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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 10-25-2013, 08:30 PM
Bill1100 Bill1100 is offline
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Thumbs down Portholes?

The portholes remind me of my Dad's '55 Buick Roadmaster. I think they looked better on the Buick...

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/b...er/#item=81323
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2013, 08:36 PM
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Every article I have read about the Ghibli mentions the relationship to Chrysler, which I am sure comes from corporate talking points. The very idea that Maserati seems to tout this as a way of saying this thing is more reliable than your average Maserati is enough for me to give it a big fat “No!” I have owned a few Chryslers and this is not a selling point for me. I also don’t think I could ever overcome the horror of the Maserati BiTurbo and Chrysler TC by Maserati.

I bet the depreciation will make a bigger sucking sound than the US National debt.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2013, 08:42 PM
f01driver f01driver is offline
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Well the interior has Chrysler parts including the navigation, the exterior looks tacky. I can't see this car competing against the 5 series which imo is the best looking car in the segment since Mercedes decide to ruin the e class with it's suspect styling.
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2013, 09:31 PM
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Chrysler switchgear, start button, Navi, dash layout, plastic parts, window switches, all for just just around $80K? Where do I sign up?

I also am tired of Sedans doing the reverse-mullet look, i.e "party in the front, business in the back". The Ghibli's (and new QP's) rear looks about as generic, cheap and "Rental-Car-ish" as almost any budget priced Sedan coming out of either Asia, America and even Europe.

Make no mistake about it: The Ghibli is an AMERICAN car with an Italian engine and probably suspension engineering, and some extra swathes of leather (who are reported to not smell and feel as rich as your typical "Italian leather").

It sounds like it might be the sportiest choice in this segment, based on reviews, but it's tangible parts and build/design quality that would deter me, not to mention Chrysler/Dodge interior layout.

It will initially sell based on being the cheapest entry into such a classically aspirational badge, and ironically enough it being a Chrysler 300 with lots of makeup and surgery will make it more reliable than a true Italian Exotic, however the REAL car that I'm waiting for and that will have BMW and M-B quaking in their boots will be the Porsche Pajun (or whatever they'll call it). Porsche's don't depreciate nearly as much (just look at Panamera prices in a segment where S Classes and 7 Series' plummet in value instantly) as lease-heavy Bimmers and Benzes therefore the Pajun might actually be one of the rare cars in this segment worth buying and not seeing your money deplete so quickly within.
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2013, 02:06 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImolaRedM View Post
Italian cars are nice to look at and sound nice driving.

How many repeat buyers are there?

I would buy a Porsche over a Ferrari, all things being equal. Given the chance to drive one for a day I might go for the Ferrari. The same is true if the option was BMW vs Masaratti.

When I was younger, my GF had an Alpha. Fun car to drive when it wasn't in the shop but build quality was crap. Drove some older Ferarris and while the quality was much better, I could see myself getting tired of driving it but they make nice garage queens, weekend drivers.

I'll pass on the Italian cars. I'll take a BMW or Porsche, thank you.
This reminds me, I owned an Alfa quadrofiogli, only for 20 months, the garage was called garage Veloce, a very good place to bring your Alfa to when you lived in Amsterdam. I knew everybody there by their name, no wonder I made biweekly visits.

Last edited by Sophisto; 10-27-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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  #31  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:12 AM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Personally I adore the chic modern UI of the iDrive interface. However after a couple months with modern chic ui, that high wears off real fast, when going to your local supermarket with BMWs "fastest route" entails driving 20 miles away from your destination and then 20 miles back (BMW fast route) even with the latest "premium maps". In that regards I cant hold any qualms to using Chryslers amazingly simple and effective uconnect system. Yes using Chryslers parts bin is not what most people want to hear after dropping upwards of $75k on a maserati, but then again if you look at RR, they get away with using Mini/BMW group software & hardware every day and their prices are no were near what maserati is charging for a sedan targeted for the 5/A5/E/GS owners. I think the automotive industry is gearing up to be as efficient and economic as possible, as were seeing alot of automakers share their IPs throughout all their brands, regardless of the target demographic. However to take away the stigma of using lower cost-inferior items they are injecting their vehicle with enough of the traditional brand image items that most would-be owners will never realize that they have a car thats parts sharing with a lower priced partner brand.

Examples of this new trend (or old)
Cayenne, Q7, T-egg
RR Ghost/BMW 7 series
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  #32  
Old 10-26-2013, 12:34 PM
eyeatl eyeatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
This....

They should do a comparison test between cars that has been on the road for 2-3 years to see which one is holding up and which one is falling apart.

I am willing to bet that the Ghibli will be in MUCH worse shape than a F10 after some miles based on all the crap I've read about the Quattroporte

Alan
I own a 2009 Quattroporte GTS and a 2013 BMW 650GC. They are different animals. I have had no problems with the Maserati as a daily driver. The only downside is the $2000 oil change every year and that fact that it eats the rear tires. But that might be due to the way I drive it

That Ferrari built V8 has an amazing feel and sound that other makes have not been able to match.
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  #33  
Old 10-26-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoI4plz View Post
Personally I adore the chic modern UI of the iDrive interface. However after a couple months with modern chic ui, that high wears off real fast, when going to your local supermarket with BMWs "fastest route" entails driving 20 miles away from your destination and then 20 miles back (BMW fast route) even with the latest "premium maps". In that regards I cant hold any qualms to using Chryslers amazingly simple and effective uconnect system. Yes using Chryslers parts bin is not what most people want to hear after dropping upwards of $75k on a maserati, but then again if you look at RR, they get away with using Mini/BMW group software & hardware every day and their prices are no were near what maserati is charging for a sedan targeted for the 5/A5/E/GS owners. I think the automotive industry is gearing up to be as efficient and economic as possible, as were seeing alot of automakers share their IPs throughout all their brands, regardless of the target demographic. However to take away the stigma of using lower cost-inferior items they are injecting their vehicle with enough of the traditional brand image items that most would-be owners will never realize that they have a car thats parts sharing with a lower priced partner brand.

Examples of this new trend (or old)
Cayenne, Q7, T-egg
RR Ghost/BMW 7 series
The difference is that BMW parts and inherent design is considered premium from the get-go, therefore is a far better stepping stone. You can see from the chassis (over) engineering of the F10, i.e it being above and beyond in chassis rigidity and quietness than anything its segment has ever seen, how capable the inherent "bones" are to justify the RR nameplate.

Chrysler on the other hand has interior parts and designs that look and feel cheap on even budget priced cars when compared to its competitors. For example, a gear selector is so important to me that I'd almost pay the $500 for SAT even if it meant the shifter was the ONLY thing that changed on my BMW. With the Germans you get inherent quality, care put into the material, heft, design and weight of something like a shifter (at least that's what you'd expect them to do). A Chrysler shifter will generally feel classically American-car cheap to me when your senses are more "refined" to a higher quality shifter, therefore having that same tactile quality and design in a Maser will always be a sore reminder of the car you're "really" sitting in, IMO.
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  #34  
Old 10-26-2013, 07:36 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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It wasnt just oil versus gremlins. These cars were quirky and, instead of software gremlins you would get carburettor problems, stalling, electrical intermittents often incurable, cooling problems,head gaskets leaking,balky gearboxes etc. Lets be real here. Our BMW s are usually more reliable than that.
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  #35  
Old 10-27-2013, 08:13 AM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Maserati Ghibli - A replacement for your 5 Series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastpaddler View Post
It wasnt just oil versus gremlins. These cars were quirky and, instead of software gremlins you would get carburettor problems, stalling, electrical intermittents often incurable, cooling problems,head gaskets leaking,balky gearboxes etc. Lets be real here. Our BMW s are usually more reliable than that.
The depreciation numbers bear this out. Maseratis drop in value like bricks. An out of warranty Maserati is practically I sellable.

My buddy bought his spyder new for $115k and sold it after 4 years for $20k.


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  #36  
Old 10-27-2013, 05:49 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
The depreciation numbers bear this out. Maseratis drop in value like bricks. An out of warranty Maserati is practically I sellable.

My buddy bought his spyder new for $115k and sold it after 4 years for $20k.


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Well spoken. I got 21,000$ for my 2006 BMW325i in Jan/2011 due to condition and service records. That's one reason I prefer BMWs. Hold their value.
Al
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  #37  
Old 11-02-2013, 07:36 AM
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Maserati Ghibli - A replacement for your 5 Series?

Finally saw a Ghibli today in the flesh. VERY underwhelming. Lacked any kind of drama whatsoever. My wife said "doesn't look very sporty......."

Ouch.


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Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #38  
Old 11-02-2013, 07:51 AM
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Maserati Ghibli - A replacement for your 5 Series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Finally saw a Ghibli today in the flesh. VERY underwhelming. Lacked any kind of drama whatsoever. My wife said "doesn't look very sporty......."

Ouch.


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Would be interesting to see one parked next to an Infiniti Q50. They're almost twins.


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  #39  
Old 11-02-2013, 09:25 AM
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Would be interesting to see one parked next to an Infiniti Q50. They're almost twins.


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Not exactly parked side by side but this photo shows the similar styling between the two cars.

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  #40  
Old 11-02-2013, 01:21 PM
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Thanks for posting that picture. This is the first car I've seen in a while that looks worse in the flesh than in pictures.

In the flesh, that front 1/4 view doesn't look good, it looks odd. You realize the front end detail is really at the front 1/4 of the car, and that there is a long hood behind the headlights that is just very bland and blocky. Those arches above the front wheels all but disappear. The rising line over the rear wheels all but disappears. The hood creasing disappears. Blah.

The car I looked at was black, possibly flat black. Compared to a Jet Black F10, this car looks totally unresolved, and without any detailing or drama at all.

The interior was also black and it looked very bland. Very, very bland and basic.

NO thanks!!
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  #41  
Old 11-02-2013, 11:07 PM
neilsarkar neilsarkar is offline
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Maserati Ghibli - A replacement for your 5 Series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Thanks for posting that picture. This is the first car I've seen in a while that looks worse in the flesh than in pictures.

In the flesh, that front 1/4 view doesn't look good, it looks odd. You realize the front end detail is really at the front 1/4 of the car, and that there is a long hood behind the headlights that is just very bland and blocky. Those arches above the front wheels all but disappear. The rising line over the rear wheels all but disappears. The hood creasing disappears. Blah.

The car I looked at was black, possibly flat black. Compared to a Jet Black F10, this car looks totally unresolved, and without any detailing or drama at all.

The interior was also black and it looked very bland. Very, very bland and basic.

NO thanks!!
Point taken.

Lipstick-on-a-Chrysler == Still a Chrysler


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  #42  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Would be interesting to see one parked next to an Infiniti Q50. They're almost twins.


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The Inifiniti will probably look better. Save for that fugly front, it's actually a nice car in real life and looks far more resolved and coherent than the awkward Ghibli seems to be (what else do you expect from a Dodge trying to fit into an Italian suit).
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  #43  
Old 11-06-2013, 10:02 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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just got around to seeing this thread afterawhile

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
The difference is that BMW parts and inherent design is considered premium from the get-go, therefore is a far better stepping stone. You can see from the chassis (over) engineering of the F10, i.e it being above and beyond in chassis rigidity and quietness than anything its segment has ever seen, how capable the inherent "bones" are to justify the RR nameplate.

Chrysler on the other hand has interior parts and designs that look and feel cheap on even budget priced cars when compared to its competitors. For example, a gear selector is so important to me that I'd almost pay the $500 for SAT even if it meant the shifter was the ONLY thing that changed on my BMW. With the Germans you get inherent quality, care put into the material, heft, design and weight of something like a shifter (at least that's what you'd expect them to do). A Chrysler shifter will generally feel classically American-car cheap to me when your senses are more "refined" to a higher quality shifter, therefore having that same tactile quality and design in a Maser will always be a sore reminder of the car you're "really" sitting in, IMO.

I agree that BMW parts is considered premium from the get-go. RR has a great base to start out with as its a premium platform from conception. When RR designed their take on the F09 platform they replaced alot of components for their own desire.

Likewise when we dissect the Ghibli we arrive at a Chrysler 300 LX platform. The LX platform was designed under consultation with MB, and it arrived with components from the W210 and 220. When the Ghibli was designed these components were probably replaced with Maz spec items. So does that mean that we can still consider the Ghibli a italian 300? Idk food for thought I guess.

The shifter btw is straight out of ZFs part bin which almost all ZF-equipped cars are coming with. Volvo has the same shifter for their ZF trans.
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  #44  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:29 PM
Preludator Preludator is offline
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Italians make great cars and a joy to drive, smooth, sporty, quick but are known for their non-reliability and mechanical issues. For those in the US and not familiar with European cars, Fiat owns Ferrari, Alfa Romeos, and Maserati, hence many sub parts are taken from Fiat and used to build their cars. I have no doubt this new Maserati is a sublime toy to have in the garage but it looks as Italian super car as it should. For those who have a big bank account, reliability should not be a deterrent from buying one. I personally for $75k price tag will rather go with a 550i M-sport.
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  #45  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:55 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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I had Fiat GL in the past and the reliability was horrible.. I had 20K Miles on it and it was the worst car i ever owned.. a lot of mechanical and electrical issues..body corrosion.. Alternator problems twice a month, Oil Leaks, Timing belt broke and damaged the engine head and valves, poor electronics, brake and dashboard lights gets affected by the turn in signal!!. Even the wind shield wipers broke on a heavy rain trip!! It didn't have bolts on them (They stick them, Press, or glue them.. not sure) basically one day both wipers got detached from the motor base/head and there was no way to fix them.. bought new and after 3 months it broke again... This was in the 80s, however my Toyota Corona/Crown and Chevrolet Malibu did much much better in every aspect including at that time.. no way to compare !!

I do expect the Maserati to be the same, I checked some forums and looks like people go often to a level that they become friends with the Mechanic, go to his home and meet his wife and kids

Buttom line, only the mechanic will drive your car

Excuse my english.. I am not native
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  #46  
Old 11-08-2013, 05:19 PM
Akshun Akshun is offline
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Maserati Ghibli - A replacement for your 5 Series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS18661 View Post
I can't get past the name. I have a Maserati Giblet......
#classic


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  #47  
Old 12-18-2013, 10:45 AM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Not to bring back to life an old thread, but I just stumbled upon these two treasures:

http://jalopnik.com/5981180/who-care...ysler-switches

http://jalopnik.com/5981554/of-cours...in-luxury-cars

Haha reminiscent of our thread here just different car!
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  #48  
Old 12-18-2013, 10:51 AM
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I saw and sat in the Ghibli, btw.

Okay, the interior SUCKSSSS. It doesn't smell like that "Italian leather", instead just your basic mass produced leather offering. Yes it has some nice aspects but aside from the obvious Chrysler layout, the switches are a JOKE!! The cheapest, chintziest, most crappy feeling things from the cheap $15K Chrysler/Dodge shifter, to the horrid light switch, to some of the lower panels, etc. I'm a detail freak and this car didn't pass it by a long shot.

The exterior is okay, I don't love or hate it, though the rear looked very bland.

It's supposed to drive great though....
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  #49  
Old 12-18-2013, 11:07 AM
ae86pwr ae86pwr is offline
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Westlake Maserati has an launch party this Saturday if anyone cares for it.
Get a preview of the next generation Dodge Charger will be .. j/k
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  #50  
Old 12-19-2013, 06:13 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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some of you guys appear to be laboring under the misapprehension that the Ghibli is built on the same platform as the current Chrysler 300. It isn't. The Ghibli is the first car to use an all-new platform which is also going underpin a few other cars including a new Alfa Romeo and a future 300. The Ghibli is not built on the current 300 platform.

With that said, the Fiat group do have a few good chassis engineers at their disposal. They built the one under the 458, F12, FF and a few others after all. That's alright by me.
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