is inside. Look at the Lexus IS and the Infiniti Q50 - both have better dashboard geometry in this sense.
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  #46  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:53 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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Here's where the argument on the F3x interior gets some weight: go look at the interior of the upcoming 2 series. Same.

It's a little hard to feel like your 4 series is an upscale 3 series when the part of it your eyes see every day looks just like the entry level BMW.

If they had built the F3x with an interior that seemed like a compacted F10 interior, this would be a whole different discussion.
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:10 PM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
This is not another M5 vs. 550i thread.

I have 2011 535 now. I'm in the market for a new car in the next few months. I love F10 styling, but I'm not a big fan of the drive. 535 has enough power for me, but I missed old BMW handling, fun and steering feel.
Just a thought, have you driven a 6 series?

The lower center of gravity, slightly shorter wheelbase and a lot of other considerations give you better handling, at the cost of a backseat that isn't really usable except for small children. If a 3 series was big enough, a 6 should be fine, will have a great interior, and you can look at the 640 if 535 power was enough.
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:18 PM
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  #49  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:45 PM
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2014 M5 vs. 2014 550i

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
That sounds like about a $1200 fix on the 550, then, and you're still a college education ahead of the price of an M5. More or less...
A college education? More like half a year of a college education.


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  #50  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
A college education? More like half a year of a college education.


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Still a non-trivial amount, no?
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