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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #126  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:59 AM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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I bet C&D haters are going to trash Motor Trend now.

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  #127  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:09 PM
BlackBerryCubed BlackBerryCubed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
I bet C&D haters are going to trash Motor Trend now.

You are correct, every negative review will be "due to publisher" not getting $$$$$ from bmw or the "testers" too stupid to know how to conduct testing ...
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  #128  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
I bet C&D haters are going to trash Motor Trend now.
Isnt MT car of the car usually reserve for newly design cars? There isnt much competition for new designs this model year. BTW, in my opinion, the new CTS design looks even worst from the front, although I do like the rear better than last year's CTS.
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  #129  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:37 PM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
In other news, Motor Trend just awarded the 2014 Car of the Year award to the Cadillac CTS.
At least the CTS isn't a butt ugly car like the Eclass is.

I actually like the CTS especially the front. The rear isn't the greatest but this thing has been on fire with all the reviews lately.
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  #130  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:11 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
At least the CTS isn't a butt ugly car like the Eclass is.

I actually like the CTS especially the front. The rear isn't the greatest but this thing has been on fire with all the reviews lately.
Looks are definitely quite subjective. Alan, I must say that I agree with you almost all the time and appreciate your long, well thought out postings.

In my opinion, the Mercedes E-Classes are great looking cars- from all angles. I especially like the way the E-350 Sport looks. I think the 5 Series is a better looking car.

Performance and handling: Does anyone really think that E Classes can equal that of a 5 Series? On a scale of 1-10, E-Class Sports model receives a 3 and the non-DHP, or non M Sport Passive suspension 5 Series, 3 year old model with 50K miles on it receives an 8 in my opinion. For PURE LUXURY, IMHO an argument can be made for the E Classes.

I find all the Cadillacs- including the CTS- unattractive. I think that I'll never get over the fact that their market for years was old guys parked waiting for the Early Bird Special, and how terrible the quality of their product was. I keep hearing how much better they're getting, and how great they perform. Not sure how the rest of North America Cadillac dealers are, but the couple that I've been to in New Jersey are AWFUL- I'll never return.

The BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, Infinity and Acura dealers in my area are all run by professionals. Salespeople and management that understands how to speak and act around other professionals.

I do wonder how the Cadillac dealers in other parts of the country are?
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  #131  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:26 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
I bet C&D haters are going to trash Motor Trend now.

Not surprised by this at all and won't disagree with it.

Elon Musk is a brilliant guy who's trying to make a monumental change to the car industry- using a different energy source. He builds cars that many car enthusiasts like and is trying to solve the biggest issue that electric cars have: building a network of charging stations. His cars get an equivalent of a tank of gas to 1 charge. So for most people this means charging the car over night at worst, or for many- just charging it overnight once per week or less often than that.

BMW has an electric car, and so do many car manufacturers. If there's a network built in California and it functions well, it could expand to other parts of the country. Imagine if one's car could be charged rather quickly while grabbing a cup of coffee, or if the battery could be swapped out like a gas tank for a barbecue?

Yes, lots of imagination on my part. However, there's serious discussions going on.
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  #132  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:56 PM
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I don't know if anyone saw the latest American version of top gear, the Tesla Model S actually beat the 2014 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 in a drag race and in handling as well. Tesla is building a network of battery swap out stations around the US, I am starting to see a lot of Tesla Model S around here in the Northeast..

Last edited by The X Men; 11-07-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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  #133  
Old 11-07-2013, 04:22 PM
bluejayfan bluejayfan is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I don't know if anyone saw the latest American version of top gear, the Tesla Model S actually beat the 2014 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 in a drag race and in handling as well. Tesla is building a network of battery swap out stations around the US, I am starting to see a lot of Tesla Model S around here in the Northeast..
Third Tesla in the past month or two caught fire.... beautiful car, think at this early time in the technology I'd rather wait or at least use a company that's been in the industry for some time.
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  #134  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:54 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
Third Tesla in the past month or two caught fire.... beautiful car, think at this early time in the technology I'd rather wait or at least use a company that's been in the industry for some time.
Agree.

I'm not even an early adopter of a new car model, let alone one needing a different energy source. I'd like to see a charging network on all the major roads first.
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  #135  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:16 PM
kaysid kaysid is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
Not surprised by this at all and won't disagree with it.

Elon Musk is a brilliant guy who's trying to make a monumental change to the car industry- using a different energy source. He builds cars that many car enthusiasts like and is trying to solve the biggest issue that electric cars have: building a network of charging stations. His cars get an equivalent of a tank of gas to 1 charge. So for most people this means charging the car over night at worst, or for many- just charging it overnight once per week or less often than that.

BMW has an electric car, and so do many car manufacturers. If there's a network built in California and it functions well, it could expand to other parts of the country. Imagine if one's car could be charged rather quickly while grabbing a cup of coffee, or if the battery could be swapped out like a gas tank for a barbecue?

Yes, lots of imagination on my part. However, there's serious discussions going on.
BTW The cover image referenced above was from last year's Motor Trend COTY Award.
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  #136  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:49 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Originally Posted by kaysid View Post
BTW The cover image referenced above was from last year's Motor Trend COTY Award.
2014 COTY magazine cover isn't available yet.

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  #137  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
That's more likely due to the natural sales boost of a facelift that's been overdone enough to trick people into thinking that it's a new model. IMO M-B buyers don't really criticize the design of their brand-of-choices cars as much as BMW buyers do, i.e they just accept and assume that because Mercedes did it, it's good enough, especially the E line.
I have a friend that has brought only Benzes the last 15 years or so on lease. He thought that the mid cycle refresh was a brand new E. I had to remind him that it was not.
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  #138  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:57 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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I test drive everything and right now there are only 2 car manufacturers that both serve my needs and impress me: BMW and Porsche. And with what's on the market today I wouldn't consider buying anything else.

However I always test drive Mercedes, Jaguar, Lexus and Audi just in case they come up with something interesting. Of these the biggest disappointment is Mercedes - I love the brand and I want to buy one but the product is just crap.
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  #139  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:41 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
I bet C&D haters are going to trash Motor Trend now.

That's actually well deserved. 2013 was the Model S' year and 2014 and on could very well be as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
At least the CTS isn't a butt ugly car like the Eclass is.

I actually like the CTS especially the front. The rear isn't the greatest but this thing has been on fire with all the reviews lately.
I agree. The facelift E Class looks like such an amateur hackjob (IMO like a Chinese copy of what an E Class looked like) that the new CTS, who resembles the E a lot, looks like how the E should have looked. How sad (or impressive, for Cadillac) is that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
Not surprised by this at all and won't disagree with it.

Elon Musk is a brilliant guy who's trying to make a monumental change to the car industry- using a different energy source. He builds cars that many car enthusiasts like and is trying to solve the biggest issue that electric cars have: building a network of charging stations. His cars get an equivalent of a tank of gas to 1 charge. So for most people this means charging the car over night at worst, or for many- just charging it overnight once per week or less often than that.

BMW has an electric car, and so do many car manufacturers. If there's a network built in California and it functions well, it could expand to other parts of the country. Imagine if one's car could be charged rather quickly while grabbing a cup of coffee, or if the battery could be swapped out like a gas tank for a barbecue?

Yes, lots of imagination on my part. However, there's serious discussions going on.
Elon's already working that out (that guy thinks of everything ):



Quote:
Originally Posted by alewifebp View Post
I have a friend that has brought only Benzes the last 15 years or so on lease. He thought that the mid cycle refresh was a brand new E. I had to remind him that it was not.
I know. What a cheap move by Mercedes. This is a brand who's expected to build timeless cars who don't NEED to trick people into thinking a mere facelift is a new model. Talk about taking hype away from the next REAL redesigned E Class. BMW on the other hand look so much more talented, experienced in conjunction, considering they treated their F10 like the opposite of the E Class for their own LCI ("Why mess with perfection? We designed it just right the first time out").

Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
I know this is a BMW forum so I expect the bashing but let's be serious, that's not true. The E-class has been running on ~6 year generation cycles, the next gen would have to come out now in order for that to be true. The Benz insider forums have said nothing of the sort and you're completely going off heresay. The S-class was launched for the 2014, C-class for model year 2015, then the E-class will bow for model year 2016.

I personally don't find the nose unattractive in person all though I still think its ugly in pictures. Like I said, I understand the bias but there's no reason to act like the E-class is some sort of ruined, worthless vehicle.
It would actually be 2017 as M-B's always follow a 7 year cycle (except for the SL and maybe a couple others like the G Wagon who's been on like a 37 year life cycle).

I've had 3 straight E's before my F10, know them inside and out, drove a facelift extensively, and I could write a poem about how relatively worthless it is compared to the F10. Nothing it does better really, unless you really want to nitpick some functionality areas.
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  #140  
Old 11-08-2013, 06:10 AM
TangoRed TangoRed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
It would actually be 2017 as M-B's always follow a 7 year cycle (except for the SL and maybe a couple others like the G Wagon who's been on like a 37 year life cycle).

I've had 3 straight E's before my F10, know them inside and out, drove a facelift extensively, and I could write a poem about how relatively worthless it is compared to the F10. Nothing it does better really, unless you really want to nitpick some functionality areas.
I said "~6" to give me some wiggle room. Regardless what he said is definitely not true. I've already seen your exposÚs on other forums of the downfall of Mercedes, so no need to make any more poems. I wasn't claiming it did anything better than the F10 but like I said, it's not like the facelift W212 is a piece of trash. I understand why people like them-it's just the Camry of the luxury midsize class.
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  #141  
Old 11-08-2013, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by alewifebp View Post
I have a friend that has brought only Benzes the last 15 years or so on lease. He thought that the mid cycle refresh was a brand new E. I had to remind him that it was not.
That is kind of indicative of how much most Mercedes owners knows about cars. There are exceptions of course, but most Mercedes owners are like Toyota owners, they do not do their homework when buying cars and do not shop the competitions.
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  #142  
Old 11-08-2013, 10:12 AM
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Loved all my BMW's for 25 years up to the time I bought my 2012 Audi A6 Prestige. Got 313,000 miles out of my 1997 528i and 192,000 out of my 2005 545i. Great cars but as tough as it was to make the change away from BMW, I have no regrets. The A6 Audi does everything well. Got 30,000 trouble free miles on it. Prefer the styling to the BMW 5 and the super-charged engine in the 3 liter is very responsive and powerful with no lag at all. Interior also first class. The question is will it last as long as my previous BMW's. Only time will tell.
Nothing handles as my 545i sports sedan did with active steering but the Audi handles well enough and I have come to appreciate the softer ride. Best of all I did not have to get run-flats on the Audi. I have hit a couple of potholes recently on the Audi without busting-up the tire or rim which I always had a problem with on the 545i.
Best feature on the Audi are the LED HEADLIGHTS. Awesome. Love driving this car at night.
Let's be honest, they are both great cars and you can't go wrong with either but for my money the Audi overall edges out the Bimmer.

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  #143  
Old 11-08-2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
I understand why people like them-it's just the Camry of the luxury midsize class.
That's true, it's precisely that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
That is kind of indicative of how much most Mercedes owners knows about cars. There are exceptions of course, but most Mercedes owners are like Toyota owners, they do not do their homework when buying cars and do not shop the competitions.
That's also true. I can't even count how many times I've seen people on M-B boards and such literally admit that ("I don't think it looks great, I like the BMW/Audi/xx 5/A6/xx look more, I wish it had the tech of the BMW/Lexus/Audi/xx, I wish it had the features of the BMW/Audi/Lexus/xx", etc. but they follow it with something like "but I only buy Mercedes, always have and always will". It's interesting how UN-enthusiastic the base of the E Class is towards their own choice. Sure there are some outliers, but most are very clinical about how they feel about the car, which is a byproduct of how clinical the car itself is.
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  #144  
Old 11-09-2013, 03:50 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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That's ridiculous. If BMW really have a say in what cars to supply here, then either they TRULY give no crap about magazine article outcomes or have their head too far in the sand to know how to participate in these events to "win". By giving a magazine who already has it out for them, is practically trolling them in every issue, a 4WD with no SAT, no 704 i.e BASE suspension, no DHP at least, then they almost deserve to lose.

Too bad, even with C&D having an obvious bias against them, a RWD, 704 535i with SAT would have had a far different outcome. Get with it BMW, at least supply the right cars to these tests or simply don't participate at all.
Absolutely hilarious to call out CD as having it "out" or BMW. For years people were saying exactly the opposite, that CD was heavily biased towards BMW. The 3 series has been on the Ten Best list for over 2 decades. Blame BMW for softening their cars to appeal to a wider demographic and for providing the least sporty version for this test rather than some perceived anti-BMW bias.
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  #145  
Old 11-09-2013, 06:39 AM
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CD like most car magazines rate their car on mostly on performance, that makes for interesting reading but it may not be the priority of many car buyers. I know for a fact that performance is probably 2nd or 3rd on my priority list. I want some performance, but I do not want my car to ride like a E90. Demographic is another driving force in BMW's new direction, most buyers who can afford these cars are a bit older and wants a good handling car but not at the cost of ride comfort, there are plenty of exceptions in here of course The CTS is nice performance car, but I don't see it cracking the top 3 luxury sport sedan ever.
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  #146  
Old 11-09-2013, 07:47 AM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Absolutely hilarious to call out CD as having it "out" or BMW. For years people were saying exactly the opposite, that CD was heavily biased towards BMW. The 3 series has been on the Ten Best list for over 2 decades. Blame BMW for softening their cars to appeal to a wider demographic and for providing the least sporty version for this test rather than some perceived anti-BMW bias.
I concur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
That's ridiculous. If BMW really have a say in what cars to supply here, then either they TRULY give no crap about magazine article outcomes or have their head too far in the sand to know how to participate in these events to "win". By giving a magazine who already has it out for them, is practically trolling them in every issue, a 4WD with no SAT, no 704 i.e BASE suspension, no DHP at least, then they almost deserve to lose.

Too bad, even with C&D having an obvious bias against them, a RWD, 704 535i with SAT would have had a far different outcome. Get with it BMW, at least supply the right cars to these tests or simply don't participate at all.
Again, you cannot simply trash C&D just because BMW ranks last in comparo test. I'm a subscriber and I've read their December 2013 issue a week ago which shall appear on newsstands soon. There's no doubt BMW F it up. C&D puts it in writing : "Specifically, we asked for the face-lifted-for-2014, rear-drive 535i. That not being available, we accepted a four-wheel-drive 535i, powered by the 302-hp, turbocharged inline-six. "

Instead of trashing C&D, you all shall blame it on BMW press car department. Maybe a manger shall step in and deliver RWD 535i as requested?
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  #147  
Old 11-09-2013, 08:05 PM
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  #148  
Old 11-10-2013, 11:34 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
I bet C&D haters are going to trash Motor Trend now.
You and others need to stop with the stupid "butthurt", "haters", etc. comments. I sold my 535 and had a lengthy diatribe against it. I might buy another, but there are a lot of things BMW needs to improve upon before I do.

Having said that, there are clearly flaws in the C&D test, as I outlined above. I objectively drove the A6, E350 and 535 when I bought the 535, and for all it's flaws, the 535 was my choice. A few years later, I still stand by that.

I have no problem with the A6 placing first. And with no 704 or SAT, the BMW finishing down the order. But behind the E class....that is a joke.
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  #149  
Old 11-10-2013, 09:11 PM
kaysid kaysid is offline
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I have no problem with the A6 placing first. And with no 704 or SAT, the BMW finishing down the order. But behind the E class....that is a joke.
I think that nicely summarizes the majority view on the forum...
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  #150  
Old 11-10-2013, 09:14 PM
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jagu jagu is offline
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Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Mein Auto: 2013 535i M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
I test drive everything and right now there are only 2 car manufacturers that both serve my needs and impress me: BMW and Porsche. And with what's on the market today I wouldn't consider buying anything else.

However I always test drive Mercedes, Jaguar, Lexus and Audi just in case they come up with something interesting. Of these the biggest disappointment is Mercedes - I love the brand and I want to buy one but the product is just crap.
I think the SL series in AMG are great cars, that's about it..
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