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F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)
The 2 Series coupe is the replacement for the E82/E88 1 series coupe. Production starts in November 2013 on the 228i (N20) and M235i (N55) coupes. Look for them in dealerships in February 2014. The convertible F23 2 series will follow in the fall of 2014.

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  #1  
Old 11-03-2013, 10:50 PM
tonyb.ca tonyb.ca is offline
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Smile Why no USA (Canada) version of 1 series 3 or 5 door?

With all of the marketing surrounding the i series and emphasis on mileage, why is it that we in North America do not see anything like a 116d or a 118d? The last effort at a BMW econobox over here was the 318ti of the late 1990s. We never saw the e46 version.

I am curious, why there is no effort to market either the small gas engines, or the small diesels. The fuel consumption numbers should be sufficient to warrant enough interest. Id love to have one as a city car. The i3 doesn't have the necessary range or external refuelling stations yet, and the i8 is a bit beyond my means - or should I say, a LOT beyond my means.

Interestingly enough, when I toured BMW Welt, I met another visitor from Toronto who uttered the same disappointments, as have a few dealers, so I am curious for the reasoning. I do appreciate the mileage of that I am seeing for the 328d, but the small diesels manage fuel consumption of about 4.4 combined which is less than a Golf!

With a 100KPH speed limit, the last thing I need to see is another impractical Rocket?

Follow-on question:
Why is there no justice? Over here, all I get is high performance BMWs I would lose my license for driving anywhere near where it gets interesting, and on the Autobahn, all I get is 318s?

Last edited by tonyb.ca; 11-03-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:43 AM
dogbolter dogbolter is offline
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Usual story really...Americans typically associate expensive with big, hence all the huge SUVs and trucks on the road. Premium and small doesn't equate to them. Its us enthusiasts that tend to want the smaller cars...but I'm with you on the !series, love to have one...My wife has wanted a VW Polo GTI for ages.
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  #3  
Old 11-04-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyb.ca View Post
With all of the marketing surrounding the i series and emphasis on mileage, why is it that we in North America do not see anything like a 116d or a 118d? The last effort at a BMW econobox over here was the 318ti of the late 1990s.
You're talking about two different things - economy and hatchbacks. Economy isn't as important to Americans because our fuel has traditionally been MUCH cheaper than Europeans. Its not that long ago that we were paying under $1/gallon. Now that its stayed high for awhile, people have been changing their perceptions and more small cars are becoming popular even for those with money.

As for hatchbacks, Americans equate hatchbacks with cheapness. Not only was the 318ti a failure, but the later Mercedes C-class hatch didn't sell well either.

Personally, I've long wanted a 320d. It gives about the same fuel economy as the 116d or 118d since they all have a 2.0L diesel, just in different trim levels. Hatches put more space in a given length (important in European cities), but a sedan is more aerodynamic.
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:53 PM
tonyb.ca tonyb.ca is offline
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You wrote:
You're talking about two different things - economy and hatchbacks.

It isn't particularly the hatchback, it is the small engine & configuration I was referring mostly to. The current 3 series is getting pretty bloated. The point I was making was that it would be great to see a conventional (non-hybrid or electric) vehicle that is economical on fuel, and still stays near the base price point of a 3 series.

There is the 328d, but it hits the wallet at about 2 Golf/Jetta diesels ($48K CAD base, $60K configured), and only comes as an automatic X-drive (no M-Sport or manual transmission option in Canada), ... and it still doesn't get the numbers the 1 series does. The X1 also doesn't come with a small diesel configuration.


So yes, what I am asking for is a small diesel with a standard transmission and RWD. I know this is unlikely because the marketing people have determined (a) North Americans can't/won't shift and (b) must have large engines, despite 100KM ~ 65MPH speed limits. NO, I do not want a tail dragger, but if I get desperate and FWD is the only way, then BMW leaves me no choice but to look at VW & Audi who will still sell me a standard with a diesel.


Next trip to Germany I intend to go out of my way to try one of the 1 series out!
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2013, 08:40 PM
tonyb.ca tonyb.ca is offline
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
You're talking about two different things - economy and hatchbacks. Economy isn't as important to Americans because our fuel has traditionally been MUCH cheaper than Europeans. Its not that long ago that we were paying under $1/gallon. Now that its stayed high for awhile, people have been changing their perceptions and more small cars are becoming popular even for those with money.

As for hatchbacks, Americans equate hatchbacks with cheapness. Not only was the 318ti a failure, but the later Mercedes C-class hatch didn't sell well either.

Personally, I've long wanted a 320d. It gives about the same fuel economy as the 116d or 118d since they all have a 2.0L diesel, just in different trim levels. Hatches put more space in a given length (important in European cities), but a sedan is more aerodynamic.

There is nothing the matter with inexpensiveness as long as we aren't talking poor quality, and I was not too particular about the body style.

I'm in Canada, and we've seen $1.50/l for Premium, or about $80+ per fill up. It will only get worse. Let's also not forget about at least "trying" to be "green". No matter how you cut it, half the fuel mileage is about twice the greenhouse gasses. I am not convinced Hybrids or Batteries are much better alternatives. Where does the electricity come from? What happens to the batteries?

Curious: How do VW & Audi manage to sell so many small diesels in N/A, and nobody else seems to?


FYI numbers:

116d = 4.3l/100KM
120d = 4.5l/100KM
328d = 7.4 l/100KM

All are with the 2.0l 4 cyl Turbo-Diesel
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  #6  
Old 11-05-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
Economy isn't as important to Americans because our fuel has traditionally been MUCH cheaper than Europeans. Its not that long ago that we were paying under $1/gallon. Now that its stayed high for awhile, people have been changing their perceptions and more small cars are becoming popular even for those with money.
Americans have, pure and simple, a huge Euro envy. Two examples:

1. If the Europeans must spend, for example, $15 on fuel to travel 100 miles because the fuel costs 3 times more than in U.S. then Americans will show those a-holes that they can spend $15 to travel 100 miles as well by buying a vehicle that consumes three times more than that European car. Who the f*ck those Europeans think they are? Think I can't spend that money on gas, bud? Hold my beer and watch this!

2. If the Europeans must spend 2 hours to travel 100 miles because of heavy traffic and congestion caused by way too many cars per lane mile of space available, then Americans, by God, can show those snotty Europeans that they, too, can spend 2 hours to travel 100 miles even if our roads are huge and number of cars per lane mile of space is very low when compared to them. How do they do that? Easy, by making the speed limit ridiculously low, by placing traffic lights and 4-way stops on every intersection. Done. No, scratch that, OVERdone - now we need 2.5 hours to travel 100 miles. Take that, Euro trash!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyb.ca View Post
You wrote:
So yes, what I am asking for is a small diesel with a standard transmission and RWD.
Minus RWD, check my signature for 118d BMWNA SE. I'm very happy with it. Thank you, BMWNA for getting that car in my garage!

Quote:
Next trip to Germany I intend to go out of my way to try one of the 1 series out!
You don't have to go out of your way, findin 1er to rent is realtively easy. Sixt will let you actually book 1 series specifically (at least at MUC). To be 100% sure, just book with 2-3 companies for same dates at same airport (Sixt, Avis and Europcar for example) and see which one has 1er for rent when you land.
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Last edited by Mark K; 11-05-2013 at 12:49 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:01 PM
dogbolter dogbolter is offline
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[QUOTE=Mark K;7938960]Americans have, pure and simple, a huge Euro envy. Two examples:

1. If the Europeans must spend, for example, $15 on fuel to travel 100 miles because the fuel costs 3 times more than in U.S. then Americans will show those a-holes that they can spend $15 to travel 100 miles as well by buying a vehicle that consumes three times more than that European car. Who the f*ck those Europeans think they are? Think I can't spend that money on gas, bud? Hold my beer and watch this!

2. If the Europeans must spend 2 hours to travel 100 miles because of heavy traffic and congestion caused by way too many cars per lane mile of space available, then Americans, by God, can show those snotty Europeans that they, too, can spend 2 hours to travel 100 miles even if our roads are huge and number of cars per lane mile of space is very low when compared to them. How do they do that? Easy, by making the speed limit ridiculously low, by placing traffic lights and 4-way stops on every intersection. Done. No, scratch that, OVERdone - now we need 2.5 hours to travel 100 miles. Take that, Euro trash!

Yes for flip sake get rid of stop signs and put some 'kin roundabouts in. Any morons who can't work out how to use one should be banned from driving for life!
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2013, 03:27 PM
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Personally, I've long wanted a 320d.
The US "328d" is the 320d. They wanted it to compete at the 328i trim level, but it's the 20d engine in there.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyb.ca View Post
So yes, what I am asking for is a small diesel with a standard transmission and RWD. I know this is unlikely because the marketing people have determined (a) North Americans can't/won't shift and (b) must have large engines, despite 100KM ~ 65MPH speed limits.
It's a bit more complicated than that, of course.

I don't know about Canada, but in the US there are high costs to certifying an engine, and further costs to certifying a particular model of car. If they wanted to sell the 3-series in ten different engine options, they could, but the sales of the less popular options probably wouldn't be enough to make it worth it. They are doing four engines this year, up from two previously, so that's progress.

The other side is of course what you allude to - Americans (generally) want bigger/faster, and don't understand smaller/weaker premium vehicles in the way that Europeans do. If they release a 316d and nobody buys it, they risk losing money, but they also damage their "premium" brand.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:54 PM
tonyb.ca tonyb.ca is offline
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The US "328d" is the 320d. They wanted it to compete at the 328i trim level, but it's the 20d engine in there.
If I read things correctly, the 2 litre diesel is already over here (328d is US as well), but I think the problem is more in line with the perceived dilution of the brand on the part of the Marketing folks about bringing in a smaller car. Again, I reiterate, VW and Audi can do it, so why can't BMW?

We HAVE forgotten our roots. I still miss my old E30. (sigh)

I am curious how the Opel, or shall I say Chevy Cruze, is going to fare.
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:46 PM
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If I read things correctly, the 2 litre diesel is already over here (328d is US as well), but I think the problem is more in line with the perceived dilution of the brand on the part of the Marketing folks about bringing in a smaller car. Again, I reiterate, VW and Audi can do it, so why can't BMW?
What I was saying is there is no international 328d.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_S...Diesel_engines

The car called the 328d in the US would be called the 320d in the rest of the world, based on the engine.
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2013, 08:05 PM
tonyb.ca tonyb.ca is offline
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What I was saying is there is no international 328d.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_S...Diesel_engines

The car called the 328d in the US would be called the 320d in the rest of the world, based on the engine.
You're right. Interestingly enough, the Canadian spec reports mixed fuel consumption of 7.4l/100km, whereas the German site reports 4.9l/100km for the same vehicle. It looks like the 3 may not be too bad in terms of consumption after all.

I would still want to lose the automatic and X-drive though, and still like the smaller body style.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:10 AM
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Yeah many BMW fans have been clamoring for them to bring a hatch to the US for a long time. Maybe the 318ti was the wrong car at the wrong time, but perceptions have changed a lot since then. In fact, my mom (who had an X3) saw a picture of a the european 1 series. She wanted one badly. And when she found at BMW wouldn't sell her one she bought a Ford Focus instead! So I think they are losing customers. Plus, they're already going to import the 2 series which is really just the coupe version of the hatch, so how hard could it be? They've tried to fill every other nice/bodystyle so its kind of strange at this point.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:11 PM
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I would rock the hell out of a 118d three door - M sport.

My favorite car I saw while at the Welt.

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Old 12-14-2013, 10:22 AM
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Maybe Cda can serve as bmw's NA entry point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyb.ca View Post
You're right. Interestingly enough, the Canadian spec reports mixed fuel consumption of 7.4l/100km, whereas the German site reports 4.9l/100km for the same vehicle. It looks like the 3 may not be too bad in terms of consumption after all.

I would still want to lose the automatic and X-drive though, and still like the smaller body style.
I am right with you (and actually just down the road from you in Mississauga). Would love to see more choice in the smaller segment size with econo diesel options. Perhaps Canada where we have had a greater affinity to both diesels and hatchbacks can serve as bmw's foray into NA. I recall as a young lad wanting a 318ti hatchback badly but ended up going for a used VW GTI instead which was a fantastic ride. Lord knows BMW enjoys much fatter margins here than in the US.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:46 AM
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Generally speaking, the Canadian market is closely tied to that of the (much larger) US market. And generally speaking, the average American will want/buy a car that drinks far too much fuel while taking up too much space (more space than needed for a personal vehicle) while driving too slowly and not using all that excessive power he/she bought while costing as little as possible to get as much as possible. Necessity just isn't in American vocabulary - sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not so much. So whether they want it or not, the Canadians get what the Americans get.

Why else would Americans insist that a 7 series come with a V8, minimum? (I admit, I'm outdated, I don't know what silliness BMW is offering these days, but back in the E38 days, the smallest you could get was the M62 4.4L V8). In the rest of the world, most people are happy to putter around in the 7ers and S-Klasse and what not with their dinky 2.0L deisels or 3.0L sixes (again, not precise since it's been a while since I was abroad and saw a lot of premium sedans). Why? Because you don't need that much power to get around town. When I did ED last year, my N52 3.0L was WAY bigger than just about everything on the road in Germany. Drinks a helluva lot more gas too. Anyways, I digress...

We will probably never get a 1er again, because it would make no sense to spend 35g on a tiny hatch when you could get a much larger (fill in the blank) with more power and more "options" and "bling" under 30g.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:52 AM
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Either American buyers are stupid, or the carmakers think we're stupid. Probably both.

Mercedes illustrates the issue perfectly.

They have the A45 AMG, sweet premium hot hatchback.

For the US, they chop off the hatch and make an ugly sedan out of it.

Then again for the US they make a compact SUV version of the same car, the GLA AMG and sell it for $10k more.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Texan Engineer View Post
Generally speaking, the Canadian market is closely tied to that of the (much larger) US market. And generally speaking, the average American will want/buy a car that drinks far too much fuel while taking up too much space (more space than needed for a personal vehicle) while driving too slowly and not using all that excessive power he/she bought while costing as little as possible to get as much as possible. Necessity just isn't in American vocabulary - sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not so much. So whether they want it or not, the Canadians get what the Americans get.

Why else would Americans insist that a 7 series come with a V8, minimum? (I admit, I'm outdated, I don't know what silliness BMW is offering these days, but back in the E38 days, the smallest you could get was the M62 4.4L V8). In the rest of the world, most people are happy to putter around in the 7ers and S-Klasse and what not with their dinky 2.0L deisels or 3.0L sixes (again, not precise since it's been a while since I was abroad and saw a lot of premium sedans). Why? Because you don't need that much power to get around town. When I did ED last year, my N52 3.0L was WAY bigger than just about everything on the road in Germany. Drinks a helluva lot more gas too. Anyways, I digress...

We will probably never get a 1er again, because it would make no sense to spend 35g on a tiny hatch when you could get a much larger (fill in the blank) with more power and more "options" and "bling" under 30g.
Interesting comments, but I'm not sure about some of it. A number of factors come into play here. For example, evidently our fuel absolutely sucks so the engines have high octane requirements and warranty weasel words. I noticed this in my 5er Manual.

The other thing that we need to keep in mind is that the marketing folks have taken over. I think in North America it is all about image and the perceived value of "the brand". This explains the difficulty that we have getting a trailer hitch on a BMW. As an example, there is a negative perception here to using a BMW as a tow vehicle, so there is no towing option available for the same vehicles that are widely used in that role in Europe, despite the fact that we have the beefy drivetrains.

How did BMW make its initial inroads into North America? My first exposure was 2002s and 320s. Yes there were a few Bavarias. The first car I owned was an E30. The modern 3 series is approaching the size of my E61. This is in line with what you write, but BMW Marketing has missed the point here. Why do we like our BMWs? Sure the big beast is interesting, but my favorites are still the light and nimble rear wheel drives that got us here! Updated, of course! (Mini? No Thanks! ... If I want a tail dragger, I'll buy a Honda, Audi, VW, ... ?) Nobody wants a small diesel? That's why there are so many TDI Golfs and Jettas on the road! (... tail dragger again!)

They sell the 1 series in Mexico, you just can't license one less than 20 years old north of the Rio Grande.

Yes, it is unmistakeable that the Canadian market is a microcosm of the US. Sometimes we're used to test entry into the US market (Hyundai as of late) and sometimes we're treated like American Europeans. Our gauges are metric, so it's actually easier to "port" the car. Yes, we too seem to have the same crazy perception of bigger being better. Having said this, I am sure that even the lowest 1 series can handle hauling around 2 people and a couple of 15 pound bikes, maybe even with the dog and some groceries in the back!

Follow-on question:
Why is that the North American marketing geniuses have determined that we want the current entry level 1 series to be more expensive and fatter than the entry level 3 series? Is it too much to ask for to have BMW get back to its roots? I for one would like to see a modernized and updated 2002 equivalent! The 1 series seems to be the ideal platform!

So, ... How do we get the message to sink in? ... or do I assume that I am a member of a minority and we're all off base?
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyb.ca View Post
Interesting comments, but I'm not sure about some of it. A number of factors come into play here. For example, evidently our fuel absolutely sucks so the engines have high octane requirements and warranty weasel words. I noticed this in my 5er Manual.

The other thing that we need to keep in mind is that the marketing folks have taken over. I think in North America it is all about image and the perceived value of "the brand". This explains the difficulty that we have getting a trailer hitch on a BMW. As an example, there is a negative perception here to using a BMW as a tow vehicle, so there is no towing option available for the same vehicles that are widely used in that role in Europe, despite the fact that we have the beefy drivetrains.

How did BMW make its initial inroads into North America? My first exposure was 2002s and 320s. Yes there were a few Bavarias. The first car I owned was an E30. The modern 3 series is approaching the size of my E61. This is in line with what you write, but BMW Marketing has missed the point here. Why do we like our BMWs? Sure the big beast is interesting, but my favorites are still the light and nimble rear wheel drives that got us here! Updated, of course! (Mini? No Thanks! ... If I want a tail dragger, I'll buy a Honda, Audi, VW, ... ?) Nobody wants a small diesel? That's why there are so many TDI Golfs and Jettas on the road! (... tail dragger again!)

They sell the 1 series in Mexico, you just can't license one less than 20 years old north of the Rio Grande.

Yes, it is unmistakeable that the Canadian market is a microcosm of the US. Sometimes we're used to test entry into the US market (Hyundai as of late) and sometimes we're treated like American Europeans. Our gauges are metric, so it's actually easier to "port" the car. Yes, we too seem to have the same crazy perception of bigger being better. Having said this, I am sure that even the lowest 1 series can handle hauling around 2 people and a couple of 15 pound bikes, maybe even with the dog and some groceries in the back!

Follow-on question:
Why is that the North American marketing geniuses have determined that we want the current entry level 1 series to be more expensive and fatter than the entry level 3 series? Is it too much to ask for to have BMW get back to its roots? I for one would like to see a modernized and updated 2002 equivalent! The 1 series seems to be the ideal platform!

So, ... How do we get the message to sink in? ... or do I assume that I am a member of a minority and we're all off base?
Agreed on almost all points. Down here though, almost no one buys diesel. Granted diesel being a good $0.80 more isn't helping. And plenty of cars are sufficient but everyone insists on having a car (cough truck) that can tow that 2349587345 million lb (kg, divide by 2.2ish for ye Canadians ) boat that they have not yet bought.

Also, I believe the import rule is 25 years for the US, but 15 for Canada. But no, we almost definitely are in the minority. A very small minority, and shrinking. Not even "car guys" go for manuals these days, that should tell you something. I remember a time when it was a given that sport(y) cars were ONLY manual. And they were difficult to drive. And deadly sometimes. You know, cars that actually required that thing called SKILL.

Yea, driving is supposed to be engaging right? I'm just glad I got one of the last BMW's to follow the original formula, before the marketing guys botched it all up...

(I think we're really going of topic now...)
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:57 PM
dogbolter dogbolter is offline
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Originally Posted by Texan Engineer View Post
Generally speaking, the Canadian market is closely tied to that of the (much larger) US market. And generally speaking, the average American will want/buy a car that drinks far too much fuel while taking up too much space (more space than needed for a personal vehicle) while driving too slowly and not using all that excessive power he/she bought while costing as little as possible to get as much as possible. Necessity just isn't in American vocabulary - sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not so much. So whether they want it or not, the Canadians get what the Americans get.

Why else would Americans insist that a 7 series come with a V8, minimum? (I admit, I'm outdated, I don't know what silliness BMW is offering these days, but back in the E38 days, the smallest you could get was the M62 4.4L V8). In the rest of the world, most people are happy to putter around in the 7ers and S-Klasse and what not with their dinky 2.0L deisels or 3.0L sixes (again, not precise since it's been a while since I was abroad and saw a lot of premium sedans). Why? Because you don't need that much power to get around town. When I did ED last year, my N52 3.0L was WAY bigger than just about everything on the road in Germany. Drinks a helluva lot more gas too. Anyways, I digress...

We will probably never get a 1er again, because it would make no sense to spend 35g on a tiny hatch when you could get a much larger (fill in the blank) with more power and more "options" and "bling" under 30g.
My Texan mind reader! Bang on bruv,
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:26 AM
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Chris90 Chris90 is offline
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Why is that the North American marketing geniuses have determined that we want the current entry level 1 series to be more expensive and fatter than the entry level 3 series? Is it too much to ask for to have BMW get back to its roots? I for one would like to see a modernized and updated 2002 equivalent! The 1 series seems to be the ideal platform!
What sort of 1 series are you hoping for? The only economical way to reduce weight is to use a small engine and reduce standard content.

I wish the moonroof was optional the M235i, that would save like 40 lbs at the highest point on the car. Retarded to make that standard on a performance car.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:10 AM
DslDwg DslDwg is offline
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I love a diesel engine - but I'm a gear head.

It's hard to get most Americans excited about diesels in cars because of the perception of noise and smoke. Of course neither is true anymore.

Many U.S. markets diesel is substantially more expensive than gasoline even high octane versions. Some markets it can even be difficult to find.

Finally automakers have gained a lot of efficiency with their gasoline engines making the gap much narrower between diesel and gasoline engine fuel economies.

Diesel used to have reputation for long lasting reliability. Mechanically most still due but unfortunately diesels have had to add a lot of electronic complexity to meet modern emission standards. Meaning that they are not really any more reliable than gasoline engines.

Until we have to deal with $9.00/gal gas in the U.S. I can't see a big change happening. Work trucks will remain diesel and a handful of car models.
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:18 PM
tonyb.ca tonyb.ca is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
What sort of 1 series are you hoping for? The only economical way to reduce weight is to use a small engine and reduce standard content.

I wish the moonroof was optional the M235i, that would save like 40 lbs at the highest point on the car. Retarded to make that standard on a performance car.
I have been up to the German site, and a little BMW 118d 3-Türer M Sport (or a 120i if we want an engine that's already here), standard transmission thank you! . . . would do me just fine as a daily driver. I haven't actually driven one yet; maybe next trip to München. I don't know how the earlier people managed it, but everytime I've rented a car at MUC, I get the "or equivalent" and free "upgrade" instead of what I asked for. It's either that or I walk.

If I want a big lump in the front (per Jeremy Clarkson) I'll get an M something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DslDwg View Post
I love a diesel engine - but I'm a gear head.

. . .

Until we have to deal with $9.00/gal gas in the U.S. I can't see a big change happening. Work trucks will remain diesel and a handful of car models.
Up here, Premium is headed for $1.50/liter this summer and diesel is still a bit cheaper, usually about $.10 less. Agreed, however, that the gas engines have caught up while the diesels have become more complex. It's very near a toss up, but I'll write off that argument as my old biases kicking in.

Yes, the current 128 or 135 M-Sport is a possibility, but again I haven't driven one. It might be close to my old E30 (on steroids for the 135).
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:31 PM
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Chris90 Chris90 is offline
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Originally Posted by tonyb.ca View Post
I have been up to the German site, and a little BMW 118d 3-Türer M Sport (or a 120i if we want an engine that's already here), standard transmission thank you! . . . would do me just fine as a daily driver. I haven't actually driven one yet; maybe next trip to München. I don't know how the earlier people managed it, but everytime I've rented a car at MUC, I get the "or equivalent" and free "upgrade" instead of what I asked for. It's either that or I walk.

If I want a big lump in the front (per Jeremy Clarkson) I'll get an M something.
One of the most fun cars I've driven was a 1.6L Audi A3 I had as a rental in Germany in 2001. 100 hp but the engine revved like a motorcycle engine, was a total blast.
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